TL-Rocket

Has anyone changed the gear lube in their 6MT yet?

The shift from 1st to 2nd is no longer as smooth as new so I'm thinking about
changing mine. Does anyone have any experience with this - or suggestions for a brand / type?

TL-Rocket

WOOCHOW

I'll be changing mine out soon. I plan to use RedLine MTL. Have had great results in the past. (although this is my first Acura)

3PUTT

my friend strongly recommeds this:

SodaLuvr

My recommendation would be to use either Redline MTL or Specialty Formulations MTL-P. Both of these have roughly the same the same viscosity as Honda MTF (within 0.5cst, depending on the batch), but are much better than Honda’s fluid since they’re both synthetics.

However, the Specialty Formulations has a huge advantage over the MTL because of its higher TBN, which means that it can last longer than the Redline MTL. The Redline MTL’s TBN starts out at around 4-5, where the Specialty Formulation’s starts out about 13. Big difference. In addition, many reports have shown Redline MTL to be no longer suitable for continued use because of the higher TAN number after only 20,000 miles.

The price is within $1-$2/quart, with Redline MTL at about $9-$10/quart, and Specialty Formulations around $44/gallon shipped. The TL requires 2.5 quarts for the Manual Transmission, I believe.

The Redline MTL is a product that has been on the market for quite a while, but although the Specialty Formulations is a relatively “new player on the market,” we’ve had great success with their products on Bobistheoilguy. BTW 3PUTT, Specialty Formulations makes a similar product known as Autoglide I believe, but I recommend the MTL-P over it since the viscosity of the MTL-P is much closer to Honda MTF.

Michael

SodaLuvr

Correction: Specialty Formulation's Synchromesh fluid is known as Synchroglide, not Autoglide.

Specialty Formulations FAQ

E-mail spform2004@yahoo.com to order as their ordering system is not yet functional.

Michael

SodaLuvr

Disregard my previous message regarding the order form, I guess that the website has some compatibility problems with FireFox.

The link to the order form worked in IE, as with all of the links, but none of the links worked while accessing the website in FireFox.

Specialty Formulations Order Form

Michael

SodaLuvr

Also, I rechecked the price. If you click on the "domestic shipping" button on the order page, the total comes out to $42.70 shipped for the gallon jug of Specialty Formulations MTL-P.

Ron A

All the links work on my FF.

Hawhyen51

Michael, thanks for the info on the Special Formulation? When would be a suitable time to change out the MTF? I have about 10.5k and just had my B1 service done. Also the order form works for me on FF. Thanks!

SodaLuvr

Hawhyen51, whenever you want. I usually recommend no later than 15,000 miles for the first replacement because of the leftover wear metals in the fluid after break-in. After installing the Speciality Formulations MTL-P, run it for 30K, then have it analyzed to see if its still suitable for continued use.

Michael

Hawhyen51

Michael, appreciate the input and the quick answer.

deandorsey

oh boy....wheres roadrage on this? lol

here is what you want....

* 6 spd tranny fluid change *

Road Rage

As they say in the Law "asked and answered". I already posted on some observations and recommendations in the RR Journals, and have neither the time nor the patience to repost; I do not like to pay for the same real estate twice. I recommend the poster look in the RR Journals for some info which might prove useful in his quest.

Michael seems big on the SF stuff - not sure how important TBN is in a tranny lubricant, as there are no combustion by products like sulfur or hydrogen to acidify the lubricant. But I suppose under certain situations a high TBN might be a benefit, as long as the additives needed to effect a high TBN (like calcium) do not adversely affect synchro action. I do not recall ever seeing even a primitive "minoil" based lube like Honda's MTF leave any corrosive pitting or chemical wear in a tranny. But I can always examine evidence to the contrary.

I am using the GMSFM in the S2000, and continue to be impressed with its feel, smooth synchro action, and the reports by many users on S2KI.com. MW had a bit of a tizz over the GMSFM's vis, but the analysis I saw did not look like others I have seen, and the semi-syn formulation has a high film strength, so a bit lower vis does not concern me much.

terse

how do you change gear lube?

TL-Rocket

Thanks Road Rage,

I'd read your previous comments on this subject, but I was curious to see if any more facts had come to light since.

TL-Rocket

Ron A

Go to the 3G Garage.

C-013: DIY: 6MT tranny fluid change
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93452

KilroyR1

Per RR's recommendation, I used the GM-SFM. It transformed the shifting. I have not tried anything else and see no reason to try.

YMMV,

Don

TL-Rocket

How long have you been using the GM-SFM?

TL-Rocket

deandorsey

or check post #12 lol

Ron A

kosh2258

I changed out the factory fill about a year ago, shortly after I got the car, because of the somewhat notchy shifting feel. I used the Redline MTL based on input from members here.

The Redline MTL helped initially to improve the shifting smoothness, but it didn't stay there. After a year in use, the tranny shifting is getting back to where it was with the factory fill. It hasn't been a bad experience, just not what I had hoped for. If nothing else it provided a flush to get any debris out of the gearbox.

So my plan, at this point, is to run the Redline MTL to 15k, then I'm going to visit my nearest GM dealer or auto parts store, get the GM-SFM, and change out the tranny fill with that.

