miner

My local Acura dealer has some 'balls'. Since 2003 I have purchased 4 new cars (2 TSXs, 1 RSX-S, 1 RL). I have had all of my service done by him on all 4 cars. I asked about a quotes for my RL - body kit & A-Spec suspension, parts and labor. I mentioned I have 3 other area dealers giving quotes, too, but I would really like to keep my business with him. I was looking for best $$$ quote. His quote came back at $4420 - $2995 parts and $1180 labor. Geez, I feel like a prostate exam without the lube. This almost p1sses me off after all the mullah I have spent with them.

Am I overreacting?

lumpulus

Nope, but you shouldn't be surprised.....Take your business elsewhere, and let him know why, and that you're telling all you Acura owning friends too about him.

LuvMyTSX

What were the other dealers' quotes? We need a comparison, but yeah, it sounds high.

neuronbob

A little financial analysis. I assume you are looking at the A-Spec body kit and suspension, without the wheels.

If you buy the parts yourself:
eBay: Body kit $1170 when available, suspension $650, total=$1820
My dealer's install cost for A-Spec suspension=$330, probably about the same for body kit which I didn't have done. Total: $2480

Compare this with MSRP:

Body Kit: $662 front spoiler installed, $498.80 rear spoiler installed, $702.80 side spoilers installed, $492 rear lip spoiler installed. Total=$2355.60 (numbers from Acura online store)

A-Spec suspension: $900-1000 (estimated based on previous convos with dealer) with $600 install, estimate $1600.

Total for both at MSRP: $2355.6 + $1600=$3955.60

So......yes, your dealer plans to give you a bath with the price you've been quoted. However, you can do what I did. Ask your service manager--after all, you DID have four Acuras serviced there--how much install would cost if you bought the parts yourself. If it's reasonable, buy the parts, have them drop-shipped to the dealer if you want, and save $$$. You don't have to jeopardize the long-term relationship with your dealer in doing this.

In other words....a little haggling doesn't hurt.

HTH!

TampaRLX-SH

The Parts Department of every dealership is a major profit center. Especially for parts that are 'accessories'.

I have a great rapport with my dealer & service manager. They know I have bought the parts elsewhere and in some cases paid them to install. They know, I know that the Parts department is not competitive in pricing. I don't mind paying for the tech to install (I always request the same tech when making service appointments). So we both win. Just the Parts Department loses my business.

Some things I did not buy from Parts:

Filters, Cabin and Engine
Wood Wheel
Wood Shift Knob
Touch Up Paint

Is there Service Advisor open to you buying the parts elsewhere and quoting you for install only? If he wants to maintai your Service business, he may be willing to forgoe the Part Department.

neuronbob

Great minds think alike, Tampa.

The only part I bought from my dealer was the backup camera. All my other Acura accessories were eBayed--A-Spec suspension, A-Spec wheels, A-Spec emblem, rear lip spoiler, wood-look steering wheel, wood shift knob. As I said above, I talked to my service rep and they hooked me up with a decent install price for these parts, no problems.

gcook

You know what I feel about the dealer, and Acura in specific? They really don't have a concept of customer appreciation. I have purchased 4 Acuras, and each time I went back to the last dealer I bought from, and told them I bought from them before, and I will buy from them again if they can give me a good quote.

Each time they give me the worst quote, so I move on. It is funny because we as customers are dying to be loyal to one dealer or business, and they are kicking dirt in our face. It is strange, because I get the feeling that they don't understand customer loyalty. Some of us have manufacturer loyalty, but the individual dealers just don't get it.. too bad for them..

VOdoc

Your comments apply not only to Acura dealers (what a ripoff on the A-spec!!) but to many U.S. businesses. Want a free or subsidized DVR? You'll have to change satellite or cable providers--your own company won't do it. Want a free or subsidized cell phone? Ditto, you're gonna have to change companies.

The customer you already have is way more profitable than you one you might get--why don't they learn??

TampaRLX-SH

DON"T GET ME STARTED!!!

My RL is in this weekend for a service visit, new steering wheel controls and apparently the AcuraLink receiver is being replaced. As I mentioned in another post, the trim strip on my rear bumper was attacked by a rogue shopping cart which I have decided to replace.

I asked my Parts Dept for a quote on the trim stip. $127.46. I looked online for Acura parts... $86.14. A little Googling, and I got it for $46.69 with 2 day DHL.

So when I dropped off my RL I spoke with my tech and asked if the trim piece was something I could do myself. He said he would do it for me since the bumper cover should be dropped. I told him to put it on my invoice, and he said he had time during his 'lunch break'.

