Folks,

Given the recent sales of our beloved RL, and seeing the prices at which many of our members have purchased their '07 RLs w/ tech package (between 40k-44k), i am tempted to trade-in my '05 for '07. There is no particular motivation behind this thought right now, other than the fact that for this low a price, why shouldn't i drive a new instead of an old one. I also know that there have been talks about the much anticipated '09 RLs supposed to be out next year. However, i wanted to get your thoughts on this baseless idea of mine?

TIA

 

I'm always a fan of trading.

I just like new so much better than used, even if I'm the one who used it. Of course, you have to be able to "justify" it, but one man's justification is another man's lunacy.

The fact remains, though, that RL prices are at silly lows, and when the new one ('09?) comes out, I can almost guarantee it won't be discounted to any significant degree for quite a while. I'm looking at the upcoming restyle with great interest, since I'll probably be in the market again by the time it hits. If it's a disappointment for some reason, I might just go ahead and snag an '08.

The trade-in value of your '05 will of course be a factor, and the discounting has obviously affected the trade values. But the RL is a proven vehicle, and a new one is an excellent value.

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couldn't have put it better myself Mike

the one thing i am debating on is whether to go for 07/08 now, or to wait till 09 and follow your lead

 

As a recent data point - we paid $44K flat for an 07 with CMBS/PAX, trunk tray and wheel locks, earlier this month. Had to pay $360 to get it shipped from the dealer in Palm Springs to the SF Bay Area as nobody else had anything in the colors (white/parch, platinum/taupe, desert/parchment) we wanted. Ended up with Platinum/Taupe - very pretty car.

As far as the resyle, I would not want to buy such a hi-tech car the first year it out. Let the early adopters bleed!

 

So for X$ more, you get no OnStar, but you get a rear view camera, an MP3 port, an upgraded nav disc, and a better screwed together car, with most if not all of the 05 TSB applied, low mileage, new tires, new warranty...might be worthwhile, especially if you can get a good trade in deal.

Of course only you can tell if it is worth it...I think at some point the emotional/enjoyment aspect can be just as important as the financial aspect. We all don't need to be driving RLs, we want to. If finances ruled, we would all be driving used Corollas or something, with those wooden beads on the worn out upholstery.

 

it allows you to drive new without spending much more $. Especially if you trade and always have a payment like i do. I was considering the same towards an 08 with my current 06, becuse it also allows you to start fresh. If I got a new one I would add the Ventureshield due to salt, road debris chips on hood and broken fog light(1st week). I would also sell back the stock rims and tires back to the dealer and apply that to 18"ronjons with Michelin pilot A/S. I did do the tires when I took delivery of my 06, but I didn't do the rims, because i didn't know that 17" aftermarket rims would be so hard to find.

 

FOR REAL!!!!!

I called up a local dealer here, and he quoted a whopping 53k for 07 tech+CMBS/PAX... i asked him to stop kidding around and give me a price that will make me want to come see him... he said, he can't go lower that this on their flagship car... i hung up the phone....

 

during one of my regular service visits to a dealer, i was informed that the new alloy wheels on '07 TL-S (the ones that have many spokes... the look hot.. wish i can find a picture for it), fit RL. A couple of RL folks have actually done it, and have been extremely happy with the new aggresive stance of RL...

 

Don, thank you for the important data point. Did you have to negotiate hard on getting the price to $44k? I ask so that i can go in prepared tomorrow

 

correction: the wheels were from '08 TL-S... open spoke design, dark-metallic finish

 

Be patient, get quotes via internet from a several dealers and see what if a wider viewpoint of the market will help.

I got my 06 CMBS for $42054 (including destination and processing, but not TTL), but it was one of the last on the lot, and it was at the end of the month in November, and I had been working with four dealers via internet and telephone to see who would give me a reasonable deal. Two refused to go below 48K, and two were fighting tooth and nail to get my business. One was hounding me up to two weeks later, offering to match the other dealer's price, plus give me free oil changes.

