Bought the car new in April 2001 and have always used the Acura dealer for oil changes every 5k. With coupons - the oil changes at the dealer are so cheap - I can't do them myself any cheaper!

I currently have around 170k miles on the car. Switched to Valvoline High Mileage about 20k miles ago when they told me the rear main seal was leaking at it would be $1200 to fix it. It was a minor leak and the HM oil did the trick after about 1 month. It hasn't leaked since - until now. A very minor drip just under the drain plug. I mean exactly under the plug and I don't see any oil on the sides of the pan so I don't think it's the oil pan gasket. I also don't see any damage to the pan either - although I have to say this is just me sticking my head under the side of the car with a flashlight so my visibility is somewhat limited.

So about a month ago we had an oil change and it was fine. Same deal - done at the dealer with the OEM filter and the Valvoline HM oil (5w-20). The tech wrote on the ticket that the "drain plug was pretty beat up but doesn't need to be replaced now". I wish he had told me prior to picking up the car as I would have had him put a new drain plug in. But I really didn't think anything about it otherwise. But in the last week - I started seeing an oil drip on the garage floor as mentioned above. Very small and directly below the plug.

The only thing that has changed is that it has gotten quite a bit cooler here in north Florida in the past week - temps in the 50s and 60s vs 80s and 90s. Today it's actually in the 40s in fact.

So I am wondering if all I need is a new oil drain plug. Seems like a no-brainer based on the points made above but am I missing anything? Would the cooler weather perhaps be a factor in it starting to drip now - but not right after the last oil change when it was warmer? I guess I am hoping it's just the plug and not something wrong with the pan - like stripped threads. At this kind of mileage, the plug has been removed and reinserted around 33+ times so I can imagine that causes some wear in both the plug and pan. Thoughts?

 

the oil drain plug is frequently over-tightened- well past its 29 foot pound spec, which can pull the threads out of the pan!
in lesser cases it can distort the sealing surface of both parts

If they didn't replace the plug -while noting damage- they didn't replace the drain plug washer either
So now its too tight or too loose or getting past the washer
got a receipt?

the rear main seal is a big deal failure- the pain is removal of transmission to reach it- that's a 4 hour job at a trans shop- so far less $$ than you were quoted
remove the inspection cover- 2 bolts under trans/ engine connection = oil in there is from rear main and give you an idea how bad the leak is

You need to replace the PCV at this cars age, $10 at parts store 20 at dealer
It vents internal pressure- which seeks out the next weak point if clogged = lower main seal

You are a regular customer at dealer, who got the raw deal on a basic oil change!
NO reason for the junior tech doing the job not to tell the supervisor it needs a new one.
service writer contacts owner for approval of a price increase,

It NEEDS a new drain plug
even if its only 5 dollars they have to follow legal procedures

In my day it would have been `comp` to a good customer, a few bucks towards a lot of goodwill

 

Thanks 01tl4tl. Very helpful info. I actually thought at the time - what does a drain plug cost - 5 bucks? Why wouldn't you just do that! Its just dumb.

I did replace the PCV valve about a year ago when they first mentioned the rear main seal leak - same time I switched to the Valvoline HM oil. Funny - the dealer doesn't even stock the PCV valves for these cars. They said they "never" sell them so they have to order them. So I went to NAPA to get it and they laughed and said that the Acura dealer comes to them for these! Maybe it's me - but that sounds extremely odd.

The interesting thing about the HM oil - the first oil change after I switched, the drained oil was like MUD! I had always just used the dealership "stock" oil which is conventional oil up till the switch to the Valvoline HM which is semi-synthetic. Curious to me that the engine would have been this "dirty" with the stock dealership oil - which was changed religiously at 5k intervals since the vehicle was purchased new.

As for the rear main seal, I know it has to be done but what irks me on that is the tranny was replaced at 75k. Why wouldn't they have put a new seal on at that time! Just makes me angry when I think about it since it's an inexpensive part with huge labor costs - and they could have done this when all that labor was paid for by Acura ... arghhh!

So in summary - at a minimum I need a new oil drain plug and new washer. But if they over torqued it, I am going to need a new pan since the threads are probably stripped. If the latter is the case, do you think I can successfully argue that they hurt the pan since no one else has ever touched it? Or is this a wear item that eventually fails regardless of how careful you are (due to repeated oil changes)?

 

After cleaning up the oil and letting it get wet once again, I am not sure now its the drain plug. The plug area is wet again as if it's the plug - but when I feel around behind the plug (toward the rear of the car), I feel some oil there too. So either the oil is being pushed up there from the air flow when the car is moving - or I do have a pan leak or perhaps even oil from the rear seal is finding it's way to this point. But I can't see back up in there because I can't raise the car up. I guess I will have to have the dealer check it out. Do minor rear main seal leaks tend to have the drip appear right at the drain plug on this vehicle? Anyone know if that's the case by chance?

