map0824

I have an 07 RL with the PAX tires and I want to know what is different about the car compared to a standard RL. Acura acts as if the PAX tires make the car a completly different model. No one will say why the car is different. What will it take to take these PAX wheels off of the car and replace them with either standard RL wheels and tires or aftermarket wheels and tires. I got a quote of $1,800.00 to replace the tires. That is crazy. There has got to be a better way. Does anyone know how many RL's were made with the PAX system?

dwboston

It's hard to quantify the number of cars with the PAX system. The PAX tires are only on the highest trim level of the 06, 07, and 08 RL - the one with the Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) and Collision Mitigation Braking System (CMBS). The tires are very expensive to replace since it requires special equipment to mount the PAX tires. Michelin has stopped development of the PAX technology due to low acceptance/adoption by tire dealers. Basically in the U.S., the tires are only on the Honda Odyssey Touring, the RL, and maybe one other car. The tires were the subject of a recently settled class action suit over premature wear (on the Odyssey tires) and exorbitant replacement cost.

You can absolutely replace the PAX system with new wheels and tires. Acura has implied in the past that doing so would invalidate the warranty, but as part of the suit settlement Acura cannot take that stance. You will need to replace the wheels and tires since the PAX wheels cannot use standard tires. You will also need Acura tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS) sensors for the new wheels. You will also likely need to get a spare tire and insert for the trunk since the PAX-equipped RL's did not come with one.

The PAX-equipped RL's apparently have a slightly different rear suspension than the other RL's, likely because the PAX wheels are heavier than the regular versions. Acura won't officially allow the A-spec suspension to be installed on a PAX-equipped RL.

Check out the PAX threads in the tire forum here - especially the recent one about the PAX settlement. It basically amounts to a warranty extension with pro-rated replacement costs and a partial rebate on a spare tire kit.

neuronbob

dw gave the right answer, so I will just welcome you to AZ!

Jackzilla

Just to expand a little on what DW said; the only actual suspension differene between standard and PAX equipped RLs is the rear shocks and springs. There are different part numbers for these items on PAX cars -- apparently because of the added unsprung weight of the PAX wheel assemblies, which weigh approx. 20 Lbs more per wheel than the standard wheel/tire combination.

I have retrofitted my formerly PAX equipped RL with standard RL wheel assemblies (purchased on E-bay from an Acura dealer) and can detect virtually no difference in ride quality on most road surfaces -- if there is a difference it is actually in favor of a slightly smooter ride compared to the PAX tires, though others on this forum might differ with me on this. Perhaps the take-offs I got just happen to be better balnced than the PAX tires. In any case, only over severe road irregularities can I notice any difference -- just slightly a stiffer response from the rear suspension -- and nothing to really make me want to go to the trouble of retrofitting new shocks and springs which at first I thought might be needed.

As far as cost goes, take-offs on E-bay can often be found for around $800 for a complete set (mounted, balanced and including tire pressure sesors and center wheel caps) -- about 1/3 the cost of a replacement set of PAX tires. An RL compact spare and tool set can be purchased from an auto salvage yard for a fraction of the $500 or so that Acura charges for them -- mine cost me a total of $125 including shipping.

Now, if there was just some market for my PAX assemblies (virtually like new with 8000mi.) the changeover would be virtually a wash. Don't I wish.

Chas2

Technically, at least for the 2006, the only difference in part numbers is the dampers, not the springs. This is based on original research that I went through with the Pohanka Acura parts department.

Also of mild interest, I believe the reason they will not install A-Spec on PAX equipped cars is not because of the PAX, but because of the CMBS. The change in ride height probably affects the radar pointing. There are so few CMBS equipped cars, you wonder who really knows how to work on them and readjust the radar to spec once you lower the car, even by .75" that the A-Spec does.

pickncrew

Jackzilla - why didn't you at least run the PAX tires until they were shot instead of 8k miles? just curious...

bnl107

For what its worth, I like my PAX tires. The ride is great, they are very quiet, the added safety is nice, and they've worn very well with regular tire rotations. I just wish they had caught on as planned, so they wouldn't be so difficult and expensive to replace.

Jackzilla

When traveling on the road it became too much of a hassle researching where there were PAX tire centers that could service the tires if ever there was a problem. Turned out that for some of our travels the 125 mile run flat distance would not have gotten us the nearest PAX dealer -- also, based on reports, there was no certainty that they would even be able service the problem immediately. The regular wheel/tires can be repaired/replaced just about anywhere.

I'll probably end up just rotating the PAX wheels with the regular wheels till they're worn out -- just don't want to have them on the car on long trips.

Just as an aside: it's interesting that the very few used RLs with CMBS/PAX listed by dealers and/or private owners almost NEVER tout the run-flat Michelin tires or even the CMBS and adaptive cruise control. Then again, maybe they're not even aware that the car has them -- the dealer we bought our used RL from was completely unaware that it was a CMBS/PAX equipped model. Probably why we got as good a deal on it as we did.

Chas2

This is why I am reluctant to switch to A-Spec suspension even though it can be physically done. I know the CMBS unit can be repointed and re-calibrated, but I have no faith that anyone knows how to really do that.