That was 2006 with the $4K marketing support, not the $3.5K now. On the other hand luxury cars were not nearly so much in the toilet as they are now with the subprime mortgage crisis putting the brakes on car sales.

 

I got my 07 cmbs for $45k in April. I added almost 3k in accessories, plus another $3k+ for TTL and I was back near $53k. But that was when the $3k dealer incentives were going. Not sure if that money still available?

 

Thanks Chas & Mikey.

I spoke with two local dealers (via internet) and there seem to be no '07 RL w/ cmbs/pax within the 4 states around GA in the color combination i want (black on tan)!
And per them, dealer incentives are valid only for '07 RLs.

Does this forum have official vendors (other than CL6, who i think is working for a german company now) in other states who can assist me?

 

Try searching with AutoTrader. I just did a quick scan and came up with about 45 RL's with CMBS in the country. That's not even close to a complete list. Your car is probably out there still. Not all dealers list color on AutoTrader (they want you to call them) but some do.

Keep in mind, bringing a car in from out of state can get expensive PLUS it makes the deal less "tasty" for the dealer. That's the reason they are probably not willing to negotiate much with you. They want to sell the 07's on THEIR lot, not someone elses.

If you really want a particular color combo in this rather rare trim package, you have to realize the odds are against you getting the car at a good deal. You might be better off waiting a few months and go after an 08. The incentives might be back on for 08's by then. Even if they are not, try walking into your favorite dealership -- on a Wednesday -- in late December -- in the RAIN -- and open your checkbook. You won't have to work too hard to get the best deal they have.

 

I knew going in what a good price would be that would leave them a little profit (before holdback).

I called up the sales manager (his name was on the dealer website) and just flat asked him if he would take $44K cash for the Platinum/Taupe RL with CMBS & PAX.

"Would you go $45K"

"Nope - $44K + T&L and shipping."

"Well - it ain't making no money sitting on the showroom floor - OK - $44K"

I have used this technique before - Know what invoice is (in this case invoice -minus incentives) and go straight to the sales manager, without talking to anybody else, and make an offer just over invoice.

This is the fourth car I have brought that way. If it is a popular car (not an issue with the RL) it helps if it is late in the month, even more if it is the end of a quarter and even more if it is about 30 minutes before closing time.

 

Calvin, I too have perpetual new car fever. Many thought I was nutz to trade my 18 month old TL for the RL. I have no regrets. It much more car to justify the cost differential (even if many disagree with the TL vs. RL stats on paper).

Now trading an 05 RL for an 07/08 RL has some interesting points to consider:

1) Obviously the cost differential...only YOU can determine the true worth of that.

2) Is there any of the early 05 bugs in your RL you wish to step out of? It seems many of them were resolved in TSBs and by the 06 model year.

3) If you get an 07/08, will you NEED to jump on the 09? Are you likely to be tempted? At least there are no significant changes in the 05-08 RL other than some content / packaging shifting.

4) If you get an 07/08 to get the PAX/CMBS package, are you likley to hold the car as is? Will the next year 09 make you regret it? (we can only guess at the potential hind sight) - similar to your feelings on the 05 not having th PAX/CMBS.


I personally am thrilled my 06 RL is not being 'trumped' by new car features and styles in the current RL model run. I am hoping I won't get itchy for a new one until at least the second year of the next model change. I would be pleased if that holds me into 2010..which for me is a long haul with a vehicle.

And should the next RL be fugly, or US built, I may be holding onto my RL much longer. I see it being handsome at 10 years as I see LEGENDS handsome still.

 

Calvin, as far as official dealers on AZ, we do have one, the link is at the top of every page...DCH Montclair Acura. They're in NJ, if you're willing to drive north of the Mason-Dixon line if the deal is successful.

 

I grew up a couple miles from that dealership. Verona HS was our main rivalry.
Montclair Acura is on Bloomfield Ave in Verona just outside Newark. Montclair is the next town over so I'm not sure why it's in Verona but called Montclair Acura.

Remember, that's Soprano's country. Bloomfield Ave is where most of the streetscape scenes for that show were filmed. Watch your back buddy!

