UR Pulleys on 2011 TSX killing the car
07-26-2011, 09:35 PM
#1
Developer & Car Fan
Thread Starter
UR Pulleys on 2011 TSX killing the car
Hey guys,
Its been a while since I posted but I have some pretty serious news. First lets start with a little backstory.
Earlier this year I did a number of things to my car, lights, rims, intake. Lastly I decided to shave a few more lbs and add a few ponies (horsepower) to the car so I purchased a UR underdrive pulley kit. After having it installed I quickly noticed the car "pulled harder" and it was awesome.
Fast forward a few months and one day my car won't start, though it did the prior night and nothing was left on or plugged in that shouldn't be. I called AcuraCare and had the car towed to Prime Acura (where I bought it). They tested the battery and everything checked out so they said it was a negative draw and possibly the computer. They reset everything and gave the car back to me. About a week later the battery dies again and I have to tow it back to Prime. This time they replace the battery and all looks good. A few days ago I noticed the lighting was dimming and then the car threw a "Charging System" error and illuminated the battery indicator. I let the car run and it turned off but at this time I knew something major was wrong. After alternating lights, stereo and dome lights I could effectively drain the battery in a matter of minutes. Clearly something needed to be done.
The next morning I took it over to Herb Connolly* since I had to make a meeting and talked to the tech. They looked over my car, noticed the UR pulleys and tested the alternator. It was reading at 11.5 (standard for the TSX is 14) and he noted the belt routing AND pulley size was causing the alternator to run slower and struggle to charge the battery.
After hearing that I immediately had them install the OEM pulley setup and the charging indicator ceased to appear, the alternator tests at 14.0 and the battery now properly gets a charge. As you can tell the only thing I had removed was the UR Pulleys.
Of course after these findings I contacted Unorthodox Racing (UR) and got a blanket "its not us" response. Needless to say I am pissed and very surprised a niche company would outright deny something without some facts or information from me. Needless to say I am out hundreds of dollars, lost clients (due to dead car) and many hours wasted, all for a few minor gains.
In closing, I just wanted to add this experience in hopes of saving someone time and frustration. If your charging indicator is coming on, battery dying and you recently installed pulleys thats a good place to start looking.
Update: I will be posting the pulleys either on Ebay or directly on AZ in a couple of days if someone wants to get a deal of their lifetime (I simply want the last service cost reimbursed).
* Oh and my latest experience with Herb Connolly of Framingham MA was so much better than my first
Its been a while since I posted but I have some pretty serious news. First lets start with a little backstory.
Earlier this year I did a number of things to my car, lights, rims, intake. Lastly I decided to shave a few more lbs and add a few ponies (horsepower) to the car so I purchased a UR underdrive pulley kit. After having it installed I quickly noticed the car "pulled harder" and it was awesome.
Fast forward a few months and one day my car won't start, though it did the prior night and nothing was left on or plugged in that shouldn't be. I called AcuraCare and had the car towed to Prime Acura (where I bought it). They tested the battery and everything checked out so they said it was a negative draw and possibly the computer. They reset everything and gave the car back to me. About a week later the battery dies again and I have to tow it back to Prime. This time they replace the battery and all looks good. A few days ago I noticed the lighting was dimming and then the car threw a "Charging System" error and illuminated the battery indicator. I let the car run and it turned off but at this time I knew something major was wrong. After alternating lights, stereo and dome lights I could effectively drain the battery in a matter of minutes. Clearly something needed to be done.
The next morning I took it over to Herb Connolly* since I had to make a meeting and talked to the tech. They looked over my car, noticed the UR pulleys and tested the alternator. It was reading at 11.5 (standard for the TSX is 14) and he noted the belt routing AND pulley size was causing the alternator to run slower and struggle to charge the battery.
After hearing that I immediately had them install the OEM pulley setup and the charging indicator ceased to appear, the alternator tests at 14.0 and the battery now properly gets a charge. As you can tell the only thing I had removed was the UR Pulleys.
Of course after these findings I contacted Unorthodox Racing (UR) and got a blanket "its not us" response. Needless to say I am pissed and very surprised a niche company would outright deny something without some facts or information from me. Needless to say I am out hundreds of dollars, lost clients (due to dead car) and many hours wasted, all for a few minor gains.
In closing, I just wanted to add this experience in hopes of saving someone time and frustration. If your charging indicator is coming on, battery dying and you recently installed pulleys thats a good place to start looking.
Update: I will be posting the pulleys either on Ebay or directly on AZ in a couple of days if someone wants to get a deal of their lifetime (I simply want the last service cost reimbursed).
* Oh and my latest experience with Herb Connolly of Framingham MA was so much better than my first
Last edited by mkeefe; 07-26-2011 at 09:39 PM.
