TampaRLX-SH

Indeed.

I would not want a flawed product shipped. I expect Honda / Acura to hold back if deficiencies were found and must be corrected.

What I do NOT find acceptable is the manner in which we have been baited with ads, RLX experiences and then....silence. It is simply a cowardly approach to think that the very people who would buy a SH RLX would not understand or appreciate the reason for the delay of a sophisticated vehicle.

It reminds me of Washington. Nothing to see here, nothing happening, those smoking guns and dead bodies are not real.

I simply cannot respect that.

Pens Fan

TampaRL,

I agree wholeheartedly. We are the loyalists and deserve better. These false starts and rumors about the availability of this car is unacceptable.

neuronbob

My only request is for clarity so we don't have to depend on rumors for info.

TampaRLX-SH

The silence now has the same result as the rumors.....distrust.

If and when anything official is announced why would I believe it?

Coming Soon
Coming this Spring
We are there yet,,,

All officially now bullshit. Acura has failed to get in front of this.

hondamore

^I agree. I suspect the units were out the door and ready to load on the boat when the "issue" was discovered.

Life has taught me that sticking to the truth will win you points in the long run even if it means embarrassment or eating a little crow in the short term - maybe Acura needs to just come clean, explain what happened and slowly start to earn back some rep points with loyal customers who have been waiting for WAY too long for delivery or even news about the SHAWD RLX. I'm sure there are those in Acura/Honda who feel exactly that way, but the marketing guys loathe the idea of admitting that the car had a flaw.

wstr75

I echo your views. In the big scheme of things, 250 cars are a drop in Honda's bucket. They are likely holding them back for some form of software/hardware fix that maybe has been not one item, but perhaps a serial number of issues discovered as more NSX and RLX-Hybrid testing occurs. This is just a guess on my part, but the recent NSX testing crash with propulsion engineers at the wheel possibly provides a glimpse into last minute changes taking place to this new hybrid technology.

weather

^^ I wasn't aware of the NSX crash during testing. How do you guys hear about all that stuff (lol)

neuronbob

Tov

hondamore

Any speculation regarding the cause of the NSX crash is just that, speculation. For all we know the guys were joy riding and taking selfies or mooning the boss at 200mph. Testing does tend to "push the limit" of a vehicle and plenty of great supercars have crashed during testing. I don't think drawing conclusions from the crash is useful at this point.

Ken1997TL

It was due to a fault in the control logic. So the NSX and RL Hybrid are awaiting new testing.

Colin

During our recent RLX hybrid training, I specifically asked the trainer if there was a mechanical connection between the two electric motors on the rear axle. He wasn't sure what I was asking so I clarified, "I'm asking if the two motors are mechanically linked when going straight?" He was surprised by the question then said, "why do you ask"? And I said, "just in case things go horribly wrong with one motor." He kind of chuckled and said that was not a problem since they were electronically controlled etc.

So we know nothing about the reasons for the delay but I certainly hope it's nothing like the worst case scenario I envisioned.

KeithL

Still would be nice to see a traditional SH-AWD RLX.

George Knighton

The electric motors are not physically connected on the NSX or on the RLX Hybrid; however, the same code that your instructor said would prevent a problem appears to be directly responsible *for* a problem.

And with no small amount of irony, we note that some of that same code exists in the controlling of an "active" differential that is only available in a couple of prototype race cars.

I'm sorry that it is taking so long to get us an RLX Hybrid or an NSX Hybrid, but I'm glad they're making us wait instead of risking a Toyota-style or General Motors-style recall after a couple of years on the road.

CFoote

Totally agree 110%. I do not need the fanciness of electronic motors or more things to go wrong...I admire Honda/Acuras innovation, they need to keep pushing the envelope, but the Hybrid scares the hell out of me from a repair/maintenance perspective.

Chris

neuronbob

^^^^^
......and that's why I intend to lease. I don't mind being on the bleeding edge of technology, but who knows about the long term reliability of this stuff.

I am thankful Honda is even taking the risk.

As Soichiro Honda himself said: "Success represents the 1% of your work which results from the 99% that is called failure."

i.e. you can't move forward without taking a risk.

Edward'TLS

It is far better for Honda to fully debug the new multi-motors hybrid system before releasing any vehicle, rather than like Infiniti having to fix the new steer-by-wire system after sales.

