Google is a virtual library. Google doesn't WRITE the sources; they merely STORE them.

They don't list much on "Gross Rear Wheel HP," though. Wonder why that is?

Imagine - those fools were paying big money for the aluminum head option on some of those old Chevy Big Blocks - THINKING they were getting MORE power and actually getting LESS!

 

Why don't you wear your assclown outfit? You MUST own one.

Wear that for the photo-shoot while standing next to a chassis dyno showing an "unaltered" 1969, 396 L78 Chevelle producing "335 RWHP."

:clown: :thefinger

 

No need. I'm not a Texas native - but have been here for 24 years.

I am curious how either one of you could possibly have any "hands on" experience with cars. You are on the Forum 24/7 (although I must say the 1le is way ahead in this department).

Carry on....

 

Click your heels Dorothy and wish yourself back to 2004, your trip to 1969 has affected your brain.... good night troll we're done.

 

The "350 HP" 396 could onlly produce 288 flywheel HP - on OPEN EXHAUST MANIFOLDS!

How much more (less?) could the "375 HP" version of the 396 have produced with MUFFLERS AND PIPES in place???

 

I have plenty of hands on experience and I own two hand built cars to prove it. One runs Super Pro and the other is in process of being finished tomorrow. As for being here 24/7, not even close. Sometimes when building a new server I spend a bit too much time here though, but it helps pass the time while working on tedious stuff. I guess I just find it funny that 1le will run a topic for what seems like forever and some people (me included sometimes) will get ourselves caught up in it knowing full well he is incapable of learning from or letting a topic go. He literally will continue until the end of time.

I could grow up a little and not get caught up in it....

 

Or you could learn the facts BEFORE opening your mouth. That way you wouldn't "get caught up in it" in the first place.

 

 

Dude, I drove the Ford Crown Vic for years. Biggest POS ever! Not mention you don't want to get rear ended in the thing or you might blow up in a ball of flames.

 

Your supposed "facts" are not based in reality, but based on how many links you have on a given subject, regardless of whether or not you understand the subject at hand.

 

hey guys,

STFU

And now a word from our sponsor.

 

Alrighty then..

 

I owned a 99 300M that I traded in for a 02 TL-S and other than exterior style and interior room, the 300m wasn't even close. The TL only had 10 HP more and less torque and was much more responsive and smoother compared to the 3.5 in the 300M. Another thing it had in common with my 04 TL is bad tires. The original Goodyears were crap. AS far as the new one being faster - maybe against the 04TL with the 5 speed Auto but Chrysler is reporting 6 sec. flat with the hemi vs 5.8 for a TL MT6. The TL will probably get 10 MPG better than the 300C too because Chrysler engines suck gas like you wouldn't believe. I personally think the Germans ruined the 300 with the new styling. If I wanted leftover Mercedes styling I'd buy it. The 300M had style- the new one looks like a brick. That said, I will probably have a Hemi is the coming year - A Ram 1500 Hemi. I figure if My V-8 Dakota only gets 14 mpg, I might as well get a Hemi for only a loss of another couple mpg and get the bigger truck.

 

it looks like a hot wheels car from the 60s

 

Really?

Name any topic in which you think that's the case.

 

Here we go again ...

 

The 300C and Magnum will appeal to a certain segment of the market place. The questions are how big is that market and will it be enough for these cars to succeed in purely business terms - dollars and cents. Who knows.

For certain the "domestics" (not that DCX is domestic any longer) have too much build capacity relative to their market share. So long as that remains they are going to be hurting.

The single biggest thing hurting DCX, Ford, and GM is their "why sell it when you can give it away" mentality. They're robbing from future sales to keep up their current market share. Many domestic buyers are getting severely upside down in their purchases - owing more than the vehicle is worth. And part of the reason the vehicles are losing value so fast is the "why sell it when you can give it away" programs. A vicious cycle, with a definite downward spiral to it.

This leaves their customers with little choice, either go deeper into debt to replace their vehicle or they have to hold on to it longer than they want to. They can only go so far in the first direction before reality sets in, and the other way is bad for the domestics sales long term.

Most people who get burned in this situation are going to look at resale values of cars like Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus against the domestics they purchased and the light bulb is going to come on. In many cases it probably already has and my suspicion is that is the underlying reason why sales of Honda/Toyota/Nissan are on the rise.

