This noise has been around on and off for some time now and I would like to eliminate it as it's quite embarrassing.

It's been gone all winter long when temps were cold, but it has returned with the warmer weather. It happens most often when turning the wheel to the right and usually only after the car warms up. I've been under the car while someone turned the steering wheel and you can feel the vibration the most through the tie rod end. The car has new upper control arms, lower ball joints, outer tie rod ends, and stabilizer bar links. The noise was there before any of those parts were replaced.

Is this the binding issue with the steering rack that I've read about?

 

Check the driveshaft's cv bearings. Also, make sure that the inner tie rod is tight.
It's apparently something unique to that side and hopefully not the rack, IMO.

 

There's no play in the front wheels when pulling on them when the front end is off the ground. I had an alignment done about 2K miles ago and the tech had no issues with setting it. I don't know if it's related, but during the really cold months, the steering was quite notchy until the car warmed up. It feels fine now in the warmer weather.

I don't hear any of the typical clicking noises that are associated with worn axles. None of the boots are split. I did not feel anything unusual in the CV joints when I was moving them around while removing and installing them during my AV6 swap. This noise was there before the trans swap. Is there another way to test the CV joints?

The car has 91K miles on it.

 

how is the fluid level in the PS res, have you tried flushing the PS fluid? Is the belt tight?

 

The belt is tight. The fluid was just a hair below the hot mark today with the engine idling at operating temperature, but it was acting like boiling water in that the top of the fluid wasn't smooth. I don't know if that's normal. I'm used to looking at black PS reservoirs on GM cars where you can't see what the fluid is doing while the engine is running. A PS flush is on the list of things to do this spring.

Otherwise, the PS pump is quiet with no leaks anywhere.

 

Just to clarify, that metallic popping/tapping sound in the video is from the brake dust shield transmitting the vibration / binding up that I felt through the tie rod end.

On other types of cars, a bad upper strut mount would also be one of the suspects, but since ours doesn't actually seem to pivot as you turn the steering wheel, unless I'm wrong, I don't think that it's a possible cause of this noise.

 

Read something about that, it mentioned to check the spindle for rust where it meets with the brake rotor hub surface and where the wheel and disc meet.
If all else checks out ok try this.

 

To update the thread, chances are very good that it was the new Moog lower ball joint that was making the noise since it completely failed on Saturday after 7K miles. Luckily, this happened in a parking lot and not while driving at any kind of speed. As a result, I now need to install a new axle and there's some damage to the fender from it landing on top of the tire as the ball joint popped out of its socket.

I will never buy another crucial Moog part, even if I have to pay more for other brands. This type of failure is unacceptable after 7K miles of driving and it could have been serious if I was at any kind of speed.

I changed to Moog upper control arms at the same time as the lower ball joints. The upper control arms went in the trash 2-3K miles ago because the bushings were binding and now this happens with the ball joint. Unbelievable!

 

Finally had a chance to take everything apart last night. Here's a pic of where the socket cracked allowing the ball with stud to come out and cause all the damage.



Isn't there supposed to be grease in these things? This ball joint doesn't have a drop of grease in it.

Needless to say, the lower ball joint on the other side is coming out as well because there's no way that I'm taking a chance with it. I bought a pair of AC Delco ball joints to replace these POS ones and hopefully they will be a lot more reliable.

 

Cant speak on that particular lower ball joint but when i installed my lower ball joints (MOOG) on my truck i had to grease them. Did you have to grease those after installing?

 

These are completely sealed units with no zerk fittings.

 

okay just checking. I know the FORD community loves the moog parts but hey you have two that went bad so i would definitely change

 

Well, one completely failed so far after only 7K miles and I'm not going to take a chance with the other one because it's too much of a risk to take.

 

I here you bro good luck and be safe!

 

Where did you get a Closed Unit? both models (Basic and Adjustable) have a Greasing Fitting for the TL in the MOOG Website Catalogue..


Had my Adjustables hit the upper Shock Tower too much and replaced them with the more basic ones (OEM Like) and indeed had the grease fitting.. This was almost 1 year ago on both of my UBJ.


Also by pure procedure all Ball Joints should be greased when Installed brand New! There is even a tag in the BJ saying so just to avoid a Dry BJ Installation and these problems as results.

 

These are lower ball joints. No grease fittings on them just like on the OEM ones.

 

I got mine from Napa and put them on my self, they dont have grease fittings either.
3 years now and no issues. I think Ac Delco should be ok.

To grease the Moog ones would you have to remove the axle ?

 

Ahh Sorry about that, I miss read... Yes indeed the Lowers aren't greaseable I have them too MOOG but I've got like almost 2 years now? and give or take 20K on them.


