Nari

1. Offer a factory sport appearance and handling package trim on both models. Since many people buy SUV's as luxury vehicles now it opens up room to add more sport to corresponding sedans in Acuras lineup. Some ideas: Body color or smoked grille with honeycomb insert, redone front bumper with matching honeycomb air inlets and blanks, new rear bumper, led fog lights, simple trunk lip spoiler, 19 or 20 inch 5 arm split spoke wheels, dual exhausts. Subtract 1 to 2 inches of front bumper overhang to improve stance.

2. Lower the price by $7000. Truecar.com shows that top trim RLX is being discounted by more than this amount. Abenomics has made exporting from Japan a profitable position once again, no? Offering 7k spiffs for one to two years will keep the cars moving before publicly announcing the price drop. This will not agitate prior buyers while giving a more appealing price point to casual shoppers.

3. Real wood veneers (and different varieties) and carbon fiber trim. Plastic wood is seen by this veneer snob as an egregious faux pas. At the very least offer genuine veneers/carbon fiber as a dealer installed accessory.

4. More sophisticated seating. At a minimum offer lower thigh support - this is expected in a premium car. Even better would be an articulating backrest. This seat snob finds the seats in the RLX to be superb comfort wise but offering more adjustable seating as a separation item between a mainstream car and a premium car is necessary and expected.

5. Offer a high end bespoke interior trim package. Mercedes and Audi both do this. Why not pick this profit plumb? As an example: Graphite headliner, off white leather with graphite stitching, silver infused real wood trim, aluminum pedals. Another example: Graphite headliner, umber leather with contrasting off white stitching , real carbon fiber trim, aluminum pedals. This can be done within Acuras pricing model by adding a $1-3k or so interior color option without adding a new trim. If you aren't going to do something like this you should, at a a minimum, offer the most high end interior finishes in the industry and get rid of the fake wood trim. The time is right to do something like this and it is necessary to further differentiate Acura.

6. Knurled aluminum knobs and brushed aluminum interior door handles. The chromed "Enter" knob in the center stack and the surrounding chrome trim are lacking a premium look. Replace the volume knob and Enter knob with genuine knurled aluminum. Genuine aluminum knobs are being offered on the upper trims of a recently introduced aluminum pickup truck.

7. Interior clean up: Interior vents should match the interior color on light colored interiors. Also the shift boot could use a higher quality material.

8. Adjustable dampers. All competitors offer adjustable shocks of some sort. Acura used to license the magnetorheological dampers from delphi for the MDX, that phone number must be on speed dial somewhere at Honda. If not, you should better explain to people who don't understand how amplitude reactive shocks work - they really do widen the dynamic range of a car offering both a better ride and better handling (assuming they're similar to Koni's FSD's) - explain it better if you aren't going to offer adjustable dampers. At the bare minimum the present dampers should be recalibrated to improve low speed ride on the Sh-Awd trim.

9. Exterior clean up. The upper and lower row segmented led headlights should look more like the lights in the MDX and upcoming TLX. Dual exhausts are desirable as well. Again, clipping a few inches of overhang off the front end for the mid cycle refresh (like was done with the TL) or a sport package would help further refine the look.

10. Panorama roof. Most of the competition offers this now and it is being offered on the prior mentioned pickup truck. This is now a mainstream feature that really should at least be offered.

Well thats my wish list at least.

Yumcha

Mine:

1. RWD version.
2. V8 engine.
3. A design that'll make the 5-Series jealous.

Mike_TX

I see a real contradiction in Nari's post. On the one hand he wants pricing dropped $7,000, while on the other he wants a lot of very expensive trim and mechanical additions like you'd find on a Mercedes S-class.

Comparing the features of the RLX with those of a high-end Mercedes just doesn't work, since the S-class M-B starts at close to $100,000. Getting S-class content at RLX prices (much less at RLX prices minus 7 grand) would be nice, but it ain't gonna happen.

I strongly suspect the feature set on the RLX is being subsidized by lesser models as it is, and Honda/Acura is taking a loss on the RLX as they have for years. To amp up the content would mean raising the price (and/or cutting back on the incentives), and that would upset the balancing act they're performing now.

