FredS

The price difference will have to be narrowed tremendously to make it worth it strictly on gas savings. Here are the assumptions for the RLX hybrid and gas: annual mileage 12,000 and gas at $3.60 a gallon. The RLX with a combined 24 mpg's will cost you $1,800 a year in gas. The hybrid at a combined 30 mpg's will cost you $1,440 a year in gas. With the savings of $360 a year, it will take over 15 years to pay the difference in price. My point in mentioning this is hope Acura wakes up and lowers the price difference. The difference in a Lexus ES350 and ES 300H is $2,200.

mrgold35

I'm always confused about the whole deal about hybrids (to include diesel) marketing. My goal is to save money, not gas. I can change my cable or phone plan (and I did) and save more per year compared to gas savings with a hybrid. There is really no reason for hybrids to be so expensive other than to make $$$. I would go for a RLX sport hybrid; but, only as a used model once the depreciation kicks in. I would go for the luxury and performance aspects, not for the gas savings.

George Knighton

The RLX, we're told, is a "Performance" Hybrid, and I believe that many of us who are interested in the car are interested in it not so much for the 30 mpg, but for the 400 effective HP and SH-AWD.

:-)

But maybe that's just me!

TampaRLX-SH

Honda has not adopted the market perception that Hybrid is about optimum fuel efficiency. Honda has approached hybrid technology more as a blending of efficiency without compromising performance and Acura seeks optimum refinement in Hybrid drivetrains. Remember the original V6 Accord Hybrid? The problem is that Honda does not market their approach well and with the Prius success, the marketplace had adopted Hybrid technology as meaning high MPGs.

Acura is taking a higher blending to include AWD technology and a refinement most hybrid products compromise. As with SHAWD it is intended to be seamless. Also the regeneration is much more sophisticated while powering and regenerating independent wheels simultaneously. The downside is being unnoticeable causes apathy from consumers. It is an odd quandary that Honda and Acura have placed themselves. And moving Sport Hybrid into the marketplace with the NSX is a gamble. But since the NSX has been delayed perhaps the BMW i8 will create the understanding and demand for sporty hybrids that Acura wood have been poo poo'd by the media (just as they did when Honda launched SHAWD).

Consumer opinion and market awareness are Honda & Acura's biggest challenges. No matter how well engineered, so well refined, blended for optimal of most attributes and seamless to the driver, they get dismissed for such achievements. Honda's early Hybrids and especially the V6 Accord hybrid were not accepted since they were not about optimum MPG.

As an example of how backwards this can be I was riding with a family member in his new Lexus ES300h. He touts the hybrid system and Lexus luxury. While sitting at a stop light the engine shut down. He proudly exclaimed how brilliant that was. But while waiting at the light, the engine fired up (apparently the batteries were at a low charge threshold with accessories and AC fired up). The car shuttered and LURCHED forward into the crosswalk. WHOA! As he stomped the brake (he apparently did not have enough pressure on the brake pedal nor has or engage brake assist) I nearly pooped in his ventilated seats. He actually made excuses for that saying 'gotta LOVE a hybrid'! And my thought bubble was ' this is a Lexus?'

Honda and Acura are attempting to refine these type of hybrid attributes (and shortcoming IMHO) but they will not be recognized and unappreciated for the achievement of seamlessness. That attribute is a benefit (and compromise) to the optimum efficiency in MPG.

hondamore

+1
The fuel economy is the cherry on top of the performance gains. The low end torque of the electric motors is exactly what Acura's high revving VTEC engines need as an adjunct. On top of that, the ability to have torque vectoring while off-throttle makes the handling of the SHAWD RLX Sport Hybrid the attribute I am most excited to experience.

hondamore

The other point to be made is that buyers of $65000 cars likely aren't going to be that fixated on fuel economy savings. It's a nice bonus to having fun with the performance.

Finally, if the global economy really gets going again, the potential for $5 or even $10 per gallon gas might change the math on the hybrid advantage. Alternatively, if someone perfects cold fusion and the use of fossil fuels disappears, the experience/research with controlling/modulating the electric motors might become even more valuable to Acura - they just won't bother with gas engine part.

getakey

Exactly

neuronbob

I made exactly this point in a thread on the TLX forum a few days ago. I'm more interested in the tech and performance (and rear leg room) than the fuel savings.

