6MT Gear Lube
05-02-2005, 06:08 PM
#42
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by JackSprat01
AND has anyone tried to change it through the dipstick? I really don't want to take the battery out and all that.
I have proven to JS01 that there is no need to remove the battery to get the top filler bolt off (I did his car on Sunday).
Is there a dipstick on the 6MT?
05-02-2005, 10:07 PM
#43
Licking Platters Clean
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RR the Legend...working on MY CAR!!!
Originally Posted by Road Rage
FYI.
I have proven to JS01 that there is no need to remove the battery to get the top filler bolt off (I did his car on Sunday).
I have proven to JS01 that there is no need to remove the battery to get the top filler bolt off (I did his car on Sunday).
Confirmed everyone, I would have brought a camera and taken pictures, but after looking at it, I didn't honestly think it could be done.
With the skill of a neurosurgeon, RR was able to take a ratchet, two extentions and a universal joint and go AROUND the battery and pop the plug. He then used an extendable magnetic mast (looks like a radio antenna from a boom box) to rescue the plug. He then popped the drain plug and drained. He then used a long funnel (with tubing maybe?) and refilled.
I can't recommend that anyone really try this unless a) you have the tools (as you might have guessed, Rage has every tool known to mankind) and b) you have an extremely steady hand and the dexterity to jimmy the plug out without dropping it.
Road Rage is the real deal. It was an honor to pass him tools as he asked for them!
I'm learning though, because you can't help but learn a thing or two when you hang out in RR's garage. Also, GMFM is the real deal as well. It's like someone dumped some KY in my tranny, I'm lovin it!
05-03-2005, 03:37 AM
#44
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I appreciate RR's dexterity and ingenuity, but is really that tough to pull the battery in these cars?
I plan on changing the fluid in my car shortly and am looking for the easiest way. For the Connecticut members, Jack's Chevy in Colchester sels the GMS-FM for $8.95 a quart. Peace
I plan on changing the fluid in my car shortly and am looking for the easiest way. For the Connecticut members, Jack's Chevy in Colchester sels the GMS-FM for $8.95 a quart. Peace
05-03-2005, 08:10 AM
#45
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by WOOCHOW
I appreciate RR's dexterity and ingenuity, but is really that tough to pull the battery in these cars?
I plan on changing the fluid in my car shortly and am looking for the easiest way. For the Connecticut members, Jack's Chevy in Colchester sels the GMS-FM for $8.95 a quart. Peace
I plan on changing the fluid in my car shortly and am looking for the easiest way. For the Connecticut members, Jack's Chevy in Colchester sels the GMS-FM for $8.95 a quart. Peace
yea i dont know what the big deal is? it takes about a minute.....
hey thanks for that!..
i think rip-off mj's in new london charged me ay least $15....
05-03-2005, 08:40 AM
#46
Licking Platters Clean
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It's not a big deal, but if you have the tools and skills, why not? Like I said, it's not for everyone, but why did RR do it? BECAUSE HE CAN! Other advantages include not having to enter your codes for the radio and NAV and also no ECU to re-train.
05-03-2005, 09:24 AM
#47
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Road Rage
FYI.
I have proven to JS01 that there is no need to remove the battery to get the top filler bolt off (I did his car on Sunday).
Is there a dipstick on the 6MT?
I have proven to JS01 that there is no need to remove the battery to get the top filler bolt off (I did his car on Sunday).
Is there a dipstick on the 6MT?
05-03-2005, 06:09 PM
#48
Not a Blowhole
Originally Posted by WOOCHOW
I appreciate RR's dexterity and ingenuity, but is really that tough to pull the battery in these cars?
I plan on changing the fluid in my car shortly and am looking for the easiest way. For the Connecticut members, Jack's Chevy in Colchester sels the GMS-FM for $8.95 a quart. Peace
I plan on changing the fluid in my car shortly and am looking for the easiest way. For the Connecticut members, Jack's Chevy in Colchester sels the GMS-FM for $8.95 a quart. Peace
Working with JS01 was pleasurable - he made it easy for "the Doctor" to perform surgery on his beautiful car.
I like challenges, and travelling the road untaken.
05-05-2005, 01:08 PM
#49
AZ Community Team
Yet another 6MT gear lube
Honda/Acura's used to specify 10W-30 or 10W-40 weight engine oil for their manual transaxles for ~20 years. Then in the mid 90's they went to specifiing Honda brand MTF, althought the owners manual does specify you can use engine oil in the transaxle for short period use (100 miles?, I need to re-read my TL manual).
