Before everyone here flames me, YES I have searched, and YES I have done much research.

I pretty much have everything figured out. The only real issue that I foresee so far is what to do about the e-brake. I'm thinking that physically there IS enough room on the floor, but I think that 4 pedals would super weird. My thoughts are to get the CL center console/e-brake and use a portion of that and custom make the rest.

I know everyone here thinks it will be too pricey, but I have found a donor car that I can get everything out of including the major things:

Trans
Axles
Engine
ECU
Cluster
shifter
Shift cables
e-brake assy
center console
mounts
misc crap x 100

I have been reading in depth on v6p about the accord guys that have done the swap. What are everyone's thoughts? I know that this is going to be very involved and take some serious time. I just really like my TL, but man do I hate the tranny. I plan to get the entire drivetrain out of an '03 CL-S and swap it all over.

It truelly a possible mod but just a little pricey. If you go through with it, good luck!

By the way, your tl dynoed at 188hp? With what mods? Is that stock?

i say do it

That is with OBX headers and an AEM cai going through the 4 speed auto. The run was done in 3rd. 140k miles at time of dyno, 160k now.

It sounds like a great idea, so long as it's relatively easy to do, won't nickel and dime you to have it run properly, and so that you don't spend more time fixing it than driving it.

Are you planning on doing the work yourself?

DO IT! your status will become an AcuraZine God if you do. PS..a write up needs to be done

It'd be cheaper and easier to get a CL-S6 in the first place. Plus you'd have a warranty and you'd never had headaches but I'd love to see it done. I just don't think it's a wise decision unless you've got one hell of a disposable income.

If i could have aforded to be with out a car for as long as it took to do i would have done it along time ago.

Well, not all by myself, this is a heavy arse engine/trans combo. With the help of the shop I work at(PFI, if you are on v6p dot net, we are the ones that make the turbo kit for the Maxima). I will undertake this with all the proper tools, and with the people that can figure out the wiring.

I need to wait until next year, there are a few things that are going to happen before I can undertake this.

1. I am in the process of building a new house, this has to happen 1st.
2. I need to buy another car to carry clients in (Honda Pilot is highly probable).
3. Then I can start.

Being that I sell homes for a living, I need to have something other than my CRX while the TL is down(something tells me it will take the better part of a month or two). As soon as that happens, I am going to tear in to this thing. The reason I want to do this to the TL is I need the 4 door for carrying people around, trust me, if I could just get a 2 door, I would have.

When the time comes, there will be a detailed write up. I plan to take notes, pictures, videos etc. I just need to figure out the pedal/ebrake situation. I think to start I am going to just try and leave the standard floor ebrake and try it for a while, if it sucks, then I will have to hack into the center console and make some custom stuff.

When I took apart the center console a while back, I noticed the e-brake cables being routed underneath it, just like in the CL-S6. The two cables hook into one cable which is then routed to the pedal. You can cut it right there and hook it up to the handle... which will require replacing the center console from a CL-S6.

Good luck, man!

wow, havent seen you post in a while, dands. good luck with the swap if you do do it!! and must show picsssss!

Yeah between working at the shop, doing real estate, and race season with the CRXs, there hasn't been much time for anything else. Trust me, when it comes time, I will take LOTS of pictures.

I have been researching the swap too. Since yours is a 99, your going to need the new engine cradle, mounts, wiring harness, clutch pedal, various sensors, new exhuast system, intake system, and a whole lot more other items that aren't coming to mind. I hope this takes you a while, cuz I am still piecing my swap together and I want to be the first. haha

I am waiting until my auto trans takes a crap after 100K.

Well it will not be for a while, unless this trans craps out before then. (160k on it and counting) Like I said in an earlier post, need to buy another car before I can tear in to this one. And that can't happen until after the new house is done.

Anyone know if all the Accord Coupe V6s run on drive by wire?

Not all of them. Although, I never really got interested enough to tell which one had it and which one's didn't. I F*CKIN HATE drive by wire WITH A PASSION!

I believe I can offer some input here, as of course this was my thought. Running a 99TL, and our trannies and drivetrain suck up about 30% of your power, where your average standard will take a mere 15%. So I figured that you can bolt on all the crap you want, and get power 5HP at a time, or can go for a tranny swap and get 15% (33.75HP of 225) more to the wheels. Perfect idea.

Now I looked into this. The joy is that it's not just the tranny. I had three mechanics who build Honda engines and trannies who said the exact same thing. It's all linked up. What? I asked! Well the tranny is linked into the ECU by various means and replacing the tranny means needing the encoded keys for the car in question. Great- we can get them from Acura... but Acura won't get them to you unless you own the VIN. To own the VIN of a wrecked car, you need to buy the whole front chopped off at the firewall.... That portion of the car runs up around 10-12K CDN for a V6 Accord, which I was thinking of doing the swap with (same platform as the 99TL).

