Deciding between a Lexus GS 350 AWD and an RL. Any thoughts?

The RL I test drove was Cobalt Grey, which I like. It was the only one with the Tech Package in that color on the lot. But it has 325 miles on it. Seems like a lot for a "new" car. Should this be worth any additional discount?

Also - thinking about leasing as I may like to get something else in 3 year. Based on other posts I've seen, doesn't seem remotely worth it. Buying seems like a much better deal. Does the $3500 marketing support come into play on a lease?

 

We just went through this too. The GS350 AWD's trunk is miserably small, wouldn't hold much of our luggage at all, and this was the deal killer for us. The inside is rather small too. I like that the RL is the top of the Acura line, while the GS 350 AWD isn't. Plus, the styling of the RL blows it away in my book. Our car we bought today only had 16 mi on it. I don't think 325 mi would be a deal killer for me at all, but I'd look for a discount if they're willing.

Good luck.

Steve R

 

What did you guys think of the driving experience bewteen the RL and GS?

Steve, had the trunk been bigger would that have made a difference?

Yeah, I know I need to make my own decisions, but it's interesting to hear other's thoughts.

Vandy: I don't know about a lease since I plan on buying. No ideas if the residual is changing, but I would assume that the marketing support could be used to determine purchase price for the lease. I have read though that the residual on the GS is dropping by quite a bit making the leases much less attractive.

 

I know I'm not Steve, but I'll chime in with my RL vs GS300 experience as we looked to replace a 1995 Legend L Sedan last year.

My wife really (really) liked the styling of the GS having seen them on the road, and didn't much care for the RL. I thought the GS was somewhat striking, but always had my eye on the RL. We test drove each car we were interested twice - once with the family and once without (there were other cars we drove, but I'll stick to these two).

My wife went to each test drive with 2 perspectives -- first, which car did she like emotionally (styling, "cache", and other intangibles). The second was in which car did she like being a passenger (practicality & comfort & price). I did all my drives with a focus on driver comfort, ride and handling, practicality, and features.

She liked the GS emotionally, but not from a practicality/comfort standpoint, for which the RL topped both our lists. For me, the RL offered superior driver comfort, more features for the money, better interior room and practicality, and a better driving experience.

There is certainly nothing wrong with the GS, and I'll be the first to stipulate that they are both really nice cars. They still catch my eye. Since we're talking about the trunk and interior space, I'll give my perspective in this area.

Try this. Go between a GS and an RL. Adjust the driver's seat to your liking and put your elbows on the armrest in each car. I found the more central seating position of the RL gives great elbow room with a nice flat surface to rest your arms, and a sturdy handle to grip. The GS is kind of cramped, and the armrest is somewhat curved, making it harder to get comfortable. There is nothing to grab onto in the GS, other than the little scoop where you pull the door closed. Visibility in the RL was better, as was trunk space.

There are many aspects to deciding on a car. The interior/trunk of the RL played a factor for me (and my wife) in choosing the RL over the GS.

Hope this helps.

Rob144

 

I like the GS 350 and would be happy with it. I test drove it and it's actually faster than the RL, it's attractive, lux steering wheel is standard, nice interior, Lexus has the best service, great sound system, well built car.

Negatives: PRICE- it's got to be $10K in a features comparison to the RL right now. I found the driver's position cramped- and I'm only 5'11" and 190#. Trunk is teeny tiny- can't fit a set a golf bag in there if placed parallel to the wheel axles. In December, 2006 XM wasn't available yet.

I just like the RL better.

 

This simply amazes me, that the RL isn't one of the most popular luxury cars selling right now, in the $50k range. I liked the GS styling at first, then decided it's too thin, the trunk's a joke and in the end, the styling wore on me. The RL actually seems much fresher and more interesting looking. I just love the way it looks inside and out, and and utterly perplexed why dealers have to sell it so cheap to "get rid of them".

Compared to what was out there in the $50k range of what we personally drove, it wasn't even close. The Lexus looked cheap to us compared to the luxuriant RL.

Totally biased now that this in our garage



Cheers,
Steve R

 

I wa almost able to pick up a killer deal (at dealer cost due to them phucking something else up for me) on a GS with some low miles. Lack of trunk space and the particular color didn't due it for me. I did really like the interior though.

 

RL with SH-AWD is more of a drivers car compared to the Lexus.

 

I've had a GS300 (1994-2004) and loved it. Didn't like the 2nd generation.. and really like the 3rd generation. But it came down to cost for me.

