037

I think you unwittingly hit the nail on the head there with the "fool and money" departing argument.

Who else will be buying this Hybrid if it's not #1 in fuel economy nor #1 in performance.

Why would anyone even consider buying it?

The main attraction is the super handling sport all wheel drive isn't it?

Yet those motors are too weak to give good initial acceleration and completely turn off after 78mph.

So, who is the demographic for this vehicle?

If it's oriented towards fuel economy, the 5-8k difference between FWD and AWD will never be made up over the life of the vehicle so that makes no sense.

Is it for sport AWD? doesn't seem so as dragging one wheel down with an electric motor is very environmentally friendly but you can do the same thing with one tire braking and it's much cheaper and lighter!

So yes, giving people good performance will lead to more sales regardless of how many of them are fools with too much money, because the point is to sell cars, how you get there doesn't really matter for a brand that's flip flopping and nobody knows where it's going.

I want to buy this car, but the trunk is tiny. So now I need performance to justify this car, and that is why I posted not only the acceleration times but also road grip and braking performance.

Braking, an Acura weakness. As an owner of two Acuras with over 5 years combined between the two, they were never good on braking. Why make a car "faster" if you can't stop it?

So yes, there will be fools parting with their money, but unless they hit some good performance numbers, I won't be one of them.

I'm in the 30's btw and yes, I can afford the Advance model if the performance numbers were there.

---End of Rant

TampaRLX-SH

There is nothing unwitting in my comment.

I clearly state if you need the best performance numbers in a car the RLX (either version) is not for you. More humorous is the condemnation before any official stats have been posted and verified by multiple sources.

The fact that some people cannot accept the notion that not all auto consumers insist on the extremes is not a reason to carp on the RLX. It never promised you it would. Honda and Acura as brands compromise for more holistic packages of blended high content and value. They may make high marks in some attributes, even performance but will never satisfy 'king of the hill' mentality.

Acura's approach to sport hybrid is a challenge to blend hybrid attributes with sporting abilities (packaged in a smooth refined package). They believe it is a market territory to exploit.

If you cannot see that for what it is, or that it is not what you desire, fine. Shop elsewhere. Acura may not be targeting your personal needs and desire to reflect your economic status when you are not proclaiming so. They may be targeting a market that desires the blend of the two and not those who can only see extremes. Maybe that is the 'best in class' attribute they seek over best XX metrics. Performance is not any single attribute...so best performance means different things to different people. If someone values performance to be smooth, refine progressive power and acceleration, that is very different than Bugatti beating metrics. Add hybrid technology and AWD into the mix and you have a new classification of what performance means.

Your gymnastics appear to be a need to prove that the RLX is not the car to satisfy you. I do not argue that. Maybe is it your quest to have the best of the best and then tell us all about it. But if you believe your values are the absolute of all automotive consumers, then why have you have failed at making every member of this forum a Hyundai Genesis owner, despite your campaign efforts.

The foolery is whining about something not being what it is not, or worse to buy it and then whine it is not something else it was not intended to be.

Different strokes for different folks.

CL500

I just got back from a very brief test driving of SH SHAWD RLX in San Francisco Bay Area, specifically in Fort Funston, Marina District of SF.
Acura has an event since yesterday, and tomorrow and Sunday (I think). My impressions:

- Brakes are grabby, but you'll get use to it. It's like when I drove my brother old Volvo 240 DL after used to driving a lesser car (at the time) with rear drum brakes. You need to adjust yourself, but, I won't ding the car for this.

- The HUD is awesome. It's unseasonably warm and sunny in SF today (according to my TL's thermometer, it's 67 degree F), but even under the sun, you can see the projected speed and Nav direction).

- Once you drive the car, the car feel smaller than its size. Plus, whatever blandness the car is from the outside, you don't see it from the inside. It's an awesome car to drive-in, if you can forget about the FWD proportions, the stupid bulge in the front wheel well, etc.

