TL_6SPD

That is the onyl reason the 04 TL got included. It took Acura this long to do any recall. It is not Acura taking care of it quick as you thought.

rets

I may cut it off and leave the link only...






Why cannot you just quote the outline with the link? :o

1SICKLEX

My bad. Being a mod elsewhere, people tend to be lazy and not click links.

rets

I know who you are and what you said... but this pasted post was kind of terribly protracted and ppl couldn't be well-informed by this format.

Donte99TL

I hate it when they say "can occur under certain driving conditions." Yaaaaa Soooo what are those driving conditions so I don't do them?

Oh well shit happens. I have the extend warrenty and I know I will sell my car before I hit 100,000 anyways.

TBone2004

Why am I just finding out about my 2002 TL tho? I mean, it was nice of them to not only include my '04, but the gesture of including my '02 was very thoughtful - why so late tho - got a lot of mileage on that one. Why is this just coming out now - covering so many year models? It is not a new problem then for '04's, but it took this long to launch the recall.? Whatever.

haris3344

I purchased my 04 TL in the first week of Janauary. The transmission failed in March when I had almost 1500 miles on the car. Acura replaced the transmission with a brand new transmission. Last week (at 5100 miles), Acura replaced all 4 tires as the car was pulling to the left constantly.

No other problems so far. Will keep you guys posted.

Jss1

I called Acura Canada and they explained it very well imo, worth a call. In a nutshell if your mileage is under 24k km no excessive gear wear nor any metal problems will occur, and they install an oil pump. If over 24k km the transmission is pulled and a new one is installed (new meaning rebuilt as in transmission case with all new internal parts). The transmission is sent for inspection.

The problem is mainly for heavier suv's like the MDX and Odyssey but since the specs for the TL transmission are based on the MDX's they don't want to take any chances.

Note the problem occurs at highway speeds with heavy loads and constant hard braking and appears after 24km. This can cause a lack of oil in 3rd gear, mainly in the MDX and Odyssey.

They will send out notices later this summer and are staggering it so they make sure the parts are available.

You can call and they will tell you if you are affected.

Sherlock

gee.. and here I s(h)it with a vin 259.. yes.. I'm affected. my WHOLE CAR is infected.. err.. affected. I'm going to call ACS back and tell them to add this to the entire list of crap they can take the Lemon back for.

Sherlock

i just called ACS, they told me that I am affected and that there have been no cases occured under 60,000 miles. Letters are going out.. if you are having tranny problems or your MIL comes on, that's the only way you can get in before your letter arrives.

*sigh*

lsbuffs

I had an appointment to have my windshield replaced on Tuesday July 6th. (Stress crack...warranty item). Anyway, I asked if I could have the recall addressed at that time. My VIN is in the 30XX range and my mileage is 14,955.

They indicated that they'll run my VIN but that the recall wasn't yet input into their computers and until that time, they couldn't do the work without Acura charging back the dealer. It doesn't sound like the dealers have the parts or info. available to get this going quite yet.

I'll update again after my visit next Tuesday.

Lore

That's my understanding as well - my dealer told me they are aware of the recall, but without the letter they won't service any cars unless there is another problem.

How did you get your dealer to replace your windshield for you? A stress crack vs. a rock crack is very hard to prove. Did they examine your car's window from top to bottom?

lsbuffs

Regarding the stress crack....they looked and looked but neither the service advisor nor the service manager could find an impact point. Of course, I kept explaining there wasn't one...regardless, they kept following the crack by inserting a ballpoint pen and tracing its length. I suppose this was done to try and feel for some type of impact point that wasn't obvious from a visual inspection.

Once this analysis was complete, there wasn't any hassle. They said they'd order the windshield and I could come back in about 10 days. It is an OEM windshield, with the soundproofing and other details present in the current one. They'll have a glass company come out to the dealership to install.

rets

This recall is so new, lots of dealers still do not receive the enough/detailed instrudtion how to or what to do. Some dealers are willing to take your early appointment and others insist you have to wait for your recall letter from Acura.

rets

Jss1, thanks for the details. If this rule applies to everyone, I can see my 04TL MAY get the new/rebuild/refurbished tranny at the time I get into the dealer. My dealer refused to check my car until my letter arrives...

J RIDE 81

Can someone please answer this please. This is only for the earlier builds. Their is no recall on the vins that end with 4xxxx. If some can let me know I would highly appreciate. I called the dealer and they told me their are no recalls with my car and everything was repaired before the purchase. I would like a solid answer though. Thanks in advance.

rets

So far, based on the info we all know, there is apparantly no recall for your car.

