What's the logic on slow RL sales?
09-28-2005, 01:14 PM
#41
Originally Posted by 1HOT NSX
ĦBRAVO! I could not have said it better. I agree with you 100%.
The RL is a magnificent car that handles better than anything out there (4 doors of course, my NSX handles better) including the BMW 5 series. Before I bought mine I tested anything and everything between 40 and 65 grand and I fell in love with the RL for the same reasons you mentioned above. There isn't a nicer interior to be found - the BMW interior is down right cheap looking compared to the RL. Styling? Much, much nicer IMO than anything else too - sure, it has an Accord family resemblance just like a Ferrari 430 resembles a Fiat Spider - after all, a Ferrari is just a fancy Fiat.
The RL is a magnificent car that handles better than anything out there (4 doors of course, my NSX handles better) including the BMW 5 series. Before I bought mine I tested anything and everything between 40 and 65 grand and I fell in love with the RL for the same reasons you mentioned above. There isn't a nicer interior to be found - the BMW interior is down right cheap looking compared to the RL. Styling? Much, much nicer IMO than anything else too - sure, it has an Accord family resemblance just like a Ferrari 430 resembles a Fiat Spider - after all, a Ferrari is just a fancy Fiat.
They rank the 5 series first, then M45 and it's a toss up between the GS and RL.
I don't think you can compare your public road driving experience to that of a professional editor's on a race track.
09-28-2005, 01:17 PM
#42
Originally Posted by Fatalvenom
Well if those numbers are accurate, then sales are slowly going up, or am I just seeing things ?? 
RL sales started off great. Then word on the GS and M hit the streets in Jan/Feb causing RL sales to decline as consumers put in orders for the GS/M.
It's steadily climbed since, but not sure if it's due to incentives or interest.
09-28-2005, 01:42 PM
#43
CLS 6MT Navi
Interesting discussion and points. I've always seen a lot of RLs sitting on the local dealer lot, with little activity around them.
Honda has continually blurred the lines between Honda and Acura, the line used to be 6 cylinders was an Acura, not any more. There is not enough delineation between the 2 nameplates.
RL needed more distinction to make it stand out with it's many successful rivals. Keeping the Legend name may have drawn more attention. A shnazzy coupe to go with the RL might have drawn more interest too.
Infiniti has grown sales by pushing sporty styling and performance. Even stodgy Toyota is supposedly wanting to move to more sporty lines. With the RL, Acura went backward on styling. The more agressive TL makes the RL look even more like an Accord.
Acura loaded the RL with nice goodies and interior and wrapped it in a non-descript package. Most non-Acura enthusisasts will never even notice it.
Honda has continually blurred the lines between Honda and Acura, the line used to be 6 cylinders was an Acura, not any more. There is not enough delineation between the 2 nameplates.
RL needed more distinction to make it stand out with it's many successful rivals. Keeping the Legend name may have drawn more attention. A shnazzy coupe to go with the RL might have drawn more interest too.
Infiniti has grown sales by pushing sporty styling and performance. Even stodgy Toyota is supposedly wanting to move to more sporty lines. With the RL, Acura went backward on styling. The more agressive TL makes the RL look even more like an Accord.
Acura loaded the RL with nice goodies and interior and wrapped it in a non-descript package. Most non-Acura enthusisasts will never even notice it.
09-28-2005, 02:07 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by 123456SPEED
Infiniti has grown sales by pushing sporty styling and performance.
The more agressive TL makes the RL look even more like an Accord.
Acura loaded the RL with nice goodies and interior and wrapped it in a non-descript package. Most non-Acura enthusisasts will never even notice it.
The more agressive TL makes the RL look even more like an Accord.
Acura loaded the RL with nice goodies and interior and wrapped it in a non-descript package. Most non-Acura enthusisasts will never even notice it.
http://www.350zmotoring.com/gallery/...thumbs/M45.jpg
Perhaps it's the truckish grill from the FX35 that looks sporty to you.
If the RL looks too much like an Accord to you, can you tell the difference between the G35 and the M45? Here's the G35: Compare it to the picture of the M45 above and tell me that they don't look like the identical car of two different model years.
http://www.350zmotoring.com/gallery/...thumbs/G35.jpg
I don't think they are ugly, just extemely bland. Even one of the reviewers who thought highly of the cars performance could only complement the looks by calling it a "sleeper." Faint praise indeed.
Sometimes seeing the cars in person makes a difference. In the case of the RL that's definately true. With the G35 and M35, seeing the cars in person doesn't help any.
YMMV,
Dave
09-28-2005, 03:51 PM
#46
Originally Posted by psteng19
Those of you who say this is the best handling sedan in its class are flat out contradicting what all the publications are saying.
They rank the 5 series first, then M45 and it's a toss up between the GS and RL.