If I could have gotten a GS 350 (Definitely the 350...not the 300, because of the extra ponys and Upgraded Nav) ...with ML audio, AWD, Nav, Sunroof, Adaptive headlights, power rear shade...etc....for the $42K I got my RL ... I would be chatting in the Lexus forum right now. I just really had a great experience as a Lexus owner. To the point that I used to tell people I wouldn't drive anything else (I stand corrected).

I've had some small issues with the RL, but reading the GS forums some... it's clear that those owners have their own share of 'issues' with the new GS. No car is perfect. Everything is Cost vs. Features vs. Performance vs. Luxury vs. that "je ne sais quoi"

Give each of those factors a 1-10 score... multiply the one single piece of that equation that's most important to you by 1.5....add them up for each car you're considering... See what you come up with. I bet it's pretty close to your 'gut feeling'

(Disclaimer... there is no scientific basis for that equation... and I've already had 3 glasses of a GREAT Pinot Noir from the Coppola Collection)

 

The RL sells around $42K and the GS350 fully loaded with nav, mark, etc..
($51.3K MSRP) sells for around 46K, at least here in California. So we are talking a 10% difference, I also choose the RL but I see that why someone wouldn't.

 

I've noticed Cali sells for a lot less than the rest of the States. Makes me miss living there a little (San Diego Native).

But I bet you're right...I was looking when they first came out, and they weren't moving off of MSRP here in TN. That turned me off about Lexus a little... that and the fact that the IS and ES both came out with the Next Gen Nav...but they put the outdated version in the 06 GS. Seemed like they were doing it just to give them more selling power for 07 with the 350's engine and Nav.

If I was an 06 GS300 buyer, I would be pretty pissed to see the Nav and HP #'s on the 07.

 

I never understood the GS. Is it supposed to be sportier than the ES but not as old as the LS? I always thought the GS' front looked odd.

When I was studying the GS vs. RL way back when the cars seemed evenly match on paper. How do you feel the RL handled vs. the GS? Did you find the RL to be more responsive?

Not being able to use the Nav while driving would kill any Toyota product for me.

 

Thanks for the messages. Great site here for info. Think I am leaning towards the RL. I am 6'4" and the GS interior is not going to work for me. Interestingly the leg room is slightly more in the GS, but above that it is tight.

The only dissapointment with the RL is the HP. Expected more. I have a 2002 TL-s and it really goes off the line. I will miss that, but all of the other goodies will make up for it.

I will start my negotiations tomorrow. Any thoughts about a "new" car with 325 miles (and counting) on it? It's really bothering me, but the only color on the lot I like. Got to be worth some money off. Would like to work with this dealership but don't want to wait 6 weeks for a delivery on the color I want. Guess we'll see what they say.

 

I'm 5'11" & 190# and felt claustrophobic in the driver's seat of the GS. You might have more legroom but less room for all your other body parts compared to the RL. I do like the GS and would be happy with one- just know I'd be happier with RL.

325 miles is not much- the sales guy is probably always with the driver so none of the those miles were too tough on the car. I realize some people here are incredibly anal about that sort of thing- I think the concern is silly.

That said, the RL with TECH is being sold for $41K-$42K everywhere it seems. That's what people report here anyway. You could also ask for free oil changes and tire rotations. You could ask for free trunk tray, splash guards, wheel locks, all weather mats and wood-like stering wheel.

 

As stated in a previous thread, if you are going to lease, the GS is the only way to go (FYI...there are some minor cosmetic changes to the '08 GS; becoming available in June '07).

If it will be a purchase (ownership 6+ years), the RL has he best value for the dollar at $42.5K.

 

Yes, RL lease rates are awful. Infiniti M35X with 15K miles/year- offered $675/month- no money down- over the phone. TECH AND ADVANCED TECH PACK. No rear TV.

RL is about $550/month.

 

what..... I'm paying $522/mo for my leased '06 TL. I could've gone with the RL! ugggggg...

 

wow.. you know, if the RL's gross weight is reduced to 3500 lbs this thing will fly. I noticed there's always a massive weight increase for having AWD. They need to make titanium axle system. 4000+ lbs a lilly bit too much.

But then... of course the RL is not meant for speed. it is very meaningful car and it's not only for speed. I can definintely appreciate the quality of the material they use on the RL vs. TL. The RL uses premium stuff.

 

Woops. RL is about $750/month with 15K miles. $75/month more than the much more expensive to buy M35X. Acura doesn't want to lease the RL I guess.

