Continuing our previous conversation...



I found out that even though the 9th gen civic has same engine/ trans as us their flywheel is 17.1lbs and ours is 20lbs

Looks like a no go for that swap
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Today, 3:17 AM #310 rezare
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That doesn't really matter as long as bolt pattern is the same. Weight doesn't matter for the clutch.

The problem with 09 tsx and previous aftermarket clutches was that the bolt pattern was different, that's why they don't go together and you had to get an 8th civic flywheel. So you should check it the bolt pattern for the 9th civic and 09 tsx is the same, and if so they will work together, regardless if the flywheel is actually the same or not.

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Today, 7:28 AM #311 ssjoeboe9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezare
That doesn't really matter as long as bolt pattern is the same. Weight doesn't matter for the clutch.

The problem with 09 tsx and previous aftermarket clutches was that the bolt pattern was different, that's why they don't go together and you had to get an 8th civic flywheel. So you should check it the bolt pattern for the 9th civic and 09 tsx is the same, and if so they will work together, regardless if the flywheel is actually the same or not.

That's exactly what I have been asking all of the suppliers.. and no one has an answer. I even asked Axion, but he never got back to me about it. I thought the sensor only cared about flywheel weight so it didn't make sense to me that if the clutch fit (bolt pattern) then why would I have to switch the flywheel at all.

Im nervous about buying just the clutch pack when no supplier can give me a straight answer about the flywheel.
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Today, 10:06 AM #312 rezare
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I'm inclined to think the 9th civic clutch will work on our tsxes, because they too swaped they flywheels to 8th gen until now if they wanted aftermarket clutches, so their bolt pattern is probably the same as ours. I don't think Honda changed that in just a few years on basically the same engine/trans.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezare
I'm inclined to think the 9th civic clutch will work on our tsxes, because they too swaped they flywheels to 8th gen until now if they wanted aftermarket clutches, so their bolt pattern is probably the same as ours. I don't think Honda changed that in just a few years on basically the same engine/trans.

I looked at both parts, and the bolt pattern is the same with 8mm bolts but the bolts look like they had different part #'s / attributes. I am at work, but haven't checked to see if they are special type of tapered bolts or what..

edit**

Our bolts- 90034-689-000BOLT, TWELVE POINT (8MM) (TOKAI TRW)
Civic Bolts- 90034-P10-A01BOLT, TWELVE POINT (8MM) (ROCKNEL FASTENER)


Edit** NVM I was looking at the wrong bolts. looks like they are both 12mm
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Today, 10:16 AM #314 optimusaccord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjoeboe9
That's exactly what I have been asking all of the suppliers.. and no one has an answer. I even asked Axion, but he never got back to me about it. I thought the sensor only cared about flywheel weight so it didn't make sense to me that if the clutch fit (bolt pattern) then why would I have to switch the flywheel at all.

Im nervous about buying just the clutch pack when no supplier can give me a straight answer about the flywheel.

Shit son, I just realized this... Hit me up on FB. I can send you a picture of the 09 tsx Flywheel this weekend.

I have one sitting in my garage, that came out of my car. I can also include a picture of the stock clutch if you want. I already have pics of the 8th gen civic SPEC clutch/flywheel. Those don't help... but still.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimusaccord
Shit son, I just realized this... Hit me up on FB. I can send you a picture of the 09 tsx Flywheel this weekend.

I have one sitting in my garage, that came out of my car. I can also include a picture of the stock clutch if you want. I already have pics of the 8th gen civic SPEC clutch/flywheel. Those don't help... but still.

haha now Im confused looking at the diagram which bolts we are concerned with. I think my post above is correct that the 8mm bolts are different. Those are the ones we want to check to make sure they fit from the civic. the bolts that attatch the pressure plate to the flywheel. right?

Send me a PM so I can find you on FB
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Today, 10:59 AM #316 optimusaccord
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The center bolts for the center of the FW to the crank are the same.

We are talking about the outside where the pressure plate attaches to the flywheel.

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So we don't pollute this thread with clutch talk I am going to start a new thread to continue.
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Cool. When I get home on Friday night I'll take some pictures and post them up, side by side with the 8th gen civic parts.

I will say this, the 9th gen civic and the 2011 tsx had different part numbers for the pinion shafts, however, both are the same FD, and the gears fit on the shaft the same.

So, the bolts may indeed be the same, all that matters is the thread pitch, and the metric size.

We could ask Axion to purchase one of each bolt for documentation, or if you have access to both you may be able to provide this information.

I did not buy new bolts for my clutch pressure plate to FW mating, so I believe the originals were used. I will check in the box again for verification.

 

I might be able to get my hands on these bolts here at work. Depends on if we are working on anything that needs them. I might be able to pull a design tree or something though..

 

So I'm actually not allowed to share this type of information.. But I think that if someone asked the parts department they might be able to confirm.

