Thanks for the input, just to clarify...I have not and will not be performing any sort of work on the car myself.
The reason I am hesitant in taking the car back to the tech to have them inspect the noise and fix it is for a few reasons:
1. the shop will charge for the inspection time (I know they probably shouldn't since the noise was not there prior to them working on the car, but I definitely know they will try). I will try to have the conversation prior to driving out to them
2. the car is going to be immaculate and I do not want it anywhere near a shop. Its undergoing a fresh wet sanding and paint correction (again) and ceramic coating. So I really don't want it in a shop since there is a high chance of scratches being induced.

Big thank you to @Bars, I will definitely look into this.

 

Yeah, I hate taking my car anywhere for work

 

My 5Speed Accord was doing the same thing for Two years. I always had to be double clutching, not granny shifting like I should.

Changed the engine(52k miles), clutch/flywheel, master/slave cylinder this week, the problem is completely gone.
Shifts are smooth as butter.

If I pressed in the clutch and held it a second and changed gears, it would grind. Had to be Johnny on the Spot with the double clutch and quick shift.

This happened over time. No hydraulic fluid leak, no leak from the master/slave cylinder. I think there was an internal leak on the slave or master cylinder. It wouldn’t leak out of the hydraulic system, but I believe the seal in the master cylinder was seeping fluid past when the clutch was applied.

It seems the issue was the metal rod coming out of the master cylinder that connects to the clutch pedal was pressed in too far. This kept the master cylinder not being completely sealed while Operating the car. Leading to premature wear of the master cylinder.

first thing: check that the master cylinder rod going to the clutch pedal is in the neutral position.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yQO9mQ...anVzdG1lbnQ%3D


I matched up the rod length to the old clutch master cylinder and the rod was half way engaged. Couldn’t even bleed the air until the rod was adjusted.

Hope this helps as it was tough to drive my lovely Accord.

 

a leak inside the master is still considered a leak.

 

A quick update regarding the squealing noise...
Took the car back to the shop which performed the clutch replacement and had it sit overnight.
Shop called me the next morning and told me it was indeed the throw-out bearing which was causing the noise. I had sent them the video posted above, but they needed to verify it themselves prior to covering anything under warranty.
So their supplier is sending a brand new kit to them, which means they will be re-installing a brand new clutch/flywheel and bearings and covering all labor involved.
The issue with the LUK throw-out bearing was that the lubrication grease used was too thick, which attributed to it not spinning freely, and once heated up the grease/lube would thin out and noise would dissipate. (according to the shop).

In either case, I am glad they are covering the costs associated. My question now is which throw-out bearing should I purchase? I told the shop I would supply the bearing for peace of mind on my end. They should've checked all the parts prior to install, so I've made a mention of that to them for the 2nd go around

 

OEM is the only throw out bearing I would use, either you supply the bearing or have them order one from local Acura/Honda dealer.

 

part number I found online for the throw-out bearing is

22810-PPT-003

can anyone confirm this is indeed the correct part.

TIA

 

Yup that is the correct part number.

 

Another update about this whole ordeal.
So car went back to the shop to get a new OEM bearing put in.
Since the car had just been worked on, the shop was going to cover all labor costs and the parts were warrantied through their supplier.
As the supplier sent over a brand new clutch kit, the shop was going to do the whole job over again.....because why not?

I get a call two days ago.....owner of the shop tells me that the tech accidentally installed the clutch disc wrong and it caused damage to a flange (no idea what this is)
Owner was saying if they were unable to get a new flange, then they would have to source a new transmission.
The flange is still available but has to be ordered by the dealer. So waiting on the ETA on that.

The shops going to re-open tom so I will be calling to get some more information as to what exactly happened.
Its a very reputable shop, and i've used them several times in the past. The accidental mis-install was just a fluke, as the same tech had done the original clutch job without any issues.
My main concern now is did they complete the clutch job, then go to start the car and then realize it was done incorrectly?
I don't know what kind of damage a backwards installed clutch disc could do if the vehicle was started......

I appreciate all input as you guys have really helped with the process

 

Further to the above.
They damaged the bell housing of the transmission, so now they are sourcing an 08 MT transmission from an accord. (lower kms, but I'm pretty pissed because my car has been babied its entire life and I don't know what condition this sourced tranny will be in internally)

I'm doing some research online and finding some information regarding what to look out for in terms of the accord transmission.
1st: make sure its BAYA stamped
2nd. I lose the LSD by installing an accord tranmission.

I will continue researching, but I would like to get as much info as possible before the transmission shows up at the shop tom.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Whoa hang on. They damaged the trans? Could the possible rebuild the transmission using the LSD from the TL trans and the good parts of the Accord trans? I would want to retain it if I could.

