04 TL 6-speed abnormal wear (release bearing sleeve)?
#1
04 TL 6-speed abnormal wear (release bearing sleeve)?
Greetings, comrades! So I just took my 6-speed trans out of my car, and I've noticed what I believe to be an abnormality. The sleeve/tube or whatever you want to call it, where the throwout bearing sits - seems to have an ever so slightly noticable groove, maybe 1 mil or something. Right next to the clutch-case it's obviously a bit wider, but closer to the splines on the mainshaft there seems to be a bit of wear, and the bearing isn't sitting very tight. Here's a question for those who've done clutch/flywheel replacement on their 3rd gens - is this normal, or should this sleeve be completely smooth? Thanks in advance. Hope it's clear what I'm talking about.
#2
Latent car nut
iTrader: (2)
Greetings, comrades! So I just took my 6-speed trans out of my car, and I've noticed what I believe to be an abnormality. The sleeve/tube or whatever you want to call it, where the throwout bearing sits - seems to have an ever so slightly noticable groove, maybe 1 mil or something. Right next to the clutch-case it's obviously a bit wider, but closer to the splines on the mainshaft there seems to be a bit of wear, and the bearing isn't sitting very tight. Here's a question for those who've done clutch/flywheel replacement on their 3rd gens - is this normal, or should this sleeve be completely smooth? Thanks in advance. Hope it's clear what I'm talking about.
#4
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
Greetings, comrades! So I just took my 6-speed trans out of my car, and I've noticed what I believe to be an abnormality. The sleeve/tube or whatever you want to call it, where the throwout bearing sits - seems to have an ever so slightly noticable groove, maybe 1 mil or something. Right next to the clutch-case it's obviously a bit wider, but closer to the splines on the mainshaft there seems to be a bit of wear, and the bearing isn't sitting very tight. Here's a question for those who've done clutch/flywheel replacement on their 3rd gens - is this normal, or should this sleeve be completely smooth? Thanks in advance. Hope it's clear what I'm talking about.
#6
I'm referring not to the bearing itself, but to the extension on the clutch-case where it sits. That's a bit more difficult to replace. It would require the entire clutch-case to be replaced. Or some improvisation.
Last edited by InspireJ32A; 03-19-2018 at 03:10 PM.
#7
Trending Topics
#8
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
The sleeve/tube or whatever you want to call it, where the throwout bearing sits - seems to have an ever so slightly noticable groove, maybe 1 mil or something. Right next to the clutch-case it's obviously a bit wider, but closer to the splines on the mainshaft there seems to be a bit of wear, and the bearing isn't sitting very tight.
However, i'm not sure if your '...maybe 1 mil or something...' noticable groove would be considered excessive or 'normal wear & tear', sorry.
I'm leaning torward 'normal wear & tear', .
What's the opinion of the transmission rebuilder, as to the condition, with the amount of miles you have on the box?
As you know, just make sure they 'lube' all specified areas real good, that is if you don't opt for an expensive case replacement.
Good Luck!
#9
I scanned the next page of the repair manual and that area you highlighted IS an area (one of many) it states to lubricate (see attachment).
However, i'm not sure if your '...maybe 1 mil or something...' noticable groove would be considered excessive or 'normal wear & tear', sorry.
I'm leaning torward 'normal wear & tear', .
What's the opinion of the transmission rebuilder, as to the condition, with the amount of miles you have on the box?
As you know, just make sure they 'lube' all specified areas real good, that is if you don't opt for an expensive case replacement.
Good Luck!
However, i'm not sure if your '...maybe 1 mil or something...' noticable groove would be considered excessive or 'normal wear & tear', sorry.
I'm leaning torward 'normal wear & tear', .
What's the opinion of the transmission rebuilder, as to the condition, with the amount of miles you have on the box?
As you know, just make sure they 'lube' all specified areas real good, that is if you don't opt for an expensive case replacement.
Good Luck!
#11
Ah. Ok. The TL has it integrated into the case. A lot of Hondas have them as bolt-in pieces. For those cars, the release bearing guide should always be replaced.
If its integrated, then you'd need to clean it with brake cleaner and scuff it off until its smooth (sand paper of increasing grit count). Then grease it with HT urea.
