mohater

Looks like the lip that holds one of the throttle cables in broke (no idea how this happened). Looks like the cable pops out at time and other times is held (hence the inconsistent misfiring when driving).

See pics for details:






Any idea how to jimmy rig this before I can fix it?

I noticed it this morning when I cleaned the EGR port and the intake ports.

01tl4tl

as long as the end is still there- simply rotate the throttle open at mechanism
that moves the hole on plate in easy access- insert cable back in from the side- only goes in from one side and good to go

lube spring assembly with deep creep or wd or silicone spray

one of those is direct to the gas pedal and the other goes to cruise control

ck the free play in cable after install- it should be a gentle thumb push down 1/4 inch-before it start to move the mechanism
dont want solid tight or it holds the air plate in TB slightly open and wont idle right- a little slack is what you want

If feeling skilled- mark location and remove the cable stay bolts-cable pulls back and free of mount- lift cable housing up and spray lube inside-work cable back and forth in housing to spread lube
can do by hand with rag around cable housing but I use a `motorcycle cable lube tool` 3 bucks at harbor freight (15 at honda bike dealer or shops) it clamps around case and has hole for wd type straw- no mess and full lube assured

Cables and springs should be cleaned and lubed every few years- especially cars from back east with that white crusty salt all over the parts
Thats part of the `inspect and lube` in the owner book that no shop ever does

Spray clean the TB air plate inside TB on both sides and edges (use throttle mechanism to open)- carb cleaner works- deep creep preferred as it leaves a lube in the pivot hinge.
that has an effect on idle too

phee

iTrader: (5)

that shouldnt cause a misfire. just a loss of power and or acceleration.

misfire is pro bably plugs or coilpacks

mohater

Well damn... I thought I had an "AH HA" moment today...

The car has new plugs. I spoke to a guy at autozone and he said I should see sparks in the dark (just the light) if a coil pack is bad...


I cleaned the TB, EGR valve, etc. all this morning. That's when I found the broken lip that holds the throttle cable in.

mohater

Well I jimmy rigged the throttle cable until I either come up with a final fix or replace that part.

Still misfiring.

New plugs, cleaned egr port and intake ports (were pretty gunked up), gonna do a seafoam treatment tomorrow.

Before I changed the plugs, I had 6 bosch plugs in (not sure how they got there). Back then it was throwing misfires in all cylinders and a random misfire code as well.

Replaced them and the car ran fine for a while, but now it is misfiring again. I'll get the codes read tomorrow and post again.

Thanks guys.

phee

iTrader: (5)

REPLACE THE COILPACKS!!!

its probably just one thats fucking up. easy way to test is to turn the car on and unplug one pack if the car starts sputtering them connect it again.

repeat this process for all 6 coil packs

when u disconnect one and the car doesnt seem to sputter like the rest, thats the bad coil pack

dudeinaTL

iTrader: (1)

Is it a steady misfire or intermittent?

When you replaced the plugs, how did the old ones look?

01tl4tl

they were bosch--not good in the TL system,,,will cause misfire..........
and many doubt why I am so against their use in the TL!

Acura says ngk or denso only- thats a pretty strong statement from them -
denso cost more and last fewer miles in ziner gen2 testing

ngk irids or iridium IX (allegedly racier)--are the right thing- for gen2 its an upgrade from platinum-roll with the flow of progress~

did you reset the ecu by pulling the `clock fuse` on passenger end dash after new plugs and other work?
when tracing a miss you MUST reset it each time you make a coil swap or other change, so the car runs a self test on startup and doesnt keep false codes

your Tech is incorrect- plug wires will arc in the dark- coils may if there is external case damage- otherwise its inside the electronics,,not normal car coils...of course- its the TL!!!!

when you did the egr port clean you removed the intake manifold to do it all?

a coil can be weak or damaged internally during last plug change from being set down hard or dropped--some months later and with the wrong plugs--onging issues
IMO buy 1 coil and do a manual change from plug to plug with ecu reset and see which one it is
Yes you can unplug them but still might not detect a failing coil as well as a new coil will.
If 1 old spark plug was very wet- that is your bad coil..no fire = leftover fuel

I try to seafoam on the old plugs when possible--only to keep the new ones spotless
BUT in this case just do an extra good blowout drive and they will stay shiny

old old messed up plugs with weak spark can load up with the loosened crud and need replacement
note: seafoam `liquifies` the carbon etc- not big chucks of crud flying around the piston chamber and valves! its liquid getting burned and blown out

01tl4tl

note for all- harbor freight tools will have its obd2 code scanner- the one that plugs in and reads live data as you drive for helping diagnosis, for 99 bucks!! (reg 200) on one of the sales this month and june
ck their website-circulars section for more details and exact dates

mohater

Thanks to all for the responses.