For image reasons, Acura needs a flagship. But they're having to be careful to keep the price attractive enough to actually sell a few of them. That means holding the line on certain things, like plastic wood, carbon fiber, and even SH-AWD. They could build a car with your wish list, but it would cost 100 grand like the Mercedes, and couldn't compete.

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George Knighton

Am I mistaken, or is it real walnut trim in the RLX Hybrid? It looks like it, but I'm not a big fan of wood trim so I don't know a lot about it.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

There is a problem with real wood trim that people fail to take into consideration. As Acura is looking to further its green image, cutting down mature trees to make wood trim for cars goes against that idea. While I am no fan of fake wood plastics, I think there are other options aside from going back to using real wood trim in high end cars. Carbon fiber might be an option, but may not fit the aesthetic that some people want in their cars.

As for the bespoke interiors, this raises the manufacturing costs and is likely a major reason why Acura does not do it. If they are keep their prices down, you cannot have them increase the manufacturing costs while dropping the price. Part of why BMW and MB cars cost more is because they allow for this level of customization.

And about those electronically adjustable dampers, apparently they were not a big hit in the MDX. Honestly, I find adjustable dampers kind of pointless because every car I have ever driven with them, I end up just finding the one setting that I like and keeping it there 95% of the time. The challenge is finding a setting that is to the liking of the majority of potential buyers. In the case of the RLX, I find that the damper settings are comfortable enough for my tastes and stiff enough for the vast majority of driving that I do.

The only thing from your list that I genuinely would like to see is that panoramic roof. However, I realize that dynamically there are sacrifices that are made in order to accommodate a huge piece of glass on the top of the car. In order to maintain the same kind of structural rigidity when you replace metal with glass, you need to add greater reinforcement to the rest of the car, increasing its weight overall. If adding a panoramic sunroof sacrifices the dynamic capabilities of the car and adds more weight, I can go without it.

George Knighton

Yup. I think he really meant it as an either/or kind of thing, though. Either lower the price or give people more for the 61,500 MSRP.

I've been thinking about this ever since he posted his list. I think that Acura could find a way to import a high content version of the Legend that would compete with the LS460 in many ways...but if people in that segment still want a V8 more than they want SH-AWD then it's not much use.

Not sure Acura is big enough a company to be able to swing it without taking a big risk.

George Knighton

Did you hear Matt Hargett's speech about the 4G TL's interior?

In 2008, they were very big on being all natural or all recycled, and there was a big move on to be sure that they were not using the kinds of materials that leeched noxious gasses into the cabin.

Getting a close look at my RLX and remembering my TL, it seems to me that they have *abandoned* that idea as unsupportable among the user base.

I hate to say it but my admittedly subjective and anecdotal opinion is that the interior of my 4G TL was probably slightly better quality than the interior of my RLX.

But what do I know, eh.

I think the stippled, dull aluminum trim in the 4G TL looked better than the fake wood in the RLX. To carry it off, of course, you'd have to redesign the area around the cup holders and gear shift. A big, broad flat area there can't be just plastic, or a big chunk of flat non-reflective metal. The TL carried it off with a sliding door that was a dull finish.

George Knighton

I don't know if you've heard this anywhere but I am gathering that there will be versions of the 5G TLX with dampers that are filled with the magnetic fluid, like the ZDX was using.

It also sounds like there will be more settings than Normal and Sport.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I have to disagree. I comparatively dislike the 4G TL Tech interior when I drove it recently. It just does not feel that nice, especially in comparison to the 3G TL-S I had before and the RLX I spent the better part of 2 weeks with. Much of it has to do with the textures. Too much dull plastic painted as metal and not enough texture to make it look nice. Judging from the photos online, the Advance models had different materials so perhaps that helped improve your impressions of it.

Honestly, I would love to see an automaker go really bold with some interesting textures like shredded metal or crushed glass made from recycled materials that offer not only interesting appearances, but would add some uniqueness to the automotive landscape.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I am not inclined to think that Acura will use the magnetic rheological dampers since they seemed to not be well received. Perhaps it is something a bit more like the Tein EDFC or the ESA on my BMW motorcycle that is able to adjust the damping by adjusting the mechanical knob using small motors or solenoids.