For my wife's 86 Integra I used initially Castrol GTX, then switched to Mobil 1 10W-30 or Castrol Syntec 10W-30. The synthetic oils worked much better than the dino oil. The shift's were easier with reduced friction/notchness feel. I used to change the synthetic oil in the gearbox every 30K miles and there was no difference in feel after the change so I figured the amount of breakdown was small.
For my TL I've wondered about going back to Mobil-1 or Syntec engine oil for the transaxle fluid. Honda like some other automanufacturers have gotten stricter with what fluids their products use and generally they want you to use their products. For quality and process control as well as profits are the typical reasons. None the less I may try 10W-30 Mobil 1 in the TL transaxle when I get close to the 6MT fluid change period.
Why Honda/Acura use engine oil for their manual gearboxs I do not know. My guess is that they have alot of experience with engine oil in lubricating the gearboxes of their motorcycle engines so that maybe the experience they have. I know motorcycle engines do not have synchro's but dogrings and shift drums so some of the technology is different but the gears still do the same function in terms of shear forces and loads.
For my wife's 86 Integra I used initially Castrol GTX, then switched to Mobil 1 10W-30 or Castrol Syntec 10W-30. The synthetic oils worked much better than the dino oil. The shift's were easier with reduced friction/notchness feel. I used to change the synthetic oil in the gearbox every 30K miles and there was no difference in feel after the change so I figured the amount of breakdown was small.
For my TL I've wondered about going back to Mobil-1 or Syntec engine oil for the transaxle fluid. Honda like some other automanufacturers have gotten stricter with what fluids their products use and generally they want you to use their products. For quality and process control as well as profits are the typical reasons. None the less I may try 10W-30 Mobil 1 in the TL transaxle when I get close to the 6MT fluid change period.
Why Honda/Acura use engine oil for their manual gearboxs I do not know. My guess is that they have alot of experience with engine oil in lubricating the gearboxes of their motorcycle engines so that maybe the experience they have. I know motorcycle engines do not have synchro's but dogrings and shift drums so some of the technology is different but the gears still do the same function in terms of shear forces and loads.
Originally Posted by Road Rage
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/tl-cl-video-105573/
Nepo - I do not want to appear unsympathetic, but this one has been asked and answered - if you do some research here in Garage, all will be revealed. I will give the skinny:
1) Honda MTF is essentially a fortified engine oil - a compromised product designed to a price point
2) It works OK, but shears down (loses its viscosity) rather quickly - this has been verified by people who have done the work and expense of UOA's
3) The gearheads at S2KI.com have tried every fluid known to man, and the preference is GMS-FM. I tried MTL and was not happy with it - it performed about the same as MTF, but likely would have lasted longer.
4) Every tranny design is different - what works with one may not work well with another - I have had great luck with MTL in some cars (like my NSX) and not so good luck in others.
Nepo - I do not want to appear unsympathetic, but this one has been asked and answered - if you do some research here in Garage, all will be revealed. I will give the skinny:
1) Honda MTF is essentially a fortified engine oil - a compromised product designed to a price point
2) It works OK, but shears down (loses its viscosity) rather quickly - this has been verified by people who have done the work and expense of UOA's
3) The gearheads at S2KI.com have tried every fluid known to man, and the preference is GMS-FM. I tried MTL and was not happy with it - it performed about the same as MTF, but likely would have lasted longer.
4) Every tranny design is different - what works with one may not work well with another - I have had great luck with MTL in some cars (like my NSX) and not so good luck in others.
05-06-2005, 05:40 PM
#50
Not a Blowhole
Lots of anecdotalsharing, but historically short-sighted and downright irrelevant info here IMO.
1) Yes, Honda used to use engine oil in the transaxles. That changed in 1996. Engine oil is not the best lube for trannies, as its coefficient of friction (CoF) leads to less than optimal synchro feel, and it shears down rather quickly. Honda spec'd 30k and often 15k change intervals. In 1996, the NSX was switched to Honda MTF, which they claimed was a "fill for life". That changed later as well. The point is that the past is not the indicator of the present. As new facts and eng'g studies/wear analysis/MTBF, and other eng'g principles well known to mech and industrial engineers emerge, things change. Also consider that all mfrs have gone to extended service interval products to lower TCO and enhance their marketability to people who do not like to bring their cars in for service often.