I don't think you can compare your public road driving experience to that of a professional editor's on a race track.
They rank the 5 series first, then M45 and it's a toss up between the GS and RL.
I don't think you can compare your public road driving experience to that of a professional editor's on a race track.
09-28-2005, 05:06 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by static808
Also, the car has similar dimensions as the TL. This, I believe has hurt the car the most. The TL is geared towards the BMW 3 series, but the car is much longer with the same interior diimensions as a BMW 3. The TL & RL are about 3 inches in difference on the exterior. I believe this was the big problem. People couldn't see why they would spend the extra $12K or so on a AWD car. You can't say its a bigger car. You can't even say its a big "uplift" like people say when they buy a 5 over a 3 series. The car's look too similar in size.
09-28-2005, 06:24 PM
#48
Three Wheelin'
1) If the TL had SH-AWD, it would BE the RL. Unfortunately, it would also be as heavy as the RL and almost as expensive. Think about the differences between a 2003 Lexus ES 300 and and 2003 Toyota Avalon. There isn't much difference except one car is manufactured in North America and one car is manufactured in Japan. That would be the only major difference between the TL and RL if both cars had SH-AWD. That system is heavy and expensive, so that's something to consider.
2) Following Hendjaz's lead, I typed in zip code 20001 (downtown Washington, DC) into Carsdirect.com and their price for the RL is $47,215. Then I put in 46401 (Gary, Indiana) and the same car costs $44,715. I guess that shows that the pricing of the RL is as diverse as our great nation. Let's not assume that the car is selling poorly or requires steep discounts everywhere.
3) Just because the Infiniti M is selling more units doesn't mean it is selling well. What was Infiniti's goal for the model year? Also, we are comparing a product line consisting of several cars to a product line consisting of one car (but we've already had that discussion).
4) Anybody who was in the computer biz during the dot com era has learned that profits are important. And I don't think it would be profitable at this time for Honda to develop and manufacture a V8 engine for 1 car model.
5) Back to goals, Audi stated that they wanted to sell 25,000 A6's during this model year. I wonder how well they're selling or if people are calling the new A6 a failure because it is selling less than expected?
6) For some current TL buyers, not only is there not enough incentive for then to buy the RL, they can't buy a car in that price range.
7) Some people are dumb, like 1HOT NSX said, and many people are ignorant, meaning uninformed. SH-AWD is probably the most differentiating feature of the RL. However, many people out there don't know what AWD is, let alone SH-AWD, so they don't understand what the big fuss is. For example, I have a friend who had a 2000 Acura TL who had no idea what torque steer is and how SH-AWD can alleviate that problem. People like that might definitely see the TL as a vastly better value. Also, very few people who buy TL's realize that their cars are US-manufactured and would probably buy something else if they did. That's just a lack of knowledge.
2) Following Hendjaz's lead, I typed in zip code 20001 (downtown Washington, DC) into Carsdirect.com and their price for the RL is $47,215. Then I put in 46401 (Gary, Indiana) and the same car costs $44,715. I guess that shows that the pricing of the RL is as diverse as our great nation. Let's not assume that the car is selling poorly or requires steep discounts everywhere.
3) Just because the Infiniti M is selling more units doesn't mean it is selling well. What was Infiniti's goal for the model year? Also, we are comparing a product line consisting of several cars to a product line consisting of one car (but we've already had that discussion).
4) Anybody who was in the computer biz during the dot com era has learned that profits are important. And I don't think it would be profitable at this time for Honda to develop and manufacture a V8 engine for 1 car model.
5) Back to goals, Audi stated that they wanted to sell 25,000 A6's during this model year. I wonder how well they're selling or if people are calling the new A6 a failure because it is selling less than expected?
6) For some current TL buyers, not only is there not enough incentive for then to buy the RL, they can't buy a car in that price range.
7) Some people are dumb, like 1HOT NSX said, and many people are ignorant, meaning uninformed. SH-AWD is probably the most differentiating feature of the RL. However, many people out there don't know what AWD is, let alone SH-AWD, so they don't understand what the big fuss is. For example, I have a friend who had a 2000 Acura TL who had no idea what torque steer is and how SH-AWD can alleviate that problem. People like that might definitely see the TL as a vastly better value. Also, very few people who buy TL's realize that their cars are US-manufactured and would probably buy something else if they did. That's just a lack of knowledge.
09-28-2005, 07:07 PM
#49
Originally Posted by hondamore
I agree with 1HOTNSX. By definition, 1/2 the population has an IQ below 100. These people need cars too.