 

Why do some RL's have the little fin on the rear roof and some don't?

 

I didn't say I am going to lease. I said I'm currently on lease with the TL, but doesn't mean I'm going to lease again.

 

the 2005's and 2006's have a fin as they have onstar. The 2007's have no fin and don't have onstar.

 

you can lease a m45 sport for a total payment less than $750/mo ($2k down) with 15k miles.

i know...i am leasing an m45 sport for less than $750/mo with 15k miles and only put $2k down.

 

I test drove an 2007 Acura RL also, but I wear polorized sunglasses (prescription) and it is really difficult to see the NAV unit (changing channels, viewing info, etc). All sunglasses are vertically polarized and the LCD screen they put in the 07 Acura RL is horzontially polarized meaning you can't see the screen well.

I talked with the sales team and they noted they will write that down as a concern.

 

I've heard that 2007 and newer Lexus models will not let you change any Navigation or Audio controls once the vehicle starts moving. At least it is for 2007 RX350...my wife just bought a 2007 RX350 and it will not let you control any Nav and audio buttons while vehicle is in motion. I understand this probably is Lexus's decision for safety blah blah blah but it is extremely annoying and definitely will be a deal breaker for me. Besides I like the look and feel of the RL better than the GS.

 

The RL's nav is is so easy to use that I generally do use it while in motion. It takes a couple of minutes to acquire traffic data from XM so I prefer to wait a few moments to get the most accurate routing. One button press, slight twist of the interface knob and two "mouse" clicks get me real-time traffic and an ETA to work. Love it. I would not tolerate a car that locks up the goodies while driving.

BTW the RX350 not only locks up but, insofar as appearance goes, it is shaped like a very large cockroach. [SFX: Speedy Gonzalez singing "La Cucaracha"]

 

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3398

As you can see from the above thread, it's not a consistent concern. I wear polarized sunglasses too and have no difficulty seeing the navi.

Edit: Duh, I didn't see that you'd already posted in that thread.

 

This is true not only of Lexuses but virtually all cars other than Acura and Honda. And IMO it's a MAJOR PITA. Acura is a real breath of fresh air in this respect!

.
.

 

What year is your RL? I think only the 2007 RL's have this issue.

 

I have a 2005 with the same 'issue'. I live with it.

 

Well I went for my Acurazine inspired test drives today of the RL, M35x and GS350 in that order. I had arranged appointments abut 1.5 hours in duration with dealers that were within a mile of other.

First up was the RL. I did not know what to expect, as it was the first car up. They brought out a car with CMBS and PAX. The seats were extremely comfortable with butter soft leather. Much better than my MDX seats. It was like sitting in a lazy boy chair. Took about a 15 mile drive through a variety of roads and on a patch of concrete highway. This is one very quiet and comfortable car. It’s smooth and has good power passing at speed. On the concrete roads, it rode very well and kept the road noise out on what is probably the worst cruising surface. I found myself adjusting the seat a bit during the drive to find a comfortable position. One thing I did notice that invoked memories of the first TL was the resistance in the accelerator. It’s firmer than I am used to. Not good or bad, just firmer. The SH-AWD was not noticeable, as I did not push the car to its limits. It felt very secure on the on ramps and off ramps. On thing that I was disappointed in was the torque off the line. It did not feel like I had an eager car under foot, only a capable one. The RL also drove “big” to me. For a comfortable ride, and a good cruise, no complaints. In my opinion, the RL is the class of Acura. Far superior in materials and finish than any other Acura.

Next up was the M35x. First thing I noticed was the engine noise and exhaust. Seats were much firmer, but still very comfortable. The car felt like it wanted to go. Much more free revving. Road feel was good, but ride was a bit bumpy on rough roads and noise was much more apparent than in the RL. The cooled seats were a nice touch though. The interior was OK, but I think I preferred the RL interior. On the highway, the car seemed like it needed another gear. Road feel was very good and it was fun to drive. Quite a different car in character to the RL.

Last up was the Lexus GS350 AWD. I got lucky and the dealer had one that a customer changed his mind on. Otherwise, these things are hard to find. I really like the styling of the GS. However, it looked so small. The trunk was tiny and the inside would be tight for tall people. In the drivers seat I had to lower the seat to keep my head from touching the roof, and I am far from tall! It had the lowest seating position of all three and a funny hump by the accelerator. Once inside though, it was a very quiet and smooth car. The car was very quick without the noise in the M. Road feel was good but a little dead in straight on driving. It was a typical Lexus, quiet, smooth and luxurious albeit a bit cramped.

