awood

Now that I've replaced my window trim (again), and my 2nd transmission is still holding, I need to trade in the 2002TLS.

I want to stick with a 4 door sedan, but I'm leaning towards going with a rear wheel drive; either the Chrysler 300C (340HP) or the Lincoln LS (280HP).

I drove the 300C, and its quicker than the TLS in spite of being 700 pounds or so heavier. The inside is OK, but a tad inferior to the TLS. The NAV system is significantly inferior to the TLS, but a lot nicer than the Cadillac CTS NAV. (The CTS interior is so horrible, I'd hesitate getting the CTS-V even if it were $10K cheaper.)

I haven't driven the Lincoln LS since 2001 (then I went with the Acura). At that time, the Lincoln LS was only around 230HP and didn't offer a NAV system. At 280HP and NAV, it may be worth a second look. Has anyone drove this lately?

It seems the only other choices are Lexus and Infiniti. The local Lexus dealer treated me so rudely the last time I was there that I'll never buy a Lexus for as long as I live in Dallas, and the Inifiti G35 series never did much for me (plus I've heard the Infiniti NAV leaves a little to be desired).

I haven't totally ruled out the new TL, but I am so underwhelmed with Honda's lengendary quality on my 2002TLS, that I don't think I can bring myself to buy another one.

TeHeLeEsE

i have to admit the new 300's are nice, they remind me of gangster cars from the old mafia movies!
but just remember you are getting an american car AND a chrysler (reputed as teh worst build quality). i may sound biased but i have first hand experience, we had both a dodge caravan and a jeep grand cherokee (chrysler products) that broke down to the point that it was not worth keeping them after awhile. sweet ride tho, juss do ur research

fsttyms1

its still a chrystler wich i would never own!

elah

i'd say stay with tl... those hemis are nice but heavy... they like their gas too your gas bill is going to double if not triple. have you checked out the new maxima? lexus would be nice but thats out the the question maybe wait alittle for the 2005RL i dont know if you want to be a test dumbie for one of those. check out the maxima and the LS... its your money

Type S Lady

Both are crap cars to me, can't go American but if I had to I'd still take the Lincoln LS. That think just look so good and comes with the manual. My neighbor has one, I'd love to take it for a spin but I doubt that'll ever happen!

itloser

As said above I would stay away from Chrysler products. Especially 1st year cars. It's normal to have a lot of problems in the first year of release. Combine that with Chrysler's overall quality. I would hang onto your TL-S, if the 300C is what you really want, at least wait till next year's model so they get some of the kinks out.

goldendragon576

still a chrysler but with German engineering!
I'd consider the 300c, I really like the styling but I don't think for every day. I like the sportiness to my TL.

car_lost

the dodge magnum is pretty sweet looking.

hemants

One is nimble and the other is a boat. If you want a fast boat then go for it.

I spent half a day driving the 300M and it made me nausious...yuk. Fast but sluggish if you know what I mean.

MADCAT

What are you talking about? Chrysler products not only have problems in their first year, but alos into their final years...AL LA NEONs..... ...beside...looking at he 300C..looks like a senior citizen car....I see no youthful lines in that car like the new Caddys do.

bigman

the 300's are slowly jumping in the ranks with town cars and sevilles as taxis

2001TL4KCdude

They have worse than average relibility according to CR. They depreciate pretty fast too.

dj5

I will never own another Chrysler Jeep product. We had a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Nice looking vechile but drove terribly. Also had a lot of maintenance problems. At 70,000 it was giving us so many problems that we took it to CarMax to get rid of it.

Personally I would stay with any of the Japanesse car makers.

itloser

Well said. Caddy appears to be going down in their target market with the CTS Spec-V and the new Seville coming out. I would have to say the exact opposite for Chrysler, the new 300 just added quite a few years to the cars target audience. That is of course, unless you are a huge sopranos fan, and wish u were in the mob

itloser

Well said. Caddy appears to be going down in their target market with the CTS Spec-V and the new Seville coming out. I would have to say the exact opposite for Chrysler, the new 300 just added quite a few years to the cars target audience. That is of course, unless you are a huge sopranos fan, and wish u were in the mob

fast-tl

There are lots of Mercedes-sourced parts in the 300C. Also, even first year cars have warrantties, so you won't be stuck high and dry.