09-28-2005, 07:11 PM
#50
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
7) Some people are dumb, like 1HOT NSX said, and many people are ignorant, meaning uninformed. SH-AWD is probably the most differentiating feature of the RL. However, many people out there don't know what AWD is, let alone SH-AWD, so they don't understand what the big fuss is. For example, I have a friend who had a 2000 Acura TL who had no idea what torque steer is and how SH-AWD can alleviate that problem. People like that might definitely see the TL as a vastly better value. Also, very few people who buy TL's realize that their cars are US-manufactured and would probably buy something else if they did. That's just a lack of knowledge.
). So someone in Florida who's uninformed (I would not use "dumb" to describe them) may not see a reason why an RL with AWD would be a good choice.
09-28-2005, 07:26 PM
#51
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by phile
On top of that, it has been drilled into consumers' minds that SUV = weather safety, not handling (and as previously brought up, Acura is doing such great job with marketing that ). So someone in Florida who's uninformed (I would not use "dumb" to describe them) may not see a reason why an RL with AWD would be a good choice.
). So someone in Florida who's uninformed (I would not use "dumb" to describe them) may not see a reason why an RL with AWD would be a good choice.Very well said. That might be one of the reasons why the RL isn't selling all that well in Texas. I don't know if even basic drive-configuration concepts can be taught in a commercial, though, unless it's in an infomercial.
If it is any consolation, the RL has been outselling the A6 every month since May 2005. I doubt if Audi will come close to their 25,000 goal.
09-28-2005, 07:47 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by phile
That's not true at all. IQ scores fall on a bell curve, just like most things. And the average is at 100 and standard deviation is 15, which means that by definition more than 1/2 the population has an IQ at 100. Statistically, around 70% of the people out there should be within 1 standard deviation above/below the mean (i.e. IQ scores of 85-115).
Sorry to get WWWWAAAAAYYYYY off topic.
09-28-2005, 07:57 PM
#53
Three Wheelin'
Math is scary.
09-28-2005, 08:14 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by hondamore
The M35's ultra cheap looking interior has been mentioned by a few posters in this thread so you should consider that it has been acknowledged. Allow me to echo that opinion. If you feel the M35x is a better value, please go buy one.
Because a few posters have posted comments about the M35's interior does not mean it has been acknowledged, sorry.
09-28-2005, 08:42 PM
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A Great Car at an incredible price
It took me about a month of test driving every $50,000 luxury car...and where I live everything is about image...status...driving the car that everybody else drives. I know people who just buy a car...don't test drive...don't compare...don't care...just the image that confirms their identity. There are definitely differences in quality...in and out of a car. Yes...a top of the line MB is really something...but who wants to pay $75,000 or more. I can tell you....I never saw myself as a Honda/Acura type. Yes...my employees or "other" people...but just too Japanese sterile...I thought.
I don't know why I went into the local Acura dealer...just compulsive I guess...wanting to make sure I looked at everything. WOW... I sat in the RL...I couldn't quite understand why I hadn't seen more of these cars on the road...why more people weren't talking it up....why most of our friends didn't have an Acura RL in their driveway. But yes....it was a Honda/Acura...no passion...just very practical. But yes...I read a lot of reviews...went to websites...went back a few times to the dealer...compared everything to the leading contenders...I began to get excited about this car....and when I negotiated a price that was too good to be true...signed on the dotted line.
Let me tell you...I went on a business trip for a few days before picking up the car...and I began to have 2nd thoughts. I didn't see any RL's on the street...and I began thinking about owning a Honda/Acura. Had I made a mistake....I began to think of ways of backing out...I began to sweat. Somehow...I held steady...held my breath...and headed to the dealership with my son (who had never seen the car) to pick up my Silver/Taupe RL.
We drove up...and there was my car by the front door...and WOW...my son (17 years old) and I couldn't believe how great it looked. In the last few days...it even looks better. Everything about the car has been totally thought out...it is just about the perfect car. My 14 year old daughter...76 year old mother...50ish year old friends are all amazed. Yes...it looks Hondish/Japanese...but more and more the subtle lines are taking me to more specific design details that I will not grow tired of. The list of standard features is amazing...and at a discounted price...not too much higher than a lot of "nice" cars...but not luxury flagships. What a yacht is to a boat...this luxury auto is to most "nice" cars. I've seen a lot of those Audi/BMW/MB/Lexus/Infiniti yachts out their too...this car can hold it's own against any of them. And if you like to think of yourself as a thinking individual who doesn't follow the herd...this is a car to check out.
OK...I've only had it a few days...I have an open mind...but the one thing I always respected about Honda/Acura was their quality. I hope my RL lives up to it.
I don't know why I went into the local Acura dealer...just compulsive I guess...wanting to make sure I looked at everything. WOW... I sat in the RL...I couldn't quite understand why I hadn't seen more of these cars on the road...why more people weren't talking it up....why most of our friends didn't have an Acura RL in their driveway. But yes....it was a Honda/Acura...no passion...just very practical. But yes...I read a lot of reviews...went to websites...went back a few times to the dealer...compared everything to the leading contenders...I began to get excited about this car....and when I negotiated a price that was too good to be true...signed on the dotted line.
