Alright here goes. I have been a TLs fan for 7 years, I have a 158k have lived through 2 trannys, one dealer paid at 60k, I just did the the other at 155k for 3k, now with 2 year warranty. I luv the car. Here is where I am at now, for the past month that disappeared above 2,500rpm, I've had this obvious ticking sound coming from what seemed like above the oil pan area. I was on the was to the garage, because now the ticking was even above 2,500rpm and it got all rough and misfiring, I was starting out and going about 5 mph, just pulled over and had it towed. The guy was telling me the previous guy (friend mechanic in his own garage), on that put my timing belt in wrong and needed to redo, ok, $700 and thinks that will be it, and then its running rough. Air pressure valve test says I have a bent valve/s. The mechanic says the valve work would be at least 1,500 and thought I might be better off to swap out the engine. I can pick up and engine for 750-1,000 w/ a one year warranty? that range from 46k -155k mileage from these broker guys. or buy a JDM Honda J32A Engine 60k mileage used on ebay for about a 1k.

My question now is? What would you do? Swap engine? My mechanic guy is telling me if I buy the engine, then I would probably be looking at like 1,500 to install and I should probably have him take that new timing belt off my existing engine. So then I'm probably 2,500, but that's ok is it runs great.

I feel like I got a new tranny and want to get some more time out of this car. I really like it. Or is changing out a motor just the beginning of the end and nothing will run right anymore. I'm a little torn. I feel like my car is worth almost nothing if its not running. probably 7k if it's running good and really want to get more life out of this thing. Has anybody seen the success of these engine swaps or valve work? What to do? Thanks in advance. I meet the mechanic in the morning and might be able to buy some time, but really need advice.

 

Hey Buzzman996, ya have a big decision to make....don't rush it until ya get a 2nd opinion. Replacing the motor would definitely be the easiest and best way to get your car back on the road. With the long expensive hours involved doing a rebuild, the motor swap labor should be considerably less time spent. Any reputable mechanic should stand behind their installation work, but ya need a good donor for a motor.

It's best to see the actual car which the motor is coming from, how it was hit, miles, etc. Alot of them are in the yard because of blown tranny's ! Try to find a guaranteed motor and check other places for a labor quote to drop it in. $1500 seems rather high for just installing a motor, IMO.

 

After a couple hours of engine searching. Ebay seems to be a decent forum for buying, as the seller has a record, and most show the vehicle and mileage the engine is coming from,(supposedly).

JDM out of Canada has a few motors, that showed compression numbers, of 200 and 240 for 2 engines priced at 950 and 1,100us, respectively that seemed to include alternator and these were out of cars listed at less than 50k mileage. I'm seeing with shipping a range from: 600.00 to 1,300.00 for used engines ranging from mileage 172k to 46k. Some are with a one year, 6 month to 30 day warranty. It's a little dicey, but it seems paying a little extra for something that may have less miles and supposedly seeing the car it came out of, could be money well spent. Chime in if others see this differently. thanks in advance.

How important are the compression numbers? 9 out of 10 don't even list them, as they probably aren't tested.

 

Yeah, I know that ya gotta meet your mechanic today.....chances are that he already has a line on a motor close to your area. The TL motors are very durable and can run troublefree for 200k and more if the "PM" and T-belt service was done. It's always desirable to get a lower mileage documented and warranted motor, but ya gotta have alot of faith in your installer. ('99>'03) 2nd gen TL 3.2 motors are interchangeable.

If he's locating the motor and installing it, then he should be accountable for giving you a reasonable warranty for this service. $2500 total is quite a bit of money and you deserve some peace of mind with the replaced motor.

 

In all honesty, IF the belt was put on wrong
I would make them pay for it. It was their mistake. It also sounds like the garage is a little incompetent and you should be looking else where. At least for a 2nd opinion.

As for motors, use this site and search for motors.

http://car-part.com/

 

Well, it lasted a year, if it was put on wrong, wouldn't it would have reared its head a little sooner? I've already screwed myself, by taking it someone else now. I'm into this guy for like $500 for the timing belt and he can switch that over to the next motor. What is a reasonable price to swap motors and take the new timing belt out and put in next engine?