The power's hard to deny, adn the mags asay the handling isn't bad at all. I'd love to get back to rear wheel drive, as it should be.

jayhawk815

Please do some research before you make such claims. Gas bill double if not triple? Please, that's quite funny. The 300C has been rated at 17 mpg City, and 25 mpg Highway, not as good as the TL, but not THAT much worse. I personally like the look of the 300C. I'm just not sure if I'd buy one though. The 2005 RL does excite me some, can't wait to see the final product. If you can, wait till it's released and check it out.

Edward'TLS

The 280hp V8 Lincoln LS feels much faster and drives much better than the V6 because it has tons of low end torque. However, it is now a dated design compared to the 300C, CTS-V, and 2005 RL.

ABBOUSHI

Dont get a Chrysler, it says it has alot of Horsies but it doesn't perform like it does. and the Acura is much more reliable.

ajNYHC

The LS V8 is fast, but the interior blows. You'll see when you drive it.

1SICKLEX

Consdering the TL is made in America just like a Chrysler and has some of the worst reliability problems of any badged luxury car, you can't get on Chrysler for quality. THe TL is no better. The TL could be badged a Chrysler, hell they both were designed and built for the American market.

The 300C is a great car period. Starting at 24k to 38k loaded. The SRT-8 is coming too. The 300C ownsz the entry level luxury market right now. It is an incredible car for the money. It is going to steal ES 330, TL, G35, CTS, Lincoln LS sales.

fsttyms1

not very much of it. that and the reliability sucks on them even with "german" engineering

rasosi2000

I had a'99 300M. Beautiful w/lots of bells and whistles. But absolutely unreliable. Had it for 3 years (42K miles). In the first year, dealer had to keep it for 5 days, TWICE. Problem was something called the "body controller." It's a circuit board that has all of the electronic memories: seat, mirrors, climate control, radio presets, and ODOMETER. If the computer indicates a failure in the body controller, they remove it from the car, send it to the factory for repair, then ship it back. Car can't be operated until it's reinstalled. All 4 power windows failed. Transmission locked in 2nd. After 2 years, rattles developed.

Good luck.

MADCAT

I think the opposite will happen. The car is so ugly and un-youthful that it will be a failure like their new Pacifica...does anybody remember the Pacifica? It's been out less than a year, and it could be the worst selling car I have ever seen.

And the its been 2-3 months since the intro of the 300C...and in total I have seen 5 in the downtown Toronto area. Heck, I have seen more ugly 5 series than this car.

Crysler had a great cahnce to make a great sports sedan with Hemi power...yet they make this grandpa car...

awood

Wow. Thanks guys for all the good feedback.

I'll have to think about it. By the way, the RL and CTS-V are not in my price range. And as I said, I couldn't buy the CTS-V anyway - the CTS NAV is a joke, and if you're taller than 5'6" and ever sat in the CTS passenger seat ... no more need be said.

I like the TL-S, but I was really disappointed by the extra 10HP of the 2004 model. Also, on the way to work today I was beat by a car length against (get this) an Impala SS. That car is supposed to be over 7 sec 0-60. Maybe my TLS is out of tune, or maybe that Impala wasn't stock. Either way, its pretty depressing .

What really has me looking elsewhere though is the quality of the TLS (or rather lack of). The black stickers for window trim and lousy transmission is just too much. I've had the car a little over 3 years and have yet to go 12 months in a row without a major trip to the service center.

With all that said, I must say that the Acrua service is EXCELLENT. I just wish I didn't need to use it so often.

awood

Since I'm over 40, I can't judge the "youthfulness" of the TLS vs. the 300C. I do see where the comments are coming from however. The Chrysler does try to be more of an "RL" than a "TL".

Of course its will be pretty hard to laugh at the 300C when you're eating grampa's dust at the stoplight.

indoMFP

is it me or did chrysler try to make a car look like a bentley and fail? I wouldn't mind getting a Lincoln LS, built on the same platform as the Jaguar S-type....