- The car's engine shut off when you idle, as it should since it's a hybrid car, or car with start/stop system. There is no shudder during the re-start. It's just seamless.

I am more of a TLX kind of guy. I hope the TLX won't have the strut front suspension to differentiate it from the Accord. Also, if this power-plant is in the TLX body, it'll be ideal for me. But, I know it won't happen (i.e. it'll be just regular SHAWD like MDX).

Oh, BTW, they have the 2014 Full line brochure with the TLX and NSX prototype in it now.

TampaRLX-SH

Just and FYI, when in SPORT mode, the Start / Stop is disabled and the engine continues to idle. I asked if it was measured to what impact that would have on the EPA numbers, but it was not disclosed. I would guess it may drop the city number 1-2 mpg on avg for drivers using SPORT mode the majority of driving time.

037

I guess my opinion as a customer means nothing because it doesn't coincide with yours, I give you that.

As far as selling Hyundai's, I'm not on commission so I don't really care if anyone considers the alternatives.

I'm not in Acura's crosshairs anyway, too young. You on the other hand are due for an upgrade and then you can stroke it for the next 8-10 years.

hondamore

I believe the point some of us are trying to get through to you is that nobody on an Acura forum wants to hear you bash the RLX ad nauseum. We get it. You don't want to buy an RLX. Fine, move on, we don't really care. There are those of us that are here to discuss the RLX (the good and the bad) and not listen to you pump up Hyundai like it is the perfect automobile just because you own one.
I think your Genesis is ugly, slow and lacks any kind of automotive ingenuity. Hyundai is the Ford of asian automakers - they don't create anything new of different, they build cars around a marketing plan. They think if 6 speed transmissions are good then 8 or 10 gear transmissions can be marketed to the masses as better. They lie about their gas mileage so they can pretend to be eco-friendly. They engineer their engines for peak horsepower numbers that they can market rather than for driveability which is why they always disappoint in performance. The simple fact is they do all of that because they can market and sell their cars to those consumers who fall for that kind of marketing - the kind of consumers who just don't appreciate the innovation and engineering that goes into an RLX.

037

that's a lot of hate for someone who seems to know very little if anything on the subject.

Is the Genesis ugly? well, it gets a lot more stares than my RL ever did and half the people can't tell it apart from an S class, so I guess it's that ugly.

Slow? is 335 BMW a slow car? well, I can keep up with them on the highway all day long, try that in an Acura and let me know if you even had time to read the license plate.

obviously I am wasting my time, the end.

George Knighton

I'd use Sport mode more often with my own RLX if it were easier to get it into 6th gear below 70. :-)

If we think about it for a bit, if we think about the kind of fuel economy we were getting just a few years ago, it's flabbergasting that a car as big as the RLX Hybrid gets 30 miles per gallon.

Even consider the regular RLX's real world 25 miles per gallon.

I doubt most of you are old enough to remember this, but the classic VW Beetle of the 1960's only got 25 miles per gallon. And the sacrifice for that was that it's 0-60 time was basically...well...infinity. :-)

And it's funny how many of us consider fuel economy when we are shopping in this segment, as if we feel a need to exhibit a measure of social responsibility whether or not we can afford the fuel costs.

George Knighton

How did you feel about the 7 speed transmission?

I thought they did a great job with it, making it much smoother than other automated manuals like the PDK in Porsches.

In the production car, were they able to tune away the hesitation going into R?

I was hoping that this was part of the delay getting the cars into dealers, because I always felt it would lead to a parking lot fender bender at some point.

neuronbob

I see lots of heated discussion here. I think you guys can agree to disagree without name calling and fanboyism. Glad you are keeping it reasonably civil, though it's just about at the edge, so I haven't stepped in before now.

As far as the current points....

Many of us are fans of the tech. I certainly am.

At the end of the day, though, how much are you willing to pay? That's the primary point I take away from 037's statements. Many people will be pondering this and I think Acura, in its potential decision to limit production, is assuming that most people will opt for the less expensive FWD/PAWS model. The only company that is willing to take a bath on hybrid tech is Lincoln, which prices the hybrid the same as the ICE model.