 

Yeah...losing the LSD is a huge deal.

Why are you saying OK to this?

Accord trans? Is it even geared the same? Are the internals the same? Probably not.

They need to buy a replacement for what they damaged from Honda and swap your existing trans' guts into it.

What does he mean he installed the clutch backwards? How? None of it makes any sense. Ask for more details and photos of what got damaged. They should try and source new parts from Honda to replace what they damaged. Ask for your old parts back also.

There is a VIN tag on your current trans, BTW. If they replace the case, you will lose that "numbers matching" part of the car.

I would have them stop and give you details. Make an informed decision. All the trouble you've had up to this point has stemmed from them driving the decisions.

 

Thanks for the responses.
@Ltfa182 yes they damaged the some parts of the transmission. This is the text I got...."he accidentally installed the clutch disc the wrong way which caused damage to the flange on the bell housing".
Originally they had told me they were contacting Acura/Honda to source a new clutch housing. When I called back yesterday, they told me that they had ordered a new transmission, sourced from an 08 accord.

@BROlando I have not agreed to this or given them the ok. In fact, I've told to hold off performing any work until I make a decision. Them ordering the transmission was done without consulting me, so Im waiting for a call back from the owner of the shop. I agree with everything you said, I have asked for details and photos of what was damaged and a better explanation. I also agree that they should be sourcing the parts they damaged and fixing them.

All the information I've come across is that the autos av6 transmissions are geared the same, but the manuals have a different final drive?( Im not mechanically savvy to even know what this means). Majority of the information is about auto transmission swaps. So just trying to learn as much as possible.

Game plan is:
1. get them to first provide a better explanation as to what happened, prior to working on the car any further. With a detailed write up and pics

2. get them to source parts instead of putting in a used transmission

3. warranty all the work for a substantial period of time.

 

Ok...from what you're relaying; the tech somehow forced the pressure plate to bolt up to a disc that was installed backwards. Not an easy feat...holy mother....

The pressure plate never seated on the flywheel and ended up gouging the clutch housing.

That's probably all the noise you were hearing. I'm massively surprised the clutch system worked at all.

Heads up...the flywheel may also be damaged. The hub of the clutch disc was likely rubbing into it.

The clutch is definitely ruined by all this...so glad you're getting a new one.

I assume you need a new clutch housing. Which should still be available at Honda. I would be leary of this particular shop taking your trans apart to swap housings. But...your car's there now, I suppose.

This sucks man. Sorry you're having such a bad time with all this.

The shop will try to do what's easiest and best for them. So make sure you counter that by putting yourself first, every step of the way. Pay really close attention to everything they're proposing and make sure it doesn't compromise what you want.

A suggestion like, "we're just gonna toss a used 08 Accord trans in it" would get a very strong reaction from me. Wtf kind of solution is that?

 

Yea I just got off the phone with the owner and explained to him that I was not ok with them simply swapping the accord transmission in.

Just to be clear, the noises mentioned earlier in this thread were due to a bad throwout bearing. The car is there for a second time for the clutch job because their supplier sent them a brand new clutch kit and I sourced an OEM throwout bearing. So the noises prior did not have anything to do with the clutch disc being installed incorrectly. I did not hear the startup after the disc was installed incorrectly because it was at their shop still and they obviously couldn't get it to drive.

I will ask them to get a 3rd clutch kit now, thanks to your information about how the other components may be damaged.

The owner said all his information he's gotten states the accord transmission is the same as the TLs. I told him I'm pretty sure it's geared differently and has a different final drive number. He wants concrete evidence of this.

I told him even if I could not find concrete evidence, I did not want them just using a av6 transmission to remedy this problem. He said the other option would be to swap over the clutch housing from the accord transmission as it's the same as the TL. From my quick research it does appear to be the same housing. Part number is 21000-rde-305.

For any members on here, is there anything concrete I could send to the owner showing that the transmissions are different?

Owner also said the TL doesn't have a true LSD. I told him from everything I've been told, it does have an LSD and the accords do not, and I would not be ok with losing that functionality

 

Lol...does not have a true LSD? Idk what he means. Its nonsense.

Concrete evidence the AV6 and TLS trans are not the same? Easy. The part numbers for the transmission assy's are different.

The final drive part numbers can be found to be different as well.

To explain final drive....

A final drive gear is the gear that's in the differential.

Its a big reduction gear that all the gears feed power into.

Each gear (1 thru 6 and reverse) has some ratio.
Let's make up numbers to make it more clear.

Let's say 2nd gear has a ratio of 2:1.

Means that if you engage 2nd gear....when your engine rotates twice, the output shaft rotates 1 time.

