Transmission Problems? (Sport Hybrid)
#81
So do we have a wet or dry clutch pack? I was watching some videos on YouTube about the differences between DCT transmissions as well as what you should never do with either one of them which adds premature wear. Interesting stuff. I'm trying to see where it relates to our car's transmission operation.
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RLX-Sport Hybrid (08-14-2016)
#82
I appreciate that your experience is different, but you're a little off base with the circumstances that cause the unusual shifting to exhibit for me.
It's under moderate, steady throttle where it is most evident.
If I feather the throttle so that I'm on the batteries, it's smooth.
If I put my foot down, it's normal, too.
It's only under moderate acceleration at moderate speeds.
Unfortunately, it is conditions in which I frequently find myself. :-)
It's under moderate, steady throttle where it is most evident.
If I feather the throttle so that I'm on the batteries, it's smooth.
If I put my foot down, it's normal, too.
It's only under moderate acceleration at moderate speeds.
Unfortunately, it is conditions in which I frequently find myself. :-)
#83
#84
Inching forward...that's on the electrics by themselves, usually, isn't it?
Being effectively in neutral at a stop explains the rolling on an incline. I guess we'll have to get used to that.
Being effectively in neutral at a stop explains the rolling on an incline. I guess we'll have to get used to that.
#85
Update:
I got the transmission and rear differential fluid flushed/replaced as well as my first set of wipers this morning. The technician said that it had not been changed previously (rear diff) as I was unsure. Somehow when I recently changed the oil I reset the B16 notice which was not correct. My mistake. It was only a few hundred miles ago so it is not a problem. The tech gave the car a thorough inspection and was surprised how little wear was measured on the brake pads. He said they measured almost brand new so that is further proof that the hybrid system is doing most of the heavy work, not that we were doubting it. Based on the wear he saw this morning, he thinks that it is completely reasonable to expect to not to have to change the pads/rotors for well past 150,000. Quite astonishing I think considering the car's weight. He tested the hybrid system and said that it is operating at factory specs. Everything else he said looks to be in "like new condition". Another customer was standing next to me while I was clearing my bill and asked if I am taking delivery of my new car from the service department? My service manager chimed in and said that I take exemplary care of my cars and that it actually has 33,000 miles on it. The customer was impressed.
My bill for everything was $301
I got the transmission and rear differential fluid flushed/replaced as well as my first set of wipers this morning. The technician said that it had not been changed previously (rear diff) as I was unsure. Somehow when I recently changed the oil I reset the B16 notice which was not correct. My mistake. It was only a few hundred miles ago so it is not a problem. The tech gave the car a thorough inspection and was surprised how little wear was measured on the brake pads. He said they measured almost brand new so that is further proof that the hybrid system is doing most of the heavy work, not that we were doubting it. Based on the wear he saw this morning, he thinks that it is completely reasonable to expect to not to have to change the pads/rotors for well past 150,000. Quite astonishing I think considering the car's weight. He tested the hybrid system and said that it is operating at factory specs. Everything else he said looks to be in "like new condition". Another customer was standing next to me while I was clearing my bill and asked if I am taking delivery of my new car from the service department? My service manager chimed in and said that I take exemplary care of my cars and that it actually has 33,000 miles on it. The customer was impressed.
My bill for everything was $301
Last edited by RLX-Sport Hybrid; 08-15-2016 at 09:43 AM.
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#86
I appreciate that your experience is different, but you're a little off base with the circumstances that cause the unusual shifting to exhibit for me.
It's under moderate, steady throttle where it is most evident.
If I feather the throttle so that I'm on the batteries, it's smooth.
If I put my foot down, it's normal, too.
It's only under moderate acceleration at moderate speeds.
Unfortunately, it is conditions in which I frequently find myself. :-)
It's under moderate, steady throttle where it is most evident.
If I feather the throttle so that I'm on the batteries, it's smooth.
If I put my foot down, it's normal, too.
It's only under moderate acceleration at moderate speeds.