George Knighton

Other than the ZDX, where has Acura used the magnetic shocks/dampers?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

2G MDX Advance. It had the MR shocks that were too stiff for people in Sport but too soft when in normal.

Fabvsix

My 2007 MDX SPORT ENT has the magnetic shocks! 2008 & 2009 were detuned due to complaints by those that had no clue what they were about (WOMEN mostly). 2nd Acura did a horrible job of selling this technology. This included the sales folks who sold mostly the "Tech" model since the "sport" model were sold mostly "off the truck"....bottom line Acura fooked up by not selling this marvel system!!! Then they de-tuned it in 08 & 09 models then renamed the sport "ADVANCED".....The modes are called "Comfy" and Sport....NOT "Normal" and Sport....LOL....what is NORMAL??????????????? Hope this clears it up!

db22

I am very impressed with the shocks in my 2010 Advance MDX, in fact, I prefer the ride to the RL and the RLX. It was a mistake not having them in the RLX Advance.

db22

I think that Acura are going to read this forum and conclude that they have a giant success on their hands because there are only "Ten things you should do to the RLX"

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I hope they are going on more than the comments in this thread. Pretty sure the sales numbers say otherwise.

Mike_TX

I think there are two aspects to the shocks issue. One is adjustability and the other is ride quality.

In theory at least, a magnetorheological shock can react differently to small bumps and big bumps, delivering a wide range of comfort in a single unit. Some of these dampers are user-adjustable and some are not.

Adjustable shocks - which allow the user to select between Comfort, Sport, etc. - are another matter, whether they're magnetorheological or not. I think some of these change rebound and compression rates by mechanically changing preload or by changing the size of the orifices in the shock body by rotating an internal tube.

For my money, I'd be happy with an adjustable shock if it's cheaper than a magneto shock. After all, the latter has to be pre-calibrated to operate within certain parameters of bump reaction, whereas a purely adjustable shock could be made soft for highway cruising or firmed up for mountains or twisty roads as the driver prefers.

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George Knighton

Never knew about the MDX issue. I've never needed or wanted an MDX and probably just ignored all the correspondence.

But at least now I know why we have what we have on the RLX. Just what is a reactive [sic] shock, anyway?

I never heard anything bad about the ZDX setup, but perhaps they never sold enough of them for me to hear anything and about them.

Nari

No contradiction at all - I did think this through before I posted it ... think of it this way - lower the price by 7k or so on all trims and then offer options that would be worth 7k or more. Honda offers a tasteful sport package for 1700 or so on the Accord. What if the RLX offered a more comprehensive one for $3-4k. The clean, conservative lines of the RLX would make a sublime platform for a tasteful sport upgrade. What if they offered a panorama roof for 2k? What if they offered an adjustable suspension for another 2k? There's 7k to 8k of options added back in that luxury buyers see on other luxury cars for essentially 'nothing'. Well, you know what I mean .

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

The problem is that the $7k price drop would only ever happen without the additional options. Adding so many different options inevitably drives up the manufacturing cost. This is just not how Acura has ever done business and is likely never to be how they will do business.

Nari

You are right on the conservatory nature of not cutting trees down. Frankly my biggest concern of a chopped tree is the damage it causes to the animals living in and on it. Not a nice thing to cut someones house down . But there are lots of veneers to be had from one tree. Also bamboo is a good sustainable alternative that can grow three feet a day - It's basically giant grass.

Nari

That's exactly what I said - drop the price 7k across the board. Then offer more luxury features.

Acura has already offered real genuine wood veneers in the Legend and RL, they have already offered a panorama on the ZDX, they have already offered adjustable suspensions on the MDX and ZDX. Its not like they havent offered these items before . These are genuine luxury items that differentiate luxury cars from mainstream cars.

The problem is that the bottom of the market has changed in the past 10 or so years. What used to be high end features offered on BMWs like lower thigh support, panorama and radar cruise is now offered on Kias. Acura simply must offer higher end items that differentiate smart luxury from mainstream cars.