Let me tell you...I went on a business trip for a few days before picking up the car...and I began to have 2nd thoughts. I didn't see any RL's on the street...and I began thinking about owning a Honda/Acura. Had I made a mistake....I began to think of ways of backing out...I began to sweat. Somehow...I held steady...held my breath...and headed to the dealership with my son (who had never seen the car) to pick up my Silver/Taupe RL.
We drove up...and there was my car by the front door...and WOW...my son (17 years old) and I couldn't believe how great it looked. In the last few days...it even looks better. Everything about the car has been totally thought out...it is just about the perfect car. My 14 year old daughter...76 year old mother...50ish year old friends are all amazed. Yes...it looks Hondish/Japanese...but more and more the subtle lines are taking me to more specific design details that I will not grow tired of. The list of standard features is amazing...and at a discounted price...not too much higher than a lot of "nice" cars...but not luxury flagships. What a yacht is to a boat...this luxury auto is to most "nice" cars. I've seen a lot of those Audi/BMW/MB/Lexus/Infiniti yachts out their too...this car can hold it's own against any of them. And if you like to think of yourself as a thinking individual who doesn't follow the herd...this is a car to check out.
OK...I've only had it a few days...I have an open mind...but the one thing I always respected about Honda/Acura was their quality. I hope my RL lives up to it.
09-28-2005, 08:59 PM
#56
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by nicolasj
Give me a break! Ultra-cheap looking interior? Please! Tell me where the interior of that car looks ultra-cheap to you. We often see car comparos with comments like "interior fit and finish not on par with other manufacturers" but we never know what the "pro" who wrote the article is talking about. It's too easy!
Because a few posters have posted comments about the M35's interior does not mean it has been acknowledged, sorry.
Because a few posters have posted comments about the M35's interior does not mean it has been acknowledged, sorry.
09-28-2005, 09:17 PM
#57
Congrats on the new car!
Originally Posted by sailorman
It took me about a month of test driving every $50,000 luxury car...and where I live everything is about image...status...driving the car that everybody else drives. I know people who just buy a car...don't test drive...don't compare...don't care...just the image that confirms their identity. There are definitely differences in quality...in and out of a car. Yes...a top of the line MB is really something...but who wants to pay $75,000 or more. I can tell you....I never saw myself as a Honda/Acura type. Yes...my employees or "other" people...but just too Japanese sterile...I thought.
I don't know why I went into the local Acura dealer...just compulsive I guess...wanting to make sure I looked at everything. WOW... I sat in the RL...I couldn't quite understand why I hadn't seen more of these cars on the road...why more people weren't talking it up....why most of our friends didn't have an Acura RL in their driveway. But yes....it was a Honda/Acura...no passion...just very practical. But yes...I read a lot of reviews...went to websites...went back a few times to the dealer...compared everything to the leading contenders...I began to get excited about this car....and when I negotiated a price that was too good to be true...signed on the dotted line.
Let me tell you...I went on a business trip for a few days before picking up the car...and I began to have 2nd thoughts. I didn't see any RL's on the street...and I began thinking about owning a Honda/Acura. Had I made a mistake....I began to think of ways of backing out...I began to sweat. Somehow...I held steady...held my breath...and headed to the dealership with my son (who had never seen the car) to pick up my Silver/Taupe RL.
We drove up...and there was my car by the front door...and WOW...my son (17 years old) and I couldn't believe how great it looked. In the last few days...it even looks better. Everything about the car has been totally thought out...it is just about the perfect car. My 14 year old daughter...76 year old mother...50ish year old friends are all amazed. Yes...it looks Hondish/Japanese...but more and more the subtle lines are taking me to more specific design details that I will not grow tired of. The list of standard features is amazing...and at a discounted price...not too much higher than a lot of "nice" cars...but not luxury flagships. What a yacht is to a boat...this luxury auto is to most "nice" cars. I've seen a lot of those Audi/BMW/MB/Lexus/Infiniti yachts out their too...this car can hold it's own against any of them. And if you like to think of yourself as a thinking individual who doesn't follow the herd...this is a car to check out.
OK...I've only had it a few days...I have an open mind...but the one thing I always respected about Honda/Acura was their quality. I hope my RL lives up to it.
I don't know why I went into the local Acura dealer...just compulsive I guess...wanting to make sure I looked at everything. WOW... I sat in the RL...I couldn't quite understand why I hadn't seen more of these cars on the road...why more people weren't talking it up....why most of our friends didn't have an Acura RL in their driveway. But yes....it was a Honda/Acura...no passion...just very practical. But yes...I read a lot of reviews...went to websites...went back a few times to the dealer...compared everything to the leading contenders...I began to get excited about this car....and when I negotiated a price that was too good to be true...signed on the dotted line.