Top that off with needing the various clutch components, and that price goes up- the master cylinder, etc. Add in interior mods for the e-brake (note that the wire does go under the cup holder... but you still need to modify the dash somehow). Not to mention the fact that there is little point in that unless you can put a limited slip diffy in there.

In general, it's too much work, and a lot of coin in order to convert your tranny. I went into this process thinking that it would be a couple K at most and a cheap upgrade, but once I started finding pricing of obtaining such a tranny, let alone getting it in there, it all added up.

You're way better off selling the 99TL (worth 13-14CDN probably) and buying a V6 Accord for around the same price, or even a CL for around the same price if you don't mind the two-door. I'm a big fan of some mods, but at the same point, at some point you realize you're driving a four-door-family-sedan with a 4spd auto... You can buy an equally old (5yrs for your 99TL) car with a lot more juice and a good standard tranny for the same price.

-M

While I do agree, I also have to disagree. I know about the coded keys already and have worked that out. I have a few friends that work at the dealership and have helped the shop I work at with getting keys recoded in the past. I would really like to keep the TL, I personally think it is nicer then a V6 Accord. I know for certain that I could just sell this and buy something like an E39 540, and believe me, I would LOVE to do just that.

There are a couple things that have kept from doing so, as I nearly sold the TL for a very nice '98 540i not too long ago. The insurance on the car is very high. The rear wheel drive while it kicks ass for performance, it really rather sucks in the snow. I still may explore this option, depending on what happens over the next few months.

I feel comfertable that with the help of the shop I work at, I can get the Type S engine, trans and ecu in the car and running for about $4,000. With the parts costing $3,000, I think that with the remaining 1k, it should easily cover misc extras. Labor will be free, and being a BIG part of any major swap like this, that will help out a lot.

I work at a dealership so I got that covered too. And I already tried searching for components, GOOD LUCK getting them all for under $3000.

When i was looking into it i found pretty much every thing i needed (including a engine and 6speed tranny with 30k on them) for aroud 3700. I just couldnt be with out the car for long while i worked out the bugs.

That is similar to what I have found. I think working for the shop has gotten me better pricing. I also plan to replace the engine at the same time since this one has a lot of miles on it.

Hmm...I just found out the chassis code for the CL-S six speed and its nowhere near the same as the TL. That has me scared, sounds like a lot more fabrication will be necessary. Where did you guys find it for that price? I been looking everywhere and can't get it together. Who knows, since we three are the only ones that seem willing to attempt this mod, we might be able to get together on this thing and help each other out. A little help never hurts.

the accord guys have droped this combo in. the engines and tranny arent different, nor are the chassis. it shoudl drop in.

This is a list from AV6

('03 Acura CL-S 6sp Manual)
*Unknown*-------------------Transmission Assy.
22100-PGE-026---------------Flywheel
22200-PGE-006---------------Disk, Friction
22300-PGE-006---------------Disk, Pressure
24600-PYZ-000---------------Stay, Change Wire
31200-PGE-A11RM------------Motor Assy., Starter
46600-S3M-A51---------------Pedal Assy., Brake
46910-S3M-A01---------------Pedal, Clutch
46930-S3M-A01---------------Cylinder, Slave
50805-S3M-A03---------------Rubber,FR Transmission Mounting
50806-S3M-A03---------------Rubber,RR Transmission Mounting
90011-PGC-000---------------Bolt 12MM (Qty of 8)
90034-PRC-000---------------Bolt, 12Point 8M (Qty of 6)


Parts list: Parts we used were:

1. Acura trans
2. Acura cl-s starter
3. Acura cl-s bracket on the trans to hold the shift linkage ( I list this because it is a pain
in the ass to get) We actually had this fabricated cos it is still unavailable. We are using
the Honda 4cyl console and cables. If you put in the cls cables you might be able to use the
stock Acura bracket (cable stay).

4. Acura axle seals
5. Acura Flywheel
6. Stock Honda axles, the Acura axles are the same part number.
7. Accord 4cyl console, shifter and shift linkage. (it fit right in)
8. Acura brake and shift pedal.
9. Acura clutch and pressure plate.
10. Acura throw out bearing.
11. The ECU was put into d1 and there is a push button starter to make the ECU think it is in park.
(Button Idea thanks to Ei-ccord)
12. 2 Acura vibration mounts for the trans. There were already holes for a bracket that bolts to
the CL trans. The mounts are huge, much larger than the Honda ones.
13. Stock Honda intermediate shaft
14. 92 Honda civic master cylinder.

The trans bolted up perfectly and actually is smaller and reduced the weight by about 150 LBS.
the stock axles and most of the mounts and intermediate shaft was used. Acura was a ***** to deal
with cos the dealers we called in so cali (4 of them) didn't know a damn thing. We eventually
contacted Falconi's Acura in Las Vegas. They were really cool and helpful. We hade to have P/N
24600-pyz-000
fabricated we where told by Acura it could take 1 week to 1 year.