If someone used the wrong type of grease, it will wear very fast and become wavy and cause the pedal to "catch" on the way up.
I once bought an 08 Civic Si with this issue. Some fruitcake "lubricated" it with anti seize...which caused a lot of damage. I was able to smooth it out and fix it.
Your limiting factor is that you want to absolutely minimize the material you remove.
If you can lube it with HT urea and then slide it back/forth by hand smoothly...then leave it.
Don't just use "some grease". If you don't want to go to a dealer, then try to source high temp polyurea grease elsewhere -- maybe a bicycle shop?
Last edited by BROlando; 03-19-2018 at 04:54 PM.
#12
Ah. Ok. The TL has it integrated into the case. A lot of Hondas have them as bolt-in pieces. For those cars, the release bearing guide should always be replaced.
If its integrated, then you'd need to clean it with brake cleaner and scuff it off until its smooth (sand paper of increasing grit count). Then grease it with HT urea.
If someone used the wrong type of grease, it will wear very fast and become wavy and cause the pedal to "catch" on the way up.
I once bought an 08 Civic Si with this issue. Some fruitcake "lubricated" it with anti seize...which caused a lot of damage. I was able to smooth it out and fix it.
Your limiting factor is that you want to absolutely minimize the material you remove.
If you can lube it with HT urea and then slide it back/forth by hand smoothly...then leave it.
Don't just use "some grease". If you don't want to go to a dealer, then try to source high temp polyurea grease elsewhere -- maybe a bicycle shop?
If its integrated, then you'd need to clean it with brake cleaner and scuff it off until its smooth (sand paper of increasing grit count). Then grease it with HT urea.
If someone used the wrong type of grease, it will wear very fast and become wavy and cause the pedal to "catch" on the way up.
I once bought an 08 Civic Si with this issue. Some fruitcake "lubricated" it with anti seize...which caused a lot of damage. I was able to smooth it out and fix it.
Your limiting factor is that you want to absolutely minimize the material you remove.
If you can lube it with HT urea and then slide it back/forth by hand smoothly...then leave it.
Don't just use "some grease". If you don't want to go to a dealer, then try to source high temp polyurea grease elsewhere -- maybe a bicycle shop?
#14
Honda dealers won't sell it to you?
Polyurea works really well for clutches in particular. I think the honda stuff is "shear stable" polyurea?
Maybe brake grease or wheel bearing grease would work, I suppose. But...it may not work that well for very long.
Polyurea works really well for clutches in particular. I think the honda stuff is "shear stable" polyurea?
Maybe brake grease or wheel bearing grease would work, I suppose. But...it may not work that well for very long.
#15
Right. Looks like I found something after all - not Honda OEM, but "Huskey" brand urea grease. It's in a different city, but that's fixable. Thanks for the heads-up!
#16
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
InspireJ32A, did you happen to take any pics of that 1mil grove on the release bearing sleeve?
Just Americanets are curious.
Just Americanets are curious.
Last edited by zeta; 03-20-2018 at 08:26 PM.
#18
#20
My shop quoted me about 100 dollars to fix the problem. Not too bad, I'm probably gonna go for it, but before I do that - I'd just like to hear your opinions.
The following users liked this post:
zeta (03-22-2018)
#21
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
That video was possibly the best way to convey just what you are dealing with, nicely done.
First, IMHO, I'd trash the old clutch release fork (if possible) and invest in a new one just because of the shape that it's in and you don't want to have to 'pull' that tranny again just to have to 'd*ck' around with it if it should get worse or fail.
If you assemble a new clutch release bearing and fork into their designated areas of the clutch case with the release spring, so that they interact together as a normal use mechanism within said case, would the new release bearing still 'wobble/fit loosely' as it moves proximate while being actuated by the new fork? I'm guessing yes?
First, IMHO, I'd trash the old clutch release fork (if possible) and invest in a new one just because of the shape that it's in and you don't want to have to 'pull' that tranny again just to have to 'd*ck' around with it if it should get worse or fail.
If you assemble a new clutch release bearing and fork into their designated areas of the clutch case with the release spring, so that they interact together as a normal use mechanism within said case, would the new release bearing still 'wobble/fit loosely' as it moves proximate while being actuated by the new fork? I'm guessing yes?
