ceb

And then there are some mods like aftermarket HID kits, high wattage fog bulbs and the like that are flat out illegal and/or dangerous.

HeavyDuty

Apologies to McKeefe & Ecko & the rest of the board for the hijack.

Not really. The designers need to design a car that either meets all of the legal regulations of every country in which it is sold or it must be easily adapted to meet those regs.

They "need to" meaning they do? Or "need to" in a perfect world?

Easily adapted? Then why didn't they? Ceb, the Type-S meets the overseas regs, additional cost for DOT/EPA/NHTSA compliance is what precluded them from bringing the diesel.

In addition, the design needs to be as bulletproof as possible. It needs to run on a variety of gas octanes and hold up to "delayed maintenance."


There's the "need to" again.

Ceb, you're either just being a contrarian, are naive, or believe in an engineering utopia that doesn't exist.

You think bulletproof over-engineering overrides production costs? Seriously? For some reason Honda disregards planned obsolescence? Tell that to the TL-S, CL-S and Odyssey A/T owners.

Fuel requirements obviously must meet the lowest common denominator.

Try not changing your oil, or not saving receipts, then when the dealer tells you your engine is sludged, tell them their engineers should have allowed for "delayed maintenance."

Just because the upcoming SE model doesn't have some options that you think it should have doesn't mean that it is decontented. Decontented generally means raising the price and removing features. A SE generally means some limited edition with special features. It sounds like the upcoming SE actually has some special features and I haven't heard of any standard features that were removed.

Decontented from the vehicle on which it was based, Ceb. Either we play in the worldwide sandbox or don't bring it in to the conversation.

From MotorAuthority;http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...rd-euro-type-s

Why didn't the Type S come straight over as an SE with different DOT, EPA & NHTSA changes? Cost.

Since blown speakers don't appear to be a chronic problem, it appears that yours were either defective or you overdrove them. The engineers and beancounters apparently did a great job with those $2 speakers by getting the ELS system selected as one of the 10 best automotive systems.

It sounded beautiful...in the showroom.

Not chronic? More than two or three compainants here, nice try,Ceb. Were you trying to correlate the speakers with the pulleys? Allow me, ad nauseum.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...Blown+Speakers

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...Blown+Speakers

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...Blown+Speakers

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...Blown+Speakers

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...Blown+Speakers

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...Blown+Speakers

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...Blown+Speakers

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...Blown+Speakers

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...Blown+Speakers

It appears that the OPs mod wasn't "defective," just the wrong mod for his application


Agreed.

Of course every mod has sort of downside. If not, then the manufacturer would have implemented it.

You're posting in circles Ceb, the 'downside' is perception based on each individuals desires. Or, in this case, a manufacturer's desire to appeal to the broadest market they can. My 80 year old Mom doesn't want to listen to a tube & cone style CAI intake.

Virtually every mod bought by members of this forum yields minimal, non-existent or negative gains. A complete system (ECU, intake, exhaust) from a reputable tuner may yield some moderate gains but never equal to the money spent on the mod and install.

You're posting opinions as fact, Ceb. To each their own. Who has the responsibility of deciding what an acceptable dollar/gain is an acceptable ratio? You?

ecko508

It's all good. Basically the moral or the story is. With the pulleys on my car had an issue. When they were taken off the issue was not there anymore. Case in point the pulleys were the problem.

ceb

Clearly we don't see eye to eye and won't, so I'll just drop it. What the hell do I know anyway, I'm only in the industry.

I must correct your rantings about the SE and your incorrect perception about decontenting. The fact that the SE isn't equal to some Type-S sold in other countries is not decontenting - it is merely a different car.

Decontenting refers to a manufacturer removing features that were present on earlier models of the same series and version. An example is BMW removing the ash tray cover from the '09 3 series (and calling it a sunglass holder, deleting a few of the cigarette lighter sockets, the seatback nets, the underhood pad and a handful of other things.

The fact that some options may not be available here isn't decontenting.

The Euro Accord (with the closest equivalent engine) in "Executive" trim that most closely resembles our trim, has front and rear parking sensors, rain sensor and some of advanced tech gizmos that are only available on the RL here in the US. That doesn't mean that our car is decontented.

