Obsessed

New to the group and looking for some opinions. My wife and are looking at buying a new TL perhaps this week. I have read some stuff about the 6spd manual being a little squirly when running through the gears. I would love to hear some opinions as to whether or not this is a big issue.

What do you manual owners think? Are you happy with the 6spd?

Yakuza70

I'm not entirely sure about the "squirly" part but you might be referring to the torque steer. Because the TL has a lot of torque and it's front wheel drive, there is torque steer but it's not something that you will notice in everyday driving. However, when you accelerate hard, especially in a turn, you'll feel the steering wheel tug to one side. It can be a bit unnerving at first but it's something I've learned to anticipate so it's no big deal to me. I used to have an '02 Maxima 6MT and that had even more torque steer so the TL's seems mild to me.

The gearbox for the 6MT is excellent. I've experienced an occasional notchy feel going to 3rd gear but it's only when the car is cold. Other than that, this is the best manual gearbox I've ever driven - very precise and smooth.

My advice is to go out and test drive one as the performance differences between the auto and manual TL are significant, according to most. However, you might have a hard time even finding a MT TL to find to test drive as they're pretty rare.

Good luck!

Spiritman

Man I LOVE my 6speed MT. You like LSD? It's "THE BEST" Can't get that on the auto. It really can hook you up!! To the tar that is!!

SouthernBoy

I have one of each: an '04 manual (mine) and an 'o5 automatic (the wife's). I have a strong bias in favor of manual transmissions, but in this case, I would advise you to go with the manual if you can see your way clear to it.

The TL has a small, relatively low torque engine, so it needs and responds to a manual transmission to do its job. Drive one and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Brettg

I dont think the wife and I would have got the TL without the manual.
Its a lot of fun.

Brett

subinf

Unless you really dont like driving stick go with the 6spd.

gqchicago

You can fix the torque steer problem after you buy it by replacing your stock rear sway bar with an upgraded Comptech one for $100 you can easily put in yourself. Also, the manual transmission TLs come with Brembo brakes on the front, the manuals do not (expensive and very nice upgrade!).

hades281

Can you elaborate about how a new rear sway bar can eliminate torque steer? I dont understand mechanically how this would work.

HiTEC

There is a 20 page thread on this same topic

jmbnova

There is nothing that compares to the 6MT... they are completely different cars from a driving stand point. The difference is truly amazing. I bought a BRAND NEW 5AT and traded it 6 months later for the EXACT SAME CAR in 6MT... greatest decision I ever made.....

Go with the 6MT... you WILL NOT regret it....

6MTrules

I'm kind of biased, since I never even looked at ANY AT's in any cars this time around when I was purchasing, since this was going to be MY car, and I wouldn't have to share with the wife. I didn't even test drive a TL AT.

I have a sticky 2nd gear when cold sometimes, but when it warms up.... WOOOOO HOOOOOO!

morgan040

I made my wife learn to drive a stick just so we could get the 6mt, it is the only way to go!!! AT suck. You want to drive this car not ride in it.

Subhuman

Got a good laugh out of the wannabe fanboys praising their MT's and ragging on the AT's.
The miniscule difference in performance will not be realized by you wannabe race care drivers.Maybe a professional race driver that does such a thing for a living could convince,but realistically you MT guys are left with a vehicle that you must constantly shift and work for to maintain all the while we AT drivers are merely stepping on a pedal while sipping our Starbucks and smiling at ya
Aaaah the nice smooth shifting luxury feel of this vehicle.Gotta love it.
Personally the TL,even with the suspension upgrades,tire upgrades,brake upgrades,still does not constitute a true sports sedan.It's a compromise any way you look at it.A luxury-sports vs sports luxury sedan.
The transmission type debate is a moot one.
And especially if you live in traffic congested areas where there is a lot stop-n-go traffic the AT is much nicer.Stop light to stop light ... never more than 1 pedal needing to be pushed.Less torque stear to complain about too
Realistically the TL in either MT or AT is already too powerful to put all it's power to the road to begin with.
I'm very happy I chose the AT over the MT.It befits this vehicle more.
And just to pop your bubbles a bit more,I jumped out of an '02 GTI into the TL.My GTI easily took the 3G TL MT much to the dismay of the TL drivers around here..Of course the GTI was modded /w a larger turbo,GIAC chip,CAI,catbacks etc. But hey,my 245 lbs/ft torque was available to me at a mere 1,800 rpm's and flat lined all the way to 7,100 rpm!HP stood at 236 whp.All that out of a tiny 1.8L engine.
A very fun car to drive as it weighed in almost 500 lbs less than a TL.Point is,you guys claiming the MT is faster than a AT TL is a joke.It's a so miniscule.We're talking the same engine with merely diff. trannies. BFD.If you wanted a sports car or a race car you shoulda bought one,but please resist trying to convince folks that an MT TL is a sports car and so much faster than the AT version.It isn't!
The only ting anyone should really consider when deciding wich version to get is "do I wanna have to constantly be forced to shift gears or cruise in comfort and having a hand and a foot free for whatever"

