"""Was a few days go at a U-pull in Mn. I own one F250 LD 99 and need muffler so I looked under trucks of my generation and newer up to 2010. Out of every 5 trucks at junkyard 2004-2010 3 were there because of rusted and broken frame and other 2 had such a bad frame that I would never buy it. You have an O frame and my truck has a C frame. I laugh at your trucks. Here is my tread about rust fighting https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-compound.html .
I'm not laughing at you, I wish you would have better trucks. Laughing at O frame."""
This above was what I posted at Ford forum https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...rs-trucks.html .
My 2G TL went to the junkyard because of the rusted subframe. How do all manufacturers NOT understand that they need to hot deep galvanize frames and subframes at cars and pickups? Acura TL 3G is the first car that I own with galvanized subframe. As I figured out after owning 4-5 cars in life how thousands of engineers do not see it?

 

It's not galvanized, the entire subframe is aluminum alloy.

 

^^^ Thanks for letting me know. So need not put Fluid Film in. Edit, I do jump over word alloy. Alloy with what? Maybe I need to pull out FF gun actually. The good news is that my TL comes from California and does not have much rust.
"i noticed that my 07 tl-s subframe is silver and that other hondas and some acuras i see are black colored.
this leads me to the assumption that the acura tl has a different material front subframe than Hondas."
Look like even Hondas of this years are not aluminum alloy. When will f manufacturer learn. Even expensive Mercedes and BMW are e-coated. Rusted frame is what sends all pickup trucks to junkyards, nothing else.

 

Checked and frames of 04-06 are painted. Holy cow. 08 had improved tranny and aluminum alloy subframe. Exactly 2 things that I would ask for. Tbh when I was looking for TL at auction I did look for 07-08 because of better tranny. My 03 went to junkyard because tranny and frame broke at same time early this year. Tranny went out and frame broke in one week or so when I was limp driving 03 to bar and back 1 block away.

 

Galvanizing typically does not offer anywhere near the same protection as E-Coat. E-coat is an organic coating which by definition won't conduct electricity. Zinc is metal.

Nothing steel holds up long term to salt exposure, however. Even most grades of SS will eventually corrode through.

Anodoized alloys of aluminum hold up much better. But they're also susceptible to eventually pitting from all the chloride they use on the road.

You need to keep up with some sort of external coating to preserve any car.

 

^^^ https://www.finishing.com/398/19.sht...e%20in%20seams.
Here --------------- Galvanizing forms a metallurgical bond between the zinc and the underlying steel or iron, creating a barrier that is part of the metal itself. During galvanizing, the molten zinc reacts with the iron in the steel to form a series of zinciron alloy layers. Figure 5 is a photomicrograph of a typical galvanized coating microstructure consisting of three alloy layers and a layer of pure metallic zinc. The galvanized coating is tightly bonded to the underlying steel, at approximately 3,600 pounds per square inch (psi). Other coatings typically offer bond strengths of 300- 600 psi, at best. --------------- from galvanizait.org
-------------The coating which is obtained by hot-dip galvanization is characterized by much better resistance to mechanical damages. This coating is 8 times better than epoxy coatings, and even 20 better than PVC coatings and epoxy powder coatings. The advantage of hot-dip galvanization is that it does not make room for any doubts in terms of the quality, since zinc coatings cannot be executed on poorly cleaned steel surface, which is feasible in case of painting.------------------

HDG is 8 times stronger than epoxy paint and up to 20 times than other regular paints.

 

E-coat != paint

 

I have galvanized gutters on my house.

 

Yes, galvanizing has a stronger bond, but less corrosion resistance than organic coatings.

Galvanizing and zinc works really well on bolts/nuts.

BUT...what rusts first? Nuts and bolts? Or E-coated subframes and coated/painted body panels?

 

Idk if anyone's gonna read this essay, but here goes anyway....

There's a whole lot of different steel coatings that all exist because they have specific advantages and disadvantages. If one was "best at everything", the others would not exist.

Zinc plating or galvanizing is heat tolerant to ~800F, is very thin, and very hard. Makes it great for plating steel bolts/nuts/screws, heat shields, etc. But since zinc is a metal, it will, itself oxidize. Its a sacrificial coating. The zinc oxidizes and falls away in order to protect the steel. But when the zinc is gone (it doesn't take long because its just a few microns thick), the steel becomes the next thing to oxidize

E-coat is better with corrosion protection because it is NOT a sacrificial layer. Its organic, so it doesn't corrode. It does, however, chip over time. Its also too soft to use as a coating on bolts. Its plastic, after all.

Today's vehicle frames/bodies are not galvanized. They're fully dipped in A-coat or E-coat before paint. They rust much slower than older cars that are galvanized. Because A/E-coat is better at fighting rust.