07-27-2011, 01:26 AM
#4
I dont know much about cars, but ive read various stories just like this one when i was googling underdrive pulleys and it spooked me
Even if it doesnt cause any immediate problems, it just doesnt seem like a good idea to put unneeded stress on the cars electrical components, id be scared its hurting the long term life of the car
just my three cents
Even if it doesnt cause any immediate problems, it just doesnt seem like a good idea to put unneeded stress on the cars electrical components, id be scared its hurting the long term life of the car
just my three cents
07-27-2011, 09:55 AM
#6
WTH happened to my garage
I've used UR on a bunch of different applications and had good results, but there's a very fine line between freeing up power and a drain at idle.
Did you do the Street (one pulley, crank only) or the Street Set (in this case, 2 pulleys, crank & alternator?)
In the past, different apps could take a set & be ok with a 15% underdrive ratio, and others would only be OK with a 10% or 12% underdrive ratio by using the crank pulley *only*.
Our batteries suck, mine was replaced at 1 yr already. They are tiny for this car. Then add in all the heavy duty electronics & it's no wonder.
Other apps (with a power steering pump, external crank driven water pump) can have 4 in a set (Crank, WP, Alt, P/S pump)
Point of all this rambling was...is your set a 2 pulley set? If so, just lose the alternator UR pulley and keep the crank pulley for a little benefit, if you want.
If you only have the crank pulley kit, then, yeah, you're hosed.
Did you do the Street (one pulley, crank only) or the Street Set (in this case, 2 pulleys, crank & alternator?)
In the past, different apps could take a set & be ok with a 15% underdrive ratio, and others would only be OK with a 10% or 12% underdrive ratio by using the crank pulley *only*.
Our batteries suck, mine was replaced at 1 yr already. They are tiny for this car. Then add in all the heavy duty electronics & it's no wonder.
Other apps (with a power steering pump, external crank driven water pump) can have 4 in a set (Crank, WP, Alt, P/S pump)
Point of all this rambling was...is your set a 2 pulley set? If so, just lose the alternator UR pulley and keep the crank pulley for a little benefit, if you want.
If you only have the crank pulley kit, then, yeah, you're hosed.
07-27-2011, 09:57 AM
#7
Intermediate
LONG:
* This response is important to make it clear that proper protocol was not followed in the timelyness of initial contact nor with diagnosis leaving us no room to help rectify his situation. Our subsequent request to have the diagnosis steps followed were ignored.
Mr. Keefe's first e-mail to UR:
Hello, After purchasing a set of UR pulleys for my 2011 TSX back in April I have been experiencing dead batteries and warnings about "Charging System Error" from the onboard computer. After having the battery tested, replaced and alternator checked we (Acura and myself) came to the conclusion that the routing of the belt/lightweight pulleys was causing the alternator to be under-powered. Yesterday (July 26th) I had the Acura dealership remove the aftermarket pulleys and install the oem parts. Soon after my alternator tested properly, the car wouldn't hesitate to start and the car was not under-powered. Based on this series of events I am out about $700 in money from purchase, install, gas for loaner cars and the final switchover to the OEM parts. While I am certain I can't recoop all of that money at this point i'd like Unorthodox Racing to make good on the situation. I am not sure if I got a bad pulley or it wasn't tested on a 2011 but I have a work order and 2 mechanics, plus Acura tech team saying the issue was the Unorthodox Racing underdrive pulleys that I purchased from Throwdown Performance. Please let me know how we can proceed.
Thanks for your time.
Matthew Keefe
UR's first response to Mr. Keefe:
Are you completely stock electrically? What other mods have been done? Are you running the right belt? Was the alternator bench tested by the dealer? Testing for voltage doesn’t determine anything other than output is down. So if the alternator happens to be weak since the stock crank pulley over spin the accessories it would mask a weak alternator.
Since we test each kit for output during development, we know that output was maintained. Hundreds of other owners, from Accords to Civic Si’s, Civic Type R’s, RSX’s and other TSX’x have not had any issues so your alternator is the place to look. Rather than the dealer straight out blaming the pulleys, since they are completely inept, the first step of the diagnosis should have been a proper bench test. We would suggest that a thorough diagnosis be done since the both of you are the only owners to exhibit this problem.
We are always willing to acknowledge that our product could be the problem but due to the info provided above and with the design of the product unchanged, output from our original baselines would be no different today on a brand new vehicle. The fact is that after 5+ years of selling these kits the pulleys are not the issue.
Respectfully,
Unorthodox Racing Inc.
Mr. Keefe's second response:
I appreciate the response. The only modifications to the car are not able to cause this issue (LED interior and DRLs) and since the only change has been the removal of the aftermarket pulleys and the car stopped throwing errors its pretty evident that something was wrong with your product. I don't doubt your product is tested and works and all that but was it explicitly tested on a 2011 TSX thats a daily drive, not just a "fun time" car?
This is not an isolated incident, my buddy that has a 2010 TSX is experiencing the exact same problem. We purchased them on the same day and had them installed around the same time, "coincidentally" they started causing issues at the same time. After doing some online research others have had this problem in the past so I am not sure why your team would call this an "isolated incident".
So as I see it you guys are not willing to help a customer out in this case as I am NOT going to run tests/burn money to come to the conclusion myself and Acura techs have reached. I'll be sure to post my experience as I am officially not a happy customer and saddened at the "its not us" cavalier response.
