The 3G Ramblings & General Discussion Thread (Trois)
07-19-2015, 06:28 PM
Team Owner
While I still seriously doubt that the RL calipers are going to catastrophically alter the bias (again, I stand by what I said, plenty of people have run them and have been very happy), Ill take into account what IHC has pointed out and likely go the Stoptech touring route instead - I'm sure someone will pick up the calipers off me. My other (bigger?) concern is the potential headache of the 350z rotors not fitting at this point.
You can get away with a little difference from stock. I don't mean to sound like a few percent will cause you to die in a horrible crash.
The one thing that's not certain is how far the EBFD can adjust. Certainly there's some learning going on. If you go through with the project, I would not add a prop valve. I know the EBFD needs stops that are on the edge of traction but without ABS fully engaging to learn. It might have enough of a range to compensate.
I don't want to ruin your project. If you can get the piston sizes, we can plug them into the calculator along with rotor size. Sometimes an OEM will use the same piston area in all of their calipers from a single to a 4 piston setup, the TL Brembo vs base is a good example of two drastically different calipers having about the same area. I might already have this info, I did the calculations once.
It might be little enough that you can use a less aggressive pad in the rear and more aggressive up front. The penalties aren't as big with ABS equipped cars as with older cars. Plus they're on the rear and not the front so it's not that bad.
I'll never forget going with a super aggressive set of rear shoes on my car so the brakes could hold it back better when power braking. It would lock up and go sideways under completely normal stops. This lasted for 2 days before I pulled them off. At least with the TL the ABS is there to save you.
07-19-2015, 06:32 PM
Team Owner
One of those honest before and after comparisons hurt my feelings after upgrading to the Rotora BBK. The car stopped quicker from triple digit speeds but from lower speeds it stopped shorter with the stock brakes. I think the better stopping from triple digit speeds was only because of the greater pedal feel and not wanting to hit full ABS.
The following 2 users liked this post by I hate cars:
rockstar143 (07-20-2015),
TacoBello (07-19-2015)
07-19-2015, 06:39 PM
Confusing Name Guy
Do you know the piston sizes of the RL and stock calipers? If the piston area is the same you're good.
You can get away with a little difference from stock. I don't mean to sound like a few percent will cause you to die in a horrible crash.
The one thing that's not certain is how far the EBFD can adjust. Certainly there's some learning going on. If you go through with the project, I would not add a prop valve. I know the EBFD needs stops that are on the edge of traction but without ABS fully engaging to learn. It might have enough of a range to compensate.
I don't want to ruin your project. If you can get the piston sizes, we can plug them into the calculator along with rotor size. Sometimes an OEM will use the same piston area in all of their calipers from a single to a 4 piston setup, the TL Brembo vs base is a good example of two drastically different calipers having about the same area. I might already have this info, I did the calculations once.
It might be little enough that you can use a less aggressive pad in the rear and more aggressive up front. The penalties aren't as big with ABS equipped cars as with older cars. Plus they're on the rear and not the front so it's not that bad.
I'll never forget going with a super aggressive set of rear shoes on my car so the brakes could hold it back better when power braking. It would lock up and go sideways under completely normal stops. This lasted for 2 days before I pulled them off. At least with the TL the ABS is there to save you.
You can get away with a little difference from stock. I don't mean to sound like a few percent will cause you to die in a horrible crash.
The one thing that's not certain is how far the EBFD can adjust. Certainly there's some learning going on. If you go through with the project, I would not add a prop valve. I know the EBFD needs stops that are on the edge of traction but without ABS fully engaging to learn. It might have enough of a range to compensate.
I don't want to ruin your project. If you can get the piston sizes, we can plug them into the calculator along with rotor size. Sometimes an OEM will use the same piston area in all of their calipers from a single to a 4 piston setup, the TL Brembo vs base is a good example of two drastically different calipers having about the same area. I might already have this info, I did the calculations once.