To 01tl4tl:
Yes, the misfire appears intermittent, and I have not reset the ECU once with the fuse removal. I'll try this tomorrow.

Yes, I followed the guide on removing the port, scraping the big crud out and hosting the thing down with carb cleaner to get the rest out. There is some improvement in sound and smoothness, but the misfire persists. I will do a seafoam treatment before work tomorrow, get the codes read at lunch and see if I can source a coil back locally (any preferred brand for coil packs?). The lip for the throttle cable is totally gone (there isn't anything left to hold it in). I rigged it with some zip ties (tight enough to hold cable in place, loose enough to give the cable slack to recoil and stretch).

The local advanced auto only had the iridum XI in stock, so I took 'em. There was an instant improvement when swapping them out, but the shuddering and jerking is still around (albeit less frequent).

01tl4tl

the IX are what most of us run..good for 50kmiles no sweat..whats thay 3-4 years for a lot of us,,a year for kris~

try the master reset and foam it- give it a good blow out drive after- heat and time are your friends adding foam and exhaust heat and pressure for after
PM me of you need extra instructions- make sure to use master vac port at TB

never seen a throttle mechanism break..the main part where the cable is supposed to go -the outer edge of assembly is missing so the cable end wont lock into place??
its missing you say?
Did you have the parts store guy look at it?
can you get a better pic of the missing part
Might have to search junkyards for just that bit off a dead TB

totaledTL

Do you have a link for this? I can't find it.

01tl4tl

harborfreight.com look in top left area for `retail flyers` box- click that - then open the memorial day sale, page 3 iirc lower left corner
print out coupon

mohater

My problem seems to mirror this thread:
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-problems-fixes-70/how-do-i-reset-ecu-i-just-changed-all-spark-plugs-747636/

I reset the ECU and went for a 15 min drive (just now), the problem returned near the end of the drive.

I'll buy a duralast coil pack (any duralast haters out there? Let me know if I should NOT buy the duralast coil pack) from autozone and try it in each position.

mohater

I'll try phee's idea first, I missted that post.

Thanks,

Sperry

iTrader: (1)

But there is a benefit to other members, in that
now some, like me, are aware of a "Lube cable" procedure.

What could be better than another reason to poke about under the hood.

01tl4tl

for those who cant find the throttle mechanism to lube it--remove the plastic engine cover~

01tl4tl

dont screw around with testing coils- you have at least 1 bad one
Buy 1 new coil- dura is fine, if you have the latest readout of what cyl it thinks are missing, try those to start, working your way thru- ecu reset each time

cyl numbering looking at engine from front bumper back -pass to driver side-
rear 123
front 456

mohater

How long does it take for the code to get thrown again after resetting the ECU?

01tl4tl

drive it 15 minutes, most things will show up within that time
A coil you should be able to tell by engine smoothness with all 6 firing

mohater

Drove the car today after resetting the ecu, no code yet. I'll go for a long drive tomorrow in the AM to see if it throws the code again. I grabbed a coil from autozone. It's still shuddering and jerking (a lot less, but still doing it) and a bit unsteady on idle @ lights (when it misfires).

Here's better pics of the throttle body (with my jimmy rig to keep the cable in place. You can see the plastic lip that's broken where the cable end is supposed to slide in with the opening for the cable.






Thanks again.

dudeinaTL

iTrader: (1)

Cruise control cable...

mohater

Ran a quick errand and put some gas in the car, threw a code (finally).

Detour to autozone and found out it was cylinder #4 (2 codes, #4 misfire and the generic dealer code).

Put the new coil in #4 and will go for a test drive tomorrow morning. I'll do the seafoam treatment assuming the test drive goes well.

01tl4tl

remember to reset ecu via the clock fuse before test drive

I have never seen a TB control break like that- the corrossion must be unreal or you are superman on the throttle + corrossion

mohater

I was really surprised by it as well...

It's plastic, so corrosion isn't really a factor here. Someone must have broke the lip during some type of service. I noticed it was broken when I first started breaking the top down to clean the EGR port and intake ports.

I'm guessing during a routine service of sorts, someone broke it and jimmy rigged it somehow.

I

mohater

Just got back from a 20 min test drive and I think it's fixed. How long would one wait after resetting the ECU to do a seafoam treatment?

No shuddering or jerking, and no pulling on misfire when stopped at lights.