2) Motorcycles use wet clutches, right? The requirements of moto engines and automobile trannies are quite different, and therefore you are comparing apples and oranges.
3) Just because Honda says it is OK to use engine oil in an emergency only means that they do not want people stranded by the side of the road in Ypsilanti because Joe;s Garage only has engine oil, not MTF or its equivalent. To suggest it makes a case for moving away froma quality MTF (Honda or otherwise) is simply logic that is beyond my warped, engineer's brain. In fact, I would think that with the added slipperiness of today's engine oils, shift quality would be worse than ever!
CoF and tranny action are well explained at Red Line's site in layman's terms - the only thing is I have not found RL's products to be the best in Honda trannies - good, better than HG MTF, but not the best.
You are of course free to experiment as you desire.
1) Yes, Honda used to use engine oil in the transaxles. That changed in 1996. Engine oil is not the best lube for trannies, as its coefficient of friction (CoF) leads to less than optimal synchro feel, and it shears down rather quickly. Honda spec'd 30k and often 15k change intervals. In 1996, the NSX was switched to Honda MTF, which they claimed was a "fill for life". That changed later as well. The point is that the past is not the indicator of the present. As new facts and eng'g studies/wear analysis/MTBF, and other eng'g principles well known to mech and industrial engineers emerge, things change. Also consider that all mfrs have gone to extended service interval products to lower TCO and enhance their marketability to people who do not like to bring their cars in for service often.
2) Motorcycles use wet clutches, right? The requirements of moto engines and automobile trannies are quite different, and therefore you are comparing apples and oranges.
3) Just because Honda says it is OK to use engine oil in an emergency only means that they do not want people stranded by the side of the road in Ypsilanti because Joe;s Garage only has engine oil, not MTF or its equivalent. To suggest it makes a case for moving away froma quality MTF (Honda or otherwise) is simply logic that is beyond my warped, engineer's brain. In fact, I would think that with the added slipperiness of today's engine oils, shift quality would be worse than ever!
CoF and tranny action are well explained at Red Line's site in layman's terms - the only thing is I have not found RL's products to be the best in Honda trannies - good, better than HG MTF, but not the best.
You are of course free to experiment as you desire.
05-11-2005, 03:17 PM
#51
AZ Community Team
I actually thought your response was lots of anecdotal sharing, but historically short-sighted and downright irrelevant info 
The only two fluids Honda/Acura specify for the TL is the Honda MTF and engine oil 10W-30/10W-40. The factory shop manual and owners manual does not specify the use of regular manual gearbox oil anywhere. More than likely Honda engineers are fully aware of the existance of manual gearbox oil, so my guess is the substitute of the engine oil is that it is the closest match to their MTF. Again I don't know for certain but doubt it's for availablity convenence.
If you think you know more about the lubrication requirements of a vehicle than the people who designed and developed it great. I typically go by what the manufacturer recommends and not what my friend/neighbor/paperboy/internet forum says.
The only two fluids Honda/Acura specify for the TL is the Honda MTF and engine oil 10W-30/10W-40. The factory shop manual and owners manual does not specify the use of regular manual gearbox oil anywhere. More than likely Honda engineers are fully aware of the existance of manual gearbox oil, so my guess is the substitute of the engine oil is that it is the closest match to their MTF. Again I don't know for certain but doubt it's for availablity convenence.
If you think you know more about the lubrication requirements of a vehicle than the people who designed and developed it great. I typically go by what the manufacturer recommends and not what my friend/neighbor/paperboy/internet forum says.
Originally Posted by Road Rage
Lots of anecdotalsharing, but historically short-sighted and downright irrelevant info here IMO.
1) Yes, Honda used to use engine oil in the transaxles. That changed in 1996. Engine oil is not the best lube for trannies, as its coefficient of friction (CoF) leads to less than optimal synchro feel, and it shears down rather quickly. Honda spec'd 30k and often 15k change intervals. In 1996, the NSX was switched to Honda MTF, which they claimed was a "fill for life". That changed later as well. The point is that the past is not the indicator of the present. As new facts and eng'g studies/wear analysis/MTBF, and other eng'g principles well known to mech and industrial engineers emerge, things change. Also consider that all mfrs have gone to extended service interval products to lower TCO and enhance their marketability to people who do not like to bring their cars in for service often.