Spiritman

It was a choice I made back in 1967. I will NOT buy a car with an auto unless I had too. Thanks for pointing out why......

clsdave

Your perspective seems to be askew comparing a highly modified turbo coupe to probably stock sedans. Is it because you had a 5MT in the GTI and you were racing 5AT TL's that makes it a good comparison? It doesn't make much sense to me.

The 6MT TL with LSD and lower and close gear ratios are significantly different compared to the 5AT drive train. If some one was undecided about which transmission to get I would suggest taking each for a test drive. Both are great cars but they drive very different. They might like one and dislike the other. It's nice Acura gave it's customers a choice of transmission in a sedan.

I'm wondering why you got rid of the Golf?

subinf

But our tranny gives us those big ass brembos and a fatter rear sway bar. and the fun to drive is always a plus.

I bet that GTI was fun to beat the shit out of

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

I couldnt see doing all that shifting and talking with clients, ect ... so I went with the Automatic. If it was just a toy I didnt use for everyday driver...I would have went manual. This really all depends upon your application and how it meshes with your everyday life, ect. I also have always enjoyed a challenge...and people tend to state that automatics are dogs, ect. so I really enjoy trying to rise to the challenge for us Automatic guys? Supercharger soon....then should really be rocking!

hondafan

I can't disagree with you more. The TL is a very capable sports sedan especially with the 6MT A-spec suspension and a set of sticky 255/40/18 tires the car is outstanding.

My last car was a Honda s2000 and the TL is just as good as the S in many situations. Obviously you can't toss the TL around like the S on an auto X course but on a road course or a nice twistie road the TL shines and can keep up with many of the best sport sedans.

To bad you have to deal with all that traffic.

A nicely matched manual and a good driver will always kill an auto in the twisties and I'm pretty sure if you want to try and keep up you won't be sipping any coffee.

Subhuman

Is it because you had a 5MT in the GTI and you were racing 5AT TL's that makes it a good comparison?

I said MT TL's not AT's(wich I've also gone up against)


I'm wondering why you got rid of the Golf?[/QUOTE]

I got tired of it.Simple.Tired of constantly having to shift.And believe me,the GTI had enough to torque to be really shift lazy.The TL is foremmost the LUXURY part of luzury sport sedan,not a SPORT luxury sedan.No matter what it's a FWD vehicle wich will never be a true sports sedan nor sports car.]

Subhuman

It's still a LUXURY-sports 4 door front wheel drive sedan.That aside,I'm assuming you are a professional race car driver with experience and are racing most of the time on race tracks? What,no? So what's your point then?Unless you are a professional race driver on a closed course then the whole debate is moot.The Infinti M-35 and various BMW's are more the SPORT-luxury vehicle,the emphasis on SPORTS.The TL lays emphasis on luxury,not sport and since it's FWD to begin with,it will never achieve the SPORTS category for merely that reason alone.

hondafan

Have you ever driven an MT A-spec? My guess is no, otherwise you'd probably not have your opinion.

As a matter a fact I do have a nice loop, at my doorstep, that I take every day that is complete with high speed, low speed turns, switchbacks and lots of elevation change. It's Sort of like having Laguna Seca in my back yard. Granted it is not a closed course but rarley am I at the limit and I don't drive carlessly. Every day that I make the run it brings a smile to my face and I know for a fact the auto with the stock suspension would be left in the dust and perform just like my old AT V6 Accord did.