Equally, just because the SE isn't equivalent to the Type-S doesn't mean that it is decontented - it just doesn't meet your definition of what you wanted to see as an SE.

The diesel wasn't brought to the US for a variety of reasons, the least of which are the DOT/EPA issues. As much as a small minority of us would like to see diesels, the fact remains that the US market won't support a luxury diesel. Diesel in most other countries is far cheaper than super fuel, but here it generally costs more. Diesels have a poor reputation in the US based on Oldsmobile, Cadillac and old 300D MB failures.

Yes, manufacturers must build cars to meet the legal requirements in each country where they are sold. If a feature or system doesn't meet specs (like the coin cubby in the VW Jetta) then it is removed because otherwise the entire car would fail.

Manufacturers need to walk a fine line in deciding if a SE model is economically viable - any changes such as engines, transmissions or seats will require an entire new batch of tests and approvals - including crash testing.

That's the reason most special editions come with few options because all major options require those tests and approvals.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

I am calling BS on this whole complaint of charging system issues. I spoke with my test customer a few weeks ago, who has had the underdrive kit on their car for more than a year now already with nary an issue. I don't believe for one second that an underdrive pulley will cause any harm at all.

ceb

And herein lies another issue with the aftermarket.

First and foremost, no real manufacturer would get on a forum with such a negative attitude towards a customer experience. You aren't here as an individual - you represent your organization and if an organization thinks so poorly about its customers then we must assume that the company motto is "we can build crap and then make nasty comments about the people who buy it.

You don't even comprehend how poorly you come across. I wouldn't buy anything from your organization based on your attitude in public posts.

Now let us get down to particulars.

A manufacturer must build a system that puts up with many different variables, the guy who uses 85 octane as well as the guy who runs 100 octane. The guy who never turns the radio on and the guy who adds (within reason) subwoofers, carputers and other stuff to drain power. Within reasonable parameters, the systems on a car are built to account for those differences and still function.

The aftermarket builds stuff for very specific purposes. They make ECU flashes that work fine as long as you use a specific octane gas or can create underdrive pulleys that work OK as long as there is no additional load and none of the other systems have deteriorated.

The aftermarket community is very quick to point out "shortcomings" from the OE products without real logical arguments. In this case, it was argued that the stock alernator is "weak" causing the issue. The problem with that is that there would be many reports of alternator issues with stock pulleys if that were the case. What is probable is that the charging system (alternators, pulleys, batteries) is sized for that particular application.

You can't really fault the aftermarket. They don't have money to do any real research. They farm out a design to a mom-n-pop cnc shop to make their product, try it out on a test car or two and if nothing blows up in a day or two they declare success and start to sell it on the internet. Don't believe it? Look at the quotes post where the poster "spoke with his 'test customer' a few weeks ago." Do you think the OE world would make a determination if a product worked based on the experiences of a single test customer? Moreover, what OEM would use a "customer" as a tester?

Even better, if another manufacturer has a similar designed engine then they'll just market it for that application too without any testing - hell, that's what customers are for.

Yes, the aftermarket can be cheaper but there are reasons for that.

Let me discuss one example that everyone can relate to - aftermarket taillight housings.

We've all seen them, the clear plastic taillights found on many Civics and the like. A year or two down the road they turn cloudy and the red bits turn pink. You never see pink on factory housings on a car less than ten years old or so.

The regulations require that all external light housings (headlamps/taillamps/blinkers/sidemarkers etc) undergo a 2 year environmental exposure test. That means that a sample housing like the taillamp in your TSX was sitting outside in Japan somewhere for two solid years. Thereafter, it had to be tested to assure that it still kept water out and that the light transmission still met specs.

Do you think that the aftermarket has the ability or interest to do that? Of course not. That is why there is lo legal aftermarket taillight or headlight housing sold in the US.

The same holds true for other parts. The manufacturers put parts to rigorous test and the aftermarket just builds it and sells it.

I do think we need to thank MrHeeltoe for exposing how they design and test (or not) their products.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

ceb, you make some good valid points there, but you might be overestimating the amount of R&D that is actually needed here. We only really need one car to know a part fits and works, and when we have a long term testimonial of the function it is even better evidence that the part is good.

Furthermore, I really take a little exception to the idea that we are really coming off all that bad. There are too many variables involved with this situation to say for sure what is going on with the couple complaints being made. Of course we will never really be able to sort it out until we get our hands on the cars ourselves.

