hondamore

This discussion is adding more reasons for me to wait until fall next year to buy a 2016 model - hopefully by then all the performance goals will be attained and all the bugs will be worked out (and hopefully they'll be making enough of them that purchasing one at a reasonable price will be possible). Maybe they will have perfected the twin-turbo 550 HP Type R SHAWD RLX by then?? (just wishful thinking/dreaming).

All of that said, I'm sure the performance of the current spec SHAWD RLX is MORE than adequate for the vast majority of potential buyers, but the marketing guys don't think they can sell it if it isn't sub-5 seconds to 60 or there is a specific competitor that the execs feel they MUST outperform - hence the delays. Just my two cents.

KeithL

One has to wonder if they might do a traditional SH-AWD model since the RLXh is vaporware and even if it does ship we're talking rarity of the Bigfoot

hondamore

I am of the opinion that only the 2014 version of the SHAWD (or the 2015 version if this drags out much longer) will be ultra low production. Once they achieve the performance/reliability that they want, I can see them making 5000+ units and then tapering down future years depending on demand.

Engineering a car to sell 500 units only makes sense if it is a true Halo car and you are selling them for $150,000 like the NSX. The SHAWD RLX was never going to be a really hot seller, but I would guess they hope to sell 20,000+ units during it's 7 or 8 year lifespan in order to justify the effort that went into design.
Just my guess and my two cents.

George Knighton

RLX GT? TLX GT?

Something to be hopeful of. :-)

Speaking of vaporware, too bad the TLX GT won't debut this weekend as planned. Was really looking forward to that.

KeithL

They don't even sell that many non RLXh now, I doubt they will make more than 500-1000 RLXh over 12 months. If they made 1000 cars that would be about 20% of what they sell in total RLXs over a year, assuming sales do not taper off more than they are now.

Acura needs to hire some better stylists and better marketing people. The RLXh should be styled and marketed like a the BMW M series or Audi S line.

Colin

The words are so easy to say but so difficult to execute upon. As soon as Acura builds something as expensive as these vehicles, people will always say, "why should I spend $50,000 for the [insert Acura model] when I can get [insert BMW model] for the same price, or slightly more.

In my opinion, Acura needs to stop pursuing this market and focus on building really good $30-$50,000 vehicles based on existing platforms. Use the money saved from the common platform to fill the vehicle full of goodies and top notch fit and finish.

If they are going to build "one off" models like the RLX Hybrid or upcoming NSX, make sure the technologies debuted there trickle-down into the other cars. Back in 1991 this included VTEC, double wishbone suspension and projector beam headlights. Three items off the top of my head that were common to both the Integra GSR and NSX.

neuronbob

^^^^^
In other words, do what Infiniti did and drop the top end altogether.

Honestly, by putting PAWS RLX on fire sale and not releasing the sport hybrid, they've effectively done that.

My bet is that those of us who stick with Acura will end up in a SH-AWD TLX, which will effectively be the top-end Acura sedan. Those of us who want a higher end lux sedan will be let go to the Germans or Lexus.

Acura could still surprise me and do a volume release of the RLX sport hybrid, but this prolonged delay is a bad sign.

KeithL

No one is asking for a M line cost, they could easily make some semi-aggressive styling changes, drop in real SH-AWD, tune the engine a little better and do a Type-S line. Lexus and Infinit have a good approach, the F-Sport models and then Infiniti S models, do not add much cost and yet provide no power difference, but have sportier styling, interiors and suspensions. I never would have bought the regular M37, but I liked the tweaks on the S model, nicer wheels, double piston shocks, 20 inch wheels, more aggressive fascia, all for about $2K more.

Colin

Do you want to change the discussion? I was replying to the BMW M Series and Audi S Line and now you're talking about Lexus F-Sport and Infiniti S models.

jshaw

... reread the post (maybe the thread, too). I'm sure you missed something.


Lexus and Infiniti were presented as alternatives to doing it BMW/Audi style. You're the one banking on the wrong turn, here.

Colin

^^ ummm, There is a reason I highlighted what I was replying to vs. the entire thread.

getakey

so, there have been approx 200 SH RLXs on a boat for a month and we no nothing about price and availability

neuronbob

The boat was hijacked by someone who REALLY wanted their RLX.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Too many ships and planes have been gone missing these days.

KeithL

Must have taken the long way around the globe to get here and then hijacked by Somali pirates.

TSX69

That person posted the rumor on 4/23 so it has been 7 weeks & still no word.

On a side note: another local dealer got a Pomegranate Pearl & sold it immediately. This is the 3rd time that a dealer in my area got that color and sold it before I could go see it. That thing must be right sexy in person. I am still curious as sometimes it looks more purple & other times more maroon:

Pens Fan

It is really getting frustrating waiting for the boat with the RLX Hybrids to arrive. Makes you wonder what is really the true story behind the continuing delays.