I mention the price because of of the local Acura dealers is now pushing a $399/mo lease ($4k downpayment though ) for an RLX with navi.

037, the target consumer is people like us who want the latest tech and are willing to pay for it. The end. Often they are previous RL owners, who owned a car that was state-of-the-art at its release.

CL500, thank you for your test drive impressions. Would you be willing to start a new thread so that can be addressed directly, instead of using the review thread, where hardly anyone will see it?

jhr3uva90

I'm looking forward to test driving the Sport Hybrid. Good luck to all.

TSX69

TampaRLX-SH

George,

The RLX SHAWD model I got to experience was a production run model and there was no delay in the Reverse gear engagement.

The dual clutch transmission is very smooth and quick, more instantaneous than the Audi I drove. There is not real lurch of gear shifts yet a very positive engagement. It also is very predictive with blipping the throttle for downshifts. I was impressed over typical Acura transmissions which are typically conservatively geared and tuned. The paddle shifter have finally been awakened. This tranny seems very sophisticated and yet maintains the refinement most of us expect in the RL/RLX.

I think they will amp it up on the TLX for a more aggressive & sporting persona.

George Knighton

Thank you so much. That is very encouraging. :-)

You know what worries me about the TLX 8 DCT? I'm afraid that without the integrated electric motor to smooth it out, people are going to think it's a little rough, like the Porsche PDK.

TampaRLX-SH

I agree. But this would further differentiate the sporting attribute of the TLX and the refinement of the RLX. The electric motor of the RLX SHAWD does mask the engagement of the V6 as well as the START of engine. That refinement, I expect will be less seamless in the more sporting TLX.

This, in general is one of my criticisms where manufacturers bow to the enthusiast carping that every car must be a race car. You achieve those stats and you get a punishing vehicle as your everyday driver. Tight suspension, low profile tires, multi gearing, raspy exhaust and throttle tuning to simulate racecar wannabees is starting to get some kickback in the marketplace. I see more manufactures softening suspension tuning, focusing on ride comfort, NVH, technology features and efficiency as some people still carp that a luxury sedan not capable of sub 5 second 0-60 sprints is the collapse of humanity.

In the Acura family, look at the sales of the softened, refined reboot of the RDX and new MDX. They appeal to the market in record numbers. But the enthusiasts are convinced that the ability to launch an RDX into a tree simply by riding over a railroad crossing is an evolutionary step backward. And frankly, I find more enthusiasts are extremists. They want to beat all competitors in metrics then they whine and moan a 'luxury' car should not be as crude as the NASCAR benchmark they insist upon.

I'd expect the DC tranny in the TLX will be honed appropriately by Acura. I expect that and the mechanical SHAWD TLX will offer a sporting, connected and communicative feeling if less refined than the RLX tranny. I also expect that experience will divide the SHAWD RLX and SHAWD TLX more than by price alone.

CL500

George,

No hesitation. Just like a normal car.
I reversed the car during parking (even though I didn't need to, since the coned parking spot was wide enough to just park forward, but I just want to push different gear selector, and see how it feels).

Also, moderators, sorry for putting this in the wrong spot. I think no need to start a separate test drive topic for my particular test drive, since it was very very brief.

neuronbob

It wasn't in the wrong spot per se. I was just hoping for a thread with driving impressions of the sport hybrid. I'm living vicariously through those of you who have access and time for test drives.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Unlike most, if not all other DCT's on the market, the 8 DCT in the TLX has a conventional torque converter to make things smooth.

dzionny_dzionassi

JonFo

That MotorWeek review was very positive.

I also enjoyed seeing the car in Silver (my choice for my cars), and I think it looks quite sharp. The toned down 'shield' chrome in the SH looks much better than the base RLX.

johndt

If you pay close to $61,000 for an Advance, you should have your head examined. Factory incentives are terrific and as a result, the RLX compares VERY well - especially when you consider the included options that would be very pricey to add to a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi. The Tech package is currently a great deal - and could be had for $45,000!