I am not saying this part is for everyone and that is shouldn't have a disclaimer on it...but I am also saying that I will not talk people out of the benefits based on the reasoning that it will "kill your car."

mrstak

iTrader: (1)

Is there any way to install the pulleys wrong? Cuz both ecko and Matt went to the same mechanic I believe? Would it be possible that the mechanic fuckd up somewhere and that's why both their cars drew less power? Is there anyway for the mechanic to mess up or a completely easy swap out part and reconnect? I agree that there are just too many variables in play to correctly point fingers and put the complete blame on one or the other. For HT, everyone that they've installed the pulleys on seem to work fine...so something is working on their end?

ecko508

I still have the alternator pulley from UR on the car. So if there was an
Error installing the crank pulley I'm sure I would have noticed right away! Only thing I can say is I took the UR pulley off and the car is back to normal end of story

ceb

I see your point as well, but I believe it is a bit simplistic.

If, in fact (and I'm taking the two complaints at face value for the time being) the problem went away when the pulley was returned to stock, then the problem certainly seems to be the mod.

This is where the reduced R&D comes into play. Since many people who do this mod may also have other mods with high current draw (lighting, audio etc) it becomes crucial to test the entire system with different loads and then identify limitations. Does it work with a stock system? Probably. Does it work with minimal other mods that may increase electrical loads? Maybe.

The problem may not be your product but the concept behind this type of product - these mods are clearly not suited for people with extra electrical loads because the underdriven alternator puts out less power.

This validates my earlier points that every mod has some sort of downside. If it only had gains then the manufacturer (who has more money to test and much more at stake) would have already done it.

Years ago airboxes were quite restrictive and putting a high performance air intake on a car brought reasonable results. With today's designs and computer controlled engines, the factory airbox is at least as good - and often better - than those aftermarket "cold air intakes" (that suck in hot air from under the car.) The problem is that we still have this 'aftermarket must be better' mentality without thinking it through logically.

Finally, you've got to pay to play. If you aren't mentally and financially prepared to pay for the unintended consequences of your mod then you shouldn't mod.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Aftermarket parts many times are simpler and therefore require much less engineering to create. The fact that they are simpler is often the reasoning for the reduced cost and higher performance. Mods do therefore come with a compromise in many cases, but not always. It is up to the customer to decide if those compromises are "worth it." Labeling a compromise as a car killer, or some sort of dramatic issue based on perspective, does nothing to help people decide if a part is right for them. It has been my stance for years that forum opinions are worth their weight in paper, and for real advice speak to a professional you trust.

At the end of the day, the whole car modding thing has extended so far that some people that have no business at all lifting their car off the ground, let alone modifying things like the accessory drive, are getting into trouble. And before professional mechanics (even dealer ones) get too much credit for their experience, one should note that essentially zero of these people actually have any real training or engineering knowledge. 9/10 of the time it is all on the job, handed down stuff. You can imagine why I take dispute with some of the info folks get from their mechanics.

To mess with your car now a days, you really need to have a good idea of what you are doing. Much of the time this is not the case. Time after time I read inflammatory comments, noises, complaints, compatibility issues....and it is completely due to the fact that people come to forums for advice instead of talking to real professionals who know about the parts they are selling, the design intent, the intended customer, etc...

...namely, Heeltoe. We give full disclosure to anyone who comes looking for it.

I have apprenticed and cut my teeth at a Honda dealer in both parts and service, worked in R&D for a major performance company, gotten an engineering degree, and made countless reliable industry contacts who I bounce things off of before taking a stance. Heeltoe is one of the companies you can trust not to bring a bunch of crap out from behind a counter and claim the sheen will add power with no side effects. I will tell you not to buy things. In short...I am serious and I am not a cheeseball vendor trying to belittle customers to peddle wares (truth be told, we did the initial fitment on this product and have yet to sell any for our effort).

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

This is true but only in cases where you are exploring new territory. For an off the shelf item like this you need to educate yourself before buying . Believe it or not, the internet is not always the best place to get good advice. You sometimes need to get someone on a good old fashioned phone call.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

I can't imagine what the problem could have been, but the incidence of both problem cars coming out of the same shop have the same problem raises a big, hairy eyebrow. In these guys' defense, I have only done one. But it is a good solid one running around with a stock belt and has about a year of driving on it already.

ceb

Yes, the internet is a big scary place where everyone is an expert.