2) Motorcycles use wet clutches, right? The requirements of moto engines and automobile trannies are quite different, and therefore you are comparing apples and oranges.
3) Just because Honda says it is OK to use engine oil in an emergency only means that they do not want people stranded by the side of the road in Ypsilanti because Joe;s Garage only has engine oil, not MTF or its equivalent. To suggest it makes a case for moving away froma quality MTF (Honda or otherwise) is simply logic that is beyond my warped, engineer's brain. In fact, I would think that with the added slipperiness of today's engine oils, shift quality would be worse than ever!
CoF and tranny action are well explained at Red Line's site in layman's terms - the only thing is I have not found RL's products to be the best in Honda trannies - good, better than HG MTF, but not the best.
You are of course free to experiment as you desire.
1) Yes, Honda used to use engine oil in the transaxles. That changed in 1996. Engine oil is not the best lube for trannies, as its coefficient of friction (CoF) leads to less than optimal synchro feel, and it shears down rather quickly. Honda spec'd 30k and often 15k change intervals. In 1996, the NSX was switched to Honda MTF, which they claimed was a "fill for life". That changed later as well. The point is that the past is not the indicator of the present. As new facts and eng'g studies/wear analysis/MTBF, and other eng'g principles well known to mech and industrial engineers emerge, things change. Also consider that all mfrs have gone to extended service interval products to lower TCO and enhance their marketability to people who do not like to bring their cars in for service often.
2) Motorcycles use wet clutches, right? The requirements of moto engines and automobile trannies are quite different, and therefore you are comparing apples and oranges.
3) Just because Honda says it is OK to use engine oil in an emergency only means that they do not want people stranded by the side of the road in Ypsilanti because Joe;s Garage only has engine oil, not MTF or its equivalent. To suggest it makes a case for moving away froma quality MTF (Honda or otherwise) is simply logic that is beyond my warped, engineer's brain. In fact, I would think that with the added slipperiness of today's engine oils, shift quality would be worse than ever!
CoF and tranny action are well explained at Red Line's site in layman's terms - the only thing is I have not found RL's products to be the best in Honda trannies - good, better than HG MTF, but not the best.
You are of course free to experiment as you desire.
05-12-2005, 10:42 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by Legend2TL
I actually thought your response was lots of anecdotal sharing, but historically short-sighted and downright irrelevant info
The only two fluids Honda/Acura specify for the TL is the Honda MTF and engine oil 10W-30/10W-40. The factory shop manual and owners manual does not specify the use of regular manual gearbox oil anywhere. More than likely Honda engineers are fully aware of the existance of manual gearbox oil, so my guess is the substitute of the engine oil is that it is the closest match to their MTF. Again I don't know for certain but doubt it's for availablity convenence.
If you think you know more about the lubrication requirements of a vehicle than the people who designed and developed it great. I typically go by what the manufacturer recommends and not what my friend/neighbor/paperboy/internet forum says.
The only two fluids Honda/Acura specify for the TL is the Honda MTF and engine oil 10W-30/10W-40. The factory shop manual and owners manual does not specify the use of regular manual gearbox oil anywhere. More than likely Honda engineers are fully aware of the existance of manual gearbox oil, so my guess is the substitute of the engine oil is that it is the closest match to their MTF. Again I don't know for certain but doubt it's for availablity convenence.
If you think you know more about the lubrication requirements of a vehicle than the people who designed and developed it great. I typically go by what the manufacturer recommends and not what my friend/neighbor/paperboy/internet forum says.
Manual Transmission Fluid:
Honda Manual Transmission
Fluid preferred, or an SAE 10W-30
or 10W-40 motor oil as a
temporary replacement (see page
21).
As for trusting the people who designed the car, have you read Honda/Acura's recommended shift points on page 179 of the owners manual. Here they are...Honda Manual Transmission
Fluid preferred, or an SAE 10W-30
or 10W-40 motor oil as a
temporary replacement (see page
21).
1st to 2nd - 17 mph
2nd to 3rd - 27 mph
3rd to 4th - 36 mph
4th to 5th - 41 mph
5th to 6th - 44 mph
I don't shift into 6th unless I'm on the highway above 70 mph. I don't think the recommendations in the manual are always in the long-term best interests of the cars or the owners.2nd to 3rd - 27 mph
3rd to 4th - 36 mph
4th to 5th - 41 mph
5th to 6th - 44 mph
I have the GMSM-FM and my car now shifts beautifully. I appreciate RR's recommendations because I do not have the desire to perform all the testing myself.
