Chas2

Much like RL06tech, I took the opportunity to de-PAX my 2006 Acura RL with Tech Package (ACC/CMBS/PAX). I was able to fit some BBS RE's with 255/40-19 Yokohama Advan S4's to the car. The wheel tire combination weighs 52 pounds vs 75 pounds for the PAX wheel tire combination.

It may be my imagination, but the car felt like it accelerated better, and felt lighter on its feet. I expected there would be a handling difference, but I did not expect the acceleration difference. Upon reflection, it may be that removing almost 100 pounds of unsprung weight is the difference, or it may be I just felt so great having this new combination on the car.

The ride is a little firmer, you can feel the road more in the steering wheel and in your seat. My wife may complain. It does seem to corner better, but I have not really been able to try it out yet.

I did not get a picture of it, but I did notice a couple of things about the PAX tires. It looked as if the inside rim was definitely larger than the outside rim. In fact, the inside rim looked like it was closer to 19 inches vs the 18 inch (460 mm actually) outside rim. There was a pronounced sloping shoulder to the inside sidewall of the PAX tire. That is the outside sidewall looks like a pretty normal tire, but the inside sidewall has a pronounced slope to it from the tread to the outer rim. It made the PAX tire almost look as if it was on too wide a rim, but on the inside only; or put another way, it looked as if the tread section was too narrow for the selected wheel.

The BBS RE are 19x8.5 with a 48 mm offset and 64.1 mm bore. No centering rings needed on these. They are pretty light for their size, running about 22 pounds according to the Tire Rack. No clearance issues with the large brake calipper up front, and the TPMS fits perfectly. In fact, the valve stems are easier to access than the stock 5 spoker.

The weight difference is most apparent when changing the wheels.

I have attached a few pics to give some context.



First wheel goes on, PAX is on the rear.


PAX 460mm with Michelin 245-680R460A Pilot HX MXM4 vs BBS 19" with 255/40-19 Yokohama Advan S4


All BBS mounted.

Jackzilla

Chas2, how many miles did you have on the PAX tires? Were they worn out or how much milage do you estimate remained? Also, what do you plan to do with them, if they're not worn out -- hang on to them or try to sell them? Any issues with the TPMS transmitters registering with the MID/PAX display?

I have a set of (virtually new take-off) OEM RL wheels and tires that I plan on installing next rotation and am curious if there were any issues.

neuronbob

I'm so glad you finally made your move, Chas!

Looking good! Since we're not sure whether putting on the A-Spec suspension will be possible, buying 19's is the next best thing to fill out those wheel wells.

Chas2

The PAX are not worn out at all. They have 23 or 24K and look like they could last for at least another 20. And this even after doing the BMW highway safety school at Summit Point Raceway.

I just happened to come across an opportunity to buy these wheels and tires from another Acurazine member, so I took that opportunity. These were far more expensive used than I was ever prepared to pay, but these forged wheels are in beautiful condition and so light, and the tires had only 5K miles on them, so I bit the bullet.

I have no idea what I am going to do with the PAX. I guess I should run them down to 3/32 since I paid for them. I just had to try these 19's with the Yokos on to see how they worked. I may never be able to go back.

On first starting out, the MID showed the TPMS function was normal, but each wheel position showed two dashes -- for the pressure. After driving for about 1.5 miles, the pressures registered and stabilized to within a pound of what I filled them up to, and the pressures climbed as expected as I took the car out on a brief highway run hitting about 80 at one point. Perfectly balanced, no vibrations. Rock solid feeling.

You should not have any problems with the TPMS registering after a couple of miles. This is another sweet thing about this car. No reset, or reprogramming needed for the TPMS. It shows you pressures at all four corners and is not a dumbed down version that just lets you know if you have a problem, but not which wheel it is.

As I have said before, I have no problem with the PAX tires. It is just when I do have to replace them, today's cost is $2100 just for new tires. In another year, who knows how much higher it will be.

If you are considering changing, I would look into 18's because you have so much more choice in tires. With the 19's you are very limited in sizes, perhaps about as bad as the stock 17's. And going to the slightly larger 255/40-19s, you don't have that much choice either, though more than the 17's. In 18, everything is also less costly. That is the direction I was headed until I happened to come across these wheels and tires.

Chas2

Thanks bob!

SpicyMikey

I may be right behind you Chas. Did you do anything about the spare tire or decide to just ignore it? If you're in a metro area it probably doesn't really matter. Who's going to sit on the side of the highway and change a tire these days? That's what cell phones and tow trucks are for

Chas2

Yes you are right about the metro area except I sometimes have to travel in the wilds of Virginia or Maryland.

I did get a spare, though all the parts are not here yet. The spare wheel and tire is damn expensive, over $550 at "internet" discount prices. The tire is very difficult to find. Except for a kind soul at the Tire Rack who sold it to me from his wholesale division, I would be out of luck. Every other person I tried at the Rack said sorry, can't sell it or don't have it. Same at Discount Tire and every local place I tried. Go to the dealer they said, where you only get the wheel tire combo for over $750.