Sincerely,
Matthew
UR's final response:
As was stated in our original response ”was the alternator bench tested?”
It seems that because you spent a few minutes with some dealer techs and more likely just a service writer (glorified salesperson) that you and they are now the expert on pulleys. In addition because your comment about how the modifications, regardless of how minor you think they are, could not possibly have caused a problem. They could not possibly have been installed improperly nor could be in appropriate for your vehicle. Electrical mods on later model vehicles can be very problematic as they have more sensitive electrical system, they can sense inappropriate draw and shut certain functions to protect certain systems if it considers something to be not right.
With regards to your comment about dealer techs being all seeing we have to say most dealer techs are so far from diagnosers they are an embarrassment to the trades great history. They are part changers and have been for many many years now. Problems like these require old school skills, like a bench test, which I’d actually be surprised if they could even do because they would rather sell you another part and bill you the labor than solve the actual problem. The dealer should be willing to put its money where its mouth is with a bench test. But beyond the bench test harness draw test also needs to be done as a next phase if the bench test is inconclusive.
We also need to clarify about your statement that “we are unwilling” when the reality is quite the opposite. If you could meet even the most basic threshold of facts contrary to our 17 years of real world experience, we would have something we could talk about. Since the dealer has failed the most basic functions of diagnosis we can’t even confirm if the alternator is weak or not or if there is an inappropriate draw somewhere in the system.
Beyond these points we also made it clear these kits have been on hundreds (500+) of other K-Series cars with no issues whatsoever. You say others have had problems and that we just call this an “isolated incident” for no reason. We have yet to hear of any other problems beyond you and your friend directly or indirectly. Don’t’ talk about facts without providing proof of those facts in the form or correspondence (e-mail or web-boards). Another fact is that as these K-Series engines age, many are now almost 10 years old, their accessories will wear out especially the alternator which can lose almost 25-30% of its output at idle once it reaches operating temp even within the first year.
Then you try to muddy up the water even further with the mention of your friends problem which is even more problematic as his car is actually a 2009 based on his e-mail to us. We would assumed since he’s your friend you would know the actual model year of his car too. So what was your point in bringing him up? His car is even older and we also have no idea what mods have been done to his car either.
It seems to us that you and your friend may have done the same things which is most likely the cause of these issues.
We also take issue with the fact that you’ve had these parts installed since April but yet you’ve waited almost 4 months to tell us you are having a problem. It’s quite possible had you contacted us right away we could have solved this quickly and without all the unnecessary expense.
Not to say that this shows a problem pattern with your claims but usually when someone hides a problem it’s because they know they’ve done something wrong and since they were not able to rectify it themselves they now lash out at the dealer or vendor. I bet you Throwdown Performance never even heard anything from you either as Mark is always on the ball and would have let us know the minute you called him with a problem.
Unless the proper steps are taken to diagnose the possible causes there is nothing more we can do for you. Our reputation is flawless and speaks for itself. Whenever we have ever had a problem, can’t even count them on one hand, we have made good on rectifying the issue. Any attempt by you to sully this fact with your lack of facts will be vigorously defended against.
Respectfully,
Unorthodox Racing Inc.
Mr Keefe's final response:
Well I didn't know about the steps required to prove the issue. I'm just curious how im having alternator issues and removing the pulleys stops the issue. It's hard to argue with that.
In regards to my friends car it is an 09, I forgot he bought it used in 2010.
I'm not saying the other lite mods I've had done aren't a possible thing to look at but the only removal has been the pulleys, as I stated before.
The part was installed a few months back but only recently started exhibiting issues, partially to not using my car as often while away and other factors. However once I noticed the issue I took action. I did not contact Throwndown since in my experience you contact the source directly, as most times you get pushed that way in the end.
I'm not trying to "destroy" your brand or anything of the sort, i'm simply trying to get this handled and as a small business owner myself I thought itd be beneficial to contact you guys.
Like I said before. I can't waste anymore time/money on this problem,I guess its lesson learned.
Sincerely,
----
Matthew Keefe
* This response is important to make it clear that proper protocol was not followed in the timelyness of initial contact nor with diagnosis leaving us no room to help rectify his situation. Our subsequent request to have the diagnosis steps followed were ignored.
Mr. Keefe's first e-mail to UR:
Hello, After purchasing a set of UR pulleys for my 2011 TSX back in April I have been experiencing dead batteries and warnings about "Charging System Error" from the onboard computer. After having the battery tested, replaced and alternator checked we (Acura and myself) came to the conclusion that the routing of the belt/lightweight pulleys was causing the alternator to be under-powered. Yesterday (July 26th) I had the Acura dealership remove the aftermarket pulleys and install the oem parts. Soon after my alternator tested properly, the car wouldn't hesitate to start and the car was not under-powered. Based on this series of events I am out about $700 in money from purchase, install, gas for loaner cars and the final switchover to the OEM parts. While I am certain I can't recoop all of that money at this point i'd like Unorthodox Racing to make good on the situation. I am not sure if I got a bad pulley or it wasn't tested on a 2011 but I have a work order and 2 mechanics, plus Acura tech team saying the issue was the Unorthodox Racing underdrive pulleys that I purchased from Throwdown Performance. Please let me know how we can proceed.
