What's the logic on slow RL sales?
09-29-2005, 02:58 PM
#81
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by msu79gt82
Some are calling it "entertainment" and bashing those who are not "intelligent" enough to recognize the RL in the same light as passionate owners do. I have often praised the RLs strong points and admittedly pointed out its week points. I have often posted that there is no such thing as a perfect car and that any purchase necessarily is a compromise between the buyers Needs, Wants, and Budget. In that light this thread seeks to discuss the reasons why many did not see the RL as the appropriate compromise for them. 
P.S. Thanks for pointing out the RL's "week" points - does it have daily points and monthly points as well?
09-29-2005, 03:33 PM
#82
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Originally Posted by hondamore
Please share with us which one of your 387 posts could be construed as being positive toward the RL - I am having trouble finding it.
BTW: Is EVERY word in your 246 insightful posts spelled correctly? Such childishness
09-29-2005, 04:31 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
The M35/45 seats are not ventilated, they are COOLED (probably drawn from the A/C system). It kinda makes you feel like you pissed yourself.
Unless they somehow use some magic system in the M I'd disagree that they make you feel like you pissed yourself.
09-29-2005, 04:45 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by msu79gt82
Agreed, and I did not mean to imply that at all. But the thread topic absolutely is NOT about RL owners defending their choice, which seems to me what many are doing. The topic concedes a disappointing sales pace and seeks to discuss why.
Obviously though there are some who may seem to defend their car like it is their child when anyone criticizes it but what can you do about that....
09-29-2005, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by msu79gt82
And your point is?? The V6 RL does not compete with the V8 M45.
Originally Posted by msu79gt82
The question on the table is WHY Infiniti's ultra cheap interior is OUTSELLING Acura's superior ultra luxury offering!!!
As you so clearly stated earlier, the 8 cylinder M45 is not direct competitor to the RL. Nor is the RWD M35.
So the answer to your question about why Infiniti with it's cheap interior is selling more than the RL is simple: You are counting the sales of three different cars to come up with your total sales compared to a single car that has 6 cylinders and AWD.
Dave
09-29-2005, 05:28 PM
#86
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Originally Posted by NorCalRL
The M35x is not outselling the RL. And that's the only comparable model that Infiniti is selling. In fact, as you wrote earlier in this thread, "In fact it usually has to be special ordered - dealerships do not stock M35x and GS300awd for example."
As you so clearly stated earlier, the 8 cylinder M45 is not direct competitor to the RL. Nor is the RWD M35.
So the answer to your question about why Infiniti with it's cheap interior is selling more than the RL is simple: You are counting the sales of three different cars to come up with your total sales compared to a single car that has 6 cylinders and AWD.
Dave
As you so clearly stated earlier, the 8 cylinder M45 is not direct competitor to the RL. Nor is the RWD M35.
So the answer to your question about why Infiniti with it's cheap interior is selling more than the RL is simple: You are counting the sales of three different cars to come up with your total sales compared to a single car that has 6 cylinders and AWD.
Dave
I agree. I do like the Infiniti M, though.
09-29-2005, 08:25 PM
#87
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
3) Just because the Infiniti M is selling more units doesn't mean it is selling well. What was Infiniti's goal for the model year? Also, we are comparing a product line consisting of several cars to a product line consisting of one car (but we've already had that discussion).
5) Back to goals, Audi stated that they wanted to sell 25,000 A6's during this model year. I wonder how well they're selling or if people are calling the new A6 a failure because it is selling less than expected?
5) Back to goals, Audi stated that they wanted to sell 25,000 A6's during this model year. I wonder how well they're selling or if people are calling the new A6 a failure because it is selling less than expected?
I believe Infiniti estimated it at about 22-24k annually.
At 2500 a month, they are on their way to surpass that goal by a good margin.
A6's are selling even worse than the RL.
I'm not sure what Audi allotted per year, but they can't be happy with that. Especially since it is a re-model.
09-29-2005, 08:26 PM
#88
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Logic on slow RL sales
Reasons why RL sales are slow:
1. The 05 RL is smaller that the previous version. You can buy a TL which is roughly the same size and 20K cheaper and the only downfall is the ........
2. TL is Faster, sportier, cooler looking, handles better, and is 20k less!
3. I would buy an M35 before I bought a 300hp car thats slower than the 258hp TL
4. I would rather buy a 30K TL and put 20K in mods into the TL
5. The Acura followed thru with the concept RL that we all drooled over then they could not keep them on the lot at all.
1. The 05 RL is smaller that the previous version. You can buy a TL which is roughly the same size and 20K cheaper and the only downfall is the ........