Let me tell you...I went on a business trip for a few days before picking up the car...and I began to have 2nd thoughts. I didn't see any RL's on the street...and I began thinking about owning a Honda/Acura. Had I made a mistake....I began to think of ways of backing out...I began to sweat. Somehow...I held steady...held my breath...and headed to the dealership with my son (who had never seen the car) to pick up my Silver/Taupe RL.
We drove up...and there was my car by the front door...and WOW...my son (17 years old) and I couldn't believe how great it looked. In the last few days...it even looks better. Everything about the car has been totally thought out...it is just about the perfect car. My 14 year old daughter...76 year old mother...50ish year old friends are all amazed. Yes...it looks Hondish/Japanese...but more and more the subtle lines are taking me to more specific design details that I will not grow tired of. The list of standard features is amazing...and at a discounted price...not too much higher than a lot of "nice" cars...but not luxury flagships. What a yacht is to a boat...this luxury auto is to most "nice" cars. I've seen a lot of those Audi/BMW/MB/Lexus/Infiniti yachts out their too...this car can hold it's own against any of them. And if you like to think of yourself as a thinking individual who doesn't follow the herd...this is a car to check out.
OK...I've only had it a few days...I have an open mind...but the one thing I always respected about Honda/Acura was their quality. I hope my RL lives up to it.
09-28-2005, 09:38 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
Very well said. That might be one of the reasons why the RL isn't selling all that well in Texas. I don't know if even basic drive-configuration concepts can be taught in a commercial, though, unless it's in an infomercial.
09-28-2005, 10:04 PM
#59
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Why is RL not selling so great: why?
1. MSRP=$49100 - should be $32,000 base (as AWD not SH) excluding all options, then the list is as follows:
leather (from leatherette) + $ 1500
automatic transmission + $ 1300
Heated Front Seats + $ 500
Power Sunshade/Manual R + $ 575
Xenon Adaptive Lights + $800
Nav + $1800
XM + $600
leather upholstery, door trim
4-way power lumbar support seats
Auto-dimming inside rear-view mirror
Lighting Package, Integrated 3-button
Universal garage-door opener
+ $2000
Active Steering + $1200
Comfort Access (Key less) + $1000
SH-AWD + $2000
Sound Package/Phone + $2500
Second Clear Coat + $800
Extra HP 85 + $1500
Total $49,000 (still cheaper than 525, witch is $60,000 with only 2.5 liter and 215 HP similar equipped)
I think you get the point. Does $32,000 sounds much better when you enter the dealer? For most of us in this form it does not, but for the rest sure it does. Since they even do not know the difference in SH-AWD vs. AWD. So here is your answer why it is not selling. So why do you think you got or should get the RL?
1. MSRP=$49100 - should be $32,000 base (as AWD not SH) excluding all options, then the list is as follows:
leather (from leatherette) + $ 1500
automatic transmission + $ 1300
Heated Front Seats + $ 500
Power Sunshade/Manual R + $ 575
Xenon Adaptive Lights + $800
Nav + $1800
XM + $600
leather upholstery, door trim
4-way power lumbar support seats
Auto-dimming inside rear-view mirror
Lighting Package, Integrated 3-button
Universal garage-door opener
+ $2000
Active Steering + $1200
Comfort Access (Key less) + $1000
SH-AWD + $2000
Sound Package/Phone + $2500
Second Clear Coat + $800
Extra HP 85 + $1500
Total $49,000 (still cheaper than 525, witch is $60,000 with only 2.5 liter and 215 HP similar equipped)
I think you get the point. Does $32,000 sounds much better when you enter the dealer? For most of us in this form it does not, but for the rest sure it does. Since they even do not know the difference in SH-AWD vs. AWD. So here is your answer why it is not selling. So why do you think you got or should get the RL?
09-28-2005, 10:35 PM
#61
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Ok, I believe it is time to finish up this thread. The reason the RL hasnt sold all that great is because it is a "halo car", just like an NSX. Not everyone wants one, not everyone knows of the potential of the car. Acura knew when they brought this car to the US from Japan that it wouldnt outsell everyother import/german luxury car. This car was ment to give an alternative to the swarm of people buying the M35 with the cheap interior, or the 5-Series with its supposed "moron-proof" handling. The RL outclasses the M35 inside and it also makes the owner of the 5-series wish moron-proof applied to his decision to buy, not its lack luster handling capabilities. My point is that who cares how slow the sales are, who cares who is buying one, or who isn't. Those who understand what makes a great car knows that it is not just one strong point that makes a car great, it is many good things that become one to make a great driving experience. If you choose not to drive one, well, your loss. You can pay $10,000 more for $4,000 less of a car, be my guest. I'll be pulling .90g on the skidpad and laughing all the way to the bank. 