 

There is no wrong way to put on the belt. It just goes on. It sounds like he had the timing marks off by quite a margin. That will do it. That's why you need to turn the engine by hand a few times to make sure all the marks are lined up before telling yourself the tbelt service is done.

 

I have heard the same story about timing belt was installed wrong; they fixed the tb for an amount of money, then started up the car, and now saying the engine is toast. I can feel the pain. The mechanic should have advised to check the valves and related items before perfoming the timing belt fixed. If they have said the valves were bent before hand, then the owner could have decided what to do from there. Problem is untrustworth mechanics just want to take the money, and take more money for the next fixes. If they said they don't know if fixing the tb timing would fix the problem, then you should take the car elsewhere.

 

Hey Buzzman996, Your original post was somewhat confusing.....please try to simplify the initial reason to do the T-belt and then give a sequenced timeline of following events leading to the present issue.

If ya missed the 105k T-belt service, and went for a budget job....but it lasted a year....one would think the belt would've crapped earlier if installed wrong.....so, now you've went to another mechanic who is apparently gouging ya at $1500 for dropping in another motor. Hmmm, get another quote !

IMO, ya ought to be able to get a motor replaced by a shop for less than $2000 total....motor and warranty included !

 

Time line: 2003 Acura TL-S
Bought certified pre-owned from Acura Dealer 2006 w/ 41k miles for 21K @great interest rate.
2008 Tranny goes @ 66,000. Acura steps up, replaces, I don't pay a nickel.(thank you Jesus)

2011 -125k mileage - timing belt replaced by a master lexus mechanic in his own garage, did waterpump and pulleys,etc, replaced all rotors and brakes. Changed oil/antifreeze for $1,100. This guy came highly referred works on the weekends for $30 an hour.

2012 -Dec. 156k - Tranny goes 100 miles out of town in Cincinnati and I take it a transmission place that thinks he can fix it for estimated. $1,500, so I agree. This joker comes back with me options of 1) Replace with used $3,000. 2) Rebuild existing $3,900. 3) Replace with rebuilt $4,900. His only warranty was I had to take it back there for a $200 service every year on the exact month. I wanted to kill this guy. So I order a rebuilt transmission from Willow Creek for $1,700 w/shipping and he puts it in for $1,200 total which included the remote transmission cooler. In short, tranny with 2yr unlimited miles for $2,900.00 and avoid a murder conviction. (I included this because it is clouding my future judgement. as I just dropped 29 hund.)

2013 - Jan 158k- starts making ticking sound that starts at idle and goes away above 2,500 rpm. This was following my trip to the florida keys that I pushed her pretty fast, I was cooking, miracle I didn't get a ticket. I try to get my car over to the my master lexus guy, but logistics didn't work, I was traveling a lot and i couldn't get it over to him.

2013 - Feb - Was doing more research trying to figure, what this ticking was and it seemed to be coming above the oil pan around the belt area. I'm thinking belt tensioner, bad bearing. Something easy. I changed my oil at home, the ticking was gone for two days or considerably less. Ticking comes back and i stopped by this local reputable shop a half a mile away, because I was thinking it something simple and say I'll drop it off the next morning. When I start out off a slow roll, starts misfiring badly, immediately pull over, I was maybe going 5 mph. Call AAA- I then should have realized this is no longer simple.

I(idiot) still took it up the street to the reputable mechanic and he started looking at it and sees my timing belt was very loose. This is where he probably should have done a valve test or earlier, I suppose. He replaces the timing belt and pulleys, its running rough, that is when he does the valve test. Says valve job or engine swap and would rather do a swap.

I'm picking up an engine for $650 delivered that came out of a rear crashed 2003tl s (6 month warranty). No exchange or core charge.

This guy is telling me at the end of the day it may be $1,500 for the installation with all the fluids, parts, etc. He is going to do this swap Time & Materials. He is going to take the new timing belt, pulleys and switch it over. He had about $400-500 in looking into this problem and the timing belt change, which he agreed to work with me on. Do I think this guy did the timing belt just to smoke me out of extra money? no. Do I think this guy is capable of a successful engine swap? 95% so. Am, i looking into and considering others, yes. I got another quote for 1,275 for the swap. Am I going to tow my car across town to save 2-3 hundred, maybe? no I know a few of you said run, but really? Tell me.

side note:
Does my bent valve engine have any value? parts?