2. TL is Faster, sportier, cooler looking, handles better, and is 20k less!
3. I would buy an M35 before I bought a 300hp car thats slower than the 258hp TL
4. I would rather buy a 30K TL and put 20K in mods into the TL
5. The Acura followed thru with the concept RL that we all drooled over then they could not keep them on the lot at all.
09-29-2005, 08:29 PM
#89
Originally Posted by Fatalvenom
Ok, I believe it is time to finish up this thread. The reason the RL hasnt sold all that great is because it is a "halo car", just like an NSX. Not everyone wants one, not everyone knows of the potential of the car. Acura knew when they brought this car to the US from Japan that it wouldnt outsell everyother import/german luxury car. This car was ment to give an alternative to the swarm of people buying the M35 with the cheap interior, or the 5-Series with its supposed "moron-proof" handling. The RL outclasses the M35 inside and it also makes the owner of the 5-series wish moron-proof applied to his decision to buy, not its lack luster handling capabilities. My point is that who cares how slow the sales are, who cares who is buying one, or who isn't. Those who understand what makes a great car knows that it is not just one strong point that makes a car great, it is many good things that become one to make a great driving experience. If you choose not to drive one, well, your loss. You can pay $10,000 more for $4,000 less of a car, be my guest. I'll be pulling .90g on the skidpad and laughing all the way to the bank. 
I sat in one and it's on par with the GS and RL.
You quote a few magazines commenting that it felt cheap, but I've also read a few where they said materials were tops in class, bested only by Audi.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
09-29-2005, 08:34 PM
#90
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Originally Posted by cdkruaya
Reasons why RL sales are slow:
1. The 05 RL is smaller that the previous version. You can buy a TL which is roughly the same size and 20K cheaper and the only downfall is the ........
2. TL is Faster, sportier, cooler looking, handles better, and is 20k less!
3. I would buy an M35 before I bought a 300hp car thats slower than the 258hp TL
4. I would rather buy a 30K TL and put 20K in mods into the TL
5. The Acura followed thru with the concept RL that we all drooled over then they could not keep them on the lot at all.
1. The 05 RL is smaller that the previous version. You can buy a TL which is roughly the same size and 20K cheaper and the only downfall is the ........
2. TL is Faster, sportier, cooler looking, handles better, and is 20k less!
3. I would buy an M35 before I bought a 300hp car thats slower than the 258hp TL
4. I would rather buy a 30K TL and put 20K in mods into the TL
5. The Acura followed thru with the concept RL that we all drooled over then they could not keep them on the lot at all.
2. The TL does not handle better, although it does accelerate faster (albeit more sloppily thanks to torque steer).
3. That's nice.
4. See #3.
5. The product RL is almost identical to the concept RL released at the New York Auto Show in 2004.
-----
a. The new TL is an impressive car, but some people prefer to pay more for SH-AWD, Japanese construction, Nav Traffic, etc.
b. Grown folks generally don't care that much about mods.
09-29-2005, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by psteng19
I don't know why you keep implying that the M has a cheap interior.
I sat in one and it's on par with the GS and RL.
You quote a few magazines commenting that it felt cheap, but I've also read a few where they said materials were tops in class, bested only by Audi.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
I sat in one and it's on par with the GS and RL.
You quote a few magazines commenting that it felt cheap, but I've also read a few where they said materials were tops in class, bested only by Audi.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
interior was a step below the RL.
09-29-2005, 08:35 PM
#92
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Originally Posted by psteng19
I believe Infiniti estimated it at about 22-24k annually.
At 2500 a month, they are on their way to surpass that goal by a good margin.
A6's are selling even worse than the RL.
I'm not sure what Audi allotted per year, but they can't be happy with that. Especially since it is a re-model.
At 2500 a month, they are on their way to surpass that goal by a good margin.
A6's are selling even worse than the RL.
I'm not sure what Audi allotted per year, but they can't be happy with that. Especially since it is a re-model.
09-29-2005, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
b. Grown folks generally don't care that much about mods.
Lots of talk around here about modding; but what do I know 
09-29-2005, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cdkruaya
Reasons why RL sales are slow:
1. The 05 RL is smaller that the previous version. You can buy a TL which is roughly the same size and 20K cheaper and the only downfall is the ........
2. TL is Faster, sportier, cooler looking, handles better, and is 20k less!
3. I would buy an M35 before I bought a 300hp car thats slower than the 258hp TL
4. I would rather buy a 30K TL and put 20K in mods into the TL
5. The Acura followed thru with the concept RL that we all drooled over then they could not keep them on the lot at all.
1. The 05 RL is smaller that the previous version. You can buy a TL which is roughly the same size and 20K cheaper and the only downfall is the ........