09-28-2005, 10:41 PM
#62
Three Wheelin'
Hear hear!
Fatalvenom is my hero.
Fatalvenom is my hero.
09-29-2005, 01:08 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by hondamore
I was referring to the wood trim in the M35. Even the Infiniti salesman that I test drove the M35 with couldn't believe how cheap it looked.
I didn't like the M45 wood too much initially but now think it does not look like plastic like the one in the Lexus GS430. Since when wood is supposed to be a glossy material anyway?
Anyway, this is ALL a matter of taste. Saying the M45 interior looks ultra-cheap because you don't like the wood doesn't mean anything. Well, it means you don't like its wood trim but that's about it.
09-29-2005, 01:40 AM
#64
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Acura and Honda in particular have always been about technical excellence with a dash of driving passion. Unfortunately, for Acura the luxury market is all about
A) Status/Image
B) Service
C) Features
Acura definitely has features in their cars.. service needs to be worked on.. some dealerships arent worthy to even be a Kia dealership. (In Oregon, one is actually PART of a Kia dealership
)
For me, I dont care about status/image, i prefer to be anonymous while i drive in a comfortable yet attractive car. Service is a big deal, but I often just get my oil changes done at Honda for 20 bucks.
Image/status isnt helped by the RSX and the Integra before it..
A) Status/Image
B) Service
C) Features
Acura definitely has features in their cars.. service needs to be worked on.. some dealerships arent worthy to even be a Kia dealership. (In Oregon, one is actually PART of a Kia dealership
)For me, I dont care about status/image, i prefer to be anonymous while i drive in a comfortable yet attractive car. Service is a big deal, but I often just get my oil changes done at Honda for 20 bucks.
Image/status isnt helped by the RSX and the Integra before it..
09-29-2005, 05:05 AM
#65
Its an amazing car. Kudos to andrewgg2 on the pricing breakdown. Very similar to the BMW 330xi which is MSRP $48515 (via bmwusa.com). To me, its crazy to think a 330xi is that high.
If Acura does the things mentioned in this thread, sales will increase and I'm sure somebody is reading this...
In the end, if people's disposable income is to go into a MB/BMW/Lexus/Infiniti, I say, more power to you. My disposable income has other priorities, which why I take delivery this friday (9/30) on the best mid-luxury sedan money can buy...the Acura RL.
If Acura does the things mentioned in this thread, sales will increase and I'm sure somebody is reading this...
In the end, if people's disposable income is to go into a MB/BMW/Lexus/Infiniti, I say, more power to you. My disposable income has other priorities, which why I take delivery this friday (9/30) on the best mid-luxury sedan money can buy...the Acura RL.
09-29-2005, 08:49 AM
#66
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Originally Posted by Fatalvenom
Ok, I believe it is time to finish up this thread.
or say non-RL owners have a low IQ. I think Fatalvenom is right, this thread's attempt at serious debate has gotten off-topic.
09-29-2005, 09:18 AM
#67
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I WAS undecided about whether to buy the RL or M45 sport.
Test drove both pretty intensely. Ended up buying an M45 sport, blk/blk with alum., tech/journ/spoiler last night.
The interior quality/fit of the M is on par with the RL, which is probably some of the best in class (I didn't like the flat wood...the RL wood is much better which is why I got alum), but I did like the layout of the RL better with the ambient lighting and bluish tones.
The exterior...the RL Looks great in person but pretty bland in pictures. But I felt it couldn't hold a candle to the M45, especially in black with the 19" rims and shorter overhangs.
The M45 felt so much better on me. As stated in earlier threads, there were some things that Acura could've done with the RL that would sway me towards them, but the details of the 2006 models are already out and those changes barely influenced me, which is a shame.
And in my location, I haven't seen ANY M's on the road and maybe 1 RL. I was in San Antonio for 4 weeks and only saw 1 M and 1 RL also, so popularity wasn't too much of a concern.
Test drove both pretty intensely. Ended up buying an M45 sport, blk/blk with alum., tech/journ/spoiler last night.
The interior quality/fit of the M is on par with the RL, which is probably some of the best in class (I didn't like the flat wood...the RL wood is much better which is why I got alum), but I did like the layout of the RL better with the ambient lighting and bluish tones.
The exterior...the RL Looks great in person but pretty bland in pictures. But I felt it couldn't hold a candle to the M45, especially in black with the 19" rims and shorter overhangs.
The M45 felt so much better on me. As stated in earlier threads, there were some things that Acura could've done with the RL that would sway me towards them, but the details of the 2006 models are already out and those changes barely influenced me, which is a shame.
And in my location, I haven't seen ANY M's on the road and maybe 1 RL. I was in San Antonio for 4 weeks and only saw 1 M and 1 RL also, so popularity wasn't too much of a concern.