Thanks for your time.
Matthew Keefe
UR's first response to Mr. Keefe:
Are you completely stock electrically? What other mods have been done? Are you running the right belt? Was the alternator bench tested by the dealer? Testing for voltage doesn’t determine anything other than output is down. So if the alternator happens to be weak since the stock crank pulley over spin the accessories it would mask a weak alternator.
Since we test each kit for output during development, we know that output was maintained. Hundreds of other owners, from Accords to Civic Si’s, Civic Type R’s, RSX’s and other TSX’x have not had any issues so your alternator is the place to look. Rather than the dealer straight out blaming the pulleys, since they are completely inept, the first step of the diagnosis should have been a proper bench test. We would suggest that a thorough diagnosis be done since the both of you are the only owners to exhibit this problem.
We are always willing to acknowledge that our product could be the problem but due to the info provided above and with the design of the product unchanged, output from our original baselines would be no different today on a brand new vehicle. The fact is that after 5+ years of selling these kits the pulleys are not the issue.
Respectfully,
Unorthodox Racing Inc.
Mr. Keefe's second response:
I appreciate the response. The only modifications to the car are not able to cause this issue (LED interior and DRLs) and since the only change has been the removal of the aftermarket pulleys and the car stopped throwing errors its pretty evident that something was wrong with your product. I don't doubt your product is tested and works and all that but was it explicitly tested on a 2011 TSX thats a daily drive, not just a "fun time" car?
This is not an isolated incident, my buddy that has a 2010 TSX is experiencing the exact same problem. We purchased them on the same day and had them installed around the same time, "coincidentally" they started causing issues at the same time. After doing some online research others have had this problem in the past so I am not sure why your team would call this an "isolated incident".
So as I see it you guys are not willing to help a customer out in this case as I am NOT going to run tests/burn money to come to the conclusion myself and Acura techs have reached. I'll be sure to post my experience as I am officially not a happy customer and saddened at the "its not us" cavalier response.
Sincerely,
Matthew
UR's final response:
As was stated in our original response ”was the alternator bench tested?”
It seems that because you spent a few minutes with some dealer techs and more likely just a service writer (glorified salesperson) that you and they are now the expert on pulleys. In addition because your comment about how the modifications, regardless of how minor you think they are, could not possibly have caused a problem. They could not possibly have been installed improperly nor could be in appropriate for your vehicle. Electrical mods on later model vehicles can be very problematic as they have more sensitive electrical system, they can sense inappropriate draw and shut certain functions to protect certain systems if it considers something to be not right.
With regards to your comment about dealer techs being all seeing we have to say most dealer techs are so far from diagnosers they are an embarrassment to the trades great history. They are part changers and have been for many many years now. Problems like these require old school skills, like a bench test, which I’d actually be surprised if they could even do because they would rather sell you another part and bill you the labor than solve the actual problem. The dealer should be willing to put its money where its mouth is with a bench test. But beyond the bench test harness draw test also needs to be done as a next phase if the bench test is inconclusive.
We also need to clarify about your statement that “we are unwilling” when the reality is quite the opposite. If you could meet even the most basic threshold of facts contrary to our 17 years of real world experience, we would have something we could talk about. Since the dealer has failed the most basic functions of diagnosis we can’t even confirm if the alternator is weak or not or if there is an inappropriate draw somewhere in the system.
Beyond these points we also made it clear these kits have been on hundreds (500+) of other K-Series cars with no issues whatsoever. You say others have had problems and that we just call this an “isolated incident” for no reason. We have yet to hear of any other problems beyond you and your friend directly or indirectly. Don’t’ talk about facts without providing proof of those facts in the form or correspondence (e-mail or web-boards). Another fact is that as these K-Series engines age, many are now almost 10 years old, their accessories will wear out especially the alternator which can lose almost 25-30% of its output at idle once it reaches operating temp even within the first year.
Then you try to muddy up the water even further with the mention of your friends problem which is even more problematic as his car is actually a 2009 based on his e-mail to us. We would assumed since he’s your friend you would know the actual model year of his car too. So what was your point in bringing him up? His car is even older and we also have no idea what mods have been done to his car either.
It seems to us that you and your friend may have done the same things which is most likely the cause of these issues.
We also take issue with the fact that you’ve had these parts installed since April but yet you’ve waited almost 4 months to tell us you are having a problem. It’s quite possible had you contacted us right away we could have solved this quickly and without all the unnecessary expense.
Not to say that this shows a problem pattern with your claims but usually when someone hides a problem it’s because they know they’ve done something wrong and since they were not able to rectify it themselves they now lash out at the dealer or vendor. I bet you Throwdown Performance never even heard anything from you either as Mark is always on the ball and would have let us know the minute you called him with a problem.
Unless the proper steps are taken to diagnose the possible causes there is nothing more we can do for you. Our reputation is flawless and speaks for itself. Whenever we have ever had a problem, can’t even count them on one hand, we have made good on rectifying the issue. Any attempt by you to sully this fact with your lack of facts will be vigorously defended against.