 

Not positive on where your leak may be originating from but could be the oil pan gasket if not the drain plug.
Funny I had the same thing stated to me last time I asked for a pcv at the dealer. Eh stated they never sell them and they never replace them. Does seem strange to me as for a cheap part that could cause pretty serious issues if it goes faulty, it is silly not to replace within 100k or less

 

Ya gotta look at the entire situation from the dealer's perspective......they really don't care about the minor PM stuff, they want the big buck jobs or even ultimately ......the dealership would really like to have you replace your ailing old car with a newer one.

Bottom line is the profit margin on the repairs or better yet for them, selling ya a new car !!!

 

^ well sure, obviously

 

at this point it could be a few places where bolts get loose- oil pan being something I would ck on every car that hits the lift! but the regular techs- no way they bother

guessing you have no tools- basic socket set to see if bolt is loose?

depending on whats really happening with the drain plug, it could just be rounded on the outside from use of wrong tool (giant pliers) or there may be a thread issue
I would hope if thread damage was the case- the dealer tech would have reported it as serious =need now fix!
Though in my life, techs didn't bother to look closely at things, especially if the plug washer not replaced - they wont see thread issues
Last guy may have cross-threaded it, next time its hard to get out but may be jammed back in = that's new pan or heli-coil the current one

Cheapest fix is a quick drain valve- about 25$, never remove again! it has an open/closed 1/4 turn lever and a hose to direct flow into drain pan- see our diy list for it
If threads are just dodgy but there- some epoxy to seal it will keep you going

 

A visit in person to speak with the SERVICE MANAGER not the writer is in order-
receipt in hand, that person will want to know why the car was sent home with a problem = if the plug comes out and engine seizes- they just bought you a new engine!

the reason you go to the dealer is trusting they have trained personnel
while their reason for the free/discount oil change is a chance to look over the car for potential revenue!
no freebie should leave without something being paid for!

the old adage: How many dollars does Free cost?

 

If the oil leak isn't too bad, wait until the next oil change and have a new drain plug and sealing washer installed. Hopefully the pan's drain hole threads are still good. There are oversized drain plugs available, along with the possibility of retapping the hole's threads.

Make sure everything is well cleaned underneath to assist in tracking any additional sources of leaking oil. Retorque the pan's retaining bolts and install a new PCV valve. Perhaps try a high mileage conventional 5-30 oil.

 

If the rear main wasnt leaking at that time there really isnt any reason for them to change it or mention to change it. Its not a part that gets touched or damaged during a trans replacement, nothing slides in or out of it, and it stays hidden behind the flex plate which doesnt come off during a trans replacement.


As for your oil issue, if you can live with it leave it till your next oil change. Get a new plug then.

 

Thanks for all the helpful info guys. I will watch it closely but will probably wait until the next oil change now and then get a new drain plug. I am interested in those quick change plugs however - that would make changes super simple going forward. Going to research that.

I may still crawl back under the car and see if I can get a better view of what's going on. It's not that I don't have tools or basic automotive skills - it's really that I hate crawling under the car when all I have is a floor jack and stands. Spent a good amount of time doing this in my youth - but not so interested in doing it any more.

And I still plan to call the assistant service manager whom I know pretty well and tell him I am not happy about the tech just noting the plug was beat up and not replacing it.

 

ask him what their copy of the work order says about problem with the drain plug- the tech should have made a note with specifics on their copy
Its beyond `not happy`- there is an oil leak after oil service -WHY?

its well worth getting under the car to make sure the plug is tight!
and remove the inspection cover to ck amount of leakage at rear main

 

I spoke to the asst service manager today. He claims the drain plug being "beat up" was simply in reference to the head of the drain plug. Seems odd he would recall that based on the number of cars they service but I do know he personally looked under the car when it was last serviced. But he was very willing to address my concern. He said its likely a bad crush washer and he has a way to replace it and not lose the new oil. I just need to get it there soon. And I will insist on a new plug as well. We didnt discuss this but I will ask them to also tighten down the oil pan bolts while its up in the air and also take a peek at the rear seal. Hoping all the above will resolve this issue. Thanks.

 

as a beat up plug is unusual it may have stuck in his mind- after hassling tech about not replacing it at the time

the DEALER- of all places- should INSIST on new crush washer EACH TIME
its a CRUSH washer for (insert your choice of higher powers- or not) sake!!
its crushed once to torque at 29 foot pounds- they are not plain normal flat washers~

its replaced as its not useable as a good seal after one use
We are talking tech basics 101

the method your buddy has to replace drain plug is: have a new plug and washer ready to go in one hand, undo drain plug and quickly insert new - tighten to spec
Add less than half a quart that was lost during the exchange
Done this many times in the past

 

Ha, hah.......they just don't want to own up to their Jr. mechanics, ya know.

