boringegg

this quesiton maybe asked...but i couldn't find a thread that's about this topic...
so...my question is on the title...does anyone bilp the thottle when u guys downshifting using SS?? does it hurt the tranny???
please delete my thread if it's duplicate..thx!!!

svtmike

I don't. I expect my drive-by-wire-throttle-equipped car to do this exacting work for me.

Mike

jjsC5

I must be missing something here. You can only "blip" the throttle when you are in neutral, or with the clucth pushed in. How would you do this on an automatic car? And why? An automatic transmission has a torque converter which negates the need for matching rpms.

rets

As I know blipping throttle is "quickly opening and shutting the throttle", without appropriately using the clutch, it's hard to perform this. Am I right?

I know this is must-learn technic for motorcycle, too.



In case you don't know what is "blipping throttle"...

A quick stab on the throttle to quickly raise the RPM's of the engine in order to downshift without damaging your engine or drivetrain. Done in conjunction with the clutch and brake during heel and toe. Best facilitated by moving your right knee to the right.

Ron A

In case someone misses your subtle explanation, with its also subtle references to "the clutch", or the reply by jjsC5, you only need to blip the throttle if you have a MANUAL (OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE 6MT) TRANSMISSION , and there is no need, and really no way, to blip the throttle with an automatic (5AT) transmission.

cliff

ive tried it with the 5at, it works, but you have to do it quick because the delay on the downshifting isnt that much.

SouthernBoy

This is a technique that is used with manual transmissions and one which I have used as standard operating procedure since my late teens. I have written many paragraphs on this very topic and even submitted two papers in college on the subject.

If you are talking downshifting a manual transmission, there are certainly many ways in which to accomplish this procedure, but if you want to do it correctly, there is really only one way to do it.

If you want, I can post a collage of some of my text on this very subject, but I am quite sure I will get some negative feedback.

Ron A

We believe you, and agree that this is a viable method when used with a manual transmission.

However, the subject and topic of this thread is "Bilping (sic) throttle when downshift using SS?", SS being Sport Shift, meaning an automatic transmission is involved. So, we are not arguing about blipping a manual transmission, but are discussing, in this thread, the need, or even the possibility, of blipping an automatic transmission when downshifting.

SouthernBoy

To Ron A;

Yes, I know that. I was just offering some info whereby this technique could be shown to be of use.

SiGGy

You cannot REV match a down shift /w an automatic tranmission, which is why you would blip the throttle in the 1st place. (excluding BMW's SMG, and some other computer controlled manual tranmissions)

It is impossible on an automatic tranmission. Regardless of what you think your doing.

Anyone who doesn't understand how automatics work would make a statment as such. The planetary gears and band sin the tranmission would never allow this to happen under normal operation.

Although the tranmission has a delay your *STILL* locked in the gear until it shifts. There is NOT a transisition period where the tranmission puts itself in a neutral position during shifts.

Road Rage

Blipping is not done when the clutch is engaged. It is silly and perhaps dangerous to do in an automatic, so my comments apply to manual trannies.

One blips the throttle in a simple gear change (not involving braking), it order to reduce shock load to the drivetrain, and also at high speed to reduce disturbing the suspenion (and the car's) "line".

Heel and toe (actually a misnomer, as most cars today are set up for rolling the ball of the foot rather than the using the heel and toe) is used when one needs to downshift AND brake simultaneously. The reasons are the same as a simple blip - to maintain car stability at speed, and reduce wear on the car). At hi perf driving school, they teach the WHY's first, then the HOW's. It really becomes automatic once you have done it right a few times, and stays with you through your lifetime. After a few minutes in any car, I can do it usually better than the owner.

Footwear becomes an issue for really competitive, consistent, and safe heel and toe'ing (goofing up on the braking part can be dangerous to you and others). I use Puma race shoes, which have soft leather, and no knobby protrusions to catch, and are just thick enough in the sole to give stability, but no so thick that all sense of pressure is lost.

rets

Wow, boss, it's honor to have your 1st over our forum... As I said above, I truly doubt how to use this technique without the clutch... at least, for me, I don't know how...

SiGGy

To even do it in an automatic the tranmissions has to be in a neutral position. Which does not happen between gear shifts.

And the reason to blip is to rev match the down shift.

SiGGy

1st of all, it's not my 1st post.

Read under my username. Want me to make it 65535 posts would that make this post any better?

If you knew how and automatic transmission works BOSS you'd know it's impossible without putting the car in neutral. I don't understand your boss comment?!?

Just stating facts...

rets

I know you from CL, where you have more posts than we know, 1st = the beginning over TL, and BOSS=Admins, no offence but respect.

Thanks for your replies on this topic.

SiGGy

Oh, my bad... sorry man

6mtV6

You blip the throttle to rev match on a manual tranny car. Double clutch.

I read on freshalloy that the 05 G35 sedan 5at will alow you to "double clutch" or blip the throttle so down shifting will be smoother.


http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthre...b=5&o=&fpart=1

jjsC5

I read that too (and responded). I think they are full of shit.

boringegg

opps sorry guys...i think i shouldn't use the "bilp" in the first place...maybe i shoudl say rev matching by applying gas.....
mine is a 5AT....it's jsut that i'm trying make the car smoother when i downshifting from 4-3 or 3-2.....all i'm curious is that anyone does that?? or most ppl think it's unneceassary? cuz i'm not sure if i'm giving too much stress on the clutches in the AT tranny.....
and..no need to flame guys...=)

Aegir

IMO, I think it is unnecessary and could do more harm than good.

twong11219

In my old car, that only had a 4gear automatic, I use to "blip" the trottle everytime I wanted to engine brake or downshift to accelerate. The car did have a small delay in between shifts. I did it because it made the shift to a lower gear smoother. Just like a manual, if you release the clutch and your RPM is not in the correct range, your car jolts.

As for my experience with my TL, the shifting is so smooth and quick that I can't even feel when the car has shifted until I get the slight jolt and the jump in the RPM. The tranny automatically downshifts to the correct gear very well when slowing down so your always in the correct gear to accelerate. As for downshifting to accelerate, I just step on the gas and then downshift. No jolt except when you go WOT, but that maybe what your hoping for.

Pakman

This thread makes no sense at all. I have an auto TL and I don't know how blipping would even be accomplished or why it's needed at all. I use to blip the throttle while downshifting when I had my 2000 Si (RIP) which was a 5 speed manual. I didn't do it all the time either. Usually, I would only do it when I needed to accelerate faster, but I had passengers in the car that I didn't want to scare with "hard and jerky" downshifts.. hehe... yeah, that car had no torque so I had to do alot of downshifting.

Road Rage

Uh, yeah, I wrote:
One blips the throttle in a simple gear change (not involving braking), in order to reduce "shock load to the drivetrain, and also at high speed to reduce disturbing the suspenion (and the car's) "line"."

???

Ron A

I propose a truce.

Since this thread was initially conceived to elicit information on blipping the throttle with an automatic transmission :

1. If you have a 5AT and think you can blip the throttle during shifts, go to it. Just give us a detailed explanation of how you achieved this and how it has helped your transmission to shift more smoothly that the computer controlled processes.

2. If you have a 6AT and want to blip the throttle during shifts, go to it. This is an accepted procedure for manual transmissions.

If you have any other methods of reducing shock to the drive train on your 5AT, do whatever works for you, and again, let us know so we can benefit from your experience.