JM2010 SH-AWD

Many of these reviewers make comments like "there's a lot of competition from other makers in this price range." But they never actually compare available features on an apples to apples (or dollars to dollars) basis. E.g., Acura doesn't hit you for 500-1000 for "metallic paint" unlike some "premium" manufacturers.

johndt

Here's what I got from the Mercedes and TrueCar websites:

037

can't really do apples to oranges like that, MB does not use the same items Acura does. For ex: sound systems can vary wildly and could be worth an extra 2-5k alone.

Of course, RLX does have that crazy depreciation going for it before it even leaves the lot so overall it's a much better value.

But comparisons...they can't be direct.

JM2010 SH-AWD

It doesn't even have to be close - did you see the price delta? $1500 for metallic paint? What are they thinking? What are the people who pay for that thinking? Crazy.

getakey

"MB does not use the same items Acura does"

Hmm - wonder if Hyundai uses different items

crxb

the MotorWeek review was positive - but the one thing I don't like about MotorWeek - is that they almost always give cars positive reviews -- I almost fall out of my chair if I watch the show and they say something negative about a car

johndt

I'm glad that Acura uses different "items" - never needed a repair on any one of the 6 I've owned. As for their ELS or Krell sound systems - in my opinion, no manufacturer has done a better job.

George Knighton

Yup. I tend to like Brian Cooley more than anybody else. He is thoughtful and in depth about how you are going to be living with a car. He doesn't get bogged down in drag strip and skidpad numbers.

The only mistake I've seen him make recently is that he did not understand what "AcuraLink" was in the 2014 model year. He'd had experience with the old kind of AcuraLink and he did not realize that it involved external connectivity, and that the Acura really could do what he wanted (understand an entire address as spoken logically).

Alex Dykes is somebody else who goes very much in depth about how to live with a car. Unfortunately, Alex is a little long winded and he is himself in charge of the video editing. Consequently, some of his reviews will be half an hour long. He makes very good observations, and really thinks about his reviews. But you have to set aside a block of time to listen to him!!

:-)

037

why don't you ask me what a built in Australia Chevy uses...and did I mention 415hp, better handling than a BMW M5 and sexy Brembo's on the front?

yea...brand loyalty is not top of my list, but bang for the buck is not a bad philosophy, very flexible

TSX69

2014 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid Test Drive

Earlier this year, Acura introduced their new 2014 RLX flagship with P-AWS (Precision All-Wheel Steering), powered by a 3.5-liter V6 that produced 310 horsepower and 273 pound feet of torque that metered the driving force to the driving wheels through a 6-speed automatic transmission. Now, there’s a new 2014 model RLX – the Acura RLX Sport Hybrid that introduces an innovative and unique powertrain concept with a total of 3 electric motors.

This latest iteration RLX will employ the same 3.5-liter V-6, while adding a motor-integrated 7-speed Dual Clutch transmission with a built-in 35- kilowatt (47 hp) electric motor with sequential SportShift paddle shifters, Automatic Drive Mode, Grade Logic and Shift Hold Control, with an all-new fully electronic Electronic Gear Selector, shift-by-wire gear selector. Park, Neutral and Drive are selected with the push of a button. Reverse is selected by pulling back a dedicated switch. Indicator lights near the buttons indicate the mode selected, with Sport and Normal modes available.

In addition, the transversely mounted front engine Super Handling-All Wheel Drive, 5-passenger luxury performance sedan with Torque Vectoring eliminates a conventional drive shaft and rear differential, replacing them with twin 27-kilowatt (36 hp) electric motors that independently drive the left and right rear wheels. Each motor can also capture regenerative braking energy and apply negative (regenerative braking) torque to further enhance cornering capability. Total combined horsepower and torque ratings are each 377.