It might be little enough that you can use a less aggressive pad in the rear and more aggressive up front. The penalties aren't as big with ABS equipped cars as with older cars. Plus they're on the rear and not the front so it's not that bad.
I'll never forget going with a super aggressive set of rear shoes on my car so the brakes could hold it back better when power braking. It would lock up and go sideways under completely normal stops. This lasted for 2 days before I pulled them off. At least with the TL the ABS is there to save you.
I will try and find the piston sizes today and see if I can get something figured out. I actually gave some thought to changing the TL's master cylinder to the RL master cylinder so that the correct line pressure could be applied - the two cars do use the same rear calipers, and I believe the rear rotor sizes are similar, and from what I understand of ABS, it isn't actually tied into the hydraulics of the brake system but rather just senses the wheel speed. I also (obviously) realized after some further reading that a prop valve with ABS / EBFD equipped modern cars is a no no as it won't truly change brake bias the way its supposed to.
When you meant "little enough" in regards to the pads, did you mean it would actually be feasible that an aggressive compound pad in the rear would balance the now larger clamping force in front? I.e, EBC redstuff or similar aggressive pads in the rear and an OEM pad in the front?
As for what I'm trying to achieve with the upgrade, well, decreased brake fade. I'm aware that it won't net me decreased stopping distances. I try to use ABS as little as possible as I find it more detrimental than anything else (also one of the major reasons I drive with VSA and TCS off 100% of the time.)
07-19-2015, 07:31 PM
Confusing Name Guy
Also disregard what I said in regards to the RL having a similar rear disc, thats prior to the 2nd gen RL, which does in fact have 16 mm thick vented rotors in the rear, which are sizeable (12.2 inches) bigger than the TL.
07-19-2015, 10:13 PM
Team Owner
I'm sorry, but there is just NOT enough salad tossing going on here.
Shiiiet, if I wanted to learn something, I'd go hang out in Problems and Fixes
Shiiiet, if I wanted to learn something, I'd go hang out in Problems and Fixes
07-19-2015, 10:30 PM
Confusing Name Guy
Matt,
The RL master cylinder/brake booster should be interchangeable with the TL one - same bolt pattern etc. (and by bolt pattern I mean the bolts on the booster plate to mounting location on the car)
Both have an integrated prop valves for front and rear brakes. With the valves being pre-set for stock brakes, I'd imagine the RL master cylinder/brake booster would actually send more line pressure to the rear on the RL since it has larger rotors in the back than the TL. The calipers between the two cars look identical (although I can't confirm this with part numbers).
Any thoughts on this? I mean you can buy the entire master cylinder/brake booster assembly for the RL for a mere 80 bucks off ebay. From what I saw with the RSX crowd upgrading to the DC5 (6MT/Type S brembos) they would upgrade their MC/Booster to the RSX-S or even the TL one, so I don't see why the same wouldn't apply here, beyond the rear brakes being off in this case, something I could potentially solve with larger vented rotors.
The RL master cylinder/brake booster should be interchangeable with the TL one - same bolt pattern etc. (and by bolt pattern I mean the bolts on the booster plate to mounting location on the car)
Both have an integrated prop valves for front and rear brakes. With the valves being pre-set for stock brakes, I'd imagine the RL master cylinder/brake booster would actually send more line pressure to the rear on the RL since it has larger rotors in the back than the TL. The calipers between the two cars look identical (although I can't confirm this with part numbers).
Any thoughts on this? I mean you can buy the entire master cylinder/brake booster assembly for the RL for a mere 80 bucks off ebay. From what I saw with the RSX crowd upgrading to the DC5 (6MT/Type S brembos) they would upgrade their MC/Booster to the RSX-S or even the TL one, so I don't see why the same wouldn't apply here, beyond the rear brakes being off in this case, something I could potentially solve with larger vented rotors.