If you disagree, fine don't blast someone else for thinking outside the box.
It just occurred to me, your about 10 minutes away, we should blast down some of the country roads together.
Don
05-12-2005, 09:39 PM
#53
Racer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by KilroyR1
Check the last page of the owners manual. First paragraph in the middle column reads...
I have the GMSM-FM and my car now shifts beautifully. I appreciate RR's recommendations because I do not have the desire to perform all the testing myself.
If you disagree, fine don't blast someone else for thinking outside the box.
It just occurred to me, your about 10 minutes away, we should blast down some of the country roads together.
Don
Manual Transmission Fluid:
Honda Manual Transmission
Fluid preferred, or an SAE 10W-30
or 10W-40 motor oil as a
temporary replacement (see page
21).
As for trusting the people who designed the car, have you read Honda/Acura's recommended shift points on page 179 of the owners manual. Here they are...Honda Manual Transmission
Fluid preferred, or an SAE 10W-30
or 10W-40 motor oil as a
temporary replacement (see page
21).
1st to 2nd - 17 mph
2nd to 3rd - 27 mph
3rd to 4th - 36 mph
4th to 5th - 41 mph
5th to 6th - 44 mph
I don't shift into 6th unless I'm on the highway above 70 mph. I don't think the recommendations in the manual are always in the long-term best interests of the cars or the owners.2nd to 3rd - 27 mph
3rd to 4th - 36 mph
4th to 5th - 41 mph
5th to 6th - 44 mph
I have the GMSM-FM and my car now shifts beautifully. I appreciate RR's recommendations because I do not have the desire to perform all the testing myself.
If you disagree, fine don't blast someone else for thinking outside the box.
It just occurred to me, your about 10 minutes away, we should blast down some of the country roads together.
Don
TL-Rocket
05-14-2005, 06:59 AM
#54
AZ Community Team
I agree with you on not bashing someone for thinking outside the box. However at the same time I was annoyed at RR's bashing my thinking outside the box with my original posting. But also two wrongs don't make a right so I'll leave it at that.
I've been working on cars/motorcycles for family and friends for ~30 years, and Honda/Acura's for ~20. These days it's mostly maintenance fluid/filter changes, tuneups, replacing clutches/timing belts/water pumps/CV joint boots. I've used synthetic engine oil on the Honda manual gearbox's when engine oil was specified and it worked great. My wife's 86 Integra was the smoothest shifiting manual I've ever driven even at 240K miles when we got rid of it.
Glad to read you've had great results with the GMSM-FM, I've been thinking about what to use for the 6MT and I may give it a try. Again always good to have multiple folks trying out something for different opinions.
Hey we should try to get together sometime, Howard County has some nice roads in the Northern and Western area's.
BTW, on your avatar 999 picture is that Troy Corser riding?
FWIW I ride a 20 year old Honda 500 Interceptor. Been thinking about a R1 or CBR1000RR lately.
..... I have the GMSM-FM and my car now shifts beautifully. I appreciate RR's recommendations because I do not have the desire to perform all the testing myself.
If you disagree, fine don't blast someone else for thinking outside the box.
It just occurred to me, your about 10 minutes away, we should blast down some of the country roads together.
Don
I've been working on cars/motorcycles for family and friends for ~30 years, and Honda/Acura's for ~20. These days it's mostly maintenance fluid/filter changes, tuneups, replacing clutches/timing belts/water pumps/CV joint boots. I've used synthetic engine oil on the Honda manual gearbox's when engine oil was specified and it worked great. My wife's 86 Integra was the smoothest shifiting manual I've ever driven even at 240K miles when we got rid of it.
Glad to read you've had great results with the GMSM-FM, I've been thinking about what to use for the 6MT and I may give it a try. Again always good to have multiple folks trying out something for different opinions.
Hey we should try to get together sometime, Howard County has some nice roads in the Northern and Western area's.
BTW, on your avatar 999 picture is that Troy Corser riding?
FWIW I ride a 20 year old Honda 500 Interceptor. Been thinking about a R1 or CBR1000RR lately.
Originally Posted by KilroyR1
..... I have the GMSM-FM and my car now shifts beautifully. I appreciate RR's recommendations because I do not have the desire to perform all the testing myself.
