UR Pulleys on 2011 TSX killing the car
07-27-2011, 03:27 PM
#41
Senior Moderator
Hey guys,
Its been a while since I posted but I have some pretty serious news. First lets start with a little backstory.
Earlier this year I did a number of things to my car, lights, rims, intake. Lastly I decided to shave a few more lbs and add a few ponies (horsepower) to the car so I purchased a UR underdrive pulley kit. After having it installed I quickly noticed the car "pulled harder" and it was awesome.
Fast forward a few months and one day my car won't start, though it did the prior night and nothing was left on or plugged in that shouldn't be. I called AcuraCare and had the car towed to Prime Acura (where I bought it). They tested the battery and everything checked out so they said it was a negative draw and possibly the computer. They reset everything and gave the car back to me. About a week later the battery dies again and I have to tow it back to Prime. This time they replace the battery and all looks good. A few days ago I noticed the lighting was dimming and then the car threw a "Charging System" error and illuminated the battery indicator. I let the car run and it turned off but at this time I knew something major was wrong. After alternating lights, stereo and dome lights I could effectively drain the battery in a matter of minutes. Clearly something needed to be done.
The next morning I took it over to Herb Connolly* since I had to make a meeting and talked to the tech. They looked over my car, noticed the UR pulleys and tested the alternator. It was reading at 11.5 (standard for the TSX is 14) and he noted the belt routing AND pulley size was causing the alternator to run slower and struggle to charge the battery.
After hearing that I immediately had them install the OEM pulley setup and the charging indicator ceased to appear, the alternator tests at 14.0 and the battery now properly gets a charge. As you can tell the only thing I had removed was the UR Pulleys.
Of course after these findings I contacted Unorthodox Racing (UR) and got a blanket "its not us" response. Needless to say I am pissed and very surprised a niche company would outright deny something without some facts or information from me. Needless to say I am out hundreds of dollars, lost clients (due to dead car) and many hours wasted, all for a few minor gains.
In closing, I just wanted to add this experience in hopes of saving someone time and frustration. If your charging indicator is coming on, battery dying and you recently installed pulleys thats a good place to start looking.
Update: I will be posting the pulleys either on Ebay or directly on AZ in a couple of days if someone wants to get a deal of their lifetime (I simply want the last service cost reimbursed).
* Oh and my latest experience with Herb Connolly of Framingham MA was so much better than my first
Its been a while since I posted but I have some pretty serious news. First lets start with a little backstory.
Earlier this year I did a number of things to my car, lights, rims, intake. Lastly I decided to shave a few more lbs and add a few ponies (horsepower) to the car so I purchased a UR underdrive pulley kit. After having it installed I quickly noticed the car "pulled harder" and it was awesome.
Fast forward a few months and one day my car won't start, though it did the prior night and nothing was left on or plugged in that shouldn't be. I called AcuraCare and had the car towed to Prime Acura (where I bought it). They tested the battery and everything checked out so they said it was a negative draw and possibly the computer. They reset everything and gave the car back to me. About a week later the battery dies again and I have to tow it back to Prime. This time they replace the battery and all looks good. A few days ago I noticed the lighting was dimming and then the car threw a "Charging System" error and illuminated the battery indicator. I let the car run and it turned off but at this time I knew something major was wrong. After alternating lights, stereo and dome lights I could effectively drain the battery in a matter of minutes. Clearly something needed to be done.
The next morning I took it over to Herb Connolly* since I had to make a meeting and talked to the tech. They looked over my car, noticed the UR pulleys and tested the alternator. It was reading at 11.5 (standard for the TSX is 14) and he noted the belt routing AND pulley size was causing the alternator to run slower and struggle to charge the battery.
After hearing that I immediately had them install the OEM pulley setup and the charging indicator ceased to appear, the alternator tests at 14.0 and the battery now properly gets a charge. As you can tell the only thing I had removed was the UR Pulleys.
Of course after these findings I contacted Unorthodox Racing (UR) and got a blanket "its not us" response. Needless to say I am pissed and very surprised a niche company would outright deny something without some facts or information from me. Needless to say I am out hundreds of dollars, lost clients (due to dead car) and many hours wasted, all for a few minor gains.
In closing, I just wanted to add this experience in hopes of saving someone time and frustration. If your charging indicator is coming on, battery dying and you recently installed pulleys thats a good place to start looking.