2. TL is Faster, sportier, cooler looking, handles better, and is 20k less!
3. I would buy an M35 before I bought a 300hp car thats slower than the 258hp TL
4. I would rather buy a 30K TL and put 20K in mods into the TL
5. The Acura followed thru with the concept RL that we all drooled over then they could not keep them on the lot at all.
To cdkruaya
Please do not compare TL and RL. Obviously you do not know much about both cars!
"TL is Faster, sportier, cooler looking, handles better" - please drop the Hyundai test drive TL, RL and than talk! (you do not know much about both)
"I would buy an M35 before I bought a 300hp car thats slower than the 258hp TL" - If you are saying that RL is 300 hp, than TL is 270 hp. Other possibility is 290HP for RL and 258HP for TL. (again you do not know much about both)
I had own 92 Integra GS, 2000 Integra GSR, 2002 CL-S and now 05 RL. Also my bro. had 02 RSX and now he has 05 TL. I did drive all cars, so I can talk.
09-29-2005, 11:09 PM
#96
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
Audi had a sales goal of 25,000. It is highly unlikely they are going to make it. Unlike Acura "fans," Audi folks don't see their low sales (even lower than the RL, like you said) as a failure.
It's a topic that's been posted on VWV with most acknowledging the slow sales as disappointing.
09-30-2005, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob L
A lot of the time when you slap certain types of varnish on it. Ever seen wood flooring in homes?
09-30-2005, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by cdkruaya
Reasons why RL sales are slow:
1. The 05 RL is smaller that the previous version. You can buy a TL which is roughly the same size and 20K cheaper and the only downfall is the ........
2. TL is Faster, sportier, cooler looking, handles better, and is 20k less!
3. I would buy an M35 before I bought a 300hp car thats slower than the 258hp TL
4. I would rather buy a 30K TL and put 20K in mods into the TL
5. The Acura followed thru with the concept RL that we all drooled over then they could not keep them on the lot at all.
1. The 05 RL is smaller that the previous version. You can buy a TL which is roughly the same size and 20K cheaper and the only downfall is the ........
2. TL is Faster, sportier, cooler looking, handles better, and is 20k less!
3. I would buy an M35 before I bought a 300hp car thats slower than the 258hp TL
4. I would rather buy a 30K TL and put 20K in mods into the TL
5. The Acura followed thru with the concept RL that we all drooled over then they could not keep them on the lot at all.
09-30-2005, 08:50 AM
#100
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Originally Posted by cdkruaya
Reasons why RL sales are slow:
1. The 05 RL is smaller that the previous version. You can buy a TL which is roughly the same size and 20K cheaper and the only downfall is the ........
2. TL is Faster, sportier, cooler looking, handles better, and is 20k less!
3. I would buy an M35 before I bought a 300hp car thats slower than the 258hp TL
4. I would rather buy a 30K TL and put 20K in mods into the TL
5. The Acura followed thru with the concept RL that we all drooled over then they could not keep them on the lot at all.
1. The 05 RL is smaller that the previous version. You can buy a TL which is roughly the same size and 20K cheaper and the only downfall is the ........
2. TL is Faster, sportier, cooler looking, handles better, and is 20k less!
3. I would buy an M35 before I bought a 300hp car thats slower than the 258hp TL
4. I would rather buy a 30K TL and put 20K in mods into the TL
5. The Acura followed thru with the concept RL that we all drooled over then they could not keep them on the lot at all.
As for the HP comparo thing...I'd buy a 190hp FOUR BANGER Lotus Elise before buying a 258hp V6 TL since the 190hp car wipes the floor with the 258hp one!! WTF cares about the weight diff between the two cars. I mean come on...use some logic and realize the HP figures dont mean much. Sheesh.
09-30-2005, 08:51 AM
#101
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Originally Posted by nicolasj
Hey I should have thought of that before writing my post! I actually have Mirage maple hardwood flooring in my home - Mirage from Canada, of course! The best hardwood brand out there in North America.
09-30-2005, 09:22 AM
#102
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I've had my RL since Dec 04 and have only seen 1 other RL in the part of SW Fla where I live. Just one other car in the 2-county area. Doesn't mean there aren't anymore out there but that's been my experience.
FWIW, it's been my opinion that many people are put off by the gadgetry that comes with it, believing it's too complicated to operate, as well as the fact that every accessory is standard, so that they feel they are paying extra for items they would not otherwise want.