1SICKLEX

Yes, I do think the 300C imitates a Bentley which is to Chrysler's advantage. Like the Nissan Altima and Maxima look like a knock-off Lexus GS. Or the Kia Sorento looking like a knock-off RX 300. Or the LS 430 looking like an old S-class.

People like things that look like more expensive things they would like to have.

neuronbob

awood: don't turn down the new TL out of hand. Despite what you might read in the 3G TL forum, the new TL is quite reliable. Yes, there are first year issues, but they are minor, and VINs are now reaching into the 55ks, so most of the early-adopter issues have been licked. I have a very early VIN car and the issues I've had are truly minor. For a FWD car, it handles very nicely, hopefully better once I get my A-spec suspension kit on.

I love the looks of the 300C, and the power. If I'd been in the market when it came out, I'd have certainly test-driven the Hemi model, the only one worth owning. I think the other 300Cs are underpowered for the amount of weight they have to move around. I have had personal experience with Chrysler quality. I owned a 2000 Dodge Intrepid three years ago, before my first TL. The tranny went at 625 miles. That's right, not 1625, not 16250, but 625. I almost made the dealer buy the car back but they put in a brand new tranny instead (not refurbished like they're doing with the 2G TL). Luckily, I had no other issues prior to trading up to a 2G TL at about 40000 miles. The fit and finish was nowhere near either of my TLs, though.

I hope this helps.

awood

Heck, I think the 300C looks better than the Bently!

Thanks for all the advice though. I've got more to think about now!

(These photos are links to www.edmunds.com)

Chrysler 300C


Bently

1SICKLEX

Wow, it does resemble a Bentley, that pic is very telling. This car is gonna sell like hotcakes.

2003 tl-s

I see a lot of new 300s, but none with the Hemi. That's the problem. You shell out $32K+ and everyone thinks you spent $22K. With the Lincoln you wouldn't have that problem. Of course, I would pass on both. There are much better choices in the $30-40K range.

jayhawk815

I don't understand why all the bashing of the 300C is going on. I have seen people say that it is underpowered, or that it's performance doesn't reflect it's claimed numbers. I think 0-60 in 5.3 seconds is VERY respectable, especially for a +4000 lb car. Someone said that it's going to bomb like the pacifica, well, the 300C is back ordered in most places. Most dealerships can't keep them on hand. The ones you do see are the V6 models. While IMO the interior is nice, you tell where they saved some money in some areas, as with the TL. These cars are a bargain for what you get. I also feel the same way about the TL.

My only concern is the build quality and reliability of the 300C, as others have mentioned. I've read in a number of periodicals that Chrysler has made great strides in improving these two areas. My parents are considering the 300C and therefore I was interested and did some research for myself. I've recommended other cars to them, but they are some of those old-school American cars only. Yes, I know that the 300C is really no more "American" than the TL. That and my Dad has had many bad experiences with Ford Mo. Co. and even stays away from Lincoln.

Oh well, just trying to shed some light.

fast-tl

Be aware that the Chrysler 300M and 300C are ***completely different*** vehicles. The 300M will NOT predict the future of the 300C. They don't even drive the wheels for God's sake, so why are they being compared to each other?
Also remember that the new 300 has been in development for quite a while, if you recall the HEMI-8 concept and 300C roadster concepts from years ago. Unfortunately, the 300C tops out at 38K, which is a little rich for my blood, given my blemished credit.

pistacio

iTrader: (1)

My opinion may be biased but, you would trade your tl-s for a Chrysler !? Especially the first year of a new model? It is a sharp looking car and may be loaded with goodies, but with Chryslers track record I would'nt recommend it. I guess you could call me a "hater".

jjlee

check XG350. I was surprised. Hyundai makes impressive car now with 20k+ price tag. Without Hyundai badge, this car worth it around 30k. Shouln't heart to test drive...

pistacio

iTrader: (1)

from a tl-s to a hyundai xg350?
I'm sorry,I'm really "hating" now.

jjlee

I was trying to emphase that Hyundai is better than Chrysler... +^

jayhawk815

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

DRDDA

I heared they using some bad ass engine which has lots problems.