closetprisoner

Hope this help with other who may have a similar issue..


My car was operating trouble free no issue whatsoever, but over the weekend, I was backing out my car and happen to see my neighbor then we chat for a bit, so I turned off my car. After that brief conversation with my neighbor, I went back to my car and ALL SUDDENLY it wouldn’t start, WTF, it just crank and I kept cranking it a few time, maybe until about 30 seconds later of some long cranks, it started but run rough and I can hear pre detonation, it like knocking sound. I figure it may be flooded and would wear off.



As the engine first started and rough idle, engine light blinks, and the TCS stayed on. It wasn’t even moving at this point yet, so I went back inside to get my scanner and like 6 different codes of multiple misfire and the 4th pressure switch, so went reset and took it out for a short drive with slight misfire at this point. CEL came back, this time no TCS but misfire with 3 misfire codes and hard start persist.


I figure it was running flawlessly and just suddenly, car doesn’t want to start give all this misfire codes. Immediate guess is coils and plugs, EGR/passage, map, etc.. but I didn’t touch any of these items.


I called to some mechanic friends, and ask if it could be my main relay and they agreed that it's very possible that it the main relay as he has deal with a customer car with similar symptom which he change the main relay and solved.


So that’s what I did. Remove and re-solder the main relay, no more hard start and no code came back, yet .. so just to share, if you have a hard start and it misfire all of a sudden? a high possibility its your main relay.

Nicks2001tl

Thanks for the info! The simple fix did it.

3.2TLc

Hey Closetprisoner, thanks for sharing the info concerning your car's sudden problem of hard starting and rough running. This is not always a simple issue to resolve. You were rather fortunate to have found the faulty main relay for the PGM-FI. This is a known weak spot with older Honda products and is often overlooked as the culprit.

The PGM-FI main relay is definitely a good place to start....instead of doing the shotgun approach. It's fairly easy and inexpensive to rule this relay out as the cause of what appears to be some really serious stuff going wrong with the car.

This may save others from spending alot of wasted time and money when attempting to troubleshoot the symptons previously mentioned.

"Merry Christmas" !!!

Tosh

Closetprisoner:
Everything there is to know about your Honda/Acura main relay:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainr....html#blueline
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainr...mainrelay.html

closetprisoner

Just to update the re-solder of relay didn’t really fix the problem, but to reiterate the problem, it has hard start only when engine is hot (operating temperature), and if I drive it more than 40 mins then stop to start back up within 5-15 mins later, it would hesitate and misfire. I see other posts with the same similar issue.

I have read about the “hot soak” and saw the TSB, but question why it never did it before and just now? I even dump in few injectors cleaner and even get gas at a different gas station, didn’t help.

Items I have done, check, swap;
Spark plug replaced (cheapest thing to start with), check coils, good.
Check fuel pressure, good. 36psi at idle, remove FPR vacuum then at 46psi, also no leak on pressure when engine off (sat for 20 mins).
Clean carbon passage, plenum, EGR, etc.. 10k miles ago.
Adjust valve again, not out of range cuz I adjusted it 10k miles ago.

What I found is, if remove FPR vacuum, car run fine, no misfire at hot start. And just to check, I reinstall the vacuum back to FPR when engine is hot, it would hesitate at start, then remove the vacuum again, no hesitation at start.. hhmm.. so no vacuum tube attach at this time.

So been driving like this for few days now. I am hoping it my problem and waiting for the new FPR to arrive from rockauto. Will update when part arrive.

TLer trash

Sounds like the increased fuel pressure is helping. I've got my daughter's 00 tl in the shop today for some suspension work, maintenance, and the later model higher pressure regulator. Hers has been getting more symptomatic, but I won't know till we hit 70 degrees or so. Lately, anything above ZERO feels balmy, so it might be awhile.

ErickUa5

closetprisoner Check out my posts in this thread it may help with your situation. Post #23 https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/00-tl-starting-problem-903462/

closetprisoner

^ Thanks.. i'll take a quick look tomorrow, also my FPR arrive tomorrow too and will find out if it the problem or I just dump $90 for nothing.

TL been running good with no 'hot start' hesitation/misfire issue with vacuum line remove from fpr.

I also got an Ody, just pass 180k and has been flawless.

closetprisoner

So I just dump $90 for nothing.. new fpr, same result.. so keep driving without vacuum.

I believe it hot soak, cuz retest fuel pressure, with operating temperature, shut down with hood close for 10 mins or so, fuel pressure rise few pounds and thinking this increase in pressure is from boiling fuel/vapor. I'm guessing it maybe higher if run hot enough and waited longer.

So winter gas in summer like weather is the cause??

Does anyone know if there's a pressure valve in the fuel pump? where it should relief the pressure and return gas back into the tank when engine off?

3.2TLc

It appears as though this is a rather common problem as our cars age. Possibly due to the fuel and electrical systems showing the affects of their many years of service within less than ideal working conditions, IDK.

While I'm unsure....but possibly the EVAP vacuum system has something to do with this problem. Maybe a bad electrical connection or poor ground, who really knows ??? Perhaps the fuel system pump, filter or return line is gunked up ! More than likely a sticky solenoid valve or restricted line, IDK....but we all seem to have a seasonal bout with this shit.

ErickUa5

I dont know if our cars have it but there has to be a check valve at the pump, maybe stuck open or worn out not sure.

Haven't had a chance to check the CKP sensor connector on the TL, The weather is not permitting here. On the Oddy it was easy but not on the TL I think I would need to remove the strut brace to gain access.

ErickUa5

Heres the location of the sensor, Remember connections also act differently in different temperatures.
This is when I did the swap from the TLp to the type s and ever since I've had long cranks.