The dealership will take care of a valuable customer such as yourself.......hoping that they eventually lure ya into another new car. Big dividends on a simple repair.

 

Yeah - I am a pretty good customer. Just bought a certified TL from the same place about 6 months ago. The 02 TL is being driven by my daughter - gave it to her back when she started driving in HS and she drove it through HS and all 5 years of college and now she's working and paying for all the maintenance. She's getting married early next year - and then it becomes her new husbands problem!

I picked up a new (07) Maxima at the point I gave her the 02 TL and I liked the Max pretty well (except the stupid CVT and weak headlights) - but gave it to my wife who is still driving it and I now drive the 2012 TL.

I have to say - one reason I bought another TL is the dealer. Nissan is a totally different experience - and not in a good way! Considering a Maxima runs about the same price as a TL - the difference in how you are treated at Acura is exponentially better. I just feel like the techs are trained better too - less baloney and they get it right the first time. That's just my opinion but its based on real experience at both dealers. While the Maxima hasn't been a bad car - the Max with 55k miles doesn't really feel as tight as the 02 TL with triple the mileage ...

 

what baffles me on this post is the car was only seen at the dealer for oil changes
So WHY was the drain plug `beat up` on the edges- where the correct sized wrench fully engages and grasp without rounding the grip points

or does the jr tech only own a big pair of pliers?

If they had brains the service writer would have slipped a new plug on without comment~ they damaged the existing one!

Acura is very good on schools - each specific job has a school/class and minimum level of mechanic experience/testing (Tech1 Tech2 etc) allowed to do it
So most of the time they can fix things right-
Of course this applies more to newer cars than our decades old baby~
they train where the money is!

Now there are enough ex dealer techs at private shops = where you pay less

 

I still say go to the real service MANAGER
that person is responsible to the customer, the company, and to acura corp for everything that goes out of the shop

If a tech is not replacing crush rings and cars are not getting new drain plugs every 10 times, MANAGER needs to know about it

your buddy will bury the facts

 

Ok - so I finally got the car back to the dealer and talked to them. When they got the car back up in the air - it's apparent the oil is coming from above. Not the plug as first thought. Just coincidence that it started just after the last oil change I suppose.

So anyway, the car has 168k miles on it. It's about 14 years old now. The dealer is saying it needs an oil pump "reseal" and that would cost $720 if I did it with the timing belt service (which is just under $1000) - but only if I did both jobs at the same time due to the savings on the labor. The timing belt service would include all the belts, water pump and tensioner. The reseal of the oil pump would include all the O-rings on the side of the engine.

They indicate that none of this is urgent but the timing belt is about due - and really should be done by Oct 2015 (it was last done by them in Oct 2008). They said the oil seep is very slow - few drops per day.

So I am trying to give my daughter and her fiancé advice on what to do. I am telling them that foremost - none of this is urgent. We can take our time. But what is the best course of action on this? Doing what the dealer is quoting would run just about $2k with tax. And that doesn't even address the $1200 to do the rear main seal - which is also a slow leak. I am just putting that item on the back of the back burner for now.

I really think the $720 for the reseal of the oil pump is the most questionable part of all of this. Maybe I just don't understand the complexity of this job!? I can however understand $999 for the timing best service ... which is actually less than what I paid last time. Why would the oil pump be so much - and I assume that doesn't even include a new oil pump?

Advice?

 

the only reason for the thousand dollar++ estimate at dealer for the tbelt is their parts markup and the book time/allowed 6-8 hours labor charge
on a job our mega mod can do in- get this,,, 45 minutes!!!

plenty of good private shops- often stocked with former dealer techs~ who can do the job right for a decent amount, but even some/most of them will try to get over on you.
I dropped by a place and the first thing the writer did was look out at my car- oh, lowered, rims, shocks = this guy must have money to blow so lets add 200 to the estimate and tell him its all day hard labor hours!!
What total BS

For those who don't know I was a service writer, manager and mechanic for many years and have familiarity with most of the tricks

the only thing you should let the dealer do is change your oil- if you still trust them to do that
for the dealer- or any good shop- they want to ck things to make sure you are safe and if any dollars are to be made today = every dollar now is a dollar closer to making the monthly bills
Oil leaks observed when the car is in the shop are supposed to be reported- given at least a few minutes of inspection,, so the car doesnt leave and drop 5 qts on the road

what was the story on drain plug= not really damaged?

note its ok to slightly overfill the TL engine oil- especially for those with known leak
Many of us put in a full 5 qts with new filter at oil change- that's not so much it will froth in the crankcase but will give you a little reserve

 

Thanks for the info. Been traveling for business this week so I am little delayed in responding. Yes - the drain plug was actually fine. It had a little bit of rounding on the edge but it was tiny and not significant. Why they noted it the way they did on the earlier visit is a mystery. Thanks for the info.

 

great reason not to trust a word that escapes their lips,, ever again!