Unfortunately, it is conditions in which I frequently find myself. :-)
BTW - when i took my car into the dealership [which recently changed ownership], the first thing the service advisor did was call out the head tech from the shop. He came out introduced himself. He told me he was the dedicated NSX tech and had been to Ohio and a track for NSX training. My dealer has sold 2 other Sport Hybrids so he had limited experience with the car. I will probably call him back to address two issues which didn't get properly fixed [ (1) center console lid - replaced with the same part as was on the car, not the new part number listed in the TSB and (2) the AcuraLink red light issue - they simply did a software update which had no impact and not the replacement noted in the TSB].
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pgeorg (08-16-2016)
#88
Hard to properly answer since not sure what gear the car is in when it happens but my best guess is the transition from either 3rd to 4th or 4th to 5th. I only seems to happen on one gear change and then everything is smooth. It is not continuous, if you mean several consecutive gear shifts. It happens at one precise shift point under a particular set of load conditions. To the best of my recollection it can happen when doing moderate acceleration or when cruising along as say 50 mph and then ease off the gas [in an attempt to go into EV mode or just by traffic conditions] and then using the gas [if not in EV mode] to gradually go back to the 50 mph speed after having slowed down. It all happens quickly but is definitely noticeable. It is something new. The car is so quiet and smooth normally it sticks out like a sore thumb. I'm more concerned about what may be going on to cause this than the minor annoyance of it happening now. It is of particular concern since it is slowly becoming more frequent. I don't think it is just because I am listening for it actively now and trying to duplicate it to be able to recreate for the service folks.
Hope this answers the question.
Hope this answers the question.
#89
Thank you! Yes it makes things much clearer......
I wonder if this has anything to do with the dual clutches that do the gear change, since it happens in an even or odd gear. Also i wonder if it has something to do with the VCM engaging and disengaging at the same time (50-60mph is VCM territory)........
I know this is a long shot, but have either of you noticed this when in Sport Mode? VCM is disabled in Sport Mode, so if the shifting is fine then, that could be it. If its the dual clutches, it would happen in both modes......
I wonder if this has anything to do with the dual clutches that do the gear change, since it happens in an even or odd gear. Also i wonder if it has something to do with the VCM engaging and disengaging at the same time (50-60mph is VCM territory)........
I know this is a long shot, but have either of you noticed this when in Sport Mode? VCM is disabled in Sport Mode, so if the shifting is fine then, that could be it. If its the dual clutches, it would happen in both modes......
#90
Thank you! Yes it makes things much clearer......
I wonder if this has anything to do with the dual clutches that do the gear change, since it happens in an even or odd gear. Also i wonder if it has something to do with the VCM engaging and disengaging at the same time (50-60mph is VCM territory)........
I know this is a long shot, but have either of you noticed this when in Sport Mode? VCM is disabled in Sport Mode, so if the shifting is fine then, that could be it. If its the dual clutches, it would happen in both modes......
I wonder if this has anything to do with the dual clutches that do the gear change, since it happens in an even or odd gear. Also i wonder if it has something to do with the VCM engaging and disengaging at the same time (50-60mph is VCM territory)........
I know this is a long shot, but have either of you noticed this when in Sport Mode? VCM is disabled in Sport Mode, so if the shifting is fine then, that could be it. If its the dual clutches, it would happen in both modes......
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pgeorg (08-16-2016)
#95
The receipt that I walked out with doesn't have the references that the tech showed me.
The bill refers to a PGM-FI update and a "Cell Voltage Sensor Update."
Noise is still there.
Transmission shifts better, though.
Shift from 4 to 5 is a little hard. However, if you are driving the way that you would have to drive to provoke the previously reported problem, you are not going to mind that.
Will have to leave the car some day to troubleshoot the noise. They think it is mechanical and will take some poking around.
The bill refers to a PGM-FI update and a "Cell Voltage Sensor Update."
Noise is still there.
Transmission shifts better, though.
Shift from 4 to 5 is a little hard. However, if you are driving the way that you would have to drive to provoke the previously reported problem, you are not going to mind that.
Will have to leave the car some day to troubleshoot the noise. They think it is mechanical and will take some poking around.
#97
The 4-5 shift under the conditions which would have previously provoked the problem is a unique, new feel.