I think this is the storyline:
Bosch plugs go in (no idea when)
Bad gas in the last few months, fouls spark plugs and throws codes in all 6 cylinders
Bad gas is slowly worked out of the system (Lucas, 93 octane gas, etc.)
Take car to dealer, by now car is jerking and shuddering much less as the crap has mostly been worked out
Dealer BSs me and says I need valve adj and new plugs.
I put in new plugs, still jerking and shuddering
Code pops up, only cylinder 4 throwing a code (my guess is if I would have gotten the codes read after the dealer reset the codes, there would have been one code only)
New coil pack and test drive seems promising.

Thanks again guys. I'm going to call the service manager at the dealer and tell him off.

phee

iTrader: (5)

dont tell the service manager off. tell him you diagnosed the problem at home and would like a free service for your time (that they wasted)

be polite and courteous, you never know when u might need a trans

mohater

Thanks for this. This explains why the cable didn't really affect anything (rarely used cruise).

You're right, but customer service at this (Honda) dealer is ZERO. The paint started to bubble on my accord trunk lid, I took it in to show them this is a mfg defect and to ask Honda USA to cover it. The manager at the body shop said "what probably happened is a rock hit it and caused a pinhole where it began to bubble out". I thought "wtf, how does a rock fly up on the trunk lid? Was I driving in reverse going 60?" Had a couple bad experiences with the service dept as well.

mohater

I should add, on the trunk lid under the emblem, not on the top or some place where a rock could land...

01tl4tl

you dont know its fixed---
and the SM was given a correct initial diagnosis by the tech- which is all they have to go on when they speak with you- `fix this and we will see what else is wrong` but the basics like plugs have to be good

It DID need spark plugs- wrong brand installed and you know they looked bad too
How many miles now? while the book says wait till 105 to adjust the valves- after 60 wont hurt if you drive it hard, or as in your case- unknown car history and already found wrong parts... like a speediplace had done a 69$ `tune up` on it before sale- not a car that was well cared for in most cases
Tech may have dropped a coil or 2 then- just setting it down hard will do it.
then it takes a dump 6 months later on you

Lucas helps in large and ongoing doses- but is no match for seafoam, and I love lucas..just know of something better for the money,
2 botttles of lucas dont equal 1 seafoam in what all it will clean for you

fsttyms1

Actually there have been quite a few. Recently a member had the problem and told how he fixed it, there is a thread about it somewhere

mohater

Sorry, I should have given more context here:

Car was purchased in early 2007, purchased for my little sister. My sister's idea of taking care of a car is putting gas in it (end).

A few months ago, it went from no codes to misfire in all six cylinders and the generic dealer codes. I was fairly certain it was bad gas. Insurance co said the car was still running (albeit crappy) and considered this maintenance, not bad gas. After a many tanks and some lucas, it was better, but still crappy.

Take the car to the dealer, I tell the dealer it went from no misfires to misfires in all six. Dealer takes the car, comes back and says "misfires in all six, you need new spark plugs". Dealer clears the code.

Mind you, after running 93 octane through a few times with some lucas, the car DID improve. The bosch plugs were fairly dirty, but the ends still looked good. Since I couldn't identify any records of someone in my family changing the plugs, I assume the plugs were there when we got the car (purchased with <90k on it).

You're right, I don't know it's fixed, but it's been over 50 miles since I put the new coil on and no shudder or jerking. My guess is had the dealer read the code after clearing them and driving the car for a bit (I never cleared the codes after finding out it was coding misfires in all 6) it would only have thrown cylinder 4. It was MUCH better after a few tanks of gas + lucas.

mohater

Thanks, I'll look for this thread.

Before I forget...

many thanks to 01tl4tl and phee. I'm very happy I've been able to (hopefully) resolve this issue.

mohater

Found the thread in case anyone else is looking.

Few words to help searching:

throttle body cruise broken plastic cable tb

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-problems-fixes-117/no-cruise-control-738998/

phee

iTrader: (5)

mohater. changing the plugs was probably the best thing you could have done. im sure your sisters gas was always low grade

dudeinaTL

iTrader: (1)

Yup, and it's just the cruise control plate (which you can see in mohater's pic is just plastic). Accelerator pedal "plate" is metal.

FWIW, my cruise control cable would sometimes pop out (with no broken plastic). Once my cruise control actuator died (related?), I replaced it & made sure the cable was in-spec. Haven't had a problem since.

01tl4tl

Bosch plugs--- ugh---dont care how they looked- totally wrong plug for the TL ignition system
just because someone somewhere did a cross referance of plug length and heat range- added any plugs that match to the parts store computer so they can sell you whatever they have....does not mean its the right part for the car

Denso or NGK- says so right on the plate under hood
of course the gas cap says 91 octane min. but that doesnt stop anyone....

lucas is good stuff at max dose, not a bottle to 25 gallons~ a bottle to half tank