Of course, parking my CTS-V more often means that I would see far more fuel savings than someone coming from an RLX-PAWS--city mileage would more than double and highway mileage would increase by over 1.5 times.

TSX69

I have been trying to figure out if I want a hybrid for over a year now so I have lots of thoughts on this: Hybrids will hardly ever make financial sense unless you drive a lot. This is even more true when it comes to performance hybrids that the luxury brands usually have. Most people usually opt against these types, as evident by the Lexus GS 450h & the Infiniti M/Q70 making up ~5% of their total sales. Buyers are going to have to decide how important the other factors are such as being green, more horsepower, the exclusivity/rarity/specialness etc etc.

The other tricky part is how they try to hide the price of the hybrid system by throwing other things in there. For instance, the RLX costs an extra $5,500 but you also get some costly options (at least when you add them to German cars) like the heads up display & the LED fog lights; also there is the AWD system which can cost ~$2K. Considering those add ons, the hybrid premium does not seem as large.

The biggest problem I have with buying a hybrid is if the low production means less incentives compared to the $10k you can get off a PAWS. I would not be able to justify a $15k increase in that instance.

Pens Fan

All of the reviews from people who have driven the Hybrid rave about the performance and handling of the car-so it really is a different driving dynamic than the front wheel version. Is it worth the difference in the out the door price-that is the decision buyers will have to decide.

wstr75

Pens Fan brings up the most important distinctions to me, outstanding performance and handling, too. The fuel economy aspect is nice and is a nod to being a better steward of the earth, but the draw to me is having access to brute acceleration on demand and having a get-out-of-jail free pass always available as provided by one rear wheel acting like a drogue chute and the other acting like a booster rocket. A handy feature set for those occasional driver brain dump situations where one suddenly finds themselves going too fast in a downhill curve. I am in my early 60s and always wanted a 1970 GTO Judge (or other such muscle car) but did not have the money. (My ride in 1970 was a $200 1963 Corvair Monza and my annual liability-only insurance policy was $250.) Sometime in 2016, if I live and do well, there will be a stealthy high performance Acura RLX hybrid in my garage. Nearly fifty years later this child of the 1960s will have a bad as--d new car in his garage that accelerates and handles in the top 0.1% of cars on American roads. One more thing, the hybrid RLX "should" be the choice for America's police and highway patrol forces. It has the acceleration and handling to do the job (the handling is significantly safer!). Furthermore, for all those times when a patrolman is sitting on the on-ramp waiting for a 10+ mph driver to pass by, the hybrid drivetrain would be saving tax payer fuel dollars. Granted, stealth wealth exclusivity would be a thing of the past for us citizens once the police forces started driving RLX hybrids (I am saying this tongue-in-check because there is no way state and local police forces will adopt RLX hybrids).

eladts

This isn't so far fetched. The main reason the RLX Sport Hybrid isn't even considered for purchase by local, state and federal government agencies is that it is foreign built. If production moves to the US it will be a completely different story. Government agencies usually have regulations that favor hybrids for purchase. In downtown Boston you can see a lot of parked hybrids with official plates. Government agencies will probably also appreciate the understated look of the RLX.

George Knighton

Your government agencies must be completely different from mine, if yours are buying 65,000$ fleet cars.

It's funny you're talking about that. I had to deal with a P71 today and, man, did I hate it.

wstr75

The context clue said John Law, but was not sure about the P71 reference.
Ford P71 Police Interceptor Info
Here in NC, nearly all law enforcement officers now drive Dodges.

George Knighton

The Dodge Charger's rear end allows it to bump over gaters at the test course, and keep its composure.

Cars like the Ford Mustang and Crown Victoria will bounce sideways, sometimes as much as a couple of feet, and this can cause the driver to lose his composure in real life situations.

Most configurations of the Dodge Charger will be quicker around a road course all-out than most configurations of the Crown Victoria.

I haven't driven the new Chevrolet PPV or SS. But even the old Chevrolet 9C1 was a better choice than the P71, IMHO, if you were in adverse circumstances. If you were absolutely sure you wouldn't need to be doing much, or your agency was cash strapped and needed to worry about repair costs, then the P71 was probably a better choice.