07-20-2015, 06:36 AM
steet and track dedicated set of pads
stainless lines
high temp performance fluid
goodbye fade, I'm almost certain.
but lesbianas. You're after the bling!
and who can blame you.
Good morning everyone!
Happy Monday!
stainless lines
high temp performance fluid
goodbye fade, I'm almost certain.
but lesbianas. You're after the bling!
and who can blame you.
Good morning everyone!
Happy Monday!
07-20-2015, 07:38 AM
lesbehonest, here...
The following users liked this post:
TacoBello (07-20-2015)
07-20-2015, 07:45 AM
Confusing Name Guy
I've got the calipers and bracket already, might as well see if I can make it work / try it out.
Also fun fact, the 6MT TL and 5AT TL share the same brake master cylinder and booster (checked this last night). What's more, the piston surface area between the TL brembos and 5AT is the same I believe, which is interesting because the brembos use larger rotors, perhaps leading to more front brake bias (obviously not as drastic as the transition to the RL rotors, but again, food for thought)
07-20-2015, 07:55 AM
^honda says the automatic brakes stop shorter than the brembos by 1 foot.
I suspect the larger rotors with the brembos act as a heatsink to rid away heat faster, afterall isnt that the whole point of brembos...to prevent brake fade?
I suspect the larger rotors with the brembos act as a heatsink to rid away heat faster, afterall isnt that the whole point of brembos...to prevent brake fade?
07-20-2015, 08:05 AM
Confusing Name Guy
I have 0 doubts that the RL calipers ARE going to be slightly detrimental to stopping distance. Again, not too worried about this. Like Jeremy so aptly put it - as a renown lesbian, I'm after the bling. Oh and reduced brake fade. Yeah, totally
There are definitely additional options here to make the swap more viable as an actual performance mod. I think the master cylinder swap for example is intriguing because it shouldn't affect the ABS / EBFD system seeing as they work off of the wheel sensors themselves to determine when the inline ABS solenoids need to work.
I should say that seeing as sticky tires are the #1 thing needed for reduced braking distances, I've got Conti DWs which I'm extremely happy with, and will probably be getting new winter shoes (open to suggestions, the Yokohamas I bought last season are AWFUL), so I'm sure I've already got reduced braking distance from factory.
Last edited by N1h1l1ty; 07-20-2015 at 08:08 AM.
07-20-2015, 08:44 AM
We're splitting hairs here...
and after all, this is ramblings!
Cawk. Ballz.
and after all, this is ramblings!
Cawk. Ballz.
07-20-2015, 10:40 AM
Shitter in the shitter
07-20-2015, 10:41 AM
I got my tat last night, says lick here on my ass.....
Although, mah dude told me some stories about people getting tats, on their ass.
Although, mah dude told me some stories about people getting tats, on their ass.
07-20-2015, 10:49 AM
Team Owner
Wtf. It was supposed to say "insert here"!!
07-20-2015, 10:50 AM
Team Owner
How was the weekend, y'all?
07-20-2015, 10:55 AM
07-20-2015, 11:00 AM
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Dirty H-Town, Amerikkka
Posts: 28,432
Received 7,772 Likes
on
5,045 Posts
I was up late on Saturday studying. So naturally, to unwind a little, I was chugging Monster Energy (lo-carb because mah figure) and vodkas.
Sort of blacked out and when I woke up on Sunday, the bills on all my hats had been ironed flat and there was a Papa Roach CD stuck in the toaster.
Sunday was hot and humid AF but spent time at the park and went to the pool with the fams. I think I cooked my brain and my eyes burn today.
Sort of blacked out and when I woke up on Sunday, the bills on all my hats had been ironed flat and there was a Papa Roach CD stuck in the toaster.
Sunday was hot and humid AF but spent time at the park and went to the pool with the fams. I think I cooked my brain and my eyes burn today.