2 batteries, 2 brake jobs, 3 sets of tires, oil changes, air filters and the nightmares noted above is all I have in this car for 120k miles I've had her. This car starts everyday and can take off like a scared cat when asked. I luv this car.

 

Ok Buzzman, that makes more sense now. Thanks.

One question, have you been able to contact your "master Lexus mechanic" to get his opinion on the failed T-belt and the present situation ?

Perhaps @ $30/hour, you could have him do the motor install.

$1200 best quote divided by $30/hr = 40hrs of labor - misc. extra parts cost
He ought to be able to do it in a weekend ! It's worth a shot.

 

Update: "master Lexus mechanic" - no response, flake, FHim.

I checked all around at other shops on engine swap rates and they were all: 1,200-1,550 for the engine swap. Then there is craigslist and that felt wrong before I even dialed. A guy actually told me he could do it for 400 in a friends garage, but he didn't know the address. I called a few more mechanics on craigslist and I didn't have any cozy vibe whatsoever. My wisdom got the best of me.

I searched high and low for used engines on the internet, was about to pull the trigger on one for 700.00 with 67k miles. Then the mechanic that I have the car at now did a search and told me about an engine that is actually 4 miles from my house. A 2002 tls with 16k miles(16k). I asked him if he wanted to purchase it and I could pay him for the whole thing and he could offer some kind of warranty. He is at 1,550 with all fluid changes and switching over all the timing belt hardware, etc. But he still wants the 550 for the timing belt work.

So I go look at the junk yard engine and the only red flag I had was this thing had been on the shelf since 2006, only 16k mikes, $875 out the door. (why hasn't anybody bought this?) I paid for a vin report, accident in 2006, 16k miles. It has a half inch of dust on it and no sign of leaks, all bolt points looked good, on a top shelf 20 ft in the air. The guy pulls it down, I take some pictures, that I can't post for a week, because I'm so new. This engine appears a gem. It has the blue scheme to it. I pulled the oil stick, looked very clean. I opened the oil filler cap, that felt like was super glued shut, I put a flash light in there and I looked like a cleanest thing I'd ever seen. Anyway, I bought it $875 delivered.

I asked the guy if he could refer me to anybody for the swap, gives me a card for a guy that is a mile away, two man shop. I pull up, mini plaza type warehouse, one lift, I'm thinking perfect. I meet the guy, probably 30 yrs old, energy guy. He was doing a timing belt on a honda when I got there. (perfecter) He said the junk yard sends him an engine swap a week. $800, $850 w/ new fluids, belts. My guy! He said he would even swap the timing belt.

So I was going to go back to where my car is now and since basically he wants 1,550 and 550 for the timing belt fiasco,(installed before the pressure test). I was going to cut bait pull the car and try to get him to come off that 550 some more, I was going to at least try to guilt him a little bit without pissing him off. (try to get him down to cost) The car was in there for 2 hours on Friday and 6.5 on Saturday and he is $80 an hour. Hopefully the newer engine is as good as it looks(under the dust). And he really found it for me, which he doesn't have to know.

My question to you guys is there any other thing I want to be cautious about on this swap?, or precautionary stuff that may be a good idea to replace that is alot easier during swap, since I appear to have found my savior. New motor mounts? etc?

I appreciate everyones help.

 

Gotta wonder if the problems started with the master Lexus mechanic ~or~ the most recent shop or both ???? If by chance, the Lexus guy did a quickie t-belt job that eventually caused the present issue and the last shop failed to analyze potential damage properly, you are left holding a bag of shit...."blown engine " !! Both owe ya a bit, but good luck.....unless ya have some paperwork or proof to back ya up.

The present combo needs to be warranted somehow to prevent potential issues should they arise.

 

NOTE: Before the swap, replace both crank seals on either end of the engine. They are dry on that sitting engine and will leak shortly. Especially the rear main seal. Easy job for the front one since you will replace the timing belt to boot.

 

HERE SHE IS, AFTER WIPING "SOME" DUST OFF. I JUST NEED SOMEBODY TO TELL ME I GOT THE WRONG ENGINE. 2003 TL S - 16K ON SHELF FOR 6 YEARS.