FWIW, it's been my opinion that many people are put off by the gadgetry that comes with it, believing it's too complicated to operate, as well as the fact that every accessory is standard, so that they feel they are paying extra for items they would not otherwise want.
09-30-2005, 09:25 AM
#103
Originally Posted by vp911
dadcat1 - Was this in the helminc manual? I assume it is the same manual for the canadian and US, correct?
09-30-2005, 09:25 AM
#104
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i agree with the "Accord styling" part.
i am not a Honda/Acura loyalist as some of you are. i like what the RL had to offer originally and wanted one. i didnt think it looked like a Accord at all. i quickly fell out of love and in love with the M35--larger cabin and other goodies quickly got my attention.
anyway, i still havent bought my next car...which will most likely be a TL or G35, but 2 nights ago i was pulling out of Carabbas restaurant and i saw the LED's light up in front of me. i instantly thought, "hmm, when did Accord get LEDs?"
then after pulling out i saw it was a RL.
the more and more seasoned i am with Honda/Acura brand...the more it is like the Accord. it really isnt much bigger then the Accord. id they just made it bigger like the M34/45 it could at least have that going for it. "its bigger then the Accord"
but its not.
i am not a Honda/Acura loyalist as some of you are. i like what the RL had to offer originally and wanted one. i didnt think it looked like a Accord at all. i quickly fell out of love and in love with the M35--larger cabin and other goodies quickly got my attention.
anyway, i still havent bought my next car...which will most likely be a TL or G35, but 2 nights ago i was pulling out of Carabbas restaurant and i saw the LED's light up in front of me. i instantly thought, "hmm, when did Accord get LEDs?"
then after pulling out i saw it was a RL.
the more and more seasoned i am with Honda/Acura brand...the more it is like the Accord. it really isnt much bigger then the Accord. id they just made it bigger like the M34/45 it could at least have that going for it. "its bigger then the Accord"
but its not.
09-30-2005, 11:32 AM
#105
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I was checking out the 06 accord on the honda site and man, the back of the new accord and the rl sure looks similar to me. Just dont understand why they make the accord looks like the double priced RL. I hope if i do purchase the RL,i hope ppl dont come up to me and compliment on my nice modified accord i have.
09-30-2005, 01:57 PM
#106
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People can think what they want but IMO I think those who think the RL looks like the Accord need to get off whatever drugs they are smoking. Yeah there are some spots where they look alike but so what? I have some facial features similar to George Clooney but that doesnt mean I look like the guy.
Most cars could be compared and one could conclude they look similar. My former IS300 had the little inserts in the rear side windows, the trim running along the bottom fo the doors, similar door handles and it has headlights that swoop back onto the sides like my RL....that means they look alike!
Seriously.
Gimme any 2 sedans and I'll compare them and show how they look alike.
Most cars could be compared and one could conclude they look similar. My former IS300 had the little inserts in the rear side windows, the trim running along the bottom fo the doors, similar door handles and it has headlights that swoop back onto the sides like my RL....that means they look alike!
Seriously.
Gimme any 2 sedans and I'll compare them and show how they look alike.
09-30-2005, 09:07 PM
#107
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Well I think everyone has given their opinion on why the RL sales aren't as high as they could be. If you add some of the opinions said here already, you'll get mine, so I won't bother to say it again. Anyways, as for the RL looking like the Accord..... Not true at all IMO. Either way, I'd rather drive an RL and be told it looks like an Accord instead of a GS and be told it looks like a Maxima. 
09-30-2005, 09:44 PM
#108
Originally Posted by Rob L
People can think what they want but IMO I think those who think the RL looks like the Accord need to get off whatever drugs they are smoking. Yeah there are some spots where they look alike but so what? I have some facial features similar to George Clooney but that doesnt mean I look like the guy.
Most cars could be compared and one could conclude they look similar. My former IS300 had the little inserts in the rear side windows, the trim running along the bottom fo the doors, similar door handles and it has headlights that swoop back onto the sides like my RL....that means they look alike!
Seriously.
Gimme any 2 sedans and I'll compare them and show how they look alike.
Most cars could be compared and one could conclude they look similar. My former IS300 had the little inserts in the rear side windows, the trim running along the bottom fo the doors, similar door handles and it has headlights that swoop back onto the sides like my RL....that means they look alike!
Seriously.
Gimme any 2 sedans and I'll compare them and show how they look alike.
09-30-2005, 11:08 PM
#109
Originally Posted by vtecracer
Either way, I'd rather drive an RL and be told it looks like an Accord instead of a GS and be told it looks like a Maxima.