You should talk to a lawyer because 7K and that kind of fail? I think a Lawyer could do Wonders with Evidence like that..



Only way to Grease an un-greasable Ball Joint is with a Needle Injector from the Dust Cover, By design an Un-greasable ball joint doesn't even have a grease fitting so removing the axle wont help.. Needle Injector and BAMM! Problem Solved by just lifting the car.

 

There is no provision to lube it. No hole to put a fitting in. I used to like moog, but their metal on metal construction requires periodic lubrication. This happens pretty much never, at any place that SPECIALIZES in lubing and changing oil. Plus, depending on application, and particularly with imported cars, moog stuff is often reboxed chinese crap. For the money, I think oe is the best deal, and the safest bet for longevity.

 

This makes want to pump some grease into a sway bar link that I installed on an odyssey a few days ago, It was a Moog brand.

 

I still like their sway bar links, but you do have to grease them periodically. Not a problem for enthusiasts and d.i.y.ers, but forget it for the general motoring public.

 

Got Mevotech on my Sway Links, A lot stronger than OEM but Cheap $$, Very Cheap.! They are fairly easy to grease too with the fittings and the Link itself feels solid, I believe its a Plastic Cage inside not metal to metal so they should last a very long time... Got 1 year with them and 15K at least? Only problem I had its the Nut backing out one time causing a terrible clicking noise, Some Blue Threadlock and 2K not a problem since.

 

Well, I took apart the right side and sure enough, that ball joint is making some metal on metal sounds too, so I bet that if I cut the boot, I would find absolutely zero grease in there as well. This means that it was only a matter of time before this one went too.

I have their tie rods and sway bar end links too, but since those all have grease fittings and I always make sure that they're lubricated, I think that they'll be fine.

Clearly, the problem with the lower ball joint was that all the metal on metal contact eventually wore away enough metal to weaken it and that's why I am where I am with this.

 

Excellent info to be passing along. Everybody always trusted the "Moog" brand quality before.

 

I did as well for many years. Now, because of this incident, there will be no more safety critical Moog parts going on any of my cars. I keep thinking about what could have happened if I was doing 60 MPH on the highway instead of pulling out of a parking spot when the ball joint decided to let go.

 

^ Sue them.. I guarantee you a Lawyer would make a Field Day about this.

 

MBP 03, same exact thing happened to me when i installed 2 new MOOG lower ball joints on my 02 TL-S. Within 2 moths they started squeaking and creaking while turning and going over bumps at parking lot speeds. I got the car in the air, put a pry bar between the knuckle and lower control arm and found tons of play on both sides! If i drove any longer on them im sure it would pop out just like yours did, glad i changed them and not the only one with that same problem. I had used MOOG parts for years and never had such a bad experience

 

Moog apparently has started marketing a lower end "value" line of products to capitalize upon.

My understanding is that the parent co. ( Federal Mogul ) wants to capitalize on that market. From different sites, the "value" line carries a "R" suffix in the part #, while thier so called premium line has a "K" after part #.

Rather sneaky business to the unsuspecting. But, hey that's the way that the global business market works these days. Apparently they are willing to risk losing a few customers over the bottom line earnings.

 

Well, if their Problem Solver premium line has such poor quality and sealed ball joints come out of the factory with no grease in them and fail in a short time, I can't even imagine what the failure rate on their value line is like.

 

Did you open them up to see if there was grease in them?

 

Yeah i did and they barely had any grease, i think my OEM ball joints had more grease in them after 12 years and 150K. Also the MOOG part number did have a "K" in it

 

I don't know if this applies to anyone here, but it is really easy to grab the wrong receiver tube on a ball joint press, and put excessive force on the ball joint during installation. I've caught myself a couple times where the end cap on the ball joint got bent, and the joint was ruined. I can imagine a rookie or a flat rater not catching it. Or someone not wanting to admit it to the boss, but you can install them this way. The worst moog joint we warrantied still made it 19,000 miles, which is only one oil change and potential for lubrication according to some mfgrs. I.e. honda with 1 year, 10,000 miles, and an oil filter every 20,000.

 

Some DIY'ers occasionally will improvise methods for doing balljoints...... without a press. Sometimes resorting to heating, freezing, beating and using just about anything nearby to hammer or press with.

But, a quick question on Moogs or any "sealed" bottom LBJ, do ya just lube them with a needle or what ?

 

Doing it with a needle is about the only way.

Of course, when you buy brand new sealed ball joints, you expect them to be fully greased and ready to go, but that's another matter.

 

another example of humans interfering with robots
someone forgot to load the grease dispenser, and the robot dutifully assembled them anyway