 

Removing the OIL FILL Cap was like cracking a 20 year old Bourdeaux. SIDEWAYS?

 

Yeah Buzzman996, keep us posted with a progress report on your TL.

 

A couple more thoughts on your situation; first, your friend who did the belt the first time did something wrong. It's hard to say if he didn't replace everything that he should have, used even one inferior part, or misadjusted or mistorqued anything. I think it's reasonable to expect the belt to last as long as the original. Unfortunately no one will give you an 8 year, 105,000 mile warranty. Even if you had paid a garage instead of a friend, 12 months, 12,000 miles is about as good as you'll get. That still doesn't make it right.
I can't remember if you said you were going to have the place that put the second belt on do the rest of the engine repair or replacement. Regardless; they should have done a cylinder leakdown test before they put a timing belt on. Sometimes you can just pull a valve cover and check for any valves not seated. At any rate, they gambled, and lost, and want you to pay. I think $200 - $250 would be a reasonable charge to do this test, depending on local labor rates, and how many cylinders they had to test.

 

Alright, now the engine swap is done, but the mechanic says the green key light on the dash is flashing and it will not stay started. Is this a security type thing? The battery has been out for 3 plus weeks. He is taking the key to an
Acura dealer, which is what he read he should do. I didn't think the keys had chips or anything in the 2nd generation, so I don't know. I'm out of town, so I'm looking for insight. He hooked up my original wiring harness, because the one that came with the engine was snipped off close to the block. Any ideas what this might be and hope it is a easy fix.

 

Yes, these keys have an immobilizer chip in them. Did he mess with any of the dash wiring or swap ecus?

 

If its the same ecu and key it should not have a problem, I have an 03 tls engine in my 2000 with the same ecu and key started up on the first shot. Out of curiosity has the main relay been checked?

 

Finally, figured out what the problem was. but not after a bunch of not knowing. The guy that was doing the swap and could not figure it out, so he took it to my dealer. It was at the dealer for 2 weeks(high priority) They said they could not figure it out(computer stuff and key changes), then they said it was,,,,,drum roll.. 6 out of 6 of the injectors were clogged or bad and had to be replaced. So the mechanic guy takes it back to his garage and takes 4 from my old engine and buys 2 new. My mechanic guy felt so bad and pissed he could not figure it out sooner and even went into the hospital for some surgery, while it was at acura. The thought was just that the engine I put in sat for 6 years and injectors just went bad?? Acura charged my mechanic $300 to finally figure it out. So he charged me a total of $1,300 for the swap and that included paying Acura. I was getting so frustrated, spent $700 on 5 weeks on a rental car. I was getting really down on the whole process and really was getting bummed out about TL's and the path I took, I almost bought a truck. But when he gave it back to me, that all changed. I got a car that has never run better and purrs like a kitten. It is quieter than it ever has been at idle and really smooth. It actually hauls ass, I stomped on it a few times and it is so solid. It feels and acts like it has less than 50k, of course the engine I put in had 16k on it. I was able to get $250 back from the yard that sold me the engine of the original $875, because of the hassle I went through. It's been a long haul, but I am back as a believer. I love my TL-S.

Timing belt tabokel: $650

Used (16k) Engine: $875 - 250= $625
Installation: $850 + 450(acura diagnotics + injectors) = $1,300
Rental cars: $750
Frustration of not knowing if any of this crap was gonna work: Alot

Volunteering my car for any bank robbery get away with confidence, Priceless

I even had a noise prior to this that I thought was a ball joint going bad or a strut, but I actually thought the guy that switched my Tranny in December, just didn't get things aligned exactly. That sound is gone.

I went from a car that I would get zero on a trade in a month ago or a grand for scrap, To a sweet ride (knock on wood). My car was starting to feel tired when it had 160k on it, now it flat out rocks.

 

Hey Buzzman, good to know ya got things worked out finally.

Just keep in mind,.....that even though ya got a younger 16k donor for the car's heart,.....don't be neglecting the rest of the old 160k gal,.....otherwise the temptation to break something else may result in a visit to the "ER" for bionic replacement limbs !

Remember to massage and soak all of the old gal's other aging vital parts. She will in turn then provide you with total satisfaction for giving her a breath of new life !!! "Sweet 16"