http://www.forbes.com/2001/07/20/0723feat.html

 

Anyone notice that they didn't even mention the Type-S eventhough most of the pictures are that of a Type-S? You would never find that in Edmunds or C&D.

 

The magazine even uses the old style TL picture. What can we except, it is a financial magazine.

 

I've just written a complain letter to that guy...

here's what I wrote to him

/To Mr. Michal Frank.
/
/a few things you've failed to mention on the article on TL
/
/first of all, the picture on the article (red TL), is an old version
/that was replaced in March.
/
/What happen to the TL Type S? which has 260 hp.
/
/"exterior was its one weak point" The new TL with OEM kit is
/one of the most aggressive in any stock car (please see
/attachment)
/
/Acura is considering a 6 speed manual.
/
/oh, and the standard list is missing Leather power adjustable
/seats, park assistant right rear view mirror, fog light, moonroof
/and memory seats and a whole lot more.
/
/all in all I just want to point out the lack of information you've
/provided in the article which does not justify an Acura TL.
/

 

That's why the article is published in a financial magazine. It will look very bad in a car magazine 'cause the guy doesn't really know the TL well.

 

I wrote that Pu&k an email (aboved) and take a look at this response...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Frank" <mfrank@forbes.net>
To: <---------------------->
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: To Michael Frank


> You're right about the Type S. We didn't include this because it adds
> considerable cost to the package, and we were focusing the article on what
> the major consulting groups had studied (re what made the car a smart buy
> among owners). They didn't study the Type S, unfortunately. However, I think
> you're right that we should have at least mentioned it. The matter of the
> exterior, however, is not just our opinion, but the opinion of TL owners
> surveyed. Who better to judge a car than its owners? It may be your opinion
> that it looks fantastic, which is great, but we can only judge what a
> consensus of owners believes. As for the standard list of features, we
> simply included SOME of them. We didn't think it would serve the reader to
> list fifty things that come standard -- eyes tend to glaze over after a
> while, and the idea was to list the things that aren't stock on the
> competition (leather is standard on the ES, for example). We're sorry that
> you found the article disappointing. All in all, we felt it was fair,
> balanced, and presented a reasonable representation of what the TL offers
> and what it's up against. By the way, we've just checked out the new ES and
> will cover it soon. I think you'll find our comments quite interesting.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Frank
> Forbes.com
>
>

 

Sent in the following letter to the magazine. We'll see if it gets any response
Its apparent that your magazine's journalist are best suited for the financial articles for which your reputation was built. As to reviewing automobiles, they and your editing crew are out of touch. The Acura TL photos were inconsistent, starting with last year's model and then using the Type S model (260hp) that was not even mentioned in the article. Go take a look at Edmund's car site. They just finished a comprehensive review of the entire entry luxury market. Even they were surprised when the Acura TL-Type S won, beating the highly praised BWM new 330 series. I would suggest that you stick to your forte or spend a little more time on research and editing.

 

External styling is a personal preference. The TL looks better than the ES300 or I30 IMHO but not as nice as the Mazda Millenia and definately not up to par with Audi, BMW, or Mercedes the last of which, I think has the nicest lines in the Auto industry (C-class that is).

I also think Acura screwed up on the body kit as the front spoiler flares out too much and doesn't look natural; makes the car look "home boy drug dealer" ish. (also IMHO).

Look at the lines of an AMG mercedes, the spoilers look like part of the car not an add on.

 

Hey folkes, I read the Forbes review. It did seem a little bias towards the BMW and other competitors. However, the report was fair. The lack of downshift on the SS is a fact and it does suck. The situation they discribed, happened to me. I was in fifth, and tried to accelerate to move out of one lane and the car did nothing. I had forgotten to downshift. While this is probably my fault for not remembering and not being too manaul savy, this downshift function should have been added. The thing about people buying TLs for value. That is true. I would have purchsed a 330 BMW myself, if the TLS wasn't such a great buy. I like my TLS a lot and have fun driving it, but I have already experienced the effects of American Craftsmanship because I had to take my car to the shop several times already. I don't like that sh1t.

Because I owned a Honda Accord prior to this car and the only thing I had a problem with was the muffler after ffive years (91 accord). And it only cost me $150 to replace (that's all I spent in 5 years). We like our cars and they are simple better valued. However, I think we would be a lot happier with a 330 with comparable amenities at the same price. Lets get real people and accept reality. Plus the 330 looks 10 times better. I think that's the best looking car in the plannet, and the ladies get wet over it. The ladies like my TLS and the navi, but I live in NYC, and I don't get that many looks. I feel that it's almost like the looks you get for having a new car, not a super bad ass car. My friend has a 323 that he bought a few years ago. We exchanged cars for a day to check out how we liked the cars, and I felt even with his little 4 cilinder and less power and ammenities, that I could get any chick I wanted on the street. That's how that car made me feel. It was lacking in a lot of areas and it was pretty pplain in the interior, but the feeling you get counts for a lot too. The Acura falls a little short of that. And that has to do with the reputation of BMWs, the fact that they cost more and the fact that they look damn great. Can't battle with that. All in all, I agree with Forbes like 90%. Sorry folks, but lets get real.