09-29-2005, 10:39 AM
#68
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by msu79gt82
As I've said before, this is an interesting thread; now I will add informative. What I have learned is that those who do not own an RL have several interesting reasons why it is not selling as well as Acura would like (based largely of course on why they do not own one as per the topic question). Those who own an RL either deny the slow disappointing sales or say non-RL owners have a low IQ.
I think Fatalvenom is right, this thread's attempt at serious debate has gotten off-topic.
or say non-RL owners have a low IQ. I think Fatalvenom is right, this thread's attempt at serious debate has gotten off-topic.
09-29-2005, 10:46 AM
#69
Originally Posted by hondamore
Since the "bell" is symmetrical with the high point at 100, 1/2 of the bell, ie 1/2 of the population is below 100 and the other 1/2 above 100. True, 70 percent fall between +/- 1 standard deviation (15) but all that means is that 35% of the population falls between 85 and 100 and 35% falls between 100 and 115.
Sorry to get WWWWAAAAAYYYYY off topic.
Sorry to get WWWWAAAAAYYYYY off topic.
09-29-2005, 10:58 AM
#70
Originally Posted by hondamore
Geez, if you don't understand that a tongue-in-cheek remark like the IQ remark is made just for fun, you have a problem. This thread is not about having a "serious debate" but rather is for entertainment and informative purposes. You come to an Acura forum and bash the RL constantly, you hum and haw about which car to buy for months and months on end, you worship the M35x but won't go buy one (without ever giving a reason why you won't go and buy the M). For god sake, sh## or get off the pot already. Thank you, have a nice day.
09-29-2005, 11:01 AM
#71
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Originally Posted by nicolasj
Since when wood is supposed to be a glossy material anyway?
09-29-2005, 11:08 AM
#72
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Originally Posted by 1HOT NSX
ĦBRAVO! I could not have said it better. I agree with you 100%.
The RL is a magnificent car that handles better than anything out there (4 doors of course, my NSX handles better) including the BMW 5 series.
The RL is a magnificent car that handles better than anything out there (4 doors of course, my NSX handles better) including the BMW 5 series.
09-29-2005, 11:11 AM
#73
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Originally Posted by Fatalvenom
Another point I wanted to bring up is, who cares how the car sells. Look at the M45 they made for a year before they redesigned. Those cars have only lost like 5,000 off of sticker and they got replaced in one year . Infact I like the 1-yr M45 better than the new one, it actually had more power. Well regardless, my point is that so what if not everyone on the block has an RL, who cares if it sells 10,000 units a year. I like cars that not everyone sees everyday. Would a S500 Benz be so "pimp" if it was used as a taxi like in Germany ?? Enjoy your car and take pleasure in the fact that not everyone owns one, it just makes your knowledge of fine cars more apparent to those of us who can see through the badge-barrier.
09-29-2005, 11:28 AM
#74
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Originally Posted by msu79gt82
As I've said before, this is an interesting thread; now I will add informative. What I have learned is that those who do not own an RL have several interesting reasons why it is not selling as well as Acura would like (based largely of course on why they do not own one as per the topic question). Those who own an RL either deny the slow disappointing sales or say non-RL owners have a low IQ.
I think Fatalvenom is right, this thread's attempt at serious debate has gotten off-topic.
or say non-RL owners have a low IQ. I think Fatalvenom is right, this thread's attempt at serious debate has gotten off-topic.
The truth is that a lot of car buyers arent that intellgient and are status/brand whores and that factors into why a car isnt selling well. I guarantee you that if this RL was badged a BMW it would be selling a lot better and you wouldnt get many of the supposed complaints (price, etc) that you get now. What does this say? It says that just because a product doesnt sell well doesnt always mean there is something wrong with it. Popularity does not always (hardly ever actually) equal quality and often times popularity is decided by the stupidity factor of humans who act lemming like at times.
I do not think the RL is perfect and it has shortcomings/things that could have been done differently...but I would say the biggest reason it isnt selling better is simply because most people are dumb and they buy based on the badge and prestige factor not on the product. There are those who dont feel the actual car does anything for them but there are most likely a lot more who dont feel the "A" on the hood does enough to boost their fragile egos.
No offense but for a guy who tells people not to take things so personally you do a great job of it yourself when people disagree with what you say.
Oh and the thread topic does not say "why do you non RL owners think the RL is selling slow?" So pelase dont imply only non RL owners' opinions are worthy or valid. This isn't politics...
09-29-2005, 11:47 AM
#75
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Originally Posted by Fatalvenom
Not to mention I tested those "cooling" seats on a nice July day down here in South Florida. Lets just say nice try Infinity, Lexus, and MB.....but try testing them down here instead of New York on a crisp November evening.