This multiplies the torque from your engine. 100LB-FT turns into 200LB-FT. 300 turns into 600.

That's still not enough to robustly move a car.

So....you use a final drive gear. Let's say that ratio is 4:1.

Now you're multiplying 2nd gear's output torque again by 4X. So 100LB-FT at the flywheel turns into 200LB-FT after 2nd gear. Which turns into 800LB-FT after the FD. and you have enough torque to accelerate quickly.

Sidebar...this is why you don't do dyno runs in 1st or 2nd gear. Wheel torque would be in the thousands.

A final drive of 4:1 affects all gears the same way. It will reduce ANY gear's output rotation by 4X. And will multiply ANY gear's torque by 4X.

If you reduce the final drive ratio and make it 3:1, you will reduce wheel torque. You will reduce acceleration. But you will increase top speed and reduce crusing RPM at any speed, in any gear.

Performance oriented cars often use a larger FD reduction (4:1 in our example) to help with acceleration.

Comfort and economy oriented cars will use a smaller FD reduction (3:1 in our example) to reduce cruising RPM at the cost of performance.

A FD change also affects speedometer and odometer readings.

 

Thanks for that information @BROlando !

I got some clarification from the shop. Appears there was some miscommunication from them. So they had originally planned on purchasing a new clutch housing direct from dealer, but the eta was August.

So instead of waiting such a long time, they decided to source the transmission from the av6 and the plan all along was to change the clutch housing as it's the same part on both transmissions.

This is what I'm hearing now, not sure how such a miscommunication happens....

I've asked for that detailed write up before giving them any decision.
With a used clutch housing, I'll be asking for a warranty, they will most likely only offer 1 year max. I will also see if there is a better eta available from other dealers regarding a new clutch housing.

Will post their detailed explanation here. Thanks again. Very appreciative

 

I can see why they did what they did. I used to work at a shop so I know how looking for outdated parts goes. Sometimes you wait months or you have to find another solution. I did come across some threads asking this same thing about a TLS with an AV6 Transmission. Apparently it is possible (can't find the link at the moment) but I read a response from an owner who actually made the swap. They likely won't sink anymore money into it unless they can prove the parts on there are damaged. So I mean, while they have it apart they should at least double check to make sure your flywheel and other parts are good to go before they just put it back in there. But wait, when they say "housing" do they mean like they are just swapping that part and using the rest of your existing trans? If so, I guess I'd be cool with it. I wouldnt want to wait until August lol

 

Yeah it makes sense to me as well, especially given the timeframe they were looking at for getting the parts in stock.
They will be replacing the entire clutch again - so fly wheel will be replaced.
And as far as I gather, they will be replacing the clutch case assembly/housing. I was able to find a dealer, which I've used in the past, that can supply the assembly/housing by months end.
Its much cheaper than what the shop paid for the av6 transmission as well, so they were ok with placing an order through that dealer. So instead of the used assembly from the av6 transmission, I should be getting that new one (have to confirm once they actually place an order).
In addition to the new housing, they will be replacing all clutch components.
I am still waiting for the tech's detailed write up.......

I will update my build thread once this is all said and done, its quite the story of what my car has been through since February of this year..

 

Here is the writeup/explanation from the shop. Not as detailed as I was expecting, but I did get some pics along with it. Wondering what you guys think could also be damaged so I can ask for it to be replaced?

Upon starting vehicle after new throw out bearing installed, vehicle would not go into gear. Removed transmission and inspect. Upon installation of new clutch throw out bearing, disc installed incorrectly. Aluminum sleeve the throw bearing sits on damaged and is part of the bell housing. Requires new bell housing.

Since they tried to put the vehicle in gear, would there be any possible damage to the internals of the transmission?

 

The part that got damaged (release bearing guide) makes total sense.

And yeah, since that's built into the housing, you need a new clutch housing.

The gears wouldn't experience any damage from that.

Just the clutch disc, pressure plate, and (obviously) release bearing guide for sure...and possibly flywheel.

Pro tip...when you get your new housing, see if you can get a hold of Honda High Temp Urea grease to lubricate the release bearing guide's surface and the clutch splines. If they use regular "bearing grease"...it won't last too long. If they use anti seize, you'll damage that surface pretty quickly.

 

Thanks again @BROlando . I will be sure to mention this to the shop. I'm swinging by on Saturday to check-in with them in person

 

When I had a squeeky master on my OG TL...
the ONLY thing that made it go away forever was the Honda HTUG.

 

Its good stuff...just can be hard to get at the moment. Lucas Xtra HD *seems* to be a good substitute.

 

I would say the internal gear are safe. the housing def need to be replace.