Overall the RL is the best value in the bunch at current pricing. However it invoked the least visceral reaction in me. It did everything well, but nothing stood out as I really love this or I really hate this. It is an all around very good car. On a spreadsheet analysis, the RL wins hands down. However, for me this car is an indulgence. I only drive about 6,000 miles a year and my 6.5 year old car has less than 30,000 miles on it and looks like new inside. I will use it for daily short drives when not traveling and weekend cruising. I need some backseat room to cruise with the kids on weekends or else I would buy a Z4 or a Porsche.

I’m not sure I am all that much closer to a decision after driving these cars. If I had a daily highway commute, the RL would be the best choice, hands down. In my case, and for my needs I think I prefer the M or GS with their faults. Lower gas mileage or higher revs are not significant at 6,000 miles a year and I will be the only person with little cargo in the vehicle most of the time.

The RL is very tempting at the current price point, but right now I am leaning towards waiting for a 08 M35 or GS350. I had hoped that I would find a car that I love to drive and still be functional for family trips with some cargo. The MDX is a great vehicle, but hardly fun to drive. The GS is far too small for that. However the RL and M could probably fit the bill. I don’t know how I would fare in a long trip in the M though. Perhaps the noise and bumpy ride would get old.

I really appreciate the information here and will continue to hang out and learn until I decide what to do .

 

Your initial impression of the RL is very similar to my own. Stay tuned...you may have a delayed reaction as I did.

The RL sneaks up on you. Drive it again in a couple of weeks. The RL (Acura Legend) is truly an amazingly beautiful, competent, safe, tech-enhanced, comfortable and overall delightful car. Its design reflects remarkable intelligence. It may not be the fastest off the line, but it seduced me right out of my beloved (and very quick) TL. I am sooo glad too!!

BTW the car feels "smaller" the more you drive it and the harder you punch the accelerator.

 

Noobie,

One other AWD sedan you may want to consider is the Volvo S60R. I currently have the wagon version of this car and I have loved it. The front seats are very comfortable--very nice soft leather interior on the "R". The rear seating is not quite as roomy as the RL, but the acceleration (0-60 in 5.7-5.8 sec for the manual) and the "fun to drive" factor are pretty high. Also the 2007 models can be had for quite close to or even under invoice (right around 40K for a loaded vehicle as I recall). Oh and I have the Nav on my wagon (V70R) and it pops out of the dash and has steering wheel controls, and doesn't lock up while you drive (like the lexus). The nav works quite well but is not as sophisticated as the RL (no real time traffic in the US for example).

I have been cross-shopping the RL with the S60R and the 335i. I have pretty much discounted the S60R because it too similar to the V70R and I want something a little different (we are keeping the V70R but my wife will use it). I am a bit worried about the 335i being in its first model year and their are reports of engine overheating issues related to the position of the turbos. Also it is more expensive and considerably more cramped than the RL. But it is a blast to drive.

 

noobie,
What year MDX do you have? I have heard the 07s with the Sport package drive like a large luxury car. I was contemplating an RL as well (almost bought an 06 in Jan), but the interior is really too small for my needs right now. The back seat was no bigger than our current TL. I am currently leaning towards getting another MDX w/Sport package. Good luck with your decision.

 

Hi midlife: Funny I was looking at the new S80 with V8 and AWD, but for some reason, it just seemed “too old” to me. I used to have a S70, that was a great little car, and very comfortable, but lacked the ommph that the R versions have. My wife really likes Volvos though, and in fact we were on our way to buy a cross country wagon when I talked her into to trying the MDX. We never made it to the Volvo dealer as we bought it after the test drive and a little persuasion from me. She wanted black, I asked are you going to keep it clean … we all know the end to this story.

As far as the S60 goes, I like the car, bit find it too small in back. If I were going for a car that size, I would just pay more and get the GS350. I am very fortunate to be in a position of deciding not whether it’s affordable, but more do I want to pay that for something that I use so little.

Phins2rt: I have a 02MDX that was bought in November of 02 just before the 03s started to hit the lots. The kids beat the crap out of it. I would like to replace it next year, but the kids are still in car seats and they destroy the car, so it’s like why bother. I’d like to try the new MDX, but it’s gotten pricey as a kid carrier, so I’m thinking maybe the new Highlander or next gen Pilot.