There is a difference and it is a much bigger difference than you perceive it to be. However if you are a big city dweller don't waste your money on the suspension or your energy changing gears. The auto is probably your best bet, but if traffic is of little concern and you've got a place to run, there really is no comparison, get a MT for sure.

Subhuman

I did in fact test drive 2 MT's and the diff. is negligable between the 2.I have the A-Spec suspension and CT RSB on my AT.Handles fantastic,probably better than your stock suspension,stock sway bar MT does.Hence it's a moot debate.
You wanna talk fast & nimble .. my GTI was
Nowadays when I wanna get real speed frills it's my Kawi ZX-11
Stop trying to paint your MT's as some sorta freeken sports car.It's a freeken TL,merely with a manually shifted transmission.That does NOT make it a sports car nor does it make it some big deal faster than an AT TL.Get a grip.

ttliang

i guess a stock TL is slower than a heavily modded GTI therefore we HAVE to buy AT and be submissive. sorry i didn't know that when i got the car. for people already bot 6mt, anytime the car brings smile to your face, remember to hail GTI 3 times and say i am such a phony. in fact, any cars that's slower than a GTI shouldn't even bother with MT. that's just too rice. any FWD cars....please get real unless it's a GTI modded. BMW 530 shouldn't bother with MT cuz it's slow as grandma. shoot anything that's slower than F1s shouldn't even bother with MT cuz it's not "as fun, fast or nimble as F1s" therefore just "sports" car wannabe.


last time i checked they sell 6MT and 5AT exactly the same price. maybe the 6mt is slower than 5at....(so not). at least i get more stuff with the same $$$. lol.


Ok seriously to the poster. get the 6mt imo. u should try both to see which one YOU like better. i know there's a member traded in his 5AT for 6mt and vice versa.

uwccpan

With TL, u gotta get 6MT no questions!

Subhuman

Wise words from the mature and illiterate

Subhuman

Here are a few quotes from those that test drive the all the vehicles.

Dan Jedlicka from MSN Auto's:

"Cons:
Not a true sports sedan "


"New Manual Transmission
The manual transmission is a first for the TL. It's a close-ratio unit and is accompanied by a firmer suspension, upgraded brakes, limited-slip differential and higher-performance tires.

However, the automatic transmission is more appropriate for the luxury oriented TL. This isn't a genuine sports sedan because its front-wheel-drive layout makes it nose-heavy, with 61.4 percent of its weight up front.

The TL thus lacks the more even weight distribution and balance of a genuine sports sedan such as a rear-wheel-drive BMW. The redesigned chassis and all-independent suspension can't overcome the excessive front weight, which causes front tires to cope with too much handling and braking chores."

And his counterpart also from MSN Auto's:

"Cons:
Starting price is higher by at least $2,000 over old model
Still front-drive platform
No S-Type anymore "

"Not a rear-wheel-drive performance sedan
The TL's ride was less noisy and busy in the five-speed automatic than in the sportier six-speed version that has different stabilizer bars. The performance tires on the six-speed model add extra road noise, too."
Driving enthusiasts, putting the TL through its paces, will notice this is no rear-driver. "

from Edmunds.com:

"Although we found it to be an easy car to drive aggressively, we're not ready to call it an equal of the 3 or 5 Series, A4 or G35 in terms of handling. The Acura's front-drive layout is limiting from an enthusiast's point of view, but even less serious drivers are apt to notice that the TL floats and bobs over the occasional bump."

For the above reasons I and many others have opted for the AT transmission.If I had wanted a true sports sedan I would have chosen a RWD vehicle,because even an A-Spec suspendd MT TL can't convince the true sports sedan segment.
Simple as that.I think the automatic transmission befits this vehicle best.

Subhuman

Some more from Car & Driver magazine:

"The limited slip does its job distributing power to the front tire with more grip, but with 238 pound-feet of torque on tap, there's no masking that the torque plays an unwanted role in the steering, especially now, with the direct connection via the six-speed gearbox. If anything, the limited slip exacerbates the existing torque steer, pulling on the wheel as if each pound-foot were a G.I. Joe action figure in a tug of war. On the plus side, as long as you're conscious of this trait, accelerating out of turns is surprisingly fast, although a bit nerve-racking. A jaunt in a TL with an automatic revealed far less torque steer, thanks to the torque converter that smoothes out the power relay and the lack of a tugging limited-slip. We're usually not ones to say stuff like this, but the automatic is arguably the more fitting transmission for the TL's lofty power numbers.