The 2014 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid SH-AWD focuses on the synergy between man and machine, delivering the performance equivalent of a V-8, but the combined fuel economy efficiency of a 4-cylinder engine, while providing exhilarating and precise handling attributes. This synergy is indicative of “Takaburi” (exhilarating) and “Inomama” (at the will of the driver). When compared to its competitors, the new RLX is longer and wider than the Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, Lexus GS series, and Mercedes-Benz E-Class.

In terms of its visual appeal, the 2014 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid SH-AWD blends a sleek overall shape, an “aero-fused” cabin silhouette, and close tolerances for the wheel wells and body-panel gaps for heightened elegance and aerodynamics. The styling begins with a dynamic front-end featuring the RLX’s signature Jewel Eye LED headlights, a substantial presence that imparts a look of power and confidence, while also proving highly aerodynamically efficient, providing powerful down the road illumination and even encompassing advanced pedestrian safety features. Decisive character lines begin alongside the hood, sweeping over the front wheel arches, then along the body sides, which feature lines that subtly rise along the lower body sides, changing the light reflections and creating a visual signature for the RLX.

The cabin is wide and aerodynamic, allowing for a roomy interior and a quiet ride quality as air slips smoothly over the cabin’s flush-mounted available acoustic glass and other drag- and turbulence-reducing design details. Wheel-arches use a much smaller gap to the tire than on the RL, resulting in a poised, integrated and finished look for the profile.

The rear of the RLX body is also dynamic, where the cabin is noticeably wider than that of either the outgoing RL, as well as primary competitors, lending a look of solidity. The wider overall width and wider track is also significantly enhanced compared to the last RL model.

My test 2014 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid SH-AWD was a pre-production vehicle in the highest Advance trim. There’s also a lower priced Tech model available. Official pricing had yet to be announced at the time of this writing, but the models should fall into the following range – Tech trim – $55,000, and Advance Trim – $65,000. My test Advance trim RLX Sport Hybrid sported and exterior finished in Crystal Black Pearl, with the interior executed in Greystone Milano leather.

The Advance Package adds the following to the very well equipped Tech Package: Krell ultra-premium audio system (14-speaker); expanded rear door sunshade; a power-operated rear window sunshade; Adaptive Cruise Control with Low-Speed Follow; Lane Keeping Assist System; parking sensors (2 front/4 rear); ventilated front seats; heated rear seats; front seatbelt E-Pretensioners; a rear seat foot light; and an auto-dimming side mirror. There also a variety of Acura Genuine accessories available to further enhance and personalize the RLX Sport Hybrid SH-AWD.

SUMMARY: Acura had portrayed the 2014 RLX P-AWS version as the epitome of Smart Luxury, but the term seemed to lack substance and didn’t really reflect the car’s true intended image in my opinion. Essentially, it is a spirited, luxury sedan that performs well, is comfortable, and given the content of the Advance model, certainly justifies the price tag, which is lower than some competitive luxury sedans.

Driving the Acura RLX Sport Hybrid defines its place in the segment, with a much higher level of emotional response in terms of its performance. It is an attractive vehicle, but its flagship status would benefit from a greater styling differentiation, setting it apart from its stablemates. Never the less, the Sport Hybrid is so well outfitted and performs so well, it belongs on the list of anyone shopping for an impressive luxury performance sedan.

Acceleration is stellar, handling is superb and the fit and finish top-notch. The seats are highly supportive and comfortable, and the ride quality is firm, but compliant, and the electrically assisted 7-speed DCT transmission is amazing, performing gear changes perfectly and smoothly, with downshift rev-matching that proved to be superior to the ability of most drivers. Shifting was spot on as was the electronic steering input and output. The new Electronic Gear Selector is a prime example of ergonomic simplicity and enhancement.