The Pomegranate Pearl is the best looking color in the RLX lineup. It is too rare to find but sells out when dealers order it. Never can understand why when Acura/Honda offer unique and different colors that dealers don't order more. Just like the Accord-the best color is Tigers Eye Pearl-only offered on the coupe (for some strange reason) and again in limited quantities.

CFoote

Here is my $.02...and Colin, feel free to agree or disagree

I think Acura knows these cars are slow sellers and they are keeping any SH-AWD cars for the 2015 MY....they still have plenty of 2014s they need to move and they are going to hold off on the Hybrid model until August some time.

Just complete conjecture on my part, but I get the feeling we won't see a 2014 Hybrid RLX. Looking at the May sales numbers, no hybrids were sold, so they aren't hiding in a far away dealer somewhere

Chris

neuronbob

2014 MY is pretty much over. There will be no 2014 hybrid. My bet is that if it shows up shortly, it will be a 2015.

Only Acura knows what's really going on, however.

Colin

Add in the difficulty with getting the TLX out the door, and I can imagine the RLX-H taking a back seat.

I'm not sure how this works, but if the cars have VINs assigned, can they change the model year designation? Just thinking of those unfinished Shelby Cobras that have vintage VINs assigned. They used the VINs decades later as new cars.

I agree that it would be bad to get new '14s at this point (I would add that we're down to a few Techs and Krells now, the rest of our RLXs have a home).

KeithL

But the TLX delay just happened, literally just before the NY car show as they were stating June then it became late August. Also the RLXh is like 6+ months overdue now and I suspect there are different teams working on each and the problems are probably not related.

Colin

You would think so, and 2-3 years ago I would have agreed. These days, I'm left to wonder just how large their development teams are? I agree that the issues are not directly related, but what if management says, "put everyone on this [insert car]" so personnel gets shifted?

KeithL

True, but has to make you wonder what the issues with the RLXh were since the TLX issues just surfaced. I am beginning to think with the regular RLX less than well received that they really are giving up on the RLXh to some extent.

Colin

I don't think that at all. Could be a "perfect storm" of low battery production, wanting to time it closer to NSX launch, too late for '14, too early for '15 and finally, getting the TLX sorted. In all honestly, the RLX-H I drove worked flawlessly. I could see no reason (car wise) for the delay.

Ken1997TL

It's a battery supply issue. It's affected the Accord Hybrid significantly.

Colin

I agree that this is the most likely cause for the delay to the RLX hybrid. However, there seems to be other issues in play because the Fit and TLX both miss their ship dates too. I suppose it could be a domino effect as noted above but it remains troublesome nevertheless.

wstr75

I drove through Crown Acura Greensboro's lot today and the inventory was indeed sparse, maybe only 40% of normal number of new cars on the lot. The few cars on the lot were predominately TLs and MDXs.

hondamore

Maybe the delay is because they are redesigning the Acura sedans to be true Tier-one luxury with a powerful V10 engine AND the new NSX is going to be a front engine, rear drive GT coupe.

Just kidding.

TampaRLX-SH

I went to my Acura Dealer today to drive an MDX Advance SHAWD. I also asked what was up with the SH RLX to the GM.

The GM I have know for years and I have a great relationship. He had just spoken to Mike Acavitti and this is what I was told. The phantom SH RLX do exist (approx. 200 with 2014 VINs). They are still at the port in Japan, never made it aboard ship. The reason? Simply it is not cost effective yet to ship just 200 cars until enough Japanese built Acura's will fill a car carrier ship's manifest.

2014 PAWS RLX's ceased assembly end of December and shipped to North America. The 200 SH RLXs were built out by early Spring in Tech and Advance packaging. With no more TSX's to ship they must await more RLXs to be built. The 2015 RLX production begins next week. (Poor production planning / pipeline management if you ask me....got caught with the pants down?)

The plan is to fill a ship with the 2014 SH RLXs and the first shipment of 2015 PAWS RLXs. They expect the need and availability for 2015 SH RLXs to be online by September with the 2014 SH RLXs being used as demos or sold to early adoptees.

The Sales model for the SH RLX is to supply most dealers (by rankings) with 1-2 SH RLXs. They can use them as demos and order to demand (as well as sell the Demos).

Not confirmed, but the 2015 RLX will likely be 3 trims:

PAWS Tech
PAWS Advance
SH Advance

....along with pricing shuffling that will put the 2015 SH RLX about the price the 2014 PAWS RLX Advance. I said 'really!?' and he said yes. But not likely below sticker. To be confirmed....