Full throttle and light throttle, the shifts are fine.
It was misbehaving under enthusiastic, but not full throttle. You'd have to lighten up or put your clog down to get the shifts smoothed out.
#98
So is the new 4 to 5 feel "hard shifting" as in the clutch is slipping and then it grabs, or it like there is a momentary delay in switching gears (pause) and then it engages?
I apologize for all the questions, but this is very interesting to me........ I am trying to see if the 4 to 5 hard shift (when it happens) is the same as in a conventional DCT......I am sure you would know.....
Thanks George.
I apologize for all the questions, but this is very interesting to me........ I am trying to see if the 4 to 5 hard shift (when it happens) is the same as in a conventional DCT......I am sure you would know.....
Thanks George.
#99
I think we should have an East Coast meet of SH owners so we can test drive each other's cars to see if we can sense any subtle driving differences between them. We could think of it as our own focus group and report back to Acura on it. If not we could just have an enjoyable meal.
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#100
4-5, I suppose, under the exact conditions that would have previously invoked the indecision, is difficult. The car's shifting to another shaft while also shifting to another gear, while also trying to be sure if the driver really means business with his "enthusiastic" but not "full" throttle input.
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#101
I think we should have an East Coast meet of SH owners so we can test drive each other's cars to see if we can sense any subtle driving differences between them. We could think of it as our own focus group and report back to Acura on it. If not we could just have an enjoyable meal.
I think our cars are kind of a dead end, an experiment sold to enthusiasts. I'm sure they want to be sure we are happy with our cars, but I don't think the successor to this series Legend is going to have this transmission, even. I think this transmission might've been a one-off.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if the next Legend, if there is one at all, has an AT9 in non-hybrid or the DCT9 in hybrid form.
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TampaRLX-SH (08-18-2016)
#103
It's discernibly different than it was before, and discernibly different from the other shifts under that kind of throttle input.
It's hard to talk about it accurately without sounding like it's horrible, and it really is not.
It's just discernibly different, that's all.
At this point, I've only driven maybe 65 miles after the PGM-FI update. Who knows. Different humidity, different temperatures today...maybe it won't even happen today.
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pgeorg (08-18-2016)
#104
GK, I don't think you said this yet but if you did I get the dummy award. What specific thing(s) did the service tech do? What can you share with us that we can tell our own service departments because I doubt they will know anything. I feel like we are the tips of the spear with our cars and we can't depend on our service departments to know as much as we do.
#105
GK, I don't think you said this yet but if you did I get the dummy award. What specific thing(s) did the service tech do? What can you share with us that we can tell our own service departments because I doubt they will know anything. I feel like we are the tips of the spear with our cars and we can't depend on our service departments to know as much as we do.
But I had also emailed the sales manager, and he informed service that I was coming.
The service writer grabbed a particular tech known for difficult things, and someone who'd evidently seen more SH-AWD Legends than my own. He mentioned that he had somebody driving there for service who lived in MD, because of how unusual the cars were.
I was able to duplicate both problems, thank goodness, while he was in the car listening for them. :-) He then took the car out himself.
Because it was the first visit, and I was not leaving the car, the first thing they wanted to do was look for any relevant updates. They found two, and wanted to try those updates before they did anything else.
One of the updates might have affected the shifting issue, so I agreed to try it for a while, and to bring it back to allow more in depth and lengthy troubleshooting of the noise, which they fear might be mechanical and take some time to find and fix.
So the only thing they've done so far is the two updates, one of which might have helped with the shifting problem. I haven't driven the car today because I'm stuck in my office at home for a while, it looks like, then have to go on a planned hike around the lake.
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#106
I dunno if they're interested any longer! LOL...
I think our cars are kind of a dead end, an experiment sold to enthusiasts. I'm sure they want to be sure we are happy with our cars, but I don't think the successor to this series Legend is going to have this transmission, even. I think this transmission might've been a one-off.
I think our cars are kind of a dead end, an experiment sold to enthusiasts. I'm sure they want to be sure we are happy with our cars, but I don't think the successor to this series Legend is going to have this transmission, even. I think this transmission might've been a one-off.