Respectfully,
Unorthodox Racing Inc.
Mr Keefe's final response:
Well I didn't know about the steps required to prove the issue. I'm just curious how im having alternator issues and removing the pulleys stops the issue. It's hard to argue with that.
In regards to my friends car it is an 09, I forgot he bought it used in 2010.
I'm not saying the other lite mods I've had done aren't a possible thing to look at but the only removal has been the pulleys, as I stated before.
The part was installed a few months back but only recently started exhibiting issues, partially to not using my car as often while away and other factors. However once I noticed the issue I took action. I did not contact Throwndown since in my experience you contact the source directly, as most times you get pushed that way in the end.
I'm not trying to "destroy" your brand or anything of the sort, i'm simply trying to get this handled and as a small business owner myself I thought itd be beneficial to contact you guys.
Like I said before. I can't waste anymore time/money on this problem,I guess its lesson learned.
Sincerely,
----
Matthew Keefe
Trending Topics
07-27-2011, 10:56 AM
#9
Intermediate
Now that's a quality reply! Admins?
Oh by the way I assume you did your homework when you bought the pulleys too?
From the UR FAQ section:
Our underdrive pulleys are designed to allow for the addition of aftermarket stereo systems up to approximately 600 watts RMS. If the stereo system in question is above that wattage amount then the owner can purchase our stock diameter crank pulley will maintain the voltage output just like the stock crank pulley.
Capacitors are a smart addition to any audio system as they store the power the amplifiers need for peak draw. Our stock diameter series used with capacitors allow the vehicle owner to achieve the cleanest and most powerful sound with no loss in voltage output. Another good option would be to install a second battery or batteries just for the stereo.
Shawn
Oh by the way I assume you did your homework when you bought the pulleys too?
From the UR FAQ section:
Our underdrive pulleys are designed to allow for the addition of aftermarket stereo systems up to approximately 600 watts RMS. If the stereo system in question is above that wattage amount then the owner can purchase our stock diameter crank pulley will maintain the voltage output just like the stock crank pulley.
Capacitors are a smart addition to any audio system as they store the power the amplifiers need for peak draw. Our stock diameter series used with capacitors allow the vehicle owner to achieve the cleanest and most powerful sound with no loss in voltage output. Another good option would be to install a second battery or batteries just for the stereo.
Shawn
07-27-2011, 11:14 AM
#10
For a reputable company. Your customer service and help with issues regarding your products is horrible! You should be ashamed of your attitude in response to your customers issues completely unacceptable.
07-27-2011, 11:17 AM
#11
Intermediate
Typical response of a customer that failed to properly choose a product and now is bitter because we will not rectify his overtly obvious mistake.
Take responsibility for your actions!
Take responsibility for your actions!
07-27-2011, 11:22 AM
#12
SincE you are so smug, what do overt mistake did I make? Contact you people with my issue? I chose a product designed for my car. How did I not properly Chose the correct product?
07-27-2011, 11:28 AM
#13
Developer & Car Fan
Thread Starter
I purchased a product that was designed (according to you) for my car. Then when I mentioned its having issues you attempt to blame every possible addition to my car when i've checked with numerous people about this and all said "pulleys can cause this issue".
The fact that you openly published this communication (notice I DID NOT) simply proves you are unwilling to help a customer and rather bitch to "clear your name". Thats your prerogative and I won't say anything about that. However the part was defective, my car works now and I have no choice but to warn others.
Finally, the comment about ignoring your requests I did quite the opposite by stating I couldn't spend more time and do your companies R&D. Maybe the pulleys don't work on the CU2 version of the TSX and maybe that should be noted.
Thanks,
Matt
The fact that you openly published this communication (notice I DID NOT) simply proves you are unwilling to help a customer and rather bitch to "clear your name". Thats your prerogative and I won't say anything about that. However the part was defective, my car works now and I have no choice but to warn others.
Finally, the comment about ignoring your requests I did quite the opposite by stating I couldn't spend more time and do your companies R&D. Maybe the pulleys don't work on the CU2 version of the TSX and maybe that should be noted.
Thanks,
Matt
07-27-2011, 11:29 AM
#14
Intermediate
Read post #9.
You've got 2000W of amp and regardless of caps you are way over the 600 watts of additional draw we recommend for underdrive. That's without your high watt bulbs being factored in.
This is the last response as we should not have to re-explain ourselves when we respond in plain english.
You've got 2000W of amp and regardless of caps you are way over the 600 watts of additional draw we recommend for underdrive. That's without your high watt bulbs being factored in.
This is the last response as we should not have to re-explain ourselves when we respond in plain english.
07-27-2011, 11:31 AM
#15
Developer & Car Fan
Thread Starter
From the UR FAQ section:
Our underdrive pulleys are designed to allow for the addition of aftermarket stereo systems up to approximately 600 watts RMS. If the stereo system in question is above that wattage amount then the owner can purchase our stock diameter crank pulley will maintain the voltage output just like the stock crank pulley.