For me, film strength and frictional coefficient are more important factors in a MT than the TBN of the lube.

KilroyR1

About 2500 miles, its like magic.

Don

SodaLuvr

Guys,
I might have put too much on the TBN of MTL-P. Nevertheless, that stuff is excellent. Some of you here should definitely give that stuff a look. I think the MTL is going bad because its shearing, which seems to be common with MTL products since they don't tend to last longer than 20K because of shearing and TAN buildup.

Michael

NBP04TL4ME

Okay - I'll bite. Do you need to change the tranny fluid on a manual transmission or is this a personal preference type of thing . I have owned many mannys up to 10 years and up to 200K, but never, never changed any tranny fluid.

JackSprat01

AND has anyone tried to change it through the dipstick? I really don't want to take the battery out and all that.

subinf

manual tranny with a dipstick? you sure you dont mean auto?

SodaLuvr

Nah, this is required vehicle maintenance. MT lubes do shear down, with use, after all. I'd do every 30K, extend it longer with fluid analysis.

Michael

KilroyR1

The problem is Honda uses MTL that is so thin, its like WD50. It just plain sucks. I've been driving manuals all my life and I could not shift into second gear without a grind.

I changed to the GMS-FM and it shifts perfectly now. I'm not saying Redline won't work. I use Redline oils in all my motorcycles after break-in (they see lots of track duty).

Don

kosh2258

Yep, the oil should be changed on a regular basis.

The lube provides a cushion between the moving parts and is constantly getting "squeezed" between the gear faces, bearing, synchros, etc. So over time it just gets worn out.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, I'm by no means knocking Michael Wan's suggestion to try MTL-P (I don't think he took it that way either).

But to get good shifting action in a MT, the friction coefficent of the lube has to be in the "groove" for that particular transmission. It varies from manufacturer to manufacturer so one size won't fit all.

I'm going the GMSFM route because there is plenty of positive feedback on the product from other Honda product owners which indicates it's a good fit to the Honda design parameters.

The Redline MTL has been better than the factory fill, to be sure, but it appears to wear down rather quickly and I don't care to be under my car changing tranny juice quite so frequently. Not that changing the oil is hard to do, it isn't, but I'd rather it be every other year than a annual ritual.

JackSprat01

no, I mean manual 6spd. Isn't there a fill hole or dipstick for the fluid? I mean, you've got to check the fluid somehow, right?

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

There's in inspection bolt under the car for 6MT but no dipstick. It's on the same side as the drain plug, but higher. You have to unscrew the bolt to check the fluid.

subinf

there is a fill plug, its easiest to access from the underside of the car, though on some hondas/acuras in the past it has been just as easy from the top.

JackSprat01

Right, so how hard would it be to simply suck out the fluid from the inspection bolt or fill plug? Would you still need to take the battery out, etc?

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

What I've been doing is just remove the inspection bolt and touch the fluid inside with your finger. If the fluid is of the right level, it shouldn't be lower than the hole. You can see the fluid on your finger to see if it's burnt or foamy, etc.

You don't need to remove the battery to check the fluid. You have to crawl under the car though. I think I'm going to attempt to refill the fluid through the inspection hole when the time comes. I don't feel like removing the battery just for simple stuff like this.

subinf

what about just taking out the drain plug? thats the easiest. you can suck the fluid out but that just seems like more work.

JackSprat01

Ok, yes, I guess what I'm saying is that I want to FILL it easily without taking the battery out. I have no problem getting under the car to drain it...I change my own oil anyway.

subinf

Ohh ok...I should have figured that was what you wanted, sorry. Its hard for me to sometimes understand "normal" people situation because I've always had access to a lift at my shop so rarely do I have to think about work not done on a lift.

KilroyR1

Sorry Dude, that won't work. On past cars, I have filled the trans through the inspection hole, it is just too small on the TL. You will have to go in from the top and remove the battery and battery box.

It's not hard and only takes a few minutes. I also took off the intake tubing for better access.

The fill plug has a square hole, you just use a 3/8" extension (no socket) to open an close it. I scratched my head on that one for a few minutes.

Don

Road Rage

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/tl-cl-video-105573/

Nepo - I do not want to appear unsympathetic, but this one has been asked and answered - if you do some research here in Garage, all will be revealed. I will give the skinny:
1) Honda MTF is essentially a fortified engine oil - a compromised product designed to a price point
2) It works OK, but shears down (loses its viscosity) rather quickly - this has been verified by people who have done the work and expense of UOA's
3) The gearheads at S2KI.com have tried every fluid known to man, and the preference is GMS-FM. I tried MTL and was not happy with it - it performed about the same as MTF, but likely would have lasted longer.
4) Every tranny design is different - what works with one may not work well with another - I have had great luck with MTL in some cars (like my NSX) and not so good luck in others.

3PUTT

i just had my MT Fluid changed. i picked up 3 quarts of the GMS-FM this morning. it definitely shifts smoother now. the factory fluid was still fine at almost 22K miles. since i had some worked done to the car this morning, i figured that i might as well get it done too.

review - smoother shifts. stock was getting a little notchy (not as bad as the mustangs). i strongly recommend this product!!

got them at $11-$12/qt.