 

this is just silly. acting like little kids...

buy whatever you want, and crash it against a tree if you want too. we just don't care.

 

kosh2258,

You bring up some valid points, I used to own an SEL Taurus, a great car that never gave me problems, it was loaded and every 10 feet you saw one. That sucker had probably the worst resale value of any car I've ever owned. Even so, it was still a very reliable decent car.

Looking back I knew at the time of purchase that resale would suck but didn't worry too much because I believed I was going to keep it a very long time. Which of course I didn't..... Such is life.

The new 300C is a gamble by Chrysler I think, we'll see how it pans out.

 

chrysler sucks so who cares what they do with recycled badly styled mercedes leftovers?

 

Wow, this thread brings out the worst in people. Chrysler may not be our cup of tea but they are worth discussing when they come out with a new product that may help turn them around if excecuted properly.

 

And I had a TAURUS SHO ('95, purchased new). Essentially EVERYTHING broke. It was the biggest piece of crap I've ever owned.

My mother had a Sable with the 3.8 in it. It blew 2 head gaskets in 40K miles. That was at the top of a long list of failures.

Statistically significant studies (with large groups of people) demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that Ford builds crap.

 

I personally don't like the styling of the Chrysler 300 either. I am really disappointed that the 300M is being disconitinued, since I like the styling of the 'M' much better.

Prior to me getting my '04 TL, I had a 2002 Chrysler 300M. It was one of the best cars I ever owned. The only reason I traded it in (besides the fact the new TL really awed me!!) was that I need something smaller, with somewhat better fuel economy. In the two years I owned my 300M I never had any problems. It was a really comfortable, reliable, and good looking car. If you recall C&D named the 300M one of their 10 Best for 1999 and 2000. Then it became fodder for all those fickle automotive critics, and sales have been dropping ever since (too bad - it is one of the best cars Chrysler ever built).

I have only owned 3 Japanese cars in the the past 20 years (my '04 TL is the third). The rest have been domestics - mostly Chryslers (Gasp!!!) all of which provided me years of trouble free and reliable service. Out of all these vehicles, the best American car I ever owned was my '96 Eagle Vision TSi. This car was awesome, and really unique given there were so few on the road. In 85K miles I never had any trouble other than routine maintenance. I traded it for my '01 TL, simply because I was ready for something different after 5 years.

As for those of you that diss American cars, I really don't think that all the hype and criticism is justified, especially now. The original 'Big 3 are building some awesome products, and I wouldn't hestitate to consider an American car (especially Chrysler) the next time around.

Regards,

 

Your Eagle Vision was actually a rebadged Mitsubishi Eclipse, designed in Japan and assembled in IL from mostly Japanese parts. Your TL was designed in CA and built in OH from 75% American parts. Big 3 or not, Chrysler's strings are pulled from Germany these days. Small world, isn't it?

 

UminChu,

Actually, you don't have your facts straight. The Eagle Vision was one of Chrysler's LH cars. The other two in that series were the Dodge Intrepid, and the Chrysler Concorde. All three of these cars were designed in the U.S. and built in Canada.

You are thinking of the Eagle Talon. This was indeed a rebadged Mitsubishi Eclipse, which was jointly designed by Chrysler and Mitsubishi, and built in Normal, IL by Diamond Star Motors, which is a 50/50 joint venture by Mitsubishi and Chrysler.

By the way, I also owned a 91 Eagle Talon, it was an awesome car as well - kind of like a 'poor mans' Mitsubishi 3000 (also the same as the Dodge Stealth!)

Regards,

 

Oops, I goofed. A rebadged Eclipse was sold by Chrysler as an Eagle Talon (my bad). They sold it with Plymouth badging also. The Eagle Vision was a rebadged Renault model, designed and built in France. Smaller world still. Sorry for the bad info.

 

Yep you're right, you got your post in forst before I could retract. Wasn't the earliest model Vision a Renault product?

 

UminChu,

Uh, I hate to break it to you, but the rebadged Renault your are referring to was the Eagle Medallion, followed by the Eagle Premier. Both of these vehicles were originally joint ventures between American Motors (acquired by Chrysler in 1987), and Renault.

The Eagle Vision was a Chrysler designed vehicle whose siblings were the Dodge Intrepid and Chyrsler Concorde.