If you disagree, fine don't blast someone else for thinking outside the box.
It just occurred to me, your about 10 minutes away, we should blast down some of the country roads together.
Don
05-17-2005, 08:41 AM
#55
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Neil Hodgsen @ Daytona. After a serious track-day crash, I'm between bikes at the moment. I hope to secure a new GSXR in the next couple of weeks.
If you want to do the tranny fluid change, I'd be happy to help!
Cheers,
Don
If you want to do the tranny fluid change, I'd be happy to help!
Cheers,
Don
05-17-2005, 02:25 PM
#56
AZ Community Team
Thanks for the offer, hope you're OK after the crash.
Are you getting a GSXR600/750/1000?
Are you getting a GSXR600/750/1000?
Originally Posted by KilroyR1
Neil Hodgsen @ Daytona. After a serious track-day crash, I'm between bikes at the moment. I hope to secure a new GSXR in the next couple of weeks.
If you want to do the tranny fluid change, I'd be happy to help!
Cheers,
Don
If you want to do the tranny fluid change, I'd be happy to help!
Cheers,
Don
05-17-2005, 04:21 PM
#57
Instructor
By the way, I have been complaining for the last 1.5 year that my shifting is notchy, but on dealership had offered a solution to that.
I read this post when immediately went out to get the GM synchomesh stuff, and so far it's far smoother than original factory stuff.
I love it!
I read this post when immediately went out to get the GM synchomesh stuff, and so far it's far smoother than original factory stuff.
I love it!
05-17-2005, 08:52 PM
#58
Not a Blowhole
"I agree with you on not bashing someone for thinking outside the box. However at the same time I was annoyed at RR's bashing my thinking outside the box with my original posting."
This is starting to read like a teenage slumber party - if it is bashing to politely point out conceptual, technical, and logical flaws in a post, then peeps are a bit sensitive. I think my long history on this Forum supports a good record on my part.
I could say the Earth is flat - if that is thinking "outside the box" and to be protected no natter how intellectually tenuous, so be it. But to even consider going "Foward into the past" and use engine oil in a TL, esp when there is plenty of empiric and practical experience supporting alternatives, sturck me then and now as being worth debating - otherwise, I would not have bothered.
This is starting to read like a teenage slumber party - if it is bashing to politely point out conceptual, technical, and logical flaws in a post, then peeps are a bit sensitive. I think my long history on this Forum supports a good record on my part.
I could say the Earth is flat - if that is thinking "outside the box" and to be protected no natter how intellectually tenuous, so be it. But to even consider going "Foward into the past" and use engine oil in a TL, esp when there is plenty of empiric and practical experience supporting alternatives, sturck me then and now as being worth debating - otherwise, I would not have bothered.
05-18-2005, 08:02 AM
#60
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I switched my oil over to the GMSM-FM last month and agree that it does make a difference.
However, looking for the easiest way possible, I used a long (24') funnel with a slight dog-leg bend, to fill it and I had to open the fill plug using a series of 3/8" extensions to get down to the top of the tranny. Draining the oil was no different than a regular oil change ( which I also do myself)
It might not have been the way Acura recommends, but it worked flawlessly!
-Chad
However, looking for the easiest way possible, I used a long (24') funnel with a slight dog-leg bend, to fill it and I had to open the fill plug using a series of 3/8" extensions to get down to the top of the tranny. Draining the oil was no different than a regular oil change ( which I also do myself)
It might not have been the way Acura recommends, but it worked flawlessly!
-Chad
05-19-2005, 08:55 AM
#62
AZ Community Team
"This is starting to read like a teenage slumber party - if it is bashing to politely point out conceptual, technical, and logical flaws in a post, then peeps are a bit sensitive. I think my long history on this Forum supports a good record on my part. "
Depends on one's definition of polite and flaws, reread my original posting and your response. I clearly stated facts.
"I could say the Earth is flat - if that is thinking "outside the box" and to be protected no natter how intellectually tenuous, so be it. But to even consider going "Foward into the past" and use engine oil in a TL, esp when there is plenty of empiric and practical experience supporting alternatives, sturck me then and now as being worth debating - otherwise, I would not have bothered."
Huh? Again keep this to facts, the alternative MTF specified for the TL is engine oil (with reduced shift quality according to the owner's manual) so "Forward to the past" makes no sense.