Successful coating of any kind relies on a very specific process. But no process is perfect. Which means no coating system is perfect. So the water/salt is gonna find a pinhole or imperfection somehow, and start attacking the metal. Car manufacturers obviously have some of the best processes in the world. Which is why cars last so long now.

There's a bunch of coatings beyond A/E-coat or zinc. Again, they all have advantages/disadvantages.

 

^^^ Do not make me going to finishing.com and ask dr of chemistry there what is better. Or can go to hotrodders.com . First time I hear someone call something better than HDG. And Plating is not same as hot deep galvanizing, not even close.

 

Hello, Donald. Galvanizing involves the application of a heavy layer of zinc, which is a material which corrodes sacrificially to the underlying steel. So galvanizing is what we call a sacrificial coating. E-coating is an organic coating, rather similar to paint but with the advantage of full coverage in seams. Such coatings work by sealing the part away from the environment, and are sometimes called barrier layer coatings.

As a very general rule, and one person's opinion, galvanizing is preferable in rough service because even if the finish is scratched the protection remains as long as there is zinc left on the item. In lighter service, an organic coating may be preferable not only for economy but because it doesn't corrode and can therefore last longer.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...inions-24.html #356 . If is e coat better than HDG why ford is offering on commercial trucks galvanized frame?

 

Maybe for some kind of specific service like a truck that is going to be used in an environment where they are not worried about salt or corrosive liquid exposure?

Key word is offering.
As in you can opt for it if your situation suits.

So Idk. Why do they? See if you can find out.



Your boy said all the same things I did, BTW.

I know I know. I'm still wrong somehow lol


Lastly, if galvanizing is so much better than E-Coat at preventing rust, then how come all the manufacturers use E-coat instead?

Check before you answer! Don't guess! I might know a few things....

 

^^^ Price. Galvanizing is much more expensive than e-coat. I learned 15 years go when roamed finishing.com that HDG is king. Will google "galvanizing vs e-coat" but ecoat do not stand a chance. Ask dr, academics and Nobel price winners from finishing.com.. Another thing is manufacturers do not want yours car or truck to last forever and it would happen if would frame be galvanized. Bro you do not know that galvanizing and plating are not same and want discuss with me a doctor of rust fighting, without formal degree.

 

Sounds good. Thanks for the discussion.

 

^^^ If you find somewhere at internet that someone pro claim e-coat is more resistant than HDG please put link here. I offered that comment in #12 from finishing.com.. Will be first to agree with you if see somewhere at internet proof of yours claim and didn't see so far.

 

You're not reading my posts or even the posts YOU post.

Read this a little more carefully. Then read what I originally posted.

You just found internet evidence to support my claim.

Here, I even highlighted some important parts for you.

Protection from zinc only lasts as long as there is zinc remaining. If all the zinc is gone from salt or acid exposure...guess what is also gone? The protection.

Until a couple days ago, you thought your car had a galvanized subframe, doctor.

You *guessed* why they E-coat instead of galvanizing. You also assumed (not sure why) that I thought galvanizing is the same as plating.

You're convinced of something already you're assuming things as fact in order to support your thoughts.

There's plenty of info out there on google. You just need to read and understand the information that's available.

You can research (like real doctors do). If you are interested, read up on how cars have become more rust resistant since E-coating became dialed in ~Y2K or so. Porsche had a hot dip galvanizing line since the 70's. But they re-tooled to switch to E-coat. Why?

Again, don't guess, doctor. Check.

Another peice of important evidence is that you are still driving a 20ish year old E-coated while making claims that it "was made not to last".

 

^^^ I'm driving it because I was spraying it two time per year, since 2009 when I bough it, with cold galvanizing and last 3 years with Cosmoline/Lanoline combo. Here is my tread where I express my doctorate in corrosion engineering https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-compound.html .
I google little already and there is said that hot dip galvanized coating last 20-50 years. We will see what will show about how long e-coat last.
"As a very general rule, and one person's opinion, galvanizing is preferable in rough service because even if the finish is scratched the protection remains as long as there is zinc left on the item."

 

My friend, cold galvanizing paint, lanolin, and cosmoline are all organic coatings.

You have been applying an organic coating to prevent metal from corroding

I wonder where I've heard of that recommendation before....?

 

Obviously I can not apply hot dip galvanizing at existing car. It was only way. Cold galvanizing paint mostly fail, I figured it after 10 years of srpaying. For me HDG is king. Not only for me, folks at finishing.com to, and hotrooders.com.. We dr of corrosion like HDG.

 

Lot of hotrodders using their cars to drive in salt covered roads then?

 

Men I felt entire day yesterday like a doctor of corrosion engineering. I do not concentrate only on protection of undercarriage. I'm experimenting with Anti seize for bolts, dielectric grease for electric connectors etc..