Equally scary are the dealership techs who seem to lack understanding of the products they service. They are great at following instructions in a manual about how to swap out parts but seldom have any real technical savvy.

You won't like my comment about the aftermarket either, but that segment if filled with small companies that often lack understanding as well. They develop a design, get it machined, test it in one car (if it works there it'll work anywhere) and sell it. Many claim to be knowledgeable but in fact fail to see the bigger picture - like how a product tested on one car might fail on others.

Please give me an example of one mod that has no downside - bumperstickers and like items excluded (although they have downsides as well.) The aftermarket can only produce cheaper products by cutting R&D or bending (or breaking) regulations. The most successful and respected aftermarket companies (AMG, Dinan, quattro, A.C Schnitzer, Alpina etc.) are ridiculously expensive because they do proper R&D and follow regulations.

mkeefe

The only BS here is the companies vehemently defending this product when I had it installed in a stock (excluding headlights) 2011 TSX. However before you cast blame on that headlight mod I already had the car tested with them off and even removed, to ensure everything was stock. I now realize the car is under driven but seriously think this product was not meant for a TSX w/ tech as that obviously draws more than the base model.

I have no explanation for why the "test car" is running fine, maybe its an older model and doesn't have tech. Maybe the hard drive in the 2011 added to the beefed up stereo system pushes the battery to its limit.

All i'm saying and all I wished to accomplish was to originally hope the company (UR) would help me diagnose and possibly stand behind their "amazing service" when in reality they sucked so badly (seen on this forum and via email) at every chance. Now HeelToe (a UR dealer) is coming to defend this product! Are the margins on profit so low that any bad publicity kills your bottom line? Jesus, spend time testing the product and less time calling out legitimate customers.

At this point I am done with this whole thing, I called the proper people, tried to get help, got nothing and learned never to buy from UR or Heeltoe ever. The only company to offer any help was Throwdown Performance where he mentioned he'd help anyway he could during the process.

@Ceb - I appreciate you defending the allegations and even stating all mods have downsides. I don't think thats 100% true but I do believe the companies have a responsivilty to test their products and clearly explain the pros/cons in a "new modder" friendly way. However excluding that just don't have horrible customer service if a customer does have an issue.

UR & Heeltoe could learn a thing from companies like Amazon, Apple and Zappos. They all know how to treat a customer, something these guys so clearly never learned.

Matt

ecko508

Id love to know how you installed the UR pulleys on a 2g tsx with a stock belt.....the UR pulleys have a smaller diameter crank pulley resulting in a different belt and routing pattern, could this have attributed to the problem, maybe so. But all i know is when i took the product off my car it fixed it so therefor my blame goes on the product. And matt i agree i think the tech package was just to much power draw for the pulleys to handle. Again another thing UR should have looked into

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

J-series Acura J-pipes. Add power, imperceptable change in sound, no reliability issues, no impact on emissions...good part.

Matt, if you ever bought from us and had a problem with a product you bought from us, you wouldn't be talking about us like this. I have the following used parts here I took back on full refund, simply because the purchasers did not like the parts:

Tein S-tech for 09- TL (said the car didn't lower as advertised)
P2R downpipe for 08- Accord (said it didn't fit and made car lose power)
P2R Throttle body spacer 09- TSX (customer said it lost power)
Takeda intake for 09- Accord (again, power loss??? whatever)

I have taken all these parts back and more, which were all installed, based purely on the fact that the customers were unhappy with them. If you have not returned your part to Throwdown for a refund or store credit by now, go ahead and do that.

Um the routing pattern did not change at all. That is absurd. The belt is a little on the long side for the smaller crank pulley but there is no real impact on the car or the function. Maybe the Tech package does make a difference. Maybe not, we can't be sure.

Anyone with a Tech 09- TSX in socal wanna come by for me to test?

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

I just read through this thread a bit more...man we got some real hot heads with 2g TSXs here don't we?