Just kidding, it's a nice area. You could fly into Newark Airport and drive there in about 20 minutes. Then jump on the NJ Turnpike and ride straight back south down 95. It actually wouldn't be that bad.

 

This is the age of Internet Shopping! You can always contact them to search for your desired configuration. They can always have it shipped to Montclair for delivery or closer to YOU (always for a fee). I would make contingent on delivery that you drive / inspect the car before accepting.

 

Thanks neuron.. given that fall is just around the corner, i wouldn't mind going up to NJ if i get to see the fall colors in their full swing

 

Thanks Tampa... The search continues...

Btw, i am slated to test-drive the '08 BMW 535 RWD this week. I will be more than happy to share my experience. I wonder if any of you folks have had a chance to do so. If so, i would love to hear your thoughts. I spoke with a local BMW dealer internet sales manager. It was interesting to know that he moved to BMW after spending 6 years at a local Acura dealer. So, him and I started talking, and his views were similar to CL6 (and some other former Acura-guys) with respect to survival of Acura brand in general!

 

I am not sure if you folks have had a chance to test drive the new '08 535 RWD (and 550 RWD) yet; and if you haven't, i would seriously recommend it.

From whatever little i know of cars, the 535 is undoubtedly comparable (if not better) to RL. Industry's best Navigation (RL), Industry's best Voice Recognition (RL) and 6-CD in-dash changer are probably the only features which 5-series does not offer. 5-series handles high-speed (and sharp U-) turns better than RL. Active steering in 5-series makes driving pleasurable (stiff at higher speeds, feather-touch at lower speeds). Bluetooth supports downloading of phone address book (no more manual creation of phonebook entries). Backup camera offer greater resolution than RL. The optional 20-way power seats are to die for! Rear heated seats, heated steering wheel and rear-side airbags are not available in RL at all. Lane departure warning is also a nifty feature in 5-series. Head-up display and IR camera which were previously available only on 7-series are now optional in 5-series. Optional 13-speaker Logic7 systems beats RL's bose system hands down. Active cruise control on 5-series undergoes smooth transitions (unlike M's and to a certain extent RL's). The choice of wheels --- yummmmm ! All this coupled with 4-years of maintainance free offering --- you can't beat that..

Personally, after driving this vehicle, i am so inclined to ditch RL and become a brand whore!

Your thoughts, as always, are welcome :-)

 

Price being no factor, BMW usually ends up being my favorite pick. I think they make a good product.

Of course, since price (value) is a factor, what was the price for this loaded 535 with adaptive cruise and all the gadgets? My RL CMBS was $47.5 after I added all my accessories.

 

All for the low, low price of $65,000. Which we should pay without question because CL6 says we should.

Seriously, BMW's are great cars, just way, way overpriced. And you're paying for the "4 years of free maintnenance upfront" and you better not want to keep it after those 4 years without some serious cash on hand for repairs, brakes, etc.

I can't drive a RWD car in the Northeast anyway with all of the snow and I'd rather trust Honda's AWD system than a German company's anyway.

 

~$56k fully loaded with Cold weather package, premium package and sports package (nice 18" wheels as well). A 3-year lease on it came out to around $800 (a little less). However, the sales person (an Acura veteran for 7-years) told me that because i am an RL owner (his favourite car asides from BMWs), he will notify me when BMW puts up x'mas time lease specials. He expects the pricing to go down to under $700 during that time! (then it would be roughly about the same as my RL monthly payments!).

 

...and that's when they always loose me and I walk out of the showroom with a weird twisted look on my face. If it was truly $56k then I'd have to reconsider. I'll look again next time around, but somehow the math never works out.

 

That's why +70% of BMW 5-Series cars are leased, because the MSRP is so ridiculous.

 

After looking at the detailed pricing sheet, I do apologize for causing a bit of confusion. I test drove 2 535. $56k was for the one with all packages but no nav+acc. Adding those two plus iPod adapter bumped the price to around ~61k (so closer to dwboston's figure).