We take a couple 1000+ mile trips each year to visit family and it’s always been in the MDX (packed to the rafters). I was hoping to maybe use the new car for some of these as the kids get older and we don’t need to bring things like strollers. It would be much more fun to drive. Perhaps it’s wishful thinking that I can get a vehicle for my daily use and for longer family trips. Maybe, I should just buy a less practical GS350, M35 or BMW.

But the RL keeps coming back as perhaps the best compromise, but who wants a compromise? I would seriously consider an LS460 if we would get the use out of it, but it would make more sense when the kids get older.

I think I’ll take my wife out for some test drives and make it more confusing. However we should all have such tough problems as what car to buy in our lives. I should not complain.

 

Boy, I've done more searching through old threads and I guess my reaction is very common with neuronbob's and Mike_Tx's as well as VOdocs.

What sums it up for me is great prime steak, but where's the sizzle? I guess it's a good thing I read the threads after the test drive to get my own opinion. What I take from this is that the car really grows on you, perhaps as opposed to the other way where it starts to annoy. I guess that's a concern with the M and GS. Am I going to get tired of the noisy bumpy ride in the M or the cramped quarters of the GS. On the other hand is the RL, going to leave me satisfied but uninspired.

 

Thanks for the opinion on your test drive experiences. You are definitely putting time into your research.

If you found my threads on my two RL test drives, you'll see that the car grew on me. It took two test drives to convince me--very unusual for me.

What you find is that the RL is a compromise, every bit as much so as the TL I owned before that. You have to put up with low torque off the line......but it takes just pushing the go-pedal a little further to get those revs above 3k. You have to put up with the conservative styling....but for someone like me, I love a car that doesn't scream "I have MONEY! Come and carjack me!". You have to put up with the slightly soft suspension....no you don't, you get an A-Spec suspension or simply change to better tires like the Pirelli Nero Zeros. And so on...

For my needs, the RL won because it does enough for me at the price. I will admit, I did come close at one point to pulling the trigger on the M.

 

noobie:
Vodoc is right. You will be thinking about the RL more than you would like to admit. I love manuals and was only interested in the TL, however since driving the RL, I can't get it out of my head. And I really do not like to drive automatics.

BTW, I had the same experience with the RL as you. Not too quick, but great interior and amenities. I'm still on the fence though.

midlifecrisis:
Shhh!!! Don't let the Volvo R secret out of the bag. I drove the S60R manual a while back while the wife's car (S70 T5) was in for service. The R cars have the best seats on the planet. The R cars (manuals) are a blast! Those V70R manuals are extremely hard to come by unless you do the OSD.

 

Bob,

What's your view on how the A-Spec improves road feel on the car. Granted, tires play a big role, but how would you say it handles and more importantly feel compared to the M35. I just really liked how the M transmitted the road and felt like a nimble and quick car. Did ride quality suffer any? If I go with an RL, I would ask them to do the A-Spec on delivery and keep the stock wheels and tires.

And if you think your TL was a compromise, man you don't have an Infiniti I30. I bought that car in one afternoon out of necessity. Not posh enough to be a Lexus and not sporty enough to be a TL. Good reliable car ... YAWN. I don't want another yawner!

I just read some comparisons that Acura dealer gave me and they say the RL is quicker than the M35 to both 60 and 100 as well a 30 to 70. It's strange because the M "feels" quicker. Does anyone have definitive stats on that?

I keep vascillating back and forth and although I originally discounted the RL, I keep thinking about it. It's really interesting, I darn near fell in love with the Lexus GS styling and the creature comforts and ride to the point that if the guy offered me $1000 over invoice I would have bought it. After cooling down a bit I'm thinking, man that thing was tight and the hump you have to put your right leg over, how's that going to feel after a few hours. Back seat is tiny and has no head room and the trunk can't fit anything in it. Becasue of those virtues, the GS would be my driving car only, not really useful for the family. I really should buy a Porsche Caymen instead

Any way I slice it the RL will be anywhere from $5-7k less than either car

 

Noobie,

Can't be certain since I've never driven it...the M may feel quicker because you hear more engine and road noise. Certainly the RL felt slower than the TL at first, yet it has plenty of power. It is so serene that you will be doing 85 before you realize it. Don't know if traffic is an issue for you but if it is, the NavTraffic rocks.

For a kid-hauler there is nothing that beats an Odyssey. Once they're about 4 or 5 years old and in booster seats, you just let them in the automatic side door, they get in by themselves, strap themselves in...it's a beautiful thing.

Best of luck with your decision! Sounds like you're sick of the Infiniti. Don't blame you there.