Nice try!!

Regards,

 

Yep, you're right again, I was being lazy and not looking it up first. Sorry about posting in error, and thanks for getting me straight on that. I should quit while I'm behind.

 

No. The Eagle Vision was the first Chrysler designed vehicle since the demise of the Premier and Medallion. The Jeep/Eagle division was formed by Lee Iacocca when Chrysler acquired AMC in 1987. The first Eagle products to be sold by the new division were the AMC/Renault leftovers - the Medallion and the Premier.

Also, another interesting tidbit, the Dodge Division of Chrysler came out with a rebadged Eagle Premier - the Dodge Monaco around 1989. It did not sell vey well and was dropped a couple of years later.

Regards,

 

Not a problem, man!.

This forum is for open and vigorous discussion, right?

 

Ok, so, every GM product I've ever owned were piles of crap... studies don't paint them in a good light either but since you own one you ignore this and point at Ford. Don't buy Ford then what else can I say, don't buy them, tell all your freinds how crappy they are. The next time I'm in the market I'll be looking at them because they have treated me right and every one of them I've owned has been fine...

Each person has different experiences, but per you this doesn't matter so..... Now maybe we can reutrn to the topic at hand since it is obvious you think Ford is crap and I think GM is crap, ok?

 

Another little bit of history- the 300m was originally going to be an Eagle Vision replacement before Chrysler killed Eagle. Then they rebadged it as a Chrysler. I loved the styling of that car - especially the rear and the white/Indiglo gauges were very nice too. The 300C does nothing for me though and I don't know what DCX was thinking when they replaced the Dodge Intrepid with a station wagon!!!! Dodge Dealers are up in arms about that. That's why they're coming out with a new Dodge Charger a year later to appease the dealers. Chrysler used to be a leader in design before the Germans got their hands on it and now they've reduced it to a dumping ground for leftover Mercedes parts.

 

EVERY American car is "crap" compared to the better Asian makes!

But the prospect of replacing a new TL with a FORD, due to "quality issues," is silly.

 

I don't agree.... 20 years ago maybe most of them were. Are you saying your Camaro is CRAP? Must be, compared to the Asian makes...

Not if every car I've owned made by Ford has been better than my TL it isn't silly. I'm not going to continue buying Acura in hopes that at some point they get it right. Granted this is a first year car design, time will tell how the car holds up. If it does, great, if it doesn't there will be a Ford in my driveway next time, you think that's silly, you're entitled, but then your opinion doesn't matter in the scheme of things.

 

Independent studies still show large margins in quality/long term durability between American and Asian makes.

That is FACT.

Whether or not YOU "agree" isn't relevent.

http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/transpor...xus_tops_auto/

 

How nice, so get rid of that Camaro, studies show it won't hold up long term and God knows it won't be worth anything. My Chevelle has made it 35 years, is worth 8 times what it cost new, if I see a 2004 TL running around in 35 years I'll come back and agree with you. Heck if I see a Camaro like yours running around in 35 years that would be something.

American cars are built MUCH better than they were 20 years ago, FACT. If they are such piles of crap you wouldn't have bought that Camaro you brag about so much.

I wasn't asking it to be relevent to anybody but me.

 

Asian cars are built MUCH BETTER than they were 20 years ago, too.

 

Of course, some are.

 

Virtually ALL OF THEM are.

Didn't you read that study I just posted?

http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/transpor...xus_tops_auto/

AND:

I thought I'd already explained to you that I INTENTIONALLY ordered a low content car (1LE Z28) in an attempt to skirt the quality issue of American cars....

And it worked - for the MOST part. The car did require a new pinion seal, a new instrument cluster, a new catalytic converter assembly, a new coolant level sensor and a new AC line/recharge after the fan sliced the old one due to poor location - ALL within the first 20K miles.

The interior looks like it was molded by Rubbermaid and the seats were SO horrible that I IMMEDIATELY replaced the driver's seat with a $500 Recaro seat.

BUT - I EXPECTED those types of issues before ordering the car! And I was WILLING TO LIVE WITH THEM because I got ~ 340 SAE NET HP, Koni shocks, a TORSEN DIFF, a 6 speed manual, nice brakes and a VERY stable platform for $21,300.

There wasn't an Asian car built at that time that could even TOUCH that kind of performance for the money.