 

I agree with you Big Ped. The 330 is an overall nicer car. However, as we have all stated, the TL-S is the best bang for the buck on the market in it's class. We all have our reasons for the purchase we made. I could give a sh1t if Forbes does'nt proclaim the TL-S God's gift to the automotive world. What's important is that I love cruising down the road with the confidence that I can dust just about anything I see (within reason of course).

Besides, an understated appearence that hides under-anticipated performance has it's own attractiveness.

See you ES's, MB 320's, and BMW 330's on the road!

 

Hey jjctls, I agree with you as well. And it is true that we can dust almost everything we see on the road. Definitely the best value in the market. And it was all I was willing to pay for it. But we cant trash Forbes for not praising the TLS, because there are many things that are taken ijnto consideration. In some areas the TL just falls short of the competition, such as looks, and respect and reliability. TLs won't get any respect until Acura has them made overseas and makes them more reliable even if it costs more. That American made part sucks. I will never buy american again. I had 4 other american cars before I bought the Honda and the TLS and they all had serious reliability problems. I Feel like I may be xperiencing dejavu now with my TLS. No big deal, just little things.

I have seen many threds where TL owners are discussing a bunch of little problems withtheir TLs. To me thatis "wack." If you are going to compete in the near luxury market, you gotta make solid cars. Leave little problems to the Civics on lower class models. If you want to be respected by the industry and the media, you can't have rattles, transmission problems etc.. In order to make the cars cheap, thats what Acura has to do and I understand them from a business perspective. But don't blame Forbes for exposing the reality or not praising them. TLs are what they are and that's why they cost what they cost. BMs, and Mercedes, for example are German cars with German engineering, and even though they cost more, their cost is substatiated to a certain extent. And a lot of people are paying the premium, just to be associated with that type of quality. Immage counts a lot and that is one great weekness the Acura brand has with respect to the TLs. I still love my car, but I take it for what its worth and don't try to make it anything greater. Can't get anything better for the money. If I had more money I would have definitely gotten the 330. No doubt.

 

Well, they didn't test a Type-S, they tested a premium. Those pictures were not taken by Forbes, they were supplied courtesy Acura.

 

yeah I agree, that's the 10% I disagree with on the report. Since they are bias, they didn't want to talk about the Type S because it would undermine their argument a bit.

 

No trash of Forbes intended. I have no problem with their review (or rather that it just doesn't matter to me), but I do think they should have been more thorough & corrected inaccuracies (in all a little spotty).

All cars offer something to their buyers be it cost, performance, status, etc., and everyone buys the car they buy for specific reasons.

If I had wanted to spend another 10k, I'd have bought an S4.

 

jjctls, I just looked at the S4 details on Edmunds. That car is sweet man, looks great and it has serious performace capabilities. You and I should've chipped in for it. I only need it on the weekends.

 

I think the only advantage BMW has overall with their cars only last about 5 years. Once you own a BMW for more than that, let the electronics problems and glitches begin! Trust me, I know.. My parents '96 740 starts every time, and guess what? Upon start up every time there's a message telling you something else isn't working, when it is working! That's a BMW for you.
Ed

 

I just wrote a letter to them... it goes something like this...Wadya think?

Michael,

That was a very interesting article that you had written on the Acura TL. I think that you didn't quite do all your homework though. Your main picture is showing pre '01 model (the red TL) and the rest of the pictures are showing an '02 model; The TL Type S. You also noted the 225 HP engine in the base TL, but are referring to pictures of the Type S model with 260 HP. An average driver wouldn't notice these flaws, but when you're talking about avid enthusiasts, details count.
For some reason or another, there is something going on what's called "BMW Envy". Owning both the TL and a more upscale BMW 740il, I can only say this. BMW's are a pleasure to own, for 5 years. That's it. 5 years. Why do you ask? For some reason BMW still hasn't gotten it right. All BMW models suffer from electronics glitches once the car turns the young age of 4 years old, and it just progresses to get worse. The 740 has started with it's problems, displaying error messages every time the car starts up when in fact, there's nothing wrong with the car. To makes things worse, take the car to a dealer and they can't figure out what's wrong with it. The other problem the 740 is plagued with and is starting to happen, is the rear of the car to appear to "sag", and that's exactly what's starting to happen. There is no reason for it to happen, yet it's happening. Somebody explain to me why?
I've owned a Honda Accord for 10 years. One of the best car's I ever owned. I only sold it because I needed a bigger car. Never had a problem with it, completely trouble free. Whoever we sold it to 4 years ago is still driving it too, as we see it on the road every so often (I had that car long enough to spot it).
There's a reason as to why Honda is one of the best selling cars. Michael, have you ever purchased a BMW? have you seen how many options you can have at an extra cost? A BMW is not a BMW if it isn't fully loaded, and fully loaded costs money. A LOT of money. The Germans are the only one's who still offer "Leatherette" for their seating surfaces. How many options are there for the TL? One. that's it. Just one. Where are the other options? there are no other because everything's STANDARD! One of the main reasons I shy away from an American car is because the buying experience isn't as easy as it is for a Japanese product. If you want Option A, you need to have Option C with it, but you can't get option B, If you want Option B, you have to get Option D. It's a pain. That's why the TL and other Honda products are such best sellers. It's a simple car to own, a simple car to buy, a very reliable car to have. My TL may not be perfect, But I can see myself owning it trouble free for a LOT longer than the BMW (in which incidentally we're replacing it soon with a Japanese upscale car, i.e., Lexus, Infiniti or Acura).
Regards,
Eddie Shacalo