 

Here is the diagram found online showing the two:

TSX Clutch Pack



2012+ Civic Si Clutch Pack




The parts in question are item 7 (civic) and item 10 (tsx). The idea behind this thread, is that there is no upgraded clutch pack for the 09+ TSX without swapping the flywheel. Soo if the bolts/bolt pattern for the pressure plate is the same as the 2012+ civic Si then and upgraded clutch pack fitted for the civic should also fit our car with no problem, no matter the weight difference (civic Si flywheel=17.1 lbs and TSX flywheel=20lbs)

Just from the look of the picture it looks like the pattern is different...

 

I have a RSX type s clutch stage 3 and stock flywheel. I wouldn't do a lighter flywheel because the crankshaft is very sensitive and in result of the the car will misfire on all cylinders. I had to learn that a few years back.

 

I'd go the safe route and get the SI flywheel from 8th gen, and a clutch to match that. I see what you are saying about the 9th gen si clutch pressure plate looking different from the cu2 clutch pressure plate.

 

You can disable the missfire error code with the flashpro, it's a false alarm.

I'm waiting for parts at the moment, 8th gen flywheel and exedy stage 1 clutch for rsx type S. The thing is I already have lightweight pulley too, I'm curious if I'll have to disable the missfire codes or not.

 

I don't want to disable misfire codes because I am going forced induction and I think that's an important feature to have when tuning.

I may go with 8thgen flywheel and stage 2 SPEC clutch. I think that's the most affordable route at the moment. Im really hoping that within a few months though something will come out for us.

 

I replaced flywheel with a 2011 civic SI flywheel.

6 puck unsprung SPEC clutch disk, and a SPEC pressure plate and throw out bearing.

 

Ok so Im going down the path of Stage 2 SPEC clutch and an 8th gen Civic Si flywheel.

I've already ordered the Clutch, and soon Ill order the 8th gen flywheel. Hopefully no codes, Optimus you give me hope!

 

ssjoeboe Have you looked at my photo album?

I uploaded pics of the clutch and flywheel.

There are even pics of the differential and everything before it goes on.

 

Alright guys, so I did the Spec stage 2 clutch with 8th gen civic Si flywheel! It's as smooth as butter, even lighter than the OEM clutch. I really like it.

Today on the highway I was cruising at 75mph and went over an uneven bridge (maybe 2 in) and felt the car lurch, and the check engine light started blinking at me. Coasted to a stop and it went away. Unfortunately, I think this was a misfire due to the new clutch setup. Im going to datalog on the way to work and see if it does it again. I really hope not, just hope this was a hiccup and the computer learning the new setup.

Ill keep everyone informed.

 

Well, no codes on the way to work. It ran really smoothly actually. Datalog seemed on point with everything. Even my knock count has gone down. Then again I haven't been doing any spirited driving yet.

 

You are sure it was the CEL and not the VSA light??

My VSA light lights up like a christmas tree all the way to Redline in third gear....

 

Yeah I know what VSA light looks like. It was a blinking Engine (funny enough, that's what I carved in my pumpkin haha). Plus it continued to blink even in neutral unitl I coasted to a stop, and then it went away before even shutting off the vehicle.

We will see what happens on the way home from work today..

 

somebody else posted about the same issue after changing their clutch and flywheel i think... tsxronald maybe? idk. can't remember.

 

Yeah, he was using like a fidanza flywheel or something like that.

He is using the same flywheel, oem 2011 civic SI that I am using.

 

Yeah exactly, Ronald got misfire/ CEL immediately and it was constant. I have same setup as Optimus except stage 2 clutch instead of stage 4.

No problems on the way home today either... idk guys. Like I said Ill keep an eye on it.

 

Did you read the code at all? I keep my BT OBDII diagnostics thing on all the time, maybe you should order one (its only like $15 on ebay) so you can read codes as they come up.

 

I have my HUD plugged into OBDII when I am not datalogging lol but if the problem persists I'm either going to fix the misfire somehow or rule it as "false warning" and turn misfire detection off.

 

Hey optimus,

If you are accelerating at a nice pace and then suddenly let off the gas completely and basically let the engine throttle down on it's own, do you get a kinda weird wooshing/ wind down noise. kinda like "whooooooshh shhhhh shhhh shhhh shhhhhhhh" until it fades to a nice even hum at lower rpms? I know what it used to sound like before the clutch swap but this sounds different (so of course I immediately think something must be wrong if aftermarket parts dont behave like OEM). Just wondering if you have the same thing, or this may be "chatter" or just completely normal?

 

I did get that exact clutch chatter.

That's what I was asking about when the swap originally happened.

It has since gone away more or less.

It is very slight if at all anymore.

 

Ok I figured that as it wore in it would probably go away. I have over 400mi on it now. Still haven't gone WOT, but have done some 70% throttle at like 40mph and it feels a lot better than my oem clutch. I think after feeling this new one, the old one was def slipping..