...
Our underdrive pulleys are designed to allow for the addition of aftermarket stereo systems up to approximately 600 watts RMS. If the stereo system in question is above that wattage amount then the owner can purchase our stock diameter crank pulley will maintain the voltage output just like the stock crank pulley.
...
No stereo mods were done/added to my '11 TSX.
At this point I feel like i'm trying to justify your product not working. However I simply hope it helps future potential customers, I only post whats true and in-full for others to make informed decisions.
Matt
07-27-2011, 11:33 AM
#16
Developer & Car Fan
Thread Starter
Read post #9.
You've got 2000W of amp and regardless of caps you are way over the 600 watts of additional draw we recommend for underdrive. That's without your high watt bulbs being factored in.
This is the last response as we should not have to re-explain ourselves when we respond in plain english.
You've got 2000W of amp and regardless of caps you are way over the 600 watts of additional draw we recommend for underdrive. That's without your high watt bulbs being factored in.
This is the last response as we should not have to re-explain ourselves when we respond in plain english.
As you can see from a simple "Google Search" others have issues and report the Alternator produces less output. Hard to deny that.
Matt
07-27-2011, 11:35 AM
#17
Hey sweetheart. My stereo is no longer in my car and hasn't been for a month now. High wattage bulbs? Last time I checked led bulbs used less power. You might be the dumbest customer service rep I've ever dealt with and would love to speak to someone who has a brain at this company
07-27-2011, 11:37 AM
#18
Intermediate
Putting the stock pulleys back on that overspin the alternator will only mask an alternator problem period.
If the part is defective prove it! You posted and we replied with the facts so everyone could clearly see what we requested and what you refused to do. As was stated previously had you contacted us early enough the dealer could have tested and proven our points. So its not us, you have chosen this direction which ended badly for you.
This will be our last post to you also as this has been beaten to death needlessly. You failed to contact us properly, you made poor decisions based unfortunately on what you thought was good info. Game over.
If the part is defective prove it! You posted and we replied with the facts so everyone could clearly see what we requested and what you refused to do. As was stated previously had you contacted us early enough the dealer could have tested and proven our points. So its not us, you have chosen this direction which ended badly for you.
This will be our last post to you also as this has been beaten to death needlessly. You failed to contact us properly, you made poor decisions based unfortunately on what you thought was good info. Game over.
07-27-2011, 11:44 AM
#19
I would be more than happy to bring my car with the pulleys on for you to test at your expense. Other than that you can only take our word for it. When other people have the same problems please email me with an apology. Otherwise I will seek other ways to get my money back. You can use your imagination on that one
07-27-2011, 11:45 AM
#20
Developer & Car Fan
Thread Starter
As was stated previously had you contacted us early enough the dealer could have tested and proven our points. So its not us, you have chosen this direction which ended badly for you.
Game Over? Hardly, at this point i'll make it my goal to tell "the world" just what kind of company you guys truly are. Point. Set. Match.
Matt
07-27-2011, 11:47 AM
#22
Developer & Car Fan
Thread Starter
07-27-2011, 11:49 AM
#23
im here for the internet drama
i know you two are BFFs, did you get the pulleys installed at the same shop by any chance?
i know you two are BFFs, did you get the pulleys installed at the same shop by any chance?
07-27-2011, 11:52 AM
#24
Developer & Car Fan
Thread Starter
The only "commonality" here is the product and version of the engine since the 09 and 11 share the same engine, as you all know.
Personally I think it wasn't tested on a CU2 or wasn't long-term tested. I mean it worked fine "at first" but over time it was casing issues. To the point where my car was useless to the family.. and a burden to Acura service teams as well.
Thanks,
Matt
Last edited by mkeefe; 07-27-2011 at 11:56 AM. Reason: More info.
07-27-2011, 11:54 AM
#25
Developer & Car Fan
Thread Starter
07-27-2011, 12:39 PM
#27
My battery dies fast if I don't have the car on. It started to happen after the shop installed the pullie set.
07-27-2011, 12:44 PM
#28
I have the same exact issue. But I am more than certain it is mostly due to the weak ass battery's our cars have as I've heard of people with no pullies complaining and replacing them.
07-27-2011, 12:46 PM
#29
07-27-2011, 12:55 PM
#30
registered pw
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: south central pa
Age: 49
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If the problem went away after returning to oem, that would tell me whatever you removed would have been the culprit.
I have only worked on cars for 20 years, but, when you replace a part with aftermarket and it gives you problems and then you go back to your original setup and then all is normal and nothing else was modified, i would assume it was that new part.
His e-mails all seemed very professional and non threatening.
I have only worked on cars for 20 years, but, when you replace a part with aftermarket and it gives you problems and then you go back to your original setup and then all is normal and nothing else was modified, i would assume it was that new part.
His e-mails all seemed very professional and non threatening.
07-27-2011, 12:57 PM
#31
Developer & Car Fan
Thread Starter
Seeing as others are having battery issues it just adds to the "pulleys are causing problems" of which I originally was posting about.