Motorized systems always carry a safety risk when compared to mechanical systems, because even fail-save measures may fail if they are run by software. An excellent example is the Infiniti's steer-by-wire system.

KeithL

You see so many Honda/Acura products ont he road for 10+ years with like 200K miles, one has to wonder about these Hybrids, sure they may last that lone, but you'll probably eat a battery pack during that time.

Edward'TLS

The hybrid battery pack is what will cost a fortune to replace in the future.

How long is the factory warranty coverage on hybrid battery packs ?

stagefoursurvivor

KL,

Although I agree in principle because the well established current SH-AWD system is proven, it would be a step backward to add it to the the newest iteration of the flagship, even as a stopgap measure.
It wouldn't obliterate my interest but, it would certainly diminish it.

KeithL

Possibly, but for those people that want a high end luxury car with AWD have no real Acura option, even when the RLXh ships we all know it will be a rare car and will likely command MSRP. that leaves nothing in tech $50-$60K range with AWD other than the TLX. Acura started a good thing spreading SH-AWD throughout the product line, then backed away.

stagefoursurvivor

KL,

I hear ya, and agree. It certainly paints the picture of cutting edge R&D hobbled by twentieth century planning.
Case in point, when I tested the 2010 RL vs the TL, I just couldn't justify $12-14K more for prior generation tech despite the overall better quality of the RL. To me anyway, the TL was simply a better overall value.
Now, I want cutting edge luxury for the next 5-6 years, maybe longer. The RLXh appears to fit the bill mores than a RLX (old) SH_AWD.
IF there was no RLXh, I'd reevaluate.
Although there's no way to know, I wonder how many TLs have stolen RL sales

Edward'TLS

It is already a giant step backwards for the latest FWD RLX when Acura decides to remove the Acura-famous SH-AWD completely from the newest iteration of the flagship.

This move has certainly diminished many, many, many luxury sedan buyers' interest.

Even a mechanical AWD system on the Acura flagship RLX, is better than none; especially that the hybrid AWD version is still unavailable for already more than 1 year after the debut of the FWD RLX.

stagefoursurvivor

Yes, this has been a major fiasco with the hybrid RLX.

Perhaps different timeline would have worked, don't skip 2013.
Instead,
2013 RLX P-AWS & SH-AWD
2014 Ditto
2015 RLXh
Of course, I have no concept of the engineering challenges for a RLX mechanical SH-AWD integration.

holografique

you're right. and they don't offer the business lease program in Georgia. So forget that.

If the rumors of the RLXh pricing being equal to the current RLX Advanced P-AWS trim end up becoming true, then I may stick with it. I just feel like we should have gotten more for our money at the price point us early adopters paid, add insult to injury with the suspension issues and I really feel a bit "used". It upsets me to see how much Acura dropped the price afterwards to what is a more reasonable value, considering the options in the market even at the time of release (a year ago). I feel like they didn't do their research and figured they could get away with it....leaving me feeling like we got burned. But I know that is the price I pay for moving quickly...:|

Hopefully it will give me some leverage on making a deal when it comes to renewing my lease. I feel Acura owes the early RLX adopters some love after seeing how things have transpired over the last 12 months...

stagefoursurvivor

Hg,

Although I sympathize with those early adopters of the RLX and the price you likely paid compared to their value now....GOOD LUCK getting ANY concessions on the RLXh from Acura!
"It ain't personal, it's just bidness".
Maybe your original dealer might give you a more favorable price?

neuronbob

If they can offer a good intro lease on the TLX for the inconvenience, then maybe they will for the RLX, too.

Colin

Hybrid batteries are covered by the Emissions warranty, figure on seven years or 70,000 miles in most states and eight years or 80,000 miles in others. I fully expect to see a cottage industry spring up to provide refurbished battery packs for hybrids by the time this car is out of battery warranty. To a degree, we already see this for the highest volume hybrid out there, the Prius.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

The cottage industry is also striving for maximum profit in catering only to nothing but high-volume hybrid vehicles.

But a limited-production, extremely low volume, premium-priced, hybrid RLX is definitely not one of them.

Besides, due to the extremely low volume, spent hybrid RLX battery packs are hard to come by, to be able to get refurb.