The following 2 users liked this post by cu2wagon:
rockstar143 (07-20-2015),
TacoBello (07-20-2015)
07-20-2015, 11:04 AM
Team Owner
Why do I have a sneaking suspicion Jon has never even opened up any tuning software before in his life?
F&F has made the term "tuner" apply to errrbody
07-20-2015, 11:06 AM
Team Owner
I didn't do much this weekend. Had brunch with fam yesterday. Went to the dog park also for a few hours to tire the pupster out.
Weekend was slow due to Wifey putting her back out. Fuck, who knew she couldn't lift that fridge into the basement all by herself. It was definitely lighter than when I made her lug that 6.2L V8 around.
Weekend was slow due to Wifey putting her back out. Fuck, who knew she couldn't lift that fridge into the basement all by herself. It was definitely lighter than when I made her lug that 6.2L V8 around.
07-20-2015, 11:12 AM
Senior Moderator
Morning all.
07-20-2015, 11:23 AM
Henry.
07-20-2015, 11:26 AM
Team Owner
Cu2, uh, I mean, Earnest, your responses in the RLX section are priceless
Like this gem: https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...-proof-933814/
Like this gem: https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...-proof-933814/
The following users liked this post:
cu2wagon (07-20-2015)
07-20-2015, 11:31 AM
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Thread Starter
Only you could love and appreciate something so small..
It's all good Matt, I know you mean well
I will try and find the piston sizes today and see if I can get something figured out. I actually gave some thought to changing the TL's master cylinder to the RL master cylinder so that the correct line pressure could be applied - the two cars do use the same rear calipers, and I believe the rear rotor sizes are similar, and from what I understand of ABS, it isn't actually tied into the hydraulics of the brake system but rather just senses the wheel speed. I also (obviously) realized after some further reading that a prop valve with ABS / EBFD equipped modern cars is a no no as it won't truly change brake bias the way its supposed to.
When you meant "little enough" in regards to the pads, did you mean it would actually be feasible that an aggressive compound pad in the rear would balance the now larger clamping force in front? I.e, EBC redstuff or similar aggressive pads in the rear and an OEM pad in the front?
As for what I'm trying to achieve with the upgrade, well, decreased brake fade. I'm aware that it won't net me decreased stopping distances. I try to use ABS as little as possible as I find it more detrimental than anything else (also one of the major reasons I drive with VSA and TCS off 100% of the time.)
I will try and find the piston sizes today and see if I can get something figured out. I actually gave some thought to changing the TL's master cylinder to the RL master cylinder so that the correct line pressure could be applied - the two cars do use the same rear calipers, and I believe the rear rotor sizes are similar, and from what I understand of ABS, it isn't actually tied into the hydraulics of the brake system but rather just senses the wheel speed. I also (obviously) realized after some further reading that a prop valve with ABS / EBFD equipped modern cars is a no no as it won't truly change brake bias the way its supposed to.
When you meant "little enough" in regards to the pads, did you mean it would actually be feasible that an aggressive compound pad in the rear would balance the now larger clamping force in front? I.e, EBC redstuff or similar aggressive pads in the rear and an OEM pad in the front?
As for what I'm trying to achieve with the upgrade, well, decreased brake fade. I'm aware that it won't net me decreased stopping distances. I try to use ABS as little as possible as I find it more detrimental than anything else (also one of the major reasons I drive with VSA and TCS off 100% of the time.)
Okay.. just catching up on some bullshit.. Please go back to your build thread. K, thanks.
Matt,
The RL master cylinder/brake booster should be interchangeable with the TL one - same bolt pattern etc. (and by bolt pattern I mean the bolts on the booster plate to mounting location on the car)
Both have an integrated prop valves for front and rear brakes. With the valves being pre-set for stock brakes, I'd imagine the RL master cylinder/brake booster would actually send more line pressure to the rear on the RL since it has larger rotors in the back than the TL. The calipers between the two cars look identical (although I can't confirm this with part numbers).