The best system will be the one that the main seat cooling company (forget their name but they make the system found in the LS430) is designing where the system is actually a mini air condtioner and you will be able to select specific temps for the air coming out. That will kick ass.
The LS430 uses a system that actually can cool the air but even during hot days with windows open the air wont be super cool. I am surprised the GS doesnt use this system and instead jsut sues the cheaper system which is found in the RL.
I wouldnt knock the ventilated seat feature found in cars simply because the U.S. RL doesnt have it. I use this fetaure all the time in my RL and have tested it on some of the mega hot days we had this summer...even when the air isnt coming out cold it still is better than nothing since it is cooler than one's ass & back heating up the seat cushion and seatback as well as the air above the seat.
09-29-2005, 01:53 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by Rob L
The way most of the systems work is they jsut draw the air underneath the seat and blow it through the cushion so if the air insdie the car is warm the air coming form the seat wont be all that cool. However, if the a/c is on then the seats can get very cold.
The best system will be the one that the main seat cooling company (forget their name but they make the system found in the LS430) is designing where the system is actually a mini air condtioner and you will be able to select specific temps for the air coming out. That will kick ass.
The LS430 uses a system that actually can cool the air but even during hot days with windows open the air wont be super cool. I am surprised the GS doesnt use this system and instead jsut sues the cheaper system which is found in the RL.
I wouldnt knock the ventilated seat feature found in cars simply because the U.S. RL doesnt have it. I use this fetaure all the time in my RL and have tested it on some of the mega hot days we had this summer...even when the air isnt coming out cold it still is better than nothing since it is cooler than one's ass & back heating up the seat cushion and seatback as well as the air above the seat.
The best system will be the one that the main seat cooling company (forget their name but they make the system found in the LS430) is designing where the system is actually a mini air condtioner and you will be able to select specific temps for the air coming out. That will kick ass.
The LS430 uses a system that actually can cool the air but even during hot days with windows open the air wont be super cool. I am surprised the GS doesnt use this system and instead jsut sues the cheaper system which is found in the RL.
I wouldnt knock the ventilated seat feature found in cars simply because the U.S. RL doesnt have it. I use this fetaure all the time in my RL and have tested it on some of the mega hot days we had this summer...even when the air isnt coming out cold it still is better than nothing since it is cooler than one's ass & back heating up the seat cushion and seatback as well as the air above the seat.
09-29-2005, 02:08 PM
#77
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Originally Posted by Rob L
Oh and the thread topic does not say "why do you non RL owners think the RL is selling slow?" So pelase dont imply only non RL owners' opinions are worthy or valid. This isn't politics...
Some are calling it "entertainment" and bashing those who are not "intelligent" enough to recognize the RL in the same light as passionate owners do. I have often praised the RLs strong points and admittedly pointed out its week points. I have often posted that there is no such thing as a perfect car and that any purchase necessarily is a compromise between the buyers Needs, Wants, and Budget. In that light this thread seeks to discuss the reasons why many did not see the RL as the appropriate compromise for them.
09-29-2005, 02:12 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by mrdeeno
The M35/45 seats are not ventilated, they are COOLED (probably drawn from the A/C system). It kinda makes you feel like you pissed yourself.
09-29-2005, 02:44 PM
#79
Originally Posted by Rob L
The way most of the systems work is they jsut draw the air underneath the seat and blow it through the cushion so if the air insdie the car is warm the air coming form the seat wont be all that cool. However, if the a/c is on then the seats can get very cold.
The best system will be the one that the main seat cooling company (forget their name but they make the system found in the LS430) is designing where the system is actually a mini air condtioner and you will be able to select specific temps for the air coming out. That will kick ass.
The LS430 uses a system that actually can cool the air but even during hot days with windows open the air wont be super cool. I am surprised the GS doesnt use this system and instead jsut sues the cheaper system which is found in the RL.
I wouldnt knock the ventilated seat feature found in cars simply because the U.S. RL doesnt have it. I use this fetaure all the time in my RL and have tested it on some of the mega hot days we had this summer...even when the air isnt coming out cold it still is better than nothing since it is cooler than one's ass & back heating up the seat cushion and seatback as well as the air above the seat.
The best system will be the one that the main seat cooling company (forget their name but they make the system found in the LS430) is designing where the system is actually a mini air condtioner and you will be able to select specific temps for the air coming out. That will kick ass.
The LS430 uses a system that actually can cool the air but even during hot days with windows open the air wont be super cool. I am surprised the GS doesnt use this system and instead jsut sues the cheaper system which is found in the RL.
I wouldnt knock the ventilated seat feature found in cars simply because the U.S. RL doesnt have it. I use this fetaure all the time in my RL and have tested it on some of the mega hot days we had this summer...even when the air isnt coming out cold it still is better than nothing since it is cooler than one's ass & back heating up the seat cushion and seatback as well as the air above the seat.