IN OTHER NEWS... I have more details on the flashing check engine light. Happened again to me on the way to work. I had just gotten to 6500 rpm and shifted into 4th, I wasnt goin that fast maybe 50mph, just wanted to see if my shifting problem had gone away (which it did shift quite smoothly ) and then I hit another 2" bump and CEL starts flashing. I didn't shift into neutral this time and saw that my rpm was dropping, I slowly pressed on the throttle and nothing, no power. I shifted into neutral and then back into 4th, still no power. I pulled off the road and let the light go away. I didn't shut the car off. I waited like 10 seconds then tried to pull back on the road, light started blinking immediately, and no power to the wheels. I then turned the car off and turned it back on. No CEL, and power to the wheels. It's like shutting the car off reset it, and everything was fine.

I can only assume this is misfire detection and the ECU trying to protect my engine. This has happened twice now, and both times were going over bumps. I'm not sure the engine is actually misfiring though. If I had to guess, I would say that because civic flywheel is 3lbs lighter than OEM, if I hit a bump just right the sensor is somehow thrown off due to the weight....

 

sounds like it's going into limp mode. can you just disable that sensor then?

 

Yeah I can disable it actually, and almost everyone on civic side does that when they install a light weight flywheel ( I think some of them have concerns though with passing emissions when they do that, luckily I don't have to worry about that). The main thing is, I just dont want to overlook something if indeed I am actually having a problem. Im like 70% sure it's a false alarm, but what happens if I turn that sensor off and later down the road I really am misfiring.

 

Unless the ECU records data off this sensor and sets some sort of readiness flag (which I highly doubt), I don't think you'd have an issue flipping the sensor back on for emissions (if you ever needed it) since your car won't even be moving during an e-test.

Hoping your theory is correct.

 

Yeah those guys were saying something about readiness never initiatiing or something... but I don't really care about that. I just want to know if disabling that sensor will solve my limp mode problem without blowing up my engine in the long run haha

 

I bet it would cause readiness issues but you could just re enable it a week before emissions or whatever.

I wonder if there is some way to recalibrate the sensor for the new flywheel? probably not though...

 

You would think... Im not even sure how weight affects timing. We are on a timing chain + flywheel OD and teeth are exactly the same as OEM. I just don't know enough about the system as a whole to understand why it thinks I am misfiring.

 

Any guys at work you can ask?

 

My clutch has been on since like Feb/March, and have not experienced this issue.

I do 100% wot, and have tires spinning a plenty. I get the vsa light, I don't get the cel...

Are you low on oil and when you hit the bump the oil is coming out of where the oil pick up is at?

I could be way wrong, I just don't get how it effects your ecu but not mine...

 

I've checked oil, and it still fills the 2nd bubble on the dip stick and has a pretty even color to it.

The only thing that is weird is that my coolant overflow tank is completely empty, yet my radiator is full. I've watched coolant temps and they are steady at 185F.

It's definitely weird, and it's crazy that it's only happened twice with over 500mi. Im just now starting able to be a little harder on the shifts and clutch, we will see if that's got an effect or if the light is just completely random. I also got my new spark plugs in the mail, and my wiring kit for the aftercooler pump so Im gunna continue the build and probably turn off "misfire detection" if it happens again. All the civic guys seem to do this without a problem.

Axion is completely lost as well. He says he is gunna ask his tuner, but Im not sure he will come back with any information I don't already know.

 

Check the coolant reservoir when the engine is cold. Where is the coolant at?

if it is low, you may need to just add some coolant, unless it has a lot of age on it, then maybe do a flush and refill.

 

Joe that flashing check engine light is exactly what my car does if my plug gap is to big it blows the plug out (the rush if air cools the plug down to were it wont fire the rich mixture under boost) the new plugs will fix that keep a small gap like 25-30 thousandths, and my maf sensor would do the same thing whene I got the boost up to 16 PSI or more, are you using the MAF sensor ? and what codes is it throwing ?

 

I'm only using stock MAF sensor. And I haven't been able to capture the code, I data logged for 3 days and it didn't happen again. Then after a week it showed up again, but I wasn't logging. And I'm pretty sure the spark plugs I got are already gapped.

 

Well if it is the MAF and you catch it on a datalog look for the voltage to be at 4.98 for more than a couple of seconds that puts it in limp mode

 

Thanks for the advice. It's probably spark plugs, I've got the new ones and ill be installing those when I install aftercooler. Hopefully by mid November I can begin tuning with VIT

 

Alright... 3rd time is a charm. Now happened again @630mi on new clutch. This time I pulled off the road and plugged in the FP and began to datalog. I think I captured the error.

Stay tuned for the exciting results this afternoon!!!

 

And the results of the CEL as suspected