 

Interesting article...I'm thinking maybe they didn't test out the TypeS cuz the TLP outsells it? Who knows what their reasoning was.

Ed, I agree and disagree with you bro. There are plenty of BMW's that have electrical problems, but plenty that don't. I'm hoping like hell mine falls in the "that don't" category after 5 years. I read that the 7 series were the most problem prone. The new 3 Series, I think that BMW has done a great job, but who knows, it's still only 2 years old. BTW, have you seen the new 7 Series? Drool, drool...
Anyone seen the new ES300? I haven't yet, but I have no doubt that Lexus will pleasently surprise me as they always do with new model releases.

It's nice to know that there are so many people loyal to the Honda/Acura brand. I feel that I am as well, but it's tough to be one sided as I own 2 different brands I guess. I love both cars, and my wife won't let me get rid of the TL just quite yet so I sense that she likes the car a bit more than what I thought.

 

BMW, is also having lots of minor problems with the x5 (assembled in USA) A friend of mine bought one in May and its been in the shop as much as its been out. Just small things but every part "is on national back order" I bought my TL-S in June and my friend and I both agree, although my car cost much less the buying experience was much more enjoyable. BMW didnt even do a follow up call after his purchase, I was called several times before they reached me and sent all the customer satisfaction surveys. Im not trying to knock BMW but for the $$ there cars should be much more reliable, and even Saturn has a better customer service. I mean how much is that little German emblem worth!

 

I don't see anything wrong with the article.

 

AC I've actually asked him why he didn't mention the Type S...and in his reply (which I've posted above), he said "it adds considerable cost to the car"?!?!

BLUBYU You're right, there's nothing wrong with the article except the way he screwed up on the photos and his opinion about the car is obviously a bias one.

All in all we just want him to admit he is stupid and wrong and etc.

 

What I think?
I think Acura is great product. It is one of the first near luxury car to introduces the navigation system and maybe the best navigation system(not quiet but still offers). He's thoughts were based on German cars are better with navigation system and he is telling that Acura TL is not luxury enough to compare with BMW 3series. I don't think BMW 3series is not luxury for many people, I'm sure he does not know what is luxury. Well, let's talk about BMW 3 series, engines were louder than our TLs, inside is just plain leather, cost for wood trim, and TL is semi wood trim, HID is options, TL comes with it, navigation is the last option we have, i'm not even sure BMW comes with that option. When i bought my TLS NAV it was just one package.


Written by Frank
Finally, if you get the only option on this car, the $2,000 navigation system, you're stuck controlling the climate via a touchscreen. That's a two-step process, which means first selecting the climate screen and then making necessary adjustments. Such fiddling takes your eyes off the road, which is unsafe and unnecessary. Note to Acura: Don't go following BMW, Audi and Mercedes on overly complex instrument panels. Keep it simple.


What I think?
It does automatically downshifts. But its not manually can downshift because Acura setup the grade logic. Average consumers are 50s?? I'm not even sure about it. Since I'm 23.
He states that TLS is an ugly car to own compare to infinity, lexus, bmw, and audi. States that its not expensive because TLS has unattractive face.


Mr. Frank
What's the use of an automatic if it won't downshift automatically? We realize Acura thinks it's offering enthusiasts an option, but according to J.D. Power, the average buyer of this car is over 50 years old. The average 3 Series buyer is only 40. What does that mean? Generally speaking, it means that enthusiasts are buying BMWs, where they can get real manual transmissions--the Acura isn't even available with one.


I kinda disagreed with Mr. Frank...... We need to solve he's problem with unattractive TLs'. But it is #2 in US for its class..

bye