Guys, if you really think the product is bad just return the damn things. If the companies that sold them to you don't have the balls to take them back, email me. I am sure I can give some credit for them. These same pulleys work on 1G TSX and RSX as well. Someone will want them.

its rayden

this was my point pages ago. this product was not tested properly for our cars and therefore should not have been advertised as being applicable for it. if it was tested properly, you would know the answer instead of now asking someone to come in and test it.

thanks for confirming.

AND, it only got hot when the part developer came in to bitch out the customer.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

The whole attitude here just kinda stinks. The guy from UR can be a real butthole, I know it. But IMO nobody here is being really constructive. Truth be told, I doubt tech package has anything to do with it and there really was no significant reason for anyone to think that it would (you could make up a few reasons but it doesn't make it true). But I would happily try it out on someone's car to see.

ecko508

Makes me wish I bought these pullies from you. I asked both throwdown and UR to offer me a refund and I'll return the product and I was denied. Well lesson learned im out 500+ dollars in the whole adventure and I'm still not happy about it but there's nothing u can do about bad customer service. I've always liked mark from throwdown, he gave me a great deal on the pulleys and he's always been helpful. But now I do wish I bought them from heeltoe. And yes the belt routing was different from stock. This is what I was told by throwdown to do. He provided the gates belt and the different routing pattern.

optimusaccord

Do they have a stock diameter pulley? I am hesitant to purchase anything that won't work with the CT supercharger setup in the future.

ceb

Maybe that's why Amazon, Zappos and eBags are successful profitable companies while UR and Heeltoe aren't.

ceb

Really? How do they increase power?

KillerG

could be because those companies sell to an incredibly wide market

its just a guess

ceb

The stuff in bold demonstrates my earlier point. This is not the way to treat customers regardless of who is right.

Go to cadillacowners.com. That's one of the few boards where there actually is a company rep on the board. I feel sorry for her because she is always nice and helpful and either tells a poster how to resolve an issue or tells them why it can't be resolved - always nice, no matter how stupid the poster is. You need to go there and get some pointers. You can't be "one of the guys" and represent your company.

Now let's get to your point in italics

This again demonstrates my point. The part was tested on one TSX, but since the pulleys are the same size as the 1G and the RSX they'll work on that too.

mkeefe

Guys, I think I misspoke in my last post. I didn't mean to say I bought this part from Heeltoe, I just wasn't impressed with their responses. However the fact they are even offering to possibly help out when their competition won't really puts them in a new place. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

I just contacted you via email. Thanks for even offering!

Matt

mkeefe

While a good point, customer service is in no way connected to the size of the company. I just picked them as they are known by most non-geek types. However if smaller company examples are needed then you have:

LivingSocial, Woot, Groupon, Heroku, 37Signals, Wordpress and Wufoo.

However this is very off topic.. haha.

Bearcat94

Less exhaust restriction. So it doesn't "add" power, but lets you use what the engine makes more effetively.

Dyno gains (handful of different users) show, say, ~10 WHP.

Here's a fairly early version. Since this product, there have been 2 or 3 other manufacturers. Each of those have gone through a two or three versions, each one trying to improve overall effectiveness.





https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/got-j-pipe-694736/

ceb

So, you wanted downsides. Let's look at a few.

The increased exhaust flow can lead to an "overload" of the catalytic converter system and either reduce gains or cause early cat failure.

Many systems cause O2 sensor problems

Most systems will increase exhaust noise. Sometimes above allowable legal limits

If there were no downsides then the manufacturer would have done that already - they want free power too.

HeavyDuty

Oh, Christ on a bike, Ceb! LOL Who said anything about cheaper products? Veddy intelesting how you only espoused the benefits of teutonic manufacturers & tuners.

Anyway, you have still failed to acknowledge that your perceived downside to *all* mods is an opinion. Granted, any/all of this stuff has to be matched as a system.

MOD......................................... Benefit .................................................. ...........Detriment

CAI's .........................................Increased power............................................. .Sound?
Headers .....................................Increased power. ............................................Cost?
Exhaust .....................................Increased power. ............................................Sound?
Cams .........................................Increased power. ............................................Idle?
Suspension ................................More control. .................................................. .Ride quality?
Lrg dia whls ...............................Sharper turn-in ...........................................Inc unsprung wgt?
S/C .........................................Increased power. ............................................Cost?
Turbo ........................................Increased power................................. Cost & underhood temps?
Nitrous ......................................Increased power. .........................................Bottle fills?
HP clutch................................... Pwr hndling increase......................................... Stiff pedal?
Light FW.................................... Less rot mass. ..............................................Lack of inertia?
Short shifter ..............................Reduced lever travel. ....................................Stiff to operate?
RH Drive....................................None..... ..............................................Can' t p/u drive through.
.................................................. .................................................. .........Can't pass on 2 lane road.
.................................................. .................................................. .........Piss off cops.
.................................................. .................................................. ........Always drift to the left.