Update: I will be posting the pulleys either on Ebay or directly on AZ in a couple of days if someone wants to get a deal of their lifetime (I simply want the last service cost reimbursed).
* Oh and my latest experience with Herb Connolly of Framingham MA was so much better than my first
2nd, its an underdrive pulley. It will underdrive the accessories. Especially at idle. You had it tested. The test showed
The next morning I took it over to Herb Connolly* since I had to make a meeting and talked to the tech. They looked over my car, noticed the UR pulleys and tested the alternator. It was reading at 11.5 (standard for the TSX is 14) and he noted the belt routing AND pulley size was causing the alternator to run slower and struggle to charge the battery. What was the results when the engine speed was increased (like when driving) My car has a UR underdrive on it. It is the same 11.5ish at idle but 13.7 while driving. I have OVER 230k miles on it with it with NO issues.
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Throwdown (07-27-2011)
07-27-2011, 03:30 PM
#42
SeeYou2Crew #2
as much as i "enjoy" internet drama, i think this is actually quite informative. thanks everyone for sharing your experience, hopefully this will turn out well for most unhappy cu2 owners.
07-27-2011, 03:36 PM
#43
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=827569
Then people will be forewarned and might not have to go through what you did.
07-27-2011, 03:49 PM
#44
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I thought the OP does not have an aftermarket stereo in his car?
Is there another pulley that can be used on the alternator to make it spin a little faster to compensate the voltage drop?
Is there another pulley that can be used on the alternator to make it spin a little faster to compensate the voltage drop?
07-27-2011, 03:52 PM
#45
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What was the reason you installed the kit? I just don't understand what you were trying to accomplish. The TSX is a neat car and all that but you wanted to add the additional minor HP gain to the small 4 cylinder? At the gain of a few HP vs. the long term affects it will have on your engine? I just think logic and money weren't entirely used when making the initial purchase & installation. Good luck in the future and hopefully you will get the money you paid for it back.
07-27-2011, 05:31 PM
#46
Карты убийцы
Should have dropped the $ for the V6 and have been done.
If you want to pay and play, go American like Chevy. There is no replacement for displacement.
If you want to pay and play, go American like Chevy. There is no replacement for displacement.
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AMUA6 (07-27-2011)
07-27-2011, 05:48 PM
#48
Developer & Car Fan
Thread Starter
I appreciate the support and even like that Throwdown/others came in to provide some very informative information. In the end it was a complicated situation that has taken far too many resources both in money and time to get to no resolution, but such is life.
Thanks all for the reading/posting.
Matt
07-27-2011, 06:09 PM
#49
Its the same thing on the accord forums, anytime someone mentions any performance mods for the i4 some fucking smug jackass always comes in the thread and is like "HURR DURR WHY YOU NO BUY V6 BRO, ITS SO FAST HURR FUCKING DURR"
Seriously though, jesus christ, shut the fuck up everyone with a v6, we got the point, you have 2 extra cylinders and you feel a false sense of superiority
Im not trying to be hatin on you professor, dont me wrong cause your a cool fucking guy and this isnt directed at you specifically, im just venting here, and this is one of the reasons i hate the accord forums, its seriously in like 40% of the threads there
and @ the op:
DAAAAYYUUUMMMM
i never see the vendors, but apparently they all get together to lay the smack down on people once in a blue moon. where the hell are you guys when the rest of us talk shit about your products ??!?!
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4dr4bangrAccord (08-05-2011)
07-27-2011, 06:17 PM
#50
David_Dude
I finally read the whole thread (decided it was necessary). A lot of people commented with some lame comments. To the OP glad your car is running better. I personally wouldn't mess with pullies. And I've noticed it's a hit or miss with other cars depending whats all drawing current of the car's system.
Long story short, sell the pullies and be done with it and continue enjoying your CU2.
07-27-2011, 07:39 PM
#51
I can chime in and offer something. We tested the very first 09+ TSX kit right here on a real customer's car. That was about 5-6 months ago. We have not heard a thing back from them.
Simply stating that the system was charging low does not tell us the whole story. Was that just at idle? Were there a bunch of accessories on? In other words, was the test indicative of your real-world driving conditions? I am not looking for answers, but hopefully offering up some level of perspective...
The dealers are usually ready to blame any aftermarket part for their lack of ability to diagnose. It might or might not be the case here...just saying.