When I asked if there was any new features or changes, he said none he was aware of but they expect software updates to the Infotainment (across the model board of 2nd Gen Acuralink) and likely tranny software updates tweaking performance vs. mpg.

He also said the RDX was to get 2015 updates but did not refer to it as a MMC and 2 new models over the 2016-2017 MYs. I personally speculate a TLX coupe and a either an Acura branded S2000 replacement or a sub RDX CUV based on the new Honda HRV?

Much all of what he told me made sense ,,,, to me anyway. It was enough to pull me back onto the rails. I will be taking my RL in for a complete assessment before my Extended Warranty runs out in August. I am back to :

Plan A: Replace the RL with the SH RLX (I'd wait for the 2015 in September)
Plan B: Replace the RL with the MDX Advance SHAWD
Plan C: Keep the RL and add an updated RDX as a second vehicle

oh....and Plan Z: Shrink a few inches, lose a few inches and get an NSX.

hondamore

^^^Any news is good news but a SHAWD RLX for $60K is great news indeed.

TSX69

The problem with filling a boat is the same story my local dealer told me. Not sure if true but if so, it does seem like they need to plan ahead better - kinda like how they let the TL/TSX drag on for a 6th year & then stopped production & now the TLX is delayed leaving dealerships with a limited supply.

Whatever the reason, I do think that Acura should let customers know about release dates. Last we heard, they said spring 2014. Their website has said coming soon for months. They announced the TLX delay so why not the RLX hybrid? Technically there is 1 week left in spring but I doubt that they will be on sale by then.

I had a feeling that they would be reshuffling packages/features to make them cheaper, as that is their usual go to move.

Infiniti keeps wooing me with $11k off the M37, I may have to jump ship if there is no info soon.

KeithL

Not bad, I loved my M37S and would take a loaded one over the RLX in a second, but the 15 Q70 looks sweet and I am wanting to see that. The Acura tech is better, but in loved the Infiniti ride and handling far more. I am just nervous because they said the 15 Q70 they made changes to the electric powering steering, which I hope they did not make it numb.

hadokenuh

I also like the exterior changes they made to the car. And they make it quieter which was one of the reason I didnot go with it even with the deep discount. I would go with the updated m37 over the paws RLX any day.

holografique

wow, that is awesome. if they definitely keep the SH-AWD at the same price as the current PAW-S Advanced, then I'm in like Flynn when it comes time to renew my lease.

sweet!

TSX69

Yes, the M37S deal is a good 1 - it was $62 now $51k. However, it is a 2013 model so it kind of bothers me that it has been sitting on the lot for so long plus I do think that the refresh that is coming looks better.

Back to the RLX: are there not any Japan built Honda products they can put on the boat?
I do like that it offers the hybrid & AWD together unlike the M37 plus the mileage is better on the non-hybrid.

Acura should know that there is probably a limited # of buyers for the RLX hybrid, so they really should try harder to keep us interested unless this is just a test bed for the NSX & they do not care about its sales (which seems about right since they only made 200).

Maybe I should take another look at the MDX ...

KeithL

Not to get too off topic, but the M37 does not hold good resale, but if you are holding it for years it is a nice car. I had a 29 month lease and put 44K trouble free miles. I am glad they have quieted the car and added noise cancellation. They also update the materials in the cars, which is surprising because I thought the materials were top grade to begin with. I wish they would offer a proactive AWD system, but I loved driving my MS37S on long drives, we used to take it from ATL to NYC and it was a pleasure to drive.

neuronbob

Thanks for the information, TampaRL. If true (and this info does makes sense), the pricing shuffle is great news. The wait sucks, though.

jhr3uva90

I'm disappointed with Acura recently. It seems like they can't get themselves together. I think I'm going to trade in my 2005 RL for a 2010 ZDX instead.

Pens Fan

Thanks as well TampaRL for your update. I hope that Acura Corporate does indeed provide specific information soon. Those still interested are most likely hard core Acura buyers and the constant rumors (Rallye Acura told me two months ago that those 200 cars were on the boat and would "arrive soon") and subsequent disappointment when they are proven to be false are a big turn off. I tested a Lexus GS yesterday and was impressed but have been wanting to drive the RLX Hybrid for months now....................

George Knighton

The ZDX was an under-rated vehicle.

They're really great if you don't have any need for back seats.

The last year of the ZDX came very well equipped, in only one version, and with the 6-speed automatic, if you'd rather.

They're every bit as reliable as an MDX.

My only criticism is that I'd have preferred to have had the ZDX start its life based on the Accord & TL carriage instead of the MDX & Ridgeline, but that's just a personal preference.