There are lots of alternatives out there I agree and GM fluid seems to be the another choice to Honda MTF according to the folks here and elsewhere.
Informal Honda MTF fluid poll from Honda-Tech
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1232562&page=1
Now where is the smiley face beating the dead horse figure...
Depends on one's definition of polite and flaws, reread my original posting and your response. I clearly stated facts.
"I could say the Earth is flat - if that is thinking "outside the box" and to be protected no natter how intellectually tenuous, so be it. But to even consider going "Foward into the past" and use engine oil in a TL, esp when there is plenty of empiric and practical experience supporting alternatives, sturck me then and now as being worth debating - otherwise, I would not have bothered."
Huh? Again keep this to facts, the alternative MTF specified for the TL is engine oil (with reduced shift quality according to the owner's manual) so "Forward to the past" makes no sense.
There are lots of alternatives out there I agree and GM fluid seems to be the another choice to Honda MTF according to the folks here and elsewhere.
Informal Honda MTF fluid poll from Honda-Tech
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1232562&page=1
Now where is the smiley face beating the dead horse figure...
05-19-2005, 08:56 AM
#63
AZ Community Team
Nice, FWIW this month's Motorcyclist has a first ride article on it.
Originally Posted by KilroyR1
1000
05-19-2005, 09:58 AM
#64
iLL TL 4U2Try
guys so I can just buy the GMSM-FM and take it to a shop, and ask for a
tranny oil flush/change?! I'm at 6k now, at 10k i'll switch to GMSM-FM. Since I don't have the availability of tools, or a place to do it at, I'd have to take it to a shop, but what do I ask them for?! or will they even do it with me providing the GMSM-FM
thanks guys
tranny oil flush/change?! I'm at 6k now, at 10k i'll switch to GMSM-FM. Since I don't have the availability of tools, or a place to do it at, I'd have to take it to a shop, but what do I ask them for?! or will they even do it with me providing the GMSM-FM
thanks guys
05-19-2005, 03:56 PM
#65
HMFIC
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Any technician worth their weight in plastic should be able to do it. It's just a drain and fill of the gearbox lube. Here is the definitive thread on the procedure - CLICK HERE.
I would avoid an Acura dealer because you may end up with a warranty hassle down the road.
Good Luck!
Don
I would avoid an Acura dealer because you may end up with a warranty hassle down the road.
Good Luck!
Don
05-22-2005, 11:27 AM
#66
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Originally Posted by SLVR04TL6PD
However, looking for the easiest way possible, I used a long (24') funnel with a slight dog-leg bend, to fill it and I had to open the fill plug using a series of 3/8" extensions to get down to the top of the tranny. Draining the oil was no different than a regular oil change ( which I also do myself)
-Chad
-Chad
05-22-2005, 08:55 PM
#67
Racer
Thread Starter
Just wondering you guys:
Since we all acknowledge the benefits of GMS-FM as far as shifting smoothness goes, what's the verdict on GMS-FM's lubricating abilities as far as gear surfaces, seals and bearings are concerned?
I was just wondering if there is possibly a long (or medium) term downside to using GMS-FM.
RoadRage: Do you have any thoughts or experience on this matter?
Thank you,
TL-Rocket
Since we all acknowledge the benefits of GMS-FM as far as shifting smoothness goes, what's the verdict on GMS-FM's lubricating abilities as far as gear surfaces, seals and bearings are concerned?
I was just wondering if there is possibly a long (or medium) term downside to using GMS-FM.
RoadRage: Do you have any thoughts or experience on this matter?
Thank you,
TL-Rocket
05-22-2005, 09:35 PM
#68
Moderator
TL-Rocket,
Shouldn't be a concern. Honda MTF shears down quite badly, so its ending viscosity is probably a 20wt motor oil anyway. The GMSFM I believe is a high 20wt motor oil, correct me if I'm wrong.
Michael
Shouldn't be a concern. Honda MTF shears down quite badly, so its ending viscosity is probably a 20wt motor oil anyway. The GMSFM I believe is a high 20wt motor oil, correct me if I'm wrong.
Michael
06-28-2005, 04:36 PM
#69
Cruisin'
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Consquences of using GM-SFM or Redline in 6-sp MT
The 6-speed Acura transaxle incorporates a "limited-slip" differential, which utilizes wet clutch disks. GM-SFM and Redline transmission oils are intended for transmission cases, NOT containing clutch disks. Higher viscosity lubricants or "slicker" oils may in fact cause these clutch plates to "slip" when called on to lock the axle and transfer power to the wheel with more traction. I would also suspect this would cause the clutch plates to wear considerably faster. Bottom line is you will probably be compromising your limited-slip performance short term, and perhaps all of it ability long term (if the clutch disks burn out).