Now THAT creates loyalty. Not because I may save a few bucks, but because one made an effort to acknowledge me and suggest the best effort (the tech) while the parts manager rolled his eyes at me when I said I could get the part from a stranger across country at a better price.

And for the record, the tech will be taking his wife out to dinner on my dime.

lumpulus

The dealer I frequent(due to proximity) will usually match mail order prices for parts, but only after much negotiation and printing of websites as proof.

vladfrenkel

Here is a direct quote from my dealer - San Francisco
"A-spec with 18” inch wheels (choice of gun metal or chrome polished) ,trunk deck spoiler, front bumper spoiler, side under body spoiler, and rear bumper under spoiler for $5,100 parts only. As far as for the labor you will be looking at $1,184.64"

How about that? $4420 total doesn't look that bad of the number at all...

miner

My quote did not include 18" wheels & trunk spoiler - only suspension and under body kit. I bet your quote does not include tires either.

vladfrenkel

Yep, just confirmed it, at least rims does not affect Labor numbers - estimate for labor looks identical !!!

aplato

Maybe, depends on your perspective. Companies are in business to make money. If you told them you are shopping around on them, it reduces their desire to give you a good deal if it isn't a volume item.

I own a company that sells computer networking equipment. When a customer, even a good, loyal one, tells me he is going to hard-shop me around to my competitors, I am unlikely to bend over backwards for them. Why should Why should I lose money. Let my competitor take the deal for low margin.

If this dealership has been so good to you, then you should buy from them and be willing to pay a little more. If all you want is the lowest price, well, you will be treated like a low-price customer. And for many companies, low-price customers are not the best customers.

I have low-price customers as well. And by and large I do not give them my best service. I give them good, or adequate service. I reserve the best service and the cut-rate deals for the customers who trust me and realize that my diligence and expertise is worth a little more money.

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

If you have the basic tools, the body kit shouldn't be too hard. Usually if you ask, they can provide you with the installers instructions and it's maybe a half days work at that. That will save you a few right of the bat.

lumpulus

Maybe you would get more customers if you gave great service to ALL.

I work in the IT business arena too, and I've got more new customers because I give everyone the same service no matter how much they spend, or where they are on the "totem pole" of life.

I had a guy come in once that looked like he slept in his clothes for a week. He was a "low-price" customer as you put it, and he wanted the cheapest product he could get...so I went out back and pulled a refurbed unit, came back, told him he could have it for free, and that it was a refurb, but it would work fine for his needs.

That "low-price" customer just paid for an addition to my house.

When I take my RL in for service, I get treated like royalty..when I take my G/F's RDX to the same place, not so much....that is wrong and really stupid, because the next time I buy a new car(soon) it won't be there, so yeah, it is all about perspective.

miner

The amount of business I have given them and the high prices I pay for their service (I work 65-70 hrs a week - don't have time to do basic service myself) I would expect something better than retial prices (at least a 10% discount on parts) plus the $110/hr for labor. I am not asking for them to loose money. I imagine their profit margin on parts is at least 50% if not more and labor rates, please. They charge book rate even if it does not take tech the entire time to do the work. I expect/deserve a better price than the one-stop shopper off of the street - that's all I am saying. BTW, the other three quotes came back cheaper and I have not done any previous business with anyof those dealers.

Qatar

A-SPEC suspension has a flat labor rate, ask for that, what thier qouting you is probably hourly rate.
My A-SPEC bodykit flat rate labor was $200.00 and suspension was $290.00.
Ask for the flat rate book, hourly rate will cost MORE.

Chas2

Qatar,

You were able to get Radley to install A-Spec for $290?

Did you have to buy the parts through them, or could you furnish the parts via internet dealer, like Curry Acura who charges $650 for the A-Spec suspension?

Thanks.

gcook

whatever.. I wouldn't shop from you then. I care about price and respectable service, that's all. I would expect that if I bought a car from a dealer, and am willing to give them an opportunity to EARN my business again, then they would take advantage of the privilege I am giving them to do repeat business. My point is in sales you should build relationships, and if you don't want to do that, then you don't have a relationship. But the relationship goes beyond the initial sale, as you are going to return for everything, because you feel you have a relationship and you GIVE them your business.

aplato

That's exactly what I mean. You're not loyal, so why should the dealership be loyal? If a dealership gives you bad service, you should tell them that. So they can sharp up and do better next time. If you like the dealership and want to get continuous good service from them, then be loyal to them and tell them they are screwing up. And give them a chance to resolve the solution.