I'd suggest you'd better to call ACS, 800-382-2238, to get the final confirmation. Just pick up the phone and dial.











Can ppl check this out? http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85976 Thank You.

StatGuy

I followed the entire post stream and haven't seen that anyone has posted what shows up in OwnerLink. My '04 has a VIN in 0017xxx range and apparently isn't affected. I also checked my wife's '02 and found the following recall note which was posted in the RECALL section for the '02. If you read through the whole thing in the last paragraph you'll see that there are apparently 2 different fixes. One for newly manufactured cars and a second for those updated at the dealer. There have been questions about why only AT's with VIN's before14224 were affected. I speculate that the new modified AT's came out at that point. Also some have wanted to know what conditions are prone to cause the problem ... that is also addressed in this recall note.

BTW, check the date. Also in the body of the write up it states that mailings started going out in early May. I don't recall receiving one for our '02.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 26, 2004

Recall Campaign: Automatic Transmission Second Gear Inspection

Dear Acura Owner:


Your vehicle is affected by the automatic transmission recall that was recently announced.

What is the problem?
Certain operating conditions can result in heat build-up between the second gears of the transmission's countershaft and secondary shaft. Prolonged operation under these conditions can eventually result in a decrease in the gear's material strength. In higher mileage vehicles, this may lead to chipped or broken gear teeth or, in rare instances, gear failure.

What are "certain operating conditions"?
Extended cruising in top gear with a high engine load but small throttle opening can result in limited oil flow to second gear, causing localized heat build-up. These conditions should be rare. Examples may include extended towing in top gear on a very flat road with a throttle opening of 1/4 or less; or frequent driving up a road with a very consistent slope of approximately 3.5~6%, again maintaining a throttle opening around 1/4 or less.

Under most circumstances, small road undulations or throttle corrections cause the vehicle to go in and out of torque converter lock-up, varying engine rpm, and therefore increasing oil flow to the gears. Increased oil flow dissipates heat and prevents second gear damage.

What should I do now? Can I continue to drive?
Occurrences of lock-up due to gear breakage are very rare, especially at low mileage. There are no confirmed failures in U.S. vehicles with mileage less than 60,000 miles. Acura will notify customers to visit their dealership according to vehicle age, allowing us to efficiently schedule parts and repairs. Please contact your dealer when you receive your notice, or sooner if you notice any abnormal noises from your transmission.

How and when will Acura begin to notify owners?
Mailings began in early May and will continue until September or until all customers have been notified. We recommend that customers wait until they are notified before trying to schedule an appointment. This will allow us to carry out the most efficient, effective and timely campaign.

What is the dealer looking for when inspecting the transmission?
Vehicles with less than 15,000 miles - The technician will update the transmission with a simple modification to the oil cooler return line to increase lubrication to second gear.

Vehicles with more than 15,000 miles - The technician will inspect the second gear for discoloration of the gear due to heat damage. If there is any evidence of heat damage, the transmission will be replaced. If discoloration is not present, the dealer will perform the modification to the oil cooler return line.

What is this "simple modification to the oil cooler return line"?
It is a relatively simple repair involving the installation of an "oil jet kit" that is mounted on the top of the transmission. The modification works by taking a portion of the transmission fluid that is flowing back from the cooling system and spraying that fluid directly onto the affected gear, eliminating the potential for heat damage.

How can I be sure I won't have problems with this repair in later years, after the warranty period has expired?
For vehicles affected by this campaign, installation of the oil kit provides a permanent repair.

Should my vehicle be towed to the dealership?
If you experience transmission noise or transmission lock-up, the vehicle should be towed to the dealership. If not, it can be driven to the dealership when the appointment is scheduled.

Is there a way for me or my independent repair facility to diagnose this problem?
No, your vehicle must be taken to an authorized Acura dealership for a thorough inspection and accurate repair.

Why is the dealer repair different from the manufacturing repair?
The manufacturing change was relatively easy to accomplish during transmission production, but to apply the same repair at the dealership would require transmission removal and disassembly. Installation of the oil kit is a permanent repair that is easily accomplished at the dealership.

TL_6SPD

Remanu, not new.

And all I can say is goodbye to the new TLs resale value.

Road Rage

I think you are premature in that conclusion. Besides, remanufactured parts are often better than OE, because they have had ALL the upgrades needed, and are built to the same tolerances as a new one. It is not like owning a classic Corvette, where number-matching is the difference between an A-spec or B-spec car.

