George Knighton

Did we ever get pictures or a definitive explanation of the "grommets" [sic] that somebody associated with a wind noise issue?

I don't see anything on my door that I'd call a grommet, but I'm kind of dumb sometimes.

:-)

fsmith

They are not really grommets (though they look like them because they have holes in the center). They are bumpers that press against the inside of the door frame when the door is closed. They are black, about 5/8" in diameter, and they are adjustable by screwing them in and out.

FYI. My dealer's tech foreman said they would only likely affect the door seal if they were adjusted way out so as to prevent the door from fully closing. If adjusted too far in, they might not keep the door from closing tightly and it might rattle. Mine had been almost all the way in so he left them. I, myself, could not make the door closing experience change noticeably by adjusting them either way, and I left them the way they were.

BTW, after the Wind Noise TSB, my car is as delightfully quiet as as it was when new, though the original wind noise was so hard to hear (at least by me) that I can't really know for sure what difference the TSB fix made.

George Knighton

14-021 as well, or just 14-047?

They've re-engaged about the relevance of 14-021, and we'll see where we get applying that to the KC2.

There are so very few KC2 that there aren't enough reports about wind noise after 14-047 for them to believe that they have a problem.

But to their credit, they've re-engaged the conversation about it and they're asking questions.

My fear is that an owner would allow a dealer service department to search for relevant TSB, and they will only find 14-047. If they do not know from the owner telling them that 14-021 has to be done, an innocent owner will be left with noise that he thinks cannot be helped.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I'm still trying to figure out how to add a picture from Flicker. Someone else offered an explanation but it was not translating to me. If you or someone else can give me a step by step, I will do it immediately.

George Knighton

I usually just upload them to the IB server that hosts the site.

If you want to mail them to me, I'll upload them here.

The only reason I'd host something remotely is if I want to retain ownership of it for some reason, and I can't imagine having to do that here.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Check your PM

fsmith

My story is a bit complicated. I had both TSBs done and later complained of a new road noise, I thought as a result of that work. So they took the single piece of foam that comprises the 021 out on the driver's side, on the theory that it might have opened up a small air channel. It made no difference. As it turns out, the noise I was hearing was from something totally different, and once that was fixed all the wind noises went away - back to the original quiet.

I talked about the 021 piece of foam with the tech foreman at my dealership, who felt that it really made no discernable difference (he looked at the foam, and test drove the car repeatedly looking for the noise). I drove the car and listened on both sides, and in a kind of A-B test drove a new hybrid side by side to make sure all was as quiet as it should be, which it was. So we decided to leave it as it was - with the 021 foam removed from the driver's side but left in on the passenger side - on the theory that if all is well don't mess with it.

I should repeat that the original wind noise for which the TSB (or TSBs) were intended was very hard to hear and required a very smooth highway, with no weather and no traffic. I cannot be certain that there is not some faint trace of wind under those circumstances, but I have had the car out on the highway and I am satisfied that with my ears, under the circimstances I could repeat, there was no extra noise beyond the slight road noise that seems impossible to stop in even this very quiet car.

So, as you can see, I am reluctant to weigh in on the TSB 021 question, except to say that it seemed to make no noticeable difference in my car.

George Knighton

Oh, okay. Finally, I get it. LOL.... I had no idea this is what you were talking about.

Attached, the door bumpers he was talking about.

woropallo

I notice mine were not tight so I hand tighten them tonight. I have a low owl type sound when the I running around 35 to 40 MPH, no big deal. I am just curious to see if this has any affect on it. I notice all my doors grommets were not tight.

holografique

So I found something interesting tonight.

1) tightening the grommets ultimately did NOT fix my wind noise issue. It just takes faster speeds to get there. Around 65-70mph it starts up and only gets louder as you move up to 80+.

2. The upper "bumper/grommet" appears to be interconnected somehow with the door handle and seems to affect the overall pull "tension/resistance" of the handle (not the entire door). Loosening up the grommet causes the handle to have more tension, causing a loud "pop" when pulling the handle to open the door. Tightening the grommet reduces the tension and makes it a much softer smoother pull with a very light "thud" when pulling the handle.

Not sure what it's actually doing inside, but that was my observation tonight when I got home and took a few minutes to fiddle with them (and take the pic).

Anyone else experience this behavior?

holografique

lol...for a second there I thought I found a difference in "door" design between the PAWS and Hybrid after conparing your pic George, but then realized your pic is the left rear passenger door

fsmith

I don't think they are doing anything inside the door. I think what you are experiencing is simply the effect of these bumpers (not really grommets, just bumpers) as they press against the inside of the door frame when the door is closed. As you screw them out, they hit the frame earlier as the door is closed and so make the door close tighter. This would explain the door lock being harder to pull. As the bumpers are screwed in, they provide less pressure against the door frame as the door is closed, and the lock opens easier. Although I was not able to observe on my car quite the large difference you talk about, I think this explains what you describe.

The bumpers are apparently there to cushion the closing of the door and adjust how tightly it closes. My dealer service foreman thinks they should have little direct impact on wind noise, although logic would dictate that if they are screwed down so far that the door doesn't close tightly (or perhaps if they are screwed out so much that the door is pushed too far away from the frame), then there might be a gap that allows air to infiltrate. Mine are "backed out" a couple of turns, and my doors close (and unlock) comfortably, with no noticeable wind noise. It may be that they have to be set just right to balance these issues.

Hope that helps.

holografique

when I loosened them, I did right to the point before they actually come out of the socket. I did this to test the differences in the extremes of both settings, loose or tight. I then tested smaller and smaller adjustments and the "tension" reacts/changes to every turn.

Personally I like them tight, giving the door handle a smoother more refined feel. The looser the bumper is, the harder you have to pull the handles.

Zoommer

Checked, loosened, tightened=marginal improvement.

Have to get the TSB(s) done. Waiting for another week before I go through it.

George Knighton

Just for the record, those pictures belong to RLX-Sport Hybrid.

holografique

^ yup, I remember you upgraded . After realizing it was a rear door, I checked mine and it's exactly the same. Minus the nice wood color you have in the Sport Hybrid.

George Knighton

LOL....

No, no.... I mean the pictures belong to the user who calls himself that.

:-)