 

Also, my local BMW dealer is a bunch of pricks. Really no negotiating on the price. So, I'm left with my checklist. The BMW 535 and Acura RL both had most of the pluses when I compared the competition. The 5 handled much better and is a better looker IMO. The RL is more reliable and has better technology.

Then I look at the price differences. End of analysis.

 

Open and shut case eh Yes, the BMW guys are known for not negotiating. And if you think about it, they have no reason to. The sales# speak for themselves.

If i do decide to go with 5-series, this will be my first forray into leasing realm. I am still not sure if leasing is the right way to go (cuz after 3-years of making payments, all you get is zilch). And i know Mike will be all over me on this one

 

If you like to take out a 4-5 year loan and trade it in every three years, then it's really no more expensive then buying. Of course, you have the added risk of being locked into a contract, however, if you think about it, your locked in for the first 3 years anyway on a purchase since trading in before then would cost you the same amount of money as the lease early termination fee.

Having said that, all things being equal, I still rather buy, especially since I usually keep my cars for 4-5 years and take out a 4 year loan. That scenerio is definitely cheaper .

 

Hmmm. Something to consider the next time I'm out car shopping. As much as I hate thinking solely about the payment when purchasing a car, a lease of the 535 for, say, $700 a month for three years doesn't sound too shabby. Is that for the 535xi (AWD) or the 535i so we are comparing apples to apples? Just curious.

Thanks for the comparo!

 

I myself am all for buying. The 3 cars that i have had the pleasure of owning (not counting daddy money and gifts) so far, have all been BUYS and have been kept for duration of 4-6 years. This is one of the reasons why i am very skeptical of LEASING. At the same time, i have to admit that i have not yet done my homework wrt BUY vs LEASE, because it was impregnated in my grey cells that LEASING is bad.

 

Twin-turbo 300hp 535i RWD. And this is why i was surprised to conclude that handling of the RWD is almost equal to (if not better than) that of the RL SH-AWD. However, YMMV wrt driving comparision, because in the end, its all a matter of perception :-)

 

btw, one of the local Acura dealers called me back. He is quoting $48k for '08 OBP/tan RL w/ tech (no cmbs/pax). In your humble opinion, is it worth trading my beloved 05 RL for, at that price point, given that invoice on it is ~$45k?

 

Obviously, leasing isn't bad. It's just another way of obtaining something. If monthly expenses are tight and you need to get into this car then leasing can be great.

Problem with leasing is; (assuming you are not getting any great lease deals) it will probably be cheaper in the end to buy.

Problem with buying is; you gotta buy the WHOLE car upfront and pay the sales tax up front.

Looking at it in business terms; Buying a car puts more of burden on your monthly cash flow, i.e. your Income and Expense statement looks worse. But, in the end, your balance sheet will be better with a fully paid asset with years more of usable life.

Of course, some would argue (sticking with the business theme) that the monthly cash saved with a lease is working capital and can be invested elsewhere and generate income. That's true. In fact, that's exactly why businesses typically lease depreciating assets. I know I do it with all my computer servers. Unfortunately, you probably don't run your personal finances like a business. I know I don't. You also probably don't have the tax advantages enjoyed by a business. If you reduce your monthly payment by $200 with a lease, chances are, you're going to spend that $200 on something else. It's just reality. Personal expenses are driven more by emotions then financial logic. If you're not like that then congratulations, you're one in 1000

Bottom line; Leasing is a cash flow tool, not usually a way to save money. But, watch out for those killer lease deals. They're out there some times.

 

Hey Calvin

Check out this CNET review on the 535 (if you haven't already seen it).

http://reviews.cnet.com/sedan/2008-b...&tag=pdtl-list

Generally a very good review from a tech perspective. They test drove the $61k equipped version

 

Thanks for the link Mikey. I had taken a brief look at cnet review of '08 535i before consenting to a test drive, to guage what i was up against. However, the one thing which i did not notice, and was pleasantly surprised to see in the review (now that i am re-reading it), is auto-routing to avoid traffic. In the city of my residence, that feature in and of itself is worth the trouble of switching! Now if only my bank a/c statement went into 3 digits