You and your friend having issues only really supports the fact that if both of you did something out of the ordinary then you would both have the same issues. Now the fact that you both had a problem might support the idea that there is a problem with the product, but by the same token the fact that others are not having problems suggest that maybe you both messed something up. You said the dealer commented on your belt routing....did you route properly? If not you can get slipping which will surly under-charge....
Just sayin.
Simply stating that the system was charging low does not tell us the whole story. Was that just at idle? Were there a bunch of accessories on? In other words, was the test indicative of your real-world driving conditions? I am not looking for answers, but hopefully offering up some level of perspective...
The dealers are usually ready to blame any aftermarket part for their lack of ability to diagnose. It might or might not be the case here...just saying.
You and your friend having issues only really supports the fact that if both of you did something out of the ordinary then you would both have the same issues. Now the fact that you both had a problem might support the idea that there is a problem with the product, but by the same token the fact that others are not having problems suggest that maybe you both messed something up. You said the dealer commented on your belt routing....did you route properly? If not you can get slipping which will surly under-charge....
Just sayin.
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Throwdown (07-27-2011)
07-27-2011, 07:41 PM
#52
Just so were clear. Unorthodox is a horrible company. And yes they were purchased from throwdown, mark from throwdown is the best guy ive ever dealt with for customer service, product knowledge, and pricing and anyone buying parts for the CU2 or any other car should be going through him.
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4dr4bangrAccord (08-05-2011)
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4dr4bangrAccord (08-05-2011)
07-27-2011, 10:05 PM
#55
Senior Moderator
07-27-2011, 10:06 PM
#56
Senior Moderator
Just so were clear. Unorthodox is a horrible company. And yes they were purchased from throwdown, mark from throwdown is the best guy ive ever dealt with for customer service, product knowledge, and pricing and anyone buying parts for the CU2 or any other car should be going through him.
07-28-2011, 12:36 AM
#59
ive already stated the pullies arent for me but like ed said im genuinely curious as to whats ailing our resident bostonions cars
07-28-2011, 09:31 AM
#61
Senior Moderator
Regional Coordinator
(Mid-Atlantic)
Regional Coordinator
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iTrader: (6)
So OP got the wrong sized pulley, and the wrong sized belt, but it's UR's fault? 
07-28-2011, 10:03 AM
#62
so what i'm hearing is that this product has not been tested on a 2nd gen TSX. i shake my head at the notion that a product is tried and true for this particular platform just because it has worked on other platforms. if the product has never been officially tested on a new platform, meaning someone put it on, tested the load and efficiency of the alternator, and did real world tests, then consider yourself lucky that only 2 people are having problems thus far.
you can't claim support for a platform you never tested on unless you can show that all variables that could effect performance are the same between a tested platform and an untested one. one slight change can break the whole system. from your own admission (throwdown), the TSX could be drawing more power in stock form than other platforms. this is an issue that should have been taken into consideration before marketing this product for use in a 2nd get TSX.
btw, i'm not saying the pulley is the problem here, i'm just bringing into question how vendors are claiming support for platforms that haven't been tested.
you can't claim support for a platform you never tested on unless you can show that all variables that could effect performance are the same between a tested platform and an untested one. one slight change can break the whole system. from your own admission (throwdown), the TSX could be drawing more power in stock form than other platforms. this is an issue that should have been taken into consideration before marketing this product for use in a 2nd get TSX.
btw, i'm not saying the pulley is the problem here, i'm just bringing into question how vendors are claiming support for platforms that haven't been tested.
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4dr4bangrAccord (08-05-2011)
07-28-2011, 10:32 AM
#64
WTH happened to my garage
One of the two posters had a system, from reading above, I was speaking in generalities. Didn't mean to muddy the water.
Yes, the stock alternator pulley can be used with the underdrive crank pulley & it will spin slower, but not as slow as with the larger U/D pulley.
OP, it might be worth it to pull your alternator and take it to AutoZone & they can bench test it on a duratester (actually spin it and give you a printout of the readings free from any issues that *may* have resulted in a low reading while reading the output still connected to the engine bay harness.)
OP, it might be worth it to pull your alternator and take it to AutoZone & they can bench test it on a duratester (actually spin it and give you a printout of the readings free from any issues that *may* have resulted in a low reading while reading the output still connected to the engine bay harness.)