TL_6SPD

Not from Acura they are not, since I use to own a CL-S. 2 Remands died sooner thant he original.

georgeny

I just don't understand, understand what, how Acura could possibly have allowed any problem with the transmission. Let me say that I have been very happy with my 04 TL to date but this latest situation, a transmission recall, puts me into a very skepical frame of mind concerning Acura. After everything I read about the 02 and 03 tranny problems I couldn't even imagine that any problem with a tranny could be allowed to happen PERIOD! I haven't experienced any problems that seem to have reared up and been discussed in this forum with initial exception of the memory module. That was replaced and the problem corrected. I have now noted some seperation and bubbling of the material covering the rear window brake light. Neither issue upsets me nor creates any undo concern, however, if Acura could allow a tranny problem to happen after all the previous years problems I am getting concerned. Any ompany that would come out with a brand new model year and redesign and still have the same major problem with a part, well it doesn't speak well of management and production teams. I would have thought that no matter what the tranny's would have been defect free even if they had to make them out of gold.

It's great that Acura has an alledged fix but who the hell wants to keep fixing a problem that should't exist. I admit I feel a bit like an ass after having argued with a friend that just sold his 03 after his tranny failed at 18,000 miles without warning. He told me that he was done with Acura's after having been a real Acura stalwart defender. Bought a Lexus! My argument was simple. Come on says I, they had a couple of miserable years because of transmissions and lot's lost face. Would they pssibly allow a new redesigned TL have anythining but the best defect free transmission in any car? Spend a fortune on ads, hell I see the TL ad twice or more an evening on TV. Obviously I am now already a disbeliever in the Acura product control and management.....

It's a shame I was already thinking a RL was in my future in a couple of years. How can I have faith in the even newer RL when it comes out?

Hell my car so far is not supposedly effected by this recall, but I must feel that might just be because the later vin's haven't been on the road enough yet.

I am very disappointed hearing of this tranmission recall!!!

:shit: Hey in there you sure you took care of that tranny problem thing before you hit the john?

George in NY

rets

After reviewing tons of stuff in 2G forum for failed tranny, this simply statement from you and Acura does provide me the better clues and clear answers, especially the part of how to drive. I haven't checked the owner link yet...

Thanks.

svtmike

We had this recall done to our '02 Odyssey (21k miles) on Friday. They inspected the gears, found no problems, and installed the revised oil jet kit.

More concerning was the obvious and undocumented replacement of the latch for the rear hatch of the van, but the trans recall really was No Big Deal(r).

Mike

Xpditor

I agree with what you said, dseag2. I have only seen negativity and sh**-stiring posts from that quarter. I listen to everyone's opinion, but this Club Lexus moderator's credibility is zero with me (for the very reasons you mentioned and more). "Fool me once- shame on you. Fool me twice- shame on me."

My TL is 42,xxx and I am apparently not involved in the recall. When people are saying that Honda/Acura are not being sincere in recall, what is their motive? They have to pay to repair everything that breaks for 4 years. Why would they wait for it to break if they could do a preventative, pre-emptive fix at much less cost?

XP

XP

Xpditor

That's my recollection. You remember? The post that went from 2,000 transmission repairs per year to ONE '04 TL? That's the post with the pictures that suggested we all run out and look at our trannies to see if we had a remanufactured unit as revealed by the presence of blue bolts. Well, my NEW TL with 100 miles on it, that I watched being unloaded from the truck from the factory has blue bolt heads. That's when the "Acura Master Mechanic" came on, laughing, and saying that Silver had misquoted him.

And, didn't the Acura people say they only had ONE tranny failure in the USA but want to prevent failures by doing a recall?

There's always two sides to a story and often the truth lies somewhere in between.

XP

Xpditor

Rets:

My take is that the blue paint is put on the bolts by the torque wrench in the assembly process (my new car has them) to indicate to the assemblers that bolt has already been torqued so that they don't miss any.

As to the "RM" comment in those posts, I don't have further info.

XP

need4spd

Alright, I found something interesting in the post about the recall notice of the 2nd gear faiure on the 2nd gen cars on owners link:

What are "certain operating conditions"?
Extended cruising in top gear with a high engine load but small throttle opening can result in limited oil flow to second gear, causing localized heat build-up. These conditions should be rare. Examples may include extended towing in top gear on a very flat road with a throttle opening of 1/4 or less; or frequent driving up a road with a very consistent slope of approximately 3.5~6%, again maintaining a throttle opening around 1/4 or less.