If I understand you correctly, Ceb, the "detrimental effects" as far as you're concerned are, for the most part, a benefit to those who purchase and enjoy these modifications.

Truth be known, you're not an enthusiast, Ceb, wear it.

Oh, and my 25 years in the business or my ASE certifications aren't worth any more than yours are, I know.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm, UR has been around for nearly 20 years and I am about to have a 10 year anniversary in February...We have been increasingly profitable year after year, and, in case you failed to look ANYTHING up on Heeltoe at all on Acurazine, we have the best reputation we have ever seen for customer service. Anyone who wants to refute this has no idea what they are talking about because they never did business with us. In fact, we research Amazon and Zappos and try to model our practices after these companies. This, even though we don't own markets and buy down pricing with volume.

By increasing the flow of the exhaust and increasing exhaust volume near the engine.

I am not treating any particular customers in any particular way by commenting on the borderline mob-mentality going on here (don't believe that is what is going on? Try looking from the outside in). I have been on Acurazine for a long time, and this community used to have somewhat of a different feel to it...at least the 1G TSX and 3G TL did. IMO the 2G TL people seem to really be the most wholesome group. Just saying that is my experience.

I used to spend lots and lots of time in the forums educating, and helping people, but recently have found that, regrettably, that takes time away from further developing my business.

I am not saying you guys are wrong in what you are saying, or wrong for being a little upset at this whole thing. But somehow I got to be a target here for offering my equally valid opinions on the matter at hand. Yeah I am using some frank language, but nowhere near as inflammatory as what being thrown at me. And then come the judgements.

I am being judged here and I have not even had a chance to work with any of you guys. Seriously...how can just justify attacking Heeltoe in this case? Because I am not siding with you is the only thing I can see. I am not siding with anyone. I am now effectively saying "I don't know if tech package makes a difference. Bring me a car and I will find out."

What is wrong with me here?

1) I have never heard of this happening on any car ever, and even if it does it is not the case with the J-series engine converter configuration. This sounds like a speculative point to me. Just the same, it is a non-issue. The J-pipe causes no emissions problems whatsoever.

2) I have never heard of this either, and I do not believe it is true at all. If a sensor issue comes up it is going to be due to installation error in most cases. Changing or deleting converters will cause an engine light. However the, the j-pipe does not have any sensor locations and does not effect placement or function of any sensors. In fact, all sensors are up-stream of the j-pipe.

3) This part is just a component of the exhaust, not a whole system. There is a slight change in to the engine note when installing a j-pipe but nothing significant enough so as to be blatantly "aftermarket." There is no noise impact from a J-pipe install that is even close to being considered something as a negative, from inside or outside the car.

There are no downsides to a j-pipe, especially a V2 from ATLP. Nice try. The factory put an adequate part in there, but by no means an optimized one.

But this is a stupid thing to go on about. Your claim(s) are all false here. It is ok, nobody expected you to know about J-pipes. And you are right that 9/10 of the time there is some compromise you are going to have to make with just about every aftermarket performance part you buy. Totally true. I just don't happen to believe that j-pipes or crank pulleys fall into that category.

HeavyDuty

MUAHHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!! An overload of your self-proclaimed over-engineered catalyst?

I can't resist...Ceb, you're a buffoon.

A mandrel bent J Pipe would be prohibitively more expensive than a crush bent pipe. There's that "C" word again...COST. There's NOTHING free about an increased cost to produce a pipe like the one above for mass production.

Please don't start about a crushed pipe not having any effect on performance. Once a pipe is crushed over 50% of it's original diameter, it becomes restrictive. That's fluid dynamics, not opinion, and that pipe is crushed more than 1/2 of it's original diameter.