The brakes, with vicelike Brembos up front, are strong-like-bull, although the 189-foot stopping distance from 70 mph doesn't exactly back up that result."

"But there's a catch: 270 horsepower plus the limited-slip diff that goes with the six-speed manual produce more than a little torque reaction. It's only the limited slip doing its job, but that knowledge doesn't seem to soften the response of most who experience it. "

"And that tight, no-nonsense six-speed shifter is a gem, too. For some ungodly reason, though, the TL has picked up a wicked front limited-slip differential that produces unruly torque steer—even in third gear."

Brettg

When we test drove both the 6MT and the auto, the wife and I both noticed a dramatic difference between the cars. We test drove a number of cars at different dealers, and both of us found the 6MT to be much quieter, smoother, and much more fun. I think even a boob in a 6MT can take an auto trans car, as the manual
TL has a lower gear ratio, another gear, is lighter, and has the LSD, and gets rated 3/4 of a second faster 0-60 mph.
Even if you dont care about that (we dont), the 6MT can be driven so its much
quieter and smoother than the auto trans cars are, as YOU control the shifting.
In the auto trans cars, they tend to downshift with larger throttle openings,
but you can shift at 3000 rpm in the manual and zoom right along, even full throttle at 3000 rpm, no downshift with the motor spinning 5000 rpm.

Not that we are race car drivers, but its FUN to shift, and its GREAT that you CANT
be drinking coffee, talking on the phone, eating while driving, you pay attention
to what is going on much more with a manual.
Want to zone out and chat on the phone, etc, get the auto trans.

Some auto trans TL's do seem to have a problem with vibrations at some speeds,
I dont think the TSB has corrected the problem totaly.

On the other hand, the 6MT has got to be one of the hardest cars to shift really smooth, the silent motor, the low torque off idle, it takes some getting used to.

If we had to get an auto trans car, I think it would have been something more luxury oriented, with a supple ride and more luxury gizmos.

I think the TL is the biggest nicest 4 door sedan you can get with a manual, that is why we got it.
The accord now comes with the 6MT I hear, but we like the TL style better.

Brett

hondafan

Exuse me but I don't have the stock suspension and tires can make or break how a car handles. I can see I'm not going to change your opinion but I will continue to disagree with you, as I believe my setup is far superior to the stock setup and provides enough laterial g's to compete with the big boys.

If I wanted fast and nimble I'd never buy VW as they continuely prove to be a reliabilty nightmare. I think my s2000 certainly filled the bill.

End of story!

hondafan

Brett could not agree with you more. After test driving the auto which I took out first I actually thought to myself do I really want to purchase this car? Not really. If Acura only made AT TL's I'm 100% positive I would not have purchased. I then jumped in the MT and was in it no less than 5 minutes when we turned around and headed back to the dealer to pick out a color.

Brettg

I dont want to dog the auto trans cars, they are fine cars, they would just not be our fist pick for what we wanted the car to do.
If I was into sport, the 6MT would not be a choice, nor would the auto trans TL be my choice for luxury. The wife swings between a sports car, and a grandma car, I want quiet and smooth, reliability, and fun is also nice.

If we went the luxury route, the lucern, the ford 500, or the Jaguar S type would be on the list to test drive, along with the lexus 430 and toyota avalon.
Even the lacross would get a look.

For sport, not sure about what we would look at, but it would be rear wheel drive.

I was very lucky the TL comes in the 6MT, otherwise the wife would have held out for the luxury boat, she likes manual transmissions, and has always gotten manuals if they were avalable in the car she wanted, and that tiped the TL over the edge.
So I might have been driving the lucern with the 6 cylinder, and that would really suck. As it is, I hope to keep the TL 10 years, by that time I may be ready for the boat ( I wil be almost 60 years old).