Until the Acura NSX is debuted late next year (we hope), the RLX Sport Hybrid is the most powerful, efficient and well-equipped vehicle produced by Acura. The NSX will also feature 3 electric motors, but in a reversed format, with the 2 electric motors driving the front wheels rather than the rear. In the meantime, the Sport Hybrid SH-AWD in Advance trim is an ideal luxury performance sedan delivers almost everything 1 could imagine or needs. In fact, if it’s not there, you probably don’t need it, as all the latest, state of the art technologies and features are included in its content.

hondamore

I came across this review of the RLX SHAWD on youtube that I don't recall seeing in this thread. Apologies if it is a repeat post.

George Knighton

Alex gives you a lot of detailed information about living with a car, information that other people leave out. The only person who gives you this kind of insight is Brian Cooley and his team at CNET.

But...Alex is kind of long winded.

I believe that the reason he is not more popular is because people do not have the attention span for his reviews, some of which get up to the 30 minute mark.

Alex also ventures (if you keep your eyes open) a comparison of the 0-60 times of the RLX Advance v. RLX Hybrid. Reports like his, and people openly speaking of his results and comparing them, are the reason they went back to retune the RLX Hybrid for better acceleration times.

4dr4bangrAccord

hyundai

TSX69

randomRon82 post

I just parked beside an RLX Sport Hybrid... sh-awd, at a shopping center. It has a sticker on the dash that says "prototype unit." Anyway... thought I'd share.

This is what bugs me... Why would Acura have a different version of a vehicle and make it look practically identical to its base model? Why would someone want to purchase a 60k/70k+ vehicle that looks exactly like its base 48k version? Is it so difficult to differentiate it a little?... a different grille, a tweak to the tail lights, other minor changes to set it apart... Why is Acura refusing to go back to the Type S? This should be a Type S vehicle. Who's going to buy this?

The same thing can be said for the TLX... I'm not going to want to purchase a 50k SH-AWD Advance that looks exactly like a 32k or whatever base model. I made this mistake when I got my TL Tech SH-AWD... just my opinion, but this is one indication (out of very many others) that Acura is not being serious enough in terms of its identity as a luxury brand.

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^Interesting post, but I don't really much care if others know how much my car cost. In fact, I'd prefer they don't.

JonFo

Same here. I care about how it performs for me. Even better if it does not attract attention from cops looking for revenue or thieves looking for a high-roller score.

TampaRLX-SH

I think even the crickets are tired of chirping.

Although I see the SH RLX in magazine ads (they are booked months in advance) I no longer see SH RLX TV commercials. And I hope I am wrong and just have missed them.

If the TLX delay can be announced, what is the deal with the SH RLX? At this point, I cannot imagine it being launched as a 2014 model.

The lack of information is now, IMHO, becoming a credibility issue for me. Acura, I think this is bad business. I have registered for updates on Acura.com....I have received ZERO. Dealers shrug shoulders.

My anticipation has become irritation. I am going car shopping tomorrow to look at potential replacements for my RL. I will not be visiting my Acura Dealer.

weather

TampaRL....Your frustration with Acura is not just being felt by you. I have been feeling it for month now and I recently sold the 2013 RDX. The TL may be on its way to a new home soon (to another Acurazine member) and not sure what will replace these.

At the moment, I am looking for another daily driver (an every day car) and a new toy. For the daily driver, I have looked at a few options such as a Civic, a Mazda 3, an Accord....are all within 40-50$ a month from each other. Ironically enough, they made us a deal on an ILX that is within 30$ of a Civic but I am so pissed at Acura that I am just willing to not get it just out of spite. I know the Accord is still from the same parent company but I am trying to make a statement here to Acura.....your upscale division SUCKS!!

As my replacement for my toy, I am thinking of getting a Lexus GS350 F sport.....I will have several months to shop as this will not be bought till the spring of 2015.

So all this to say that I feel your frustration with Acura and don't blame you for not stoping at the Acura dealership....I would do the same.

neuronbob

I think TampaRL may soon be TampaA6.

We all feel you, brother. Acura is upsetting loyal owners and ex-owners with recent moves like the loooong delay with the sport hybrid, only to subject us to rumors that barely any will be produced or sold.

*goes to basement to look for long-disused pitchfork*