Besides, that J Pipe reduces the boundary layer of the flow over the interior walls, reduces turbulence and increases velocity, so...BULL HONKEY before you even begin.

Bearcat94

First thing I'm going to tell you is don't quote me out of context. I NEVER claimed there is no downside. When you quote me and then post, "So, you wanted downsides." it looks like I've said different. You asked how they increase power, and that is ALL I responded to.


Next, those items you listed:

- I've got two primary cats in front of the J-Pipe and, in OE configuration, a high flow 3rd cat that serves little or no purpose. It's not going to get "overloaded";

- There are NO O2 sensors after the J-Pipe;

- It does not increase noise, although it does slightly change the tone (lower). Regardless nothing near legal limits. YOU wouldn't know it wasn't stock.


Finally, instead of posting random BS about "downsides" do some actual research. There have been issues. Relatively minor, but issues none-the-less.

For ANY aftermarket part there are ALWAYS risks and/or trade-offs. Do your homework and make an informed decision. Unlike the two disgruntled pulley posters here.




FWIW - I've been running a STOCK sized UR pulley for 3-years and about 32,000 miles with no issues. None.

Why anyone would run an under-sized set with out FULLY understanding the potential impact on the charging system is beyond me. And if they DID understand the potential impact and decided to do it anyhow, who's fault is that?

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

The impact is so minor man...I think it really just depends on the car. Despite the fact that recent Hondas seem to have sorta sucky electrical systems I have never once in a year of constant use had trouble with the UR under-drive stuff on my TSX.

PyroDave

this has turned into not much more than a pissing contest. earlier, though there was a lot of epic bickering, it was slightly informative. i learned a bit. but now, really i feel as though this has become a waste of time.

Marcus, i've seen how you handle things, and honestly it seems as though you do a really good job and care a lot about customers. but you are human, and respond as such, and to that yea i can see you get a little aggravated, but there are times when you are ATTACKED. be it out of jest or not, its kinda painful to watch. on one hand, i understand a few people being upset that you have had their money for over half a year, and still don't have a final product. on the other hand, you've apologized numerous times, it seems as though you did "bite off more than you vcan chew" and therefore got delayed, but you want a superior product which will not cause problems, so you refuse to cut corners. i totally respect that. you are even offering to buy or give some credit for these pully's even though they weren't even bought from you. that is outstanding and truly above and beyond, and that will hopefully help you succeed. i wouldn't hesitate to buy from you after everything i've seen and read here.

i just had to get that out there because heeltoe is attacked so often, and while i see the reason, i feel as though he really is trying his best and does deserve our support, or atleast to heed the warning "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all". if you buy something from him, or need to contact him, he has listed it many times. contact him through email or on his website. he can't physically spend that much time on here, and i feel as though lately, he's felt he must to simply defend his name a bit. and the more he is on here, replying to BS, the less time he spends working on our products.

i won't comment on anyone else at the moment, but i'll simply say this. while everyone is entitled to an opinion(to a certain extent), you must be willing to hear other sides of the story, or keep your mouth shut. to engage in a battle of the wits, one must atleast enter with an open mind. be NICE. this has simply turned into a match of e-peen. stop measuring, and figure shit out to prevent problems so everyone can be happy. at this point, pretty much everyone(except me obviously) has been EXTREMELY wrong here at least once. cmon, members and vendors attacking each other, while mods sling extra poo around? grow up eh?

be constructive, and keep this going to try to reach a good end, if your gonna bitch and attacck peoples comments/opinions/knowledge, please don't bother posting. makes it difficult for me to learn stuff on here

09TSXTech

^Nicely said. Let's be civil and constructive here.

ceb

Correct. I find it particularly disturbing when "senior moderators" launch into personal attacks.

mkeefe

@PyroDave - Couldn't agree more. I was just here to get some insight and warn of a potential problem with a part. Didn't dream of 5 pages of pissing wars and over 3k views. Its nice to get opinions but facts would help others immensely. At this point I am in the process of working with Marcus from Heeltoe who is a stand up guy. Despite what others said (including myself originally), he knows how to run a company!

Matt

ecko508

I also am hoping to work with marcus from heeltoe.....seems to be a stand up guy and willing to help us with our pullies....more than i can say for some companies (no names given) definitley will recommend heeltoe to anyone looking for quality support when buying products for there car