Although the RLX isn't designed to be anywhere other than the paddock, it does okay. It keeps its composure well for a big car, the biggest problem being the transmission's inability to handle rapid changes, even in Sports Mode. The brakes could be a little stronger, too.

Manual shifting is virtually useless because in extreme stress you'll be shuffle steering and the paddles will be moving around where you can't find them. They're also too small.

Paddles should be large and mounted to the steering column.

But what the hell do I know. :-)

db22

Any police force that spends my money on a luxury car to get to a doughnut shop is not spending tax dollars wisely. A Japanese RLX will be at least double the cost of a domestic cruiser plus do less for the economy and unemployment situation across the USA.
I would like a hybrid RLX but I wouldn't like to see one painted with "official" colors.

IndyTodd

If you want the SH-AWD, and don't want to spend the extra money for the hybrid...then get an RL! Personally, I think dropping the standard SH-AWD was a monumental mistake. I absolutely love my RL, and feel I still have the zenith of Acura innovation (I don't think the RLX is an improvement yet, but a more expensive downgrade).

hondamore

I love my RL as well, but the comparison between the RL and the Sport Hybrid RLX is going to be pretty one-sided in favor of the RLX once price is removed. The RLX has a lot more power including all-important low-end torque, much more back seat room and all the latest electronic goodies like HUD, Low-speed follow cruise, LKAS, etc. AND the new IMPROVED version of SHAWD that works even off throttle.

The current option for those looking for SHAWD in a new Acura sedan would be the TLX which, by most accounts, seems pretty similar in size and performance to the RL.

Removing price from the equation is obviously a huge factor, and so I agree that the RL is a wonderful choice for those wanting the amazing handling of SHAWD without breaking the bank.

woropallo

What the 10k incentive I keep reading about in this forum. I just brought a 2015 RLX Advance and the only incentive I received was 1.9% financing for 3 years. I also negotiated 4 K off the price so almost got it for the invoice price.

2015 RLX Advance

2011TL

^^^
I could walk into a northern Virginia dealer and get a 2015 RLX Advance for $52,278 using USAA's buying service. The RLX has been discounted $8k-$12k for almost a year.

getakey

you can get an Advance almost anywhere for 49K using no buying service
or at least you could several months ago

woropallo

I am in tampa and looking at edmunds and kbb I got the true value price for a 2015 RLX Advance. I also am a USAA member so I went to their car service and out of the 3 dealer listed only one provided a price which was only about 2k off the msrp price. So if they were selling for 10k lower than the msrp, it does not look like they are selling for that price now, at least not in the tampa fl area and for a 2015. I asked about the price of a new 2014 advance thinking I could get a better deal but they are now like looking for gold. Apparently not many available. I had to wait for the 2015 advance. It came off the boat in Miami and had it shipped to tampa. Maybe because I wanted a black on ebony color.

2015 RLX Advance

getakey

I see. Situation must have changed with the lack of inventory

neuronbob

TrueCar is now showing MSRP in my area. The deals of earlier this year have dissipated into the ether.....

Malibu Flyer

The 2015 seem to be selling at almost full price. It is very early in the model year but I'm sure discounts will show up in due time. I suppose the good news is that there will be less of a difference between the SH AWD and the PAWS version, except the SH AWD will be a 2014. That assumes that the SH AWD will actually show up and can be bought without standing in line like one might for the newest iPhone.

George Knighton

The 0.9% deal seems to have gone away, too, with all models offered at 1.9%.

woropallo

It interesting that it really hard to find a 2015 RLX Avance on dealer lots in Florida and most of them only seem to have a very low inventory of 2015 RLX Tech. I had to have mine shipped from a dealer in Miami to the Tampa dealer after it arrive at the port. I was interested in the RLX SH AWD version but the dealer told me they had no idea when, or if, it will be available. In fact they were pushing the 2015 TLX SH AWD Advance. Even though the TLX had more technology than the RLX we wanted the bigger car. From what I have read the only difference between the 2014 and 2015 is that the 2015 has a heated steering wheel which does not mean much to me since I live in Florida. But we could not find any new available in floria and in the color I wanted.

2015 RLX Advance black/ebony

db22

Isn't Florida where they have the freezes and they light fires in the orange groves to save the crops?
I agree, it might not be very often but pulling 0.9g's is not very often either but it's good to have.