It would have been more economical to a junkyard, but I did not have the time, and those phone calls and emails from the junkyards were chilling enough I did not want to mess with it. It was almost like answering one of those emails from Africa where your long lost relative left you millions if you would only give me your personal information so we can transfer the money.

SpicyMikey

Thanks for the insight. I'll stay away from the Junk Yards

Sometimes I go between Miami and Orlando or Atlanta and Orlando. There can be some long open space on those rides. But for $750 I mighth as well just buy another tire/wheel and throw it in the trunk when I'm heading out. That is indeed a crazy price.

Anyone else find a better connection for spares?

Jackzilla

Spicy, check out www.lkqonline.com, it's a huge auto salvage operation -- very professional and easy to deal with. I managed to buy an RL mini-spare and tool insert from them on E-bay about a year ago, before they apparently knew the high dealer cost for these parts -- paid only $75 for both parts, plus shipping of course which was about $35.

They now want around $200 for the mini when they have it. Not inexpensive, but is sure beats $750. Unfortunately, because of the SH-AWD this is the only mini-spare that's useable because it's the same full rolling circumferance as the standard tire/wheel -- just a lot thinner with a very lightweight aluminum disk.

A nicely made piece, as it should be for the list price. Weighs about 32 Lbs. total.

Jackzilla

Spicy, as an addendum to my previous post, most auto salvage yards are linked to a huge nationwide network. If they don't have a part they can do a search nationwide and usually find what you need -- frequently from multiple sources at a range of prices. All you need to do is go to a local yard, let them kinow what you need and how much you want to pay. They'll do the search and keep it open, if there's nothing available immediately, until the part turns up. $200 seems to be the price for RL wheels and mini spares, but perhaps you can do better -- there are no set prices in the auto salvage business, they're real dealers, so usually you can negotiate a good price with a little haggling.

neuronbob

$750 for a new spare tire/wheel? That is some BS right there.

RL06tech

Looks darn good, but I'm worried that your overall diameter increased sinificantly too (or did it?) If it did, you will have to reprogram your new diameter into the computer so your adaptive cruise and speedometer are correct.
I'm pretty impressed with the advan s4 performance how about you? BTW I did get the spare from a jukyard through the dealer. Its a pretty darned sophisticated rim for a spare and, to my surprise, its painted orange! Question to owners of non PAX RL's is your spare the same as this one???? or did I get an european spare??????

DoctorTuna

There is not a significant difference in tire diameter, stock is 26.7" as is 245/40/19. The 255/40/19 has a 27.0" diameter which is acceptable and makes very little difference, 1.2% difference, when speedometer reads 60mph, you'll be travelling 60.7mph.

Another word of advice, if you had to change from the stock lugnuts to conical then the lugwrench that comes with the stock spare tire will not fit your new lugnuts. You may also want to keep a set of the stock lugnuts for the spare as well.

There is no question you lower unsprung weight with the new wheel/tire setup but unfortunately this will be offset with the total weight that is increased with having to put a spare wheel/tire and tools in the trunk which is absent in the pax setup. All in all, I would never put stock wheels and tires back on an RL once you see and drive on a 19" wheel tire upgrade!! Nice job!!

kmcheney

While I'm not disputing the fact that you have to add a spare tire and the screw to hold it down, my 2006 RL with PAX still came with the "tools" to remove the tires. Even though it's PAX you still have a jack, wrench, tow hook etc. in the trunk just like a non-PAX configured RL.

DoctorTuna

I did not know that... my RL was non-Pax but my Honda Odyssey is and I didn't think we had the jack, wrench etc. I guess I never had a reason to look for it!! I might have to check that out when I go home.....

Chas2

Absolutely correct. The spare with tire weighs 32 pounds. The bolt and plastic retainer weigh less than a pound. The tools are the same, the styrofoam insert actually weighs less because it is much smaller only fits inside the 17" rim, and does not fill out the entire well as the PAX equipped insert, though the difference is less than a pound.

So in all, 92 lbs of unsprung weight lost by changing PAX to my particular configuration (all verified by digital scale) and about 33 lbs of sprung weight added to the trunk after all is said and done.

Chas2

Dr. Tuna's figures are pretty much what I came up with, so the difference is acceptable. My spare is painted a bright chrome yellow, and it is a very nice piece.

The Advan S4's perform very nicely, and the lighter wheel package makes the car feel much quicker. Then engine accelerates much more quickly than before. I am convinced that it is not psychological, if for no other reason than my usual throttle patterns are making the car jump ahead, and I have had to modify ever so slightly, using less gas.

What tire pressure are you running? Still 32 and 30 F/R? I am experimenting with higher pressures now.

I also have had a chance to sit in the back seat on 25 minute ride and noticed a very slight "nervousness" in the ride I did not have before, that is apparent in the back seat, but not from the front. This must be the difference in rear shock calibration for the PAX. While I noticed it, my wife has not yet noticed it when she sits in the back, or at least not said anything.

I would love to bring this car to the track again to see if there is any difference.