The ECU:
The ECUwas put into D1 and we used a push button starter to make it think it was in Neutral to
get it started.
The VSS (Vehicle speed sensor) If the wheels are not moving or the ECU isn't hooked up to the
correct sensors there is a saftey feature that lowers the rev limiter to 5000 RPM. There are
some sensors that send certain signal when the car is moving at 3 MPH or higher. On the AT
there is a main and a counter shaft. The ECU sends out a signal and gets one back from these
sensors when the car is moving. The pulse is modified by a magnet in one of these sensors that
sends the signal back to the ECU. As the wheels spin faster the signal gets "chopped" up by the
magnet and the ECU just reads that. It is a saftey feature that Honda put in the keep people from
Neutral dropping. 5000 is what it hits at.
There was more to this; it took some help from friends at Honda of America in torrance who gave
me specifics about the internals and pinout of the sensors for the Honda and the Acura.

Problems so far:

1. Breaking engine mounts. My car is supercharged so this might be the reason but I broke
the mount near the passenger side. Totally destroyed it within 3 weeks, it was so cool.
I got the new one form our friends Faloconi's Acura in LV. $62.91

2. The reverse lockout or gear selector selenoid was pretty much unusable when the trans arrived.
It costs 200.00 wholsale for a new one. Also the AT ECU does not have a connector for this cos AT
doesn't use it. What we are going to do is use a switch. When it is on the car will go into
reverse when it is off the reverse is locked out. I was drivning and went form 4th to 6th but
missed and grinded reverse. It felt like any other manual does when you do this but any other
manual would have had this selenoid. Mine didn't so I wasted reverse... another week without my
car and had to pull the engine out again. Also found we had destroyed completely the pilot bearing.
It was pretty much un recognizable we only knew what it was cos the pilot bearing was missing. We just found peices of it.
So when you put a trans back onto the engine, make sure it is all lined up and goes on fairly easy. Don't use the bolts to get
it on cos there is probably something mis alligned.and you could break something like a pilot bearing.

3. Make sure the bolts for the pressure are not too long. the pressure plate and flywheel for the
CLS look way strange so it is hard to tell.
Make sure you either use the bolts that are used by Acura or they are the right length.

4. The clutch pedal has two bolts. There is a brace but it will not fit. One of the two bolts
over about a period of 1 month starts coming loose and the pedal flexes a lot, this mean that as
you push the pedal down it flexes too much before the clutch starts engaging. Shifting get kind
of hard or impossible. Use locktite or better yet what we are doing is making a metal plate,
like a backing. After we bolt that down behind the pedal flange it should give it some more support.

Again I wanted to let you know that the count is up to 5 Acura dealers in SoCal who screwed us over.
Acura in Pasadena, orderd pilot bearing, 2 days later went to pick it up and they never even placed the order.

We called all the Acura dealers to see if we could get the slider I tore up for reverse, they tried
to sell me the whole thing for 411.00
I called Falconi's and they over nighted me what I needed for 91.00.


UPDATE 12/3/03
Just got my Haltech E6x Installed. It wasnt too bad for a first time. Took a while just need to
tune it.

Update on Sensors.. For the VSS. The main shaft uses a stock Accord sensor. For the counter shaft
try using one of a 98 civic. see what you get! we didnt want to let this info out earlier but I
am not sure if anyone will be doing this for a while so her you go.

God Dammit!! I'm not going to be the first? Is this is your car or in one of your friend's accords? No new sub frame or engine cradle had to replaced to accomodate the new trans? And you're using the accord center console? Also, why not just swap the whole CL-S ECU and wiring harness? Wouldn't that solve a lot of the solenoid issues and things?

Man, we got to get together on this thing. Hit me up on my aim, ijimufinei

1. This is from the Accord V6 guys at v6p.net
2. No the sub frame does not need to changed.
3. The accord guys can simply use an accord 4cyl man center console.
4. Not sure if this is doable, but if it is, it's what I plan to do if it's going to be a plausable option.
5. Swapping the ECU will solve the soleniod issues...

From one of your earlier posts, I just started calling salvage yards across the country and asking what they would want for everything that would be required. Most places asked me for a list of parts, then called me back. Some places offered much better prices then others, the best option for me was a place in Nebraska(since I live in CO), it is close enough that I could simply drive out and pick everything up, saving on shipping and making sure I get ALL of the parts I need.

I had an off a while back and found a wrecked CL-S six speed for 6K. Real bad driver side and rear damage. Front end was still intact and looked unscathed. Interior was also in pretty good condition. I was going to get this but didn't have money at the time. Now that I just got a new job, which is paying rather well, I am trying to see if I can still pick up the car and haggle with them a bit.

I tried calling salvage yards too but no one seems to be able to get this rare CL-S six speed swap. Where did you start calling around out and how did you even know which yards out of millions to call?

Here u go if you didn't have this website already. It may come in handy for some of the stuff.


http://www.car-part.com/


Good luck

This is the a great site for consumers, most shops have access to some type of parts locater service as well. If you look on car-part, just find someone who has the trans and call them to find out what kind of pricing they can get you on the rest of the goods.