I have nothing to back this up with other than common-sense, and 50+ years of experience with automotive mechanics.
I have nothing to back this up with other than common-sense, and 50+ years of experience with automotive mechanics.
06-28-2005, 05:00 PM
#70
Shift_faster
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Originally Posted by trshaner
The 6-speed Acura transaxle incorporates a "limited-slip" differential, which utilizes wet clutch disks. GM-SFM and Redline transmission oils are intended for transmission cases, NOT containing clutch disks. Higher viscosity lubricants or "slicker" oils may in fact cause these clutch plates to "slip" when called on to lock the axle and transfer power to the wheel with more traction. I would also suspect this would cause the clutch plates to wear considerably faster. Bottom line is you will probably be compromising your limited-slip performance short term, and perhaps all of it ability long term (if the clutch disks burn out).
I have nothing to back this up with other than common-sense, and 50+ years of experience with automotive mechanics.
I have nothing to back this up with other than common-sense, and 50+ years of experience with automotive mechanics.
06-28-2005, 10:40 PM
#72
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Originally Posted by Burgman
Car uses a torsen limited slip with worm gears instead of clutchs for operation.
06-29-2005, 08:11 AM
#73
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That's good to know
You are correct, the Acura CL & 3G TL use a Torsen type helical-gear linited slip differential mechanism. That's good to know. The only other issue I can think of is to be sure the gar lube is intended for use with non-ferrous yellow metal/carbon fiber parts (i.e. synchros). I believe both GM-SFM and Redline transmission lubes are stated to be safe and compatible with "yellow metals."
Thanks for getting me up to date with clutch-less LSDs.
Thanks for getting me up to date with clutch-less LSDs.
06-29-2005, 08:46 AM
#74
Last week I changed my Manual Transmission fluid with the GM-FM product mentioned by RR and Deandorsey. I couldn't be happier with the results. It really changed the whole "feel" of my transmission. The shifts are super smooth and silky with absolutely no effort required to get the gears to engage. Before, it was OK, but now it's as good as it gets. Make sure you get the "FM" fluid. GM makes several types of Synchromesh Fluid, and some of the parts people aren't aware of the FM stuff. When I went to the Chevy Dealership, the parts guy kept telling me it wasn't available. After looking in the parts catalogue, he found 11qts. in stock. When he looked at the bottle, he said he'd never seen it before....and he was the #1 parts guy. Buyer beware....they might try and sell you the regular GM Synchromesh fluid. The correct part number is: # 12377916.
You're gonna love this stuff. I wasn't sure if it was going to make all that much difference, but it did. It's like I've got a new transmission...it's THAT GOOD!!
You're gonna love this stuff. I wasn't sure if it was going to make all that much difference, but it did. It's like I've got a new transmission...it's THAT GOOD!!
06-29-2005, 10:06 AM
#75
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by JetJock
When he looked at the bottle, he said he'd never seen it before....and he was the #1 parts guy.
haha that happens a lot to me----having to explain to the "experts"...thats why this board is great.....
06-29-2005, 10:35 AM
#76
Head a da Family
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Originally Posted by Burgman
Car uses a torsen limited slip with worm gears instead of clutchs for operation.
"TORTION BARBERS FOR THE SUPERSPENSION"
06-29-2005, 05:50 PM
#77
Moderator
Originally Posted by trshaner
The 6-speed Acura transaxle incorporates a "limited-slip" differential, which utilizes wet clutch disks. GM-SFM and Redline transmission oils are intended for transmission cases, NOT containing clutch disks. Higher viscosity lubricants or "slicker" oils may in fact cause these clutch plates to "slip" when called on to lock the axle and transfer power to the wheel with more traction. I would also suspect this would cause the clutch plates to wear considerably faster. Bottom line is you will probably be compromising your limited-slip performance short term, and perhaps all of it ability long term (if the clutch disks burn out).
I have nothing to back this up with other than common-sense, and 50+ years of experience with automotive mechanics.
I have nothing to back this up with other than common-sense, and 50+ years of experience with automotive mechanics.
Michael
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