I will no longer bitch with their staff though, I don't like Internet drama but merely helping out fellow car enthusiasts, such as my AZ brothers.
Matt
07-27-2011, 01:07 PM
#32
registered pw
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: south central pa
Age: 49
Posts: 38,821
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If you are unhappy at this point, sell your pulley as someone else will buy it and cut your losses and speak with your wallet.
If someone asks you if they recommend the product then i'd share your experience.
Did you add the 6k and drl after you installed the pulleys?
As most know, sometimes the tolerances of some parts leave very little room to add stress/strain. The oem alternator/pulley may have been engineered to withstand charging only the oem stuff in your car. Even adding 10 more watts of anything may have pushed past the tipping point and charging may have been affected.
If all systems were in the off position, they really shouldn't have any strain on the alternator and without a doubt would say it's the pulley.
These electrical system are a real PITA as each year passes.
If someone asks you if they recommend the product then i'd share your experience.
Did you add the 6k and drl after you installed the pulleys?
As most know, sometimes the tolerances of some parts leave very little room to add stress/strain. The oem alternator/pulley may have been engineered to withstand charging only the oem stuff in your car. Even adding 10 more watts of anything may have pushed past the tipping point and charging may have been affected.
If all systems were in the off position, they really shouldn't have any strain on the alternator and without a doubt would say it's the pulley.
These electrical system are a real PITA as each year passes.
Last edited by dallison; 07-27-2011 at 01:12 PM.
07-27-2011, 01:15 PM
#34
you guys should bring this up on Eigthaccord.net, they have the same engine and have alot more pulley users than we do, maybe you could make a thread and some more people might be able to help out with some relevant information
07-27-2011, 01:43 PM
#36
Killer you just butchered two different forum names. There is drive accord dot net and my8thgen.com lol
I do have battery problems. But they are so minimal that I can deal with them since I love the added power. So I have no mounting complaints against UR
I do have battery problems. But they are so minimal that I can deal with them since I love the added power. So I have no mounting complaints against UR
07-27-2011, 02:43 PM
#38
WTH happened to my garage
In UR's defense, LONG, sorry, but think about it.
I've met Shawn Baumgardner at SEMA (2000? geezus I'm old...can't remember if there's a "t" in his last name or a "d", so if i'm wrong, please excuse me.) They make a very good product, and they've been put in a position of having to defend their product against claims like this as well as harmonic/dampening issues claimed by others attributing engine failure to their crank pulleys, which they've disproven.
Part of the benefit is the ratio change, the other part is reduction in weight from a stock steel pulley to a lightweight billet aluminum one.
Anyway, as I mentioned above, our batteries are basura even when new with no mods & Honda isn't big on overpowering systems, like brakes, or alternators. I had to replace my battery at only a year old. Add in navigation & a USB iPod interface, HID headlamps, blah blah blah, it's evidently not sufficient when new.
So...if you reduce the rate at which the alternator is turned, (smaller crank pulley) it's no longer at "full charge" at idle which is where the manufacturer designed it. Then to reduce it's charging ability further, you make the alternator pulley larger, slowing it down even more. Then, as you mentioned, you haven't driven the car everyday like you used to *and* there's an aftermarket stereo. Has no one experienced a dead battery at the airport parking garage after just a week long trip?
I've run UR pulleys on more apps than I can remember, seriously. I've had more cars than I am years old, I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, nor point a finger at either side...
BUT I don't remember ever using the alternator pulley in a pulley set. I'll take a few horse hit to have bright headlights in the dark, at idle, in the rain, with my wipers and a/c on and the stereo at level 25 with the navigation system doing whatever it does, and a hooker in the passenger seat using the 12v outlet while applying makeup.
The most I would do on this car would have been the crank pulley. It still frees up a little power, you just have to figure out your belt length. Oh, and I'd probably use an Optima & be done with it.
Part of the benefit is the ratio change, the other part is reduction in weight from a stock steel pulley to a lightweight billet aluminum one.
Anyway, as I mentioned above, our batteries are basura even when new with no mods & Honda isn't big on overpowering systems, like brakes, or alternators. I had to replace my battery at only a year old. Add in navigation & a USB iPod interface, HID headlamps, blah blah blah, it's evidently not sufficient when new.
So...if you reduce the rate at which the alternator is turned, (smaller crank pulley) it's no longer at "full charge" at idle which is where the manufacturer designed it. Then to reduce it's charging ability further, you make the alternator pulley larger, slowing it down even more. Then, as you mentioned, you haven't driven the car everyday like you used to *and* there's an aftermarket stereo. Has no one experienced a dead battery at the airport parking garage after just a week long trip?
I've run UR pulleys on more apps than I can remember, seriously. I've had more cars than I am years old, I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, nor point a finger at either side...
BUT I don't remember ever using the alternator pulley in a pulley set. I'll take a few horse hit to have bright headlights in the dark, at idle, in the rain, with my wipers and a/c on and the stereo at level 25 with the navigation system doing whatever it does, and a hooker in the passenger seat using the 12v outlet while applying makeup.