Here's hoping the next Legend is a success.
#107
Don't panic.
It's discernibly different than it was before, and discernibly different from the other shifts under that kind of throttle input.
It's hard to talk about it accurately without sounding like it's horrible, and it really is not.
It's just discernibly different, that's all.
At this point, I've only driven maybe 65 miles after the PGM-FI update. Who knows. Different humidity, different temperatures today...maybe it won't even happen today.
It's discernibly different than it was before, and discernibly different from the other shifts under that kind of throttle input.
It's hard to talk about it accurately without sounding like it's horrible, and it really is not.
It's just discernibly different, that's all.
At this point, I've only driven maybe 65 miles after the PGM-FI update. Who knows. Different humidity, different temperatures today...maybe it won't even happen today.
I think now i understand what you mean when you say "hard" shift.
Thank you.
#108
Where this becomes a constraint is the Acura RLX version. Acura is not a car engineering company and needs a higher volume flagship (and market respect). Acura needs a profitable car. Acura needs a car desired by more. The LEGEND development model may be intentionally restricting the model that Acura would like to see a sales success. Acura's primary investment to the brand differentiation from Honda is in styling. And we all know where some of that has lead. Acura cannot afford the test bed model that Honda accepts with the LEGEND.
If the Acura flagship is to be a success by USA standards, then it must become a model designed for the USA market and not a global market compromise with samplings of new features, The LEGEND is a product to see how the market reacts. An Acura flagship needs to be a model that RESPONDS to what the market demands. And perhaps a USA built model as well (joining all other Acura models, including the halo NSX.
If or when that happens, I think a LEGEND / RLX shared model will remain a boutique car.
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#109
In my travels this morning I paid particular attention to the transmission to see if I could hear or feel any of the issues GK was referring to. I tried both EV and Sport modes, light throttle, moderate and heavy throttle inputs, and heard nothing notable, nor did I feel anything that was not butter smooth and very quick shifting as normal. I do have a minor rattle from time to time in my dash by the NAVI screen that I am trying to isolate, but that is it. In very light throttle applications, the DCT transmission is so fast and smooth, it almost feels like a CVT in its operation. That is the best analogy I can muster.
#110
^^^
I tried all those combinations also, but felt and heard nothing. The only time there can be an abrupt shift, is when going really slow and the ICE turns on..... And that does not happen very often either.
Oh and the delay in shifting when trying to pass someone in EV mode, press the gas pedal to the floor, the engine revs high, and then a second later the car takes off......
Then again i only have 10,000 miles so far.....
I tried all those combinations also, but felt and heard nothing. The only time there can be an abrupt shift, is when going really slow and the ICE turns on..... And that does not happen very often either.
Oh and the delay in shifting when trying to pass someone in EV mode, press the gas pedal to the floor, the engine revs high, and then a second later the car takes off......
Then again i only have 10,000 miles so far.....
#111
^^^
I tried all those combinations also, but felt and heard nothing. The only time there can be an abrupt shift, is when going really slow and the ICE turns on..... And that does not happen very often either.
Oh and the delay in shifting when trying to pass someone in EV mode, press the gas pedal to the floor, the engine revs high, and then a second later the car takes off......
Then again i only have 10,000 miles so far.....
I tried all those combinations also, but felt and heard nothing. The only time there can be an abrupt shift, is when going really slow and the ICE turns on..... And that does not happen very often either.
Oh and the delay in shifting when trying to pass someone in EV mode, press the gas pedal to the floor, the engine revs high, and then a second later the car takes off......
Then again i only have 10,000 miles so far.....
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pgeorg (08-19-2016)
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RLX-Sport Hybrid (08-19-2016)
#115
#118
#119
"POSSIBLE CAUSES Premature wear of the steering column gearbox components."
Is it possible the sounds are from worn steering gear components? Does not electric steering respond variably to the speed in the turning ratios? Just a roll of the dice guess.
Is it possible the sounds are from worn steering gear components? Does not electric steering respond variably to the speed in the turning ratios? Just a roll of the dice guess.
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TampaRLX-SH (08-21-2016)