Colin

^^ i'm sure it would be somebody already doing this for other brands. I seriously doubt if we are talking about a company that does one car for one brand only.

pcloadletter

http://greentecauto.com/ Has packs for the first gen Insight and many other hybrids.

Fabvsix

Acura is probably re-designing the suspension due to loose bolts and the fact they keep coming loose and falling out.....Prob. the noises folks are hearing also....NOT impressed with the Quality of the newer Acura's

George Knighton

My American made Acura bought in December 2009 was jaw-dropping quality. Hell of a lot of content and very good quality for the money...really jaw dropping.

Every time I had to drive that car for a longer distance, I couldn't help thinking to myself what a nice care it was.

Although my current Japanese made Acura isn't what I'd call bad, and it's an especially decently contented car for the money, I do *not* find myself thinking over and over what a nice car it is.

George Knighton

I don't mean contented car.

I mean content'd, as in a lot of content for the money.

TSX69

Acura Plans 2nd Half Sales Lift from TLX

LOS ANGELES (Bloomberg) -- Honda Motor Co.’s Acura, struggling to boost U.S. deliveries amid competition from bigger luxury brands, should see faster growth from August with the arrival of a new sport sedan, the division’s U.S. chief said.

The mid-size TLX, priced from $30,995, goes into production at Honda’s Marysville, Ohio, plant this month and will reverse a slump for Acura sedans, Mike Accavitti, Honda’s U.S. senior vice president who leads the brand, said in a phone interview Thursday. He unveiled the car in New York last spring.

Acura’s 1st-half U.S. sales grew just 1.3 percent as a 32 percent drop in sedan deliveries was offset by a 31 percent gain for its MDX and RDX SUVs.

“Finally the moment is here that we’re going to unleash that TLX sedan, and we’re very confident it’s going to bring us the same kind of success we’ve experienced with the MDX and RDX,” Accavitti said. “The TLX is going to be a volume contributor,” he said, without providing a sales goal.

Honda from April 1 elevated Acura to a division within the company, giving it dedicated management, marketing and other resources. The TLX and a promotional push are priorities for the brand as sales for BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Lexus and Audi eclipse those of Acura.

“Acura doesn’t have a big lineup, and sedans are not doing well,” said Takeshi Miyao, a Tokyo-based auto analyst at Carnorama Japan. “TLX has been positioned strategically in the volume zone so I expect adding the model will help it compete with German brands and Lexus.”

Acura sales should be higher than the current pace of about 156,000 units in the U.S. this year, Accavitti said. “I think we can do a bit better than that,” he said, without elaborating.

Acura’s U.S. sales were 165,436 vehicles last year. In the 1st half this year, sales were 77,951 units. BMW led the U.S. luxury segment with 157,382 deliveries, followed by Mercedes at 151,624, Lexus’ 138,689 units and 84,349 deliveries for Audi. General Motors Co.’s Cadillac also led Acura, with 82,117 units sold in the U.S.

Promotion of the U.S.-built TLX begins in August and will be “the biggest marketing campaign we’ve had in Acura history,” Accavitti said, declining to provide the amount to be spent.

June sales for Acura, down 19 percent from a year earlier, were hurt by limited inventory across the brand, and that won’t ease until August, Accavitti said. At that point, along with the TLX, Acura will begin selling a hybrid, all-wheel-drive version of its RLX sedan and have better supplies of MDXs and RDXs, he said.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I feel the same way about my '10 SH-AWD 6MT. It's such a nice, well-made, feature-laden car. It sounds great, it drives great, and it'll drain the blood from from your head in turns. A really brilliant car, IMO.

neuronbob

This is the only part of the report I care about.....though I'm leaning toward a TLX again at this point. The sport hybrid RLX is vaporware to me until I can see one at my local dealership.

hondamore

OOOOOOOO, that sounds like actual OFFICIAL news.

TampaRLX-SH

....whatever.

hondamore

^^LOL - they can begin to sell the hybrid RLX in August with delivery "soon".

As I've said before, I long ago accepted the fact that I won't be getting a new RLX until the 2016 models are out and it has been cathartic with respect to the frustration factor. If the hybrid RLX isn't out by NEXT summer/fall, then my head may explode.

neuronbob

Just kidding, but man this wait is torture.