Nari

This is for the RDX but the technology is the same for all Acuras.

AMPLITUDE REACTIVE DAMPERS
A new technology for Acura, Amplitude Reactive Dampers are used on the 2013 RDX to provide a superior level of ride comfort together with crisp, precise handling. The dampers operate in two distinct performance parameters, including a Ride Zone and a Handling Zone. Each zone has a unique set of compression and rebound damping forces tailored to provide the desired ride and handling attributes. In essence, the amplitude reactive dampers operate like two separate suspension systems combined in one. The new dampers are entirely mechanical in operation with no electronics required.
Ride Zone
For short suspension stroke (between 1-5 mm travel), the dampers provide minimal damping effect to provide an extremely comfortable ride where little suspension travel is needed- such as on smooth road surfaces.
Handling Zone
For longer suspension stroke (over 10 mm travel), a second damping circuit is engaged. Here damping effect is maximized for enhanced steering feel, improved body-roll control and more secure handling- such as during aggressive cornering or on severe road conditions.
With the Amplitude Reactive Dampers, by adding a second spring floating valve (the previous generation RDX only had one conventional valve) above a conventional main piston valve, the 2013 RDX is able to maintain the superior driving dynamics of the previous model, and further improve ride qualities to that of a sedan.
For example, while driving on rough surfaces, the application of short-stroke damper movement allows the main piston valve absorb the small vibrations for a comfortable ride. However during hard cornering both the main and second piston valves move that create a much larger damping force for better driving dynamics.

Guitaryojedi

Love this feature on my ZDX.
usually I use:

Sport=Freeway
Comfy=City/Street

BUT, I just noticed my 2011 ZDX now has weird squeaky noise when I turned.
Doesn't matter Left/Right or Sport/Comfy.

I'm not sure if this adjustable damper causing this problem or not though...

weather

....Except they fail miserably in cold climate to provide that so called "superior level of ride comfort" they try and deliver. The same can be said about the ILX...that annoying "thud" that Acura has been unable to rectify so far. At least not that I am aware.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

i think the other issue with the "sport" dampers in the MDX sport/advance pkg....cost to replace when they failed. each one costs about $800 a piece vs the "base" shock assembly at a cost of about $90 each.

i found the suspension in the RLX fine. a blend of sportiness and comfort when needed. it was a nice balance.

Rocket_man

I was at the Houston Auto Show last week and saw the RLX Hybrid. I noticed right away that the wood trim looked different. It certainly looked real to me. It looked nice actually. Here are some pics. Also, I don't see a problem with wood trim in cars... trees are renewable and car trim only uses a thin veneer so it is pretty efficient from a material standpoint.






And here is a picture of the trunk with battery pack if anyone is interested.

George Knighton

Yup. I thought so. Looks like a more natural grain to it than what we have on the regular RLX.

Thank you for showing us.

I still intend to try the RLX Hybrid again. I'm curious whether they found a way to fix the hesitation in getting power to reverse gear, although that's not the only sticking point for me.

Who knows...maybe a 30% chance I'll switch to an RLX Hybrid if one comes available at my dealer.

But the more miles I put on this RLX Advance, the more I seem to like it.

And there's still that TLX SH-AWD to look forward to.... :-)

scv76

LOL at myself....When I first looked at the pictures Rocket_man put up of the wood trim, they reminded me of the cheap add-on stuff we had available back in the day. (can't remember what it was called...some kind of vinyl)
First time it would get real hot inside the car, our cheap stuff would shrink up and look all wavy looking.

Then I realized the wavy look in these posted pictures was caused by reflections!!

That trim looks pretty good!

Rocket_man

It had a 3D look to it, real depth. Didn't come out well in the pictures. I thought it looked nice.

jshaw

Not only that, they aren't new, nor Acura-specific technology. For example, Infiniti has been using these for a while (and the shocks are made by ZF Sachs).

Point is, Acura knew about these and their downfalls for a long time, and decided they were worth it. As for whomever posted about the MDX sport shocks, you are correct. Those magnetic shocks cost about as much as a proper OEM air strut to replace.