07-28-2011, 10:41 AM
#65
^bench testing it will go a long way to isolating the problem
i bet by this point OP has already spent alot of his own money/time on this issue and just wants it to be over with instead of ferreting out the issue
i bet by this point OP has already spent alot of his own money/time on this issue and just wants it to be over with instead of ferreting out the issue
07-28-2011, 01:03 PM
#66
Карты убийцы
KillerG, you have a different opinion, but that's o.k. and you don't dis people for their opposing viewpoints. You are better than 99.9% of the others I butt heads in this forum.
07-28-2011, 02:08 PM
#67
LOL... I've nothing to contribute to fix this issue; however I found interesting an aftermarket company trying to blame aftermarket mods! I thought only dealerships talked like that!!! LOL
Again, I know they had all the right to ask that question to see compability but it really sounded odd to me.
Again, I know they had all the right to ask that question to see compability but it really sounded odd to me.
07-28-2011, 02:45 PM
#68
so what i'm hearing is that this product has not been tested on a 2nd gen TSX. i shake my head at the notion that a product is tried and true for this particular platform just because it has worked on other platforms. if the product has never been officially tested on a new platform, meaning someone put it on, tested the load and efficiency of the alternator, and did real world tests, then consider yourself lucky that only 2 people are having problems thus far.
you can't claim support for a platform you never tested on unless you can show that all variables that could effect performance are the same between a tested platform and an untested one. one slight change can break the whole system. from your own admission (throwdown), the TSX could be drawing more power in stock form than other platforms. this is an issue that should have been taken into consideration before marketing this product for use in a 2nd get TSX.
btw, i'm not saying the pulley is the problem here, i'm just bringing into question how vendors are claiming support for platforms that haven't been tested.
you can't claim support for a platform you never tested on unless you can show that all variables that could effect performance are the same between a tested platform and an untested one. one slight change can break the whole system. from your own admission (throwdown), the TSX could be drawing more power in stock form than other platforms. this is an issue that should have been taken into consideration before marketing this product for use in a 2nd get TSX.
btw, i'm not saying the pulley is the problem here, i'm just bringing into question how vendors are claiming support for platforms that haven't been tested.
Where is anyone saying it wasn't tested? To the contrary I posted I did test fit it personally. The OEM 2g crank pulley is the exact same diameter as the 1g one. The alternator is the same as well. Swapping in the pulleys from a 1g TSX was a no-brainer. People with 1gs have been running them since 2004. There is no reason for anyone involved to suspect there was a problem. Indeed many people are NOT having problems. Man, I can't remember the name of the tester I used. I would love to call them and see how things are going...
07-28-2011, 04:29 PM
#69
I just re-read what i posted and i think i was really mad at my girfriend yesterday when i typed that, lol
thanks for the love prof. this is why i like acurazine, awesome community
07-28-2011, 05:48 PM
#70
Where is anyone saying it wasn't tested? To the contrary I posted I did test fit it personally. The OEM 2g crank pulley is the exact same diameter as the 1g one. The alternator is the same as well. Swapping in the pulleys from a 1g TSX was a no-brainer. People with 1gs have been running them since 2004. There is no reason for anyone involved to suspect there was a problem. Indeed many people are NOT having problems. Man, I can't remember the name of the tester I used. I would love to call them and see how things are going...
again, i'm not saying for sure that the pully is the problem, but you cannot certify that it isn't a possibility. if you can, show everyone the data.
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4dr4bangrAccord (08-05-2011)
07-28-2011, 06:57 PM
#73
if i was a mod i would ban everybody who disagreed with me and id change peoples sigs to say cocksucker if i didnt like em :thief:
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07-28-2011, 11:41 PM
#76
A quote from drive accord dot net. New thread just posted.
Let that be a testament to just how shitty the stock batterys/alternators are on the tsx/accords. Don't blame the pulleys when people who are running stock accords are having similar issues.
My wife loves her 2009 Accord V8 Coupe except for one thing. She has found that sitting in the car with key in Accessory position (II) and listening to the radio caused the battery to drain in about half an hour. We thought it was a flaw and after AAA charged it we took it to the dealer. They checked it out, gave the battery a full charge, and said they found nothing wrong.
It happened again a couple of months later. This time they replaced the battery as a courtesy, but said that it was a characteristic of this car that the battery runs down when you use accessories.
Now, year later it has happened again. This time she did not have the radio on, but turned the key on to open the windows while she waited for her passenger who was in the store. By the time he got back, again about half an hour, the battery was dead even though she was not running any accessories. But she had left the key on in the Accessory position after dropping the windows. (Had to turn the key on because the passenger opening the door did not allow windows to work without the key).