Under most circumstances, small road undulations or throttle corrections cause the vehicle to go in and out of torque converter lock-up, varying engine rpm, and therefore increasing oil flow to the gears. Increased oil flow dissipates heat and prevents second gear damage.

Isnt this the same condition (50-60mph, 1/4 throttle opeing, ie, maintaining speed, with saem condition on uphills) as the 1500rpm vibration issue?

Could it be the lack of second gear lube at that point vibrating the car?

Once shifted into 4th, the rpms jump, so the lube starts again?

I know acura said elsewise, such as exhust, but maybe it is the tranny.

Would be interesting to see if any who had the 1500rpm vibration/droning sound has it go away after the fix?

Interesting, but no conclusive evidence on this?

jbs221

I'm with you Peter, Im getting a little P'd off at the whole situation. I "like" my car, but I'm not in blind infatuation like some of the people here. But now I have to seriously reevaluate my "like". On paper this was one of the best vars I've ever owned, on the road it's another story. I bought this car purely on the Honda rep as one of the best manufaturers out there with a great dealer network. Well I've had it with the dealer network and Honda in general. I've read eanough here and elsewhere to know all I need to know about what goes on and it's hit or miss. I to have had both great and awful service. That's NOT what I expected bying an ACURA and honestly don't think I'd be treated this way with a Lexus or Infiniti. I know I'm in for a fight when I return to my purchasing dealer this week to fight for new brakes and am LITERALLY sick to my stomach about the tranny issue (see my sig). My I beleive some have gone through 4 transmissions and still have their car?? I'd get a lawyer by the 3rd. It's worth the expense, were' talking about $30k+. In my book that's a lot of money. Oh well, I'm sure others will feel fine getting stepped on, not me.

TL_6SPD

Hmm I don't recall seeing any Master Tech come on here or any misquoted information. I read those threads, and do recall what was said. BLue bolts do mean reman trannys. Please show proof a Master Tech came on here laughing. And this doesn't include Nick04TL because he was wrong on his information anyways.

There is alot more than just 1 tranny failure. Especially since it was included in the recall.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Road Rage --

Both of my remanu'd trannies lasted for LESS mileage than the one preceding it .. and each time I babied my car even more, deathly afraid it would fail again.

Finally, the third one failed WITHOUT warning within 6 hours.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

"What should I do now? Can I continue to drive?
Occurrences of lock-up due to gear breakage are very rare, especially at low mileage. There are no confirmed failures in U.S. vehicles with mileage less than 60,000 miles. Acura will notify customers to visit their dealership according to vehicle age, allowing us to efficiently schedule parts and repairs. Please contact your dealer when you receive your notice, or sooner if you notice any abnormal noises from your transmission."

No confirmed failures with vehicles less than 60,000 miles??!*$!#$!

are you kidding me? That's a blatant lie if I've ever seen one. I wonder what their criteria for "confirming a failure" is ... perhaps they've created some ridiculously elaborate method of confirming a failure, that none of the thousands of REAL FAILED tranny cases could possibly qualify.

The 2004 TL's resale just took a dump.

GaleForce

Early VIN 2004 TL's took a dump, if any. I haven't heard of any problems with 2004 TL's transmission, I don't see why this is still a problem. 2nd Gen TLs are a different story.

TL_6SPD

Took a dumb on what, resale? They don't go by early or late, its the full 2004 line.

Well it is still a problem, so accept it man.

rets

need4spd, I see the same thing, too. While my recalled tranny gets fixed, I'll let you know if that "oil jet kit" does kill this so-called resonance of exhaust at 1500 RPM/5th gear, as you may know that my tranny has this "vibration" since day 1.

1SICKLEX

Why don't you and dseag2 take the re-manufactured Tranny with the additional tranny oil jets for additional lubrication and take turns having fun shoving them up your candy asses.
Fool you once-Acura did. Fool you twice-Acura did, so shame on you, lol.

svtmike

Rets,

The oil jet kit did not change this characteristic in my Odyssey (very similar drivetrain), so I doubt that it will change it in the TL.

Mike

DC5_Integra

So far the car only has 3600 km's.. since february.
So far it's been ok.. the last 5 digits are 01861

Teh Jatt

^ you are in canada, might want to call canadian ACS

DivinDude

Well .. after going thru the 2nd gen tranny mess with Honda and their HORRIBLE response .. and it would appear that the 2 & 3rd gen trannies are of the same series .. I will be writing off the 3rd gen TL with an auto .. shame .. In case Phil from Acura's midwest district is reading .. still want to stand by your statement "Honda's transmissions are designed differently from other manufacturers because our engineers feel it is more reliable" .. HA