The most I would do on this car would have been the crank pulley. It still frees up a little power, you just have to figure out your belt length. Oh, and I'd probably use an Optima & be done with it.
07-27-2011, 03:14 PM
#39
Just got directed to this post. First, thanks to Unorthodox for posting in this thread. While I do understand there is a lot of negatives being said here, I really can't speak more highly on them as a company and their products. They are consistently the best built, lightest, and perfectly balanced pulleys on the market.
As background on this part, let me first start by saying that we sell tons of this part, especially between the Accord i4 (which we had a customer do the initial testing) and the TSX. I have not ever heard of any issues with these pulleys if properly installed.
It is very possible that there was an installation issue in this case. No one, not I, the OP, or Unorthodox can really speak on that but it is a possibility. Especially with the two cases being mentioned above were purchased (through us) together and sent together to the OP and ecko. Not sure if they were installed by the same place or not or pointing fingers, but it is something that I'm pondering as this may be just an issue with installation.
In this situation, there really isn't any point that the pulleys are faulty. Infact they are not, they are slightly underdriven and perfectly balanced. The issue (assuming no installation issue) in this scenario may be in the TSX's charging system. The initial release of Accords with the i4 had a low charging system / weak battery that Honda we believe rectified. The worst case scenario here is that the underdrive is just too much on the TSX for some reason. This has not been an issue on the Accord, TSX, Civic, etc that we have seen this on, but it is possible that the system just weak. I can understand frustration from anyone if they buy a product and encounter issues, but there are many variables thrown in here that I hope we can all debug. That is why the load test came up. It is well known and documented that other draws of power, whether it be an aftermarket system or other electronics, or even a weak and/or faulty alternator/charging system can cause some issues. I'd be surprised if the TSX had a different/weaker charging system than the Accord, RSX, Civic, etc. but it could very well be possible.
What really surprises me is the components in this kit really have been tried and true, so our worst case scenario is that the system on the 2nd gen TSX just draws more power vs any other platform (could be additional electronics added from Honda, etc). What I mean by tried and true, is that this kit has been extremely popularly used in various forms including on the 1st gen TSX (same kit, just with an additional pulley) that has worked without any issues, not to mention the guys running them on other K20/24s.
Hope this helps! Rest assured, UR has already reached out to us and another major dealer to put our heads together and see if this is an isolated occurrence or if this is some sort of stand alone change on the 2G TSX.
Thanks,
Mark
EDIT: If anyone has any questions regarding this, please do not hesitate to contact us...as always
As background on this part, let me first start by saying that we sell tons of this part, especially between the Accord i4 (which we had a customer do the initial testing) and the TSX. I have not ever heard of any issues with these pulleys if properly installed.
It is very possible that there was an installation issue in this case. No one, not I, the OP, or Unorthodox can really speak on that but it is a possibility. Especially with the two cases being mentioned above were purchased (through us) together and sent together to the OP and ecko. Not sure if they were installed by the same place or not or pointing fingers, but it is something that I'm pondering as this may be just an issue with installation.
In this situation, there really isn't any point that the pulleys are faulty. Infact they are not, they are slightly underdriven and perfectly balanced. The issue (assuming no installation issue) in this scenario may be in the TSX's charging system. The initial release of Accords with the i4 had a low charging system / weak battery that Honda we believe rectified. The worst case scenario here is that the underdrive is just too much on the TSX for some reason. This has not been an issue on the Accord, TSX, Civic, etc that we have seen this on, but it is possible that the system just weak. I can understand frustration from anyone if they buy a product and encounter issues, but there are many variables thrown in here that I hope we can all debug. That is why the load test came up. It is well known and documented that other draws of power, whether it be an aftermarket system or other electronics, or even a weak and/or faulty alternator/charging system can cause some issues. I'd be surprised if the TSX had a different/weaker charging system than the Accord, RSX, Civic, etc. but it could very well be possible.
What really surprises me is the components in this kit really have been tried and true, so our worst case scenario is that the system on the 2nd gen TSX just draws more power vs any other platform (could be additional electronics added from Honda, etc). What I mean by tried and true, is that this kit has been extremely popularly used in various forms including on the 1st gen TSX (same kit, just with an additional pulley) that has worked without any issues, not to mention the guys running them on other K20/24s.
Hope this helps! Rest assured, UR has already reached out to us and another major dealer to put our heads together and see if this is an isolated occurrence or if this is some sort of stand alone change on the 2G TSX.
Thanks,
Mark
EDIT: If anyone has any questions regarding this, please do not hesitate to contact us...as always
Last edited by Throwdown; 07-27-2011 at 03:17 PM.
07-27-2011, 03:22 PM
#40
I have my pulley set installed on my 2004 for 5 years without any problem. However, one must be aware of certain potential issues with any type of modification, and take the appropriate precaution. This is just the nature of the game.
That being said, I did upgrade the battery to an optima just in case, even the voltage load test below didn't indicate any problems under normal operating condition.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=331
That being said, I did upgrade the battery to an optima just in case, even the voltage load test below didn't indicate any problems under normal operating condition.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=331