Again, the dealer said it was just the way the Accord is--modern car with lots of computers blah, blah, blah. Charged the battery fully overnight. Still, it just doesn't seem right that that leaving the key on with nothing turned on for half an hour with a healthy year-old battery should cause it to drain. Any others have this problem? Is it a lemon or a characteristic?
It happened again a couple of months later. This time they replaced the battery as a courtesy, but said that it was a characteristic of this car that the battery runs down when you use accessories.
Now, year later it has happened again. This time she did not have the radio on, but turned the key on to open the windows while she waited for her passenger who was in the store. By the time he got back, again about half an hour, the battery was dead even though she was not running any accessories. But she had left the key on in the Accessory position after dropping the windows. (Had to turn the key on because the passenger opening the door did not allow windows to work without the key).
Again, the dealer said it was just the way the Accord is--modern car with lots of computers blah, blah, blah. Charged the battery fully overnight. Still, it just doesn't seem right that that leaving the key on with nothing turned on for half an hour with a healthy year-old battery should cause it to drain. Any others have this problem? Is it a lemon or a characteristic?
Let that be a testament to just how shitty the stock batterys/alternators are on the tsx/accords. Don't blame the pulleys when people who are running stock accords are having similar issues.
07-29-2011, 01:49 AM
#77
We are not the only ones. Thanks Keak!
07-29-2011, 12:50 PM
#78
test fit is one thing... making sure it doesn't introduce reliability issues is another. no one here, not UR, throwdown, nor yourself has made the claim that enough effort was put into that. even throwdown has admitted that the 2nd gen draws more load than other platforms.
again, i'm not saying for sure that the pully is the problem, but you cannot certify that it isn't a possibility. if you can, show everyone the data.
again, i'm not saying for sure that the pully is the problem, but you cannot certify that it isn't a possibility. if you can, show everyone the data.
As Heeltoe mentioned, this is the first experience of this issue after dozens and dozens of customers. In fact, these two really are isolated in my opinion for various reasons until we are able to determine otherwise because it can't be identified on the pulleys. Infact we have several customers who have had these pulleys for years now without any issues. I hate to have this thread get into a war and would much rather the community was working towards vs just the assumption "pulleys are killing my car". There's lot of other points that really have been all over the place, for example I had a conversation with ecko yesterday trying to HELP resolve the situation and there were some oddities that may not have anything to do with the pulleys. For example, he originally had a system in the car, car worked fine for months, then he removed the system and started to have issues (which is backwards from what you would expect).
Last edited by Throwdown; 07-29-2011 at 12:56 PM.
07-29-2011, 01:15 PM
#79
That's another interesting thread Keak. I just looked over there (we are a sponsor on that forum as well). That was a typo on the V8 
but is a V6 model... which raises the same question, is it just Honda going real spotty on their battery/alternator components? And we are seeing the issue without even pulleys... which would be a real shame for Honda/Acura. We have been heavily involved in the TSX/Accord platform since the 8th gen Accord launched (I actually drive one) and this is the first we are starting to hear about this. Hopefully this doesn't turn into an issue like Honda with their rear brakes.
but is a V6 model... which raises the same question, is it just Honda going real spotty on their battery/alternator components? And we are seeing the issue without even pulleys... which would be a real shame for Honda/Acura. We have been heavily involved in the TSX/Accord platform since the 8th gen Accord launched (I actually drive one) and this is the first we are starting to hear about this. Hopefully this doesn't turn into an issue like Honda with their rear brakes.
07-29-2011, 02:30 PM
#80
WTH happened to my garage
Does the Accord (V6 even) come with that puny 51R battery, too?
Another example of our tax dollars at work (CAFE standards) gotta save every ounce of weight you can, *everywhere you can*.
Anyone can see the battery tray will fit damn near any battery out there. Hell, even a Civic, Accord, etc. in the 90'S & 2000'S use to have larger batteries than these (Group 24,34,35,78, etc.) didn't they?
To add insult to injury, our 51R's are made by Panasonic.
Another example of our tax dollars at work (CAFE standards) gotta save every ounce of weight you can, *everywhere you can*.
Anyone can see the battery tray will fit damn near any battery out there. Hell, even a Civic, Accord, etc. in the 90'S & 2000'S use to have larger batteries than these (Group 24,34,35,78, etc.) didn't they?
To add insult to injury, our 51R's are made by Panasonic.
Last edited by HeavyDuty; 07-29-2011 at 02:38 PM.