Brett

hondafan

Have you guys forgot about this:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=racecar

There is plenty of sport int the TL! Sure it is not rear wheel drive, but all that means is you have to drive it differently. I've been driving front wheel drive cars for years and realize they ar prone to understeer, but it can be dialed out to promote a more neutral handling car. Just because the TL is front wheel drive does not mean it can not be tuned to be a very fine SPORTS sedan.

I really don't think there is a whole lot of luxury in the TL, but I guess that is just me.

subinf

I gotta go with MichaelBenz on this one, you choose the car that suits you best. He drives clients around so the auto is better suited for that. The "fun factor" definetly influenced my decision to get a manual, not to mention the brembos. The torque steer isnt an issue for me, probably because I've gotten used to it, but its easily avoidable.

1gokart

I would have to agree on some of Subhuman points. I also debated on getting a MT or AT but decided on the MT because I wanted the Brembos not because it was faster than the AT. If you live in the city and you have to constantly have to shift then I will say go with the AT, but if shifting is not a major pain in the A then go for the MT. I read a lot of articles on the TL before buying and quite a few will suggest the AT due to the torque steer problem. They say the AT actually is best to control that problem. It's a personal preference that you have to drive to understand. The 6-speed does make you feel like you have more control but I'm not a race car driver. I will never take this car to the track to find out how it fully bennifits but I like playing with the shifter

Wid-TL

Haven't had a MT since the old 5.0 days, and I really missed it. I love this thing! And I commute to Philly and NYC often, but the clutching in traffic never really bothers me. Becomes second nature.

If and When the HFL decides to work, it makes talking to clients effortless. Now when it fails and I have to hold the phone and shift - that's another story!

Got a 5AT loaner once, and it was impressive, but the 6MT was my choice - and no regrets so far!

ttliang

my last phone had all sorts of problems with the HFL. they said it's the software on the phone. i had it and got a new phone V557. and sure enough it's working like a champion now.

Wid-TL

Thanks.. maybe I will try software reinstall... it's a company Blackberry 7250, so I'm stuck with it for now....

SouthernBoy

Clearly Subhuman has a very strong bias in favor of automatic transmissions for cars such as the TL.. and that's fine. Many of us, and I am certainly one of these, would never even consider the purchase of a car with an automatic transmission for our personal driving machine. It's not that we're purists or wannabe boy racers as some might suggest (I have to wonder where they come up with that). Personally, I love manual transmisssions and everything about them. The driving experience with a manual, for me, is far more satisfying that with an automatic. Always has been.. always will be. But that's just me.

We can all make all the arguments and points we want about the benefits of one type over the other, but we'll never convince diehards (yes, me) that a change is in order to our preferences because of this reason or that. Really the bottom line is what YOU want and what makes YOU happy.

The TL is not a race car, but then again neither is a BMW or a CTS-V or a Corvette or even a Porsche. These are street machines. Certainly they all can be turned into racing machines, but really that's not the point here. The real issue is, again, what the buyer wants and to hell with everyone else.

Now I could argue until I'm blue in the face about the economic advantages of a manual transmission.. about how they last much longer and require far less maintenance. But that means nothing to the person who prefers an automatic transmission and you know something? That's just how it should be.

I would most strongly advise Obsessed to try to test drive a manual (since he's already done so with an automatic) and let HIM see what HE thinks. Really, if he's undecided, a test of both is in order.

Silver Bullet

HERE!!! HERE!!!! I second everything that Brett said!
I ordered a AT and test drove a 6MT after I ordered the AT. They had a 6MT that was sitting on the showroom floor (SSM btw). It took me no more than driving 1 mile and I was hooked and grinning from ear to ear. My next statement after saying I like the 6MT was, "I'll take this one!" The dealer was cool with that and I drove out that day with my car. (see my avitar)

1 week later I had the A-Spec installed. So, add an A-Spec package (handling) with the smooth faster 6MT and you have one sweet ride!

Brettg

My first test drive of the manual TL was also a big surprise, and I dont think I made it much more then 1 mile before I was thinking I had to have the car.
I got it on the hiway and it was fast and smooth.

Still, 99% of the TL's I see around are auto trans cars, so far I have seen 2 other
6MT TL's.
I suspect the 6MT owners are more vocal and get on the acurazine in much higher percetages then in real life.

Brett