10-01-2005, 12:27 AM
#110
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All of this talk about the RL looking like an Accord and the GS and M looking like a Maxima seems only to hold true in pictures. In my opinion, each of these cars are striking in person and clearly look "special". Each car has a nice, wide, sporty stance and each has a serious glaring face. Swaths of chrome dress up the car like designer jewelry. Large wheels, bold arches, and senuous curves give these cars a dynamic, luxurious look. It doesn't matter if I'm a car fanatic or not--they just look expensive.
Even if the cars were parked side by side to one another, I don't think I'd mistake them for their lesser counterparts. Pictures just don't do the cars justice and it's so much easier to make the comparisons by means of pictures.
With that being said, I think this thread has gone horribly off-topic and is running all over the place...and I suppose there's nothing really "wrong" with that, it just seems that there are various other threads that say pretty much the same thing as various posts on this one.
Even if the cars were parked side by side to one another, I don't think I'd mistake them for their lesser counterparts. Pictures just don't do the cars justice and it's so much easier to make the comparisons by means of pictures.
With that being said, I think this thread has gone horribly off-topic and is running all over the place...and I suppose there's nothing really "wrong" with that, it just seems that there are various other threads that say pretty much the same thing as various posts on this one.
10-01-2005, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by phile
You should've posted the M35/45 with the Maxima's pic. From the side profile, they look like the same car, even though they're technically built on different platforms.
10-02-2005, 01:17 AM
#112
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Well vtecracer is soooo right. I have to do double takes to make sure the new GS is a GS not an altima/maxima(same car). I can see an RL coming from 1/2 to 1/4 mile away on the road and know that it is an RL. Besides if you've seen an A-Spec RL IN PERSON and not only pictures, you would agree that it looks nothing like an accord. I went to the dealer today to check out the A-Spec that was on the floor, and all I can say is WOW. That body kit really turns the RL up 2 notches when it was already on 10. BTW, the wheel finish is beautiful!!!!!
10-03-2005, 06:20 PM
#113
Originally Posted by NorCalRL
The M35x is not outselling the RL. And that's the only comparable model that Infiniti is selling. In fact, as you wrote earlier in this thread, "In fact it usually has to be special ordered - dealerships do not stock M35x and GS300awd for example."
As you so clearly stated earlier, the 8 cylinder M45 is not direct competitor to the RL. Nor is the RWD M35.
So the answer to your question about why Infiniti with it's cheap interior is selling more than the RL is simple: You are counting the sales of three different cars to come up with your total sales compared to a single car that has 6 cylinders and AWD.
Dave
As you so clearly stated earlier, the 8 cylinder M45 is not direct competitor to the RL. Nor is the RWD M35.
So the answer to your question about why Infiniti with it's cheap interior is selling more than the RL is simple: You are counting the sales of three different cars to come up with your total sales compared to a single car that has 6 cylinders and AWD.
Dave
By your logic, the TL cannot be compared to the 3 series, G35, IS, because they are RWD and TL is FWD.
The drive wheels are not the sole deciding criteria in which cars are compared.
There is no sole determining criteria in which cars are compared and judged.
I think the majority of buyers will place purpose/capacity (i.e. luxury vs. sport, sedan vs. coupe, etc.) and price ahead of drive wheels.
So to dispute your argument, yes you can compare all variants of the M to the RL.
They are both 4 door luxury sport sedans that seat five.
The price range of M is mid $40k - mid $50k, which is only +/- a few percent from the RL.
10-03-2005, 06:23 PM
#114
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by psteng19
Now this is where I disagree.
By your logic, the TL cannot be compared to the 3 series, G35, IS, because they are RWD and TL is FWD.
The drive wheels are not the sole deciding criteria in which cars are compared.
There is no sole determining criteria in which cars are compared and judged.
I think the majority of buyers will place purpose/capacity (i.e. luxury vs. sport, sedan vs. coupe, etc.) and price ahead of drive wheels.
So to dispute your argument, yes you can compare all variants of the M to the RL.
They are both 4 door luxury sport sedans that seat five.
The price range of M is mid $40k - mid $50k, which is only +/- a few percent from the RL.
By your logic, the TL cannot be compared to the 3 series, G35, IS, because they are RWD and TL is FWD.
The drive wheels are not the sole deciding criteria in which cars are compared.
There is no sole determining criteria in which cars are compared and judged.
I think the majority of buyers will place purpose/capacity (i.e. luxury vs. sport, sedan vs. coupe, etc.) and price ahead of drive wheels.
So to dispute your argument, yes you can compare all variants of the M to the RL.
They are both 4 door luxury sport sedans that seat five.
The price range of M is mid $40k - mid $50k, which is only +/- a few percent from the RL.
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