Any thoughts on this? I mean you can buy the entire master cylinder/brake booster assembly for the RL for a mere 80 bucks off ebay. From what I saw with the RSX crowd upgrading to the DC5 (6MT/Type S brembos) they would upgrade their MC/Booster to the RSX-S or even the TL one, so I don't see why the same wouldn't apply here, beyond the rear brakes being off in this case, something I could potentially solve with larger vented rotors.
The RL master cylinder/brake booster should be interchangeable with the TL one - same bolt pattern etc. (and by bolt pattern I mean the bolts on the booster plate to mounting location on the car)
Both have an integrated prop valves for front and rear brakes. With the valves being pre-set for stock brakes, I'd imagine the RL master cylinder/brake booster would actually send more line pressure to the rear on the RL since it has larger rotors in the back than the TL. The calipers between the two cars look identical (although I can't confirm this with part numbers).
Any thoughts on this? I mean you can buy the entire master cylinder/brake booster assembly for the RL for a mere 80 bucks off ebay. From what I saw with the RSX crowd upgrading to the DC5 (6MT/Type S brembos) they would upgrade their MC/Booster to the RSX-S or even the TL one, so I don't see why the same wouldn't apply here, beyond the rear brakes being off in this case, something I could potentially solve with larger vented rotors.
Next time you pull up to the bumper and see Majofo's name tattooed on that ass.. know that I have ruined it for all thereafter. Continue your journey in anether region.
07-20-2015, 11:49 AM
It's above average! 
07-20-2015, 11:49 AM
average is 2 inches, right? 
07-20-2015, 11:50 AM
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Thread Starter
You wish you had 2 inches
07-20-2015, 12:06 PM
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Thread Starter
washed the V yesterday.. she's such a dirty bitch. I also put her on ramps for the first time. I think I'll build custom ramps for her. It was a little hairy.. like landing strip hairy, except the patch of hair was super dense, coarse, and unwieldy.
07-20-2015, 12:09 PM
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Thread Starter
I ususally take the car to a touchless wash for a rinse and dry before a fine wash at home (try to knock off most of the bird shit and road dust). This will be the first and last time I do that with the V.. I heard the roof buckle under the hair dryers.. luckily it flexed back on it's own. 
07-20-2015, 12:16 PM
GM's cost cutting at its finest.
07-20-2015, 12:18 PM
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Thread Starter
butt buttt I haz real carbon fiber in the interior!!!
07-20-2015, 12:20 PM
That's the universe telling you you need a convertible. 
Clean V, huh? You put plastidip the grill and throw them (D's) 22's on it yet?
Clean V, huh? You put plastidip the grill and throw them (D's) 22's on it yet?
07-20-2015, 12:22 PM
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Thread Starter
Dem choppas mang!
07-20-2015, 12:22 PM
Mom stopped by...she's like, "can you just spray the dirt off the back of the car please". I'm was like...
you mean wash your fkng car for you? I was like, you can't play me cause I know you're doing it...
Ma dukes...did the whole thing, wax, exhaust polish...interior. She was happy...she's like, well no honey, not what I meant but THANKS! 
you mean wash your fkng car for you? I was like, you can't play me cause I know you're doing it... Ma dukes...did the whole thing, wax, exhaust polish...interior. She was happy...she's like, well no honey, not what I meant but THANKS!
07-20-2015, 12:23 PM
choppas...that's right. Donk a V...immediate death!
07-20-2015, 12:23 PM
Although that's one of the few cars with enough factory power to handle the 100 pound chrome on each corner. 
07-20-2015, 12:25 PM
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Thread Starter
Dey see me rollin'' dey hattin''
The following 2 users liked this post by Majofo:
justnspace (07-20-2015),
rockstar143 (07-20-2015)
07-20-2015, 12:30 PM
Paul to the Wall!
07-20-2015, 12:31 PM
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Thread Starter
I got deezzz elbowwss mang!!!
07-20-2015, 12:32 PM