#22
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
The reason I ask if it still 'wobles/fits loosely' is because with the whole mechanism assembled, there appears to be some space between the release shaft and bearing as shown in the pictures below. the second picture is clearer:
Get what I'm saying?
It may not be something to worry about and easily corrected with a new fork and bearing?
Get what I'm saying?
It may not be something to worry about and easily corrected with a new fork and bearing?
Last edited by zeta; 03-22-2018 at 02:05 PM.
#23
The reason I ask if it still 'wobles/fits loosely' is because with the whole mechanism assembled, there appears to be some space between the release shaft and bearing as shown in the pictures below. the second picture is clearer:
Get what I'm saying?
It may not be something to worry about and easily corrected with a new fork and bearing?
Get what I'm saying?
It may not be something to worry about and easily corrected with a new fork and bearing?
#24
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
TBH I haven't conducted any experiments of that sort, so I really don't know what to say. Regardless, judging by the photos that you just posted - the bearing should fit really tight and snug. Which seems to be the case on your pics. Also, I don't see the irregularities that I'm seeing on my gearbox. I guess I should go ahead and have it fixed then.
#25
The following users liked this post:
zeta (03-27-2018)
#27
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
^
Nice.
So it looks like they put some kind of 'sleeve' over the original, fastened it with a weld at the base, and then machined it down to fit your release bearing?
Nice.
So it looks like they put some kind of 'sleeve' over the original, fastened it with a weld at the base, and then machined it down to fit your release bearing?
#28
That sounds about right, except I don't think they welded anything - just kind of pressed it on. Also it's a steel sleeve: I'm no expert, but I think that the two metals (steel and aluminum) can't be welded together, correct me if I'm wrong.
#29
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
I think it can be done; however, it involves a special equipment/process. Hopefully the link below works for you;
How to Weld Aluminum To Steel | ESAB Knowledge Center
#30
Yeah, I see it now the steel sleeve is darker than the inner aluminium.
I think it can be done; however, it involves a special equipment/process. Hopefully the link below works for you;
How to Weld Aluminum To Steel ESAB Knowledge Center
I think it can be done; however, it involves a special equipment/process. Hopefully the link below works for you;
How to Weld Aluminum To Steel ESAB Knowledge Center
Hey man. I asked the guys at the shop to take some pictures, here you go. Their seems to be a difference between the gear sets, not sure how much of it is due to wear.
#31
On a related note, the guys at the shop tell me that the gears are severely worn out. When I asked what parts I should buy from this diagram - they say "all of them". Except for the bearings (which were replaced not even a year ago), the mainshaft, and the obvious 3rd gear set which we're putting in right now.
I ordered everything except for number 7 on the diagram. Any thoughts on what sort of adverse effects can be caused by not replacing a worn 5-6 sleeve set?
I ordered everything except for number 7 on the diagram. Any thoughts on what sort of adverse effects can be caused by not replacing a worn 5-6 sleeve set?
#32
Yeah, I see it now the steel sleeve is darker than the inner aluminium.
I think it can be done; however, it involves a special equipment/process. Hopefully the link below works for you;
How to Weld Aluminum To Steel ESAB Knowledge Center
I think it can be done; however, it involves a special equipment/process. Hopefully the link below works for you;
How to Weld Aluminum To Steel ESAB Knowledge Center
#33
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
It appears the set on the 'bottom' is the newer parts? If so, you can see that the teeth on the synchro appear to have a different shape then the 'top' set'. Perhaps because of wear. Afew appear to be missing?
Last edited by zeta; 04-04-2018 at 07:15 AM.
#34
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
Looks very similar to the set in these pictures.
#35
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
On a related note, the guys at the shop tell me that the gears are severely worn out. When I asked what parts I should buy from this diagram - they say "all of them". Except for the bearings (which were replaced not even a year ago), the mainshaft, and the obvious 3rd gear set which we're putting in right now. I ordered everything except for number 7 on the diagram. Any thoughts on what sort of adverse effects can be caused by not replacing a worn 5-6 sleeve set?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
AndrewA
3G TL Tires, Wheels & Suspension
15
10-28-2008 10:39 AM
Rod
2G CL (2001-2003)
2
04-20-2001 02:32 PM