Some of my best customers came out of some of my biggest blunders. But, when I screwed up, the customer told me and I immediately fixed the problem. If that customer had just sulked away and never told me - I wouldn't have ever known they weren't satisfied.

Likewise, if you're going to hard-shop your dealership for every car you buy, then it stands to reason that you're not a big profit center for them. You're not giving them an opportunity to win the business. You're just demanding a cheap price. There is more to buying a car than price - convenience, honesty, relationship, etc.

The auto dealership market is very competitive. And competition is good for customers. But, with increased competition comes a strong pressure for dealerships to offer more at lower costs. Part of that process is profiling customers. Most larger businesses do some type of customer profiling.

Typically, this means breaking down customers into one of a few profiles. Low-price customers are rarely the best customers. They aren't loyal and they tend to demand a lot and return little. This is why many companies refuse to enter the consumer market. End consumers are too demanding and its not profitable enough.

With higher-end products (like Acuras), the market is a little more sophisticated, but the same principles apply.

Next time you're in the market for a car (or accessories), try this out. March into a dealership and demand the absolute lowest price. You'll probably get either shuffled around or ignored. However, if you play coy and don't reveal your hand right away, you'll keep them on their toes. They won't know if you're a big spender or a price shopper until its too late.

gcook

You are an idiot. All only read was your first sentence and that put me off of your long winded diatribe. I don't deserve your service so presumably this is what you consider your OK service not your Great service which you reserve for people who are loyal. I just can't. You are retarded. Sorry... I can't even respond to this anymore.. This is my last comment on your retarded logic and discussion. It is absurd. Poor you and all the unloyals you have to deal with, sad sack.. It is so sad. I wouldn't be surprised if you worked for Acura or some other dealership. Your argument is illogical. We are talking about car dealerships.. technically it is not real sales anyway... it is shady bs.. Since you are so loyal, I have an undercarriage spray, a leather protectant, a pro pack, a paint protector and whole bunch of other stuff I want to sell you.. I am done with this thread.

robarsan

Sorry for being a little OT, but I need to blow off some steam. I just happen to look at an online credit card statement and noticed a $40 late fee because they received the money 1-day after the due date. Note: This payment was also less than 4-weeks since my last payment. I never had a late payment in the 10 years I've been with this company. When I called to complain, I was given the company policy BS...late payment nets late fee; period. When was the couple day grace period banished? I spiked the phone, sucked down a beer, and called back to cancel my account(s). They of course asked why I was cancelling, and said they would be more than happy to remove the late fee if I would keep the accounts. I'm keeping the accounts.....for now.

I think company loyalty is a lost concept.

Thanks.............I feel better now

shepsan

During the period from 1999 to 2005 I bought a new RL each year from the same dealer on Bell Road in Phoenix. I paid cash for each new RL. The one's I replaced were sold to private parties.

All oil changes,filters, tire changes etc., were done at that one dealership.

Every time I purchased a new RL, I had to deal with a new salesman because the last one that had served me no longer was employed at that dealership.

In 2006, I asked to see the sales manager. I told him that I wanted to deal with him only and that I wanted him to give me the best deal he could.

I told him that I felt that since I was a "good" customer and had spent almost $250K at that dealereship during the past few years, I might get a deal I could not refuse, I told him, that if the price was not bottom-line, I was going down the street and instad of an RL was going to purchase an Infiniti M45.

The sales manager gave me a price higher than what Edmunds, KBB and an out-of-town dealer had published for the RL.

I left without the RL and bought the Infiniti. In 2007, I sold the Infiniti and went back to the Infiniti dealer to buy a new M45. As was the case with Acura, the salesman I had bought the M the year before was no longer there.

The new salesman gave me a price that I though was too high. The sales manager would not budge.

I went down the street again and bought a Lexus.

I am a carbuff. I like new cars. I buy new cars quite often; from 12 months to 18 months. I have spent a lot of money doing so. One would think that a dealership would want to have me as a customer. The reverse is true.

The dealerships go through new owners and replace salesmen as a routine rather than an exception. Building long-term relationships does not appear to be a part of their business plans.

I have begun research looking for a replacement for my 2007 Lexus. I have no idea which dealership will best serve me. This time, I am going COUPE.

neuronbob

Hey shepsan, good to see you back. I would think having a customer like you would be a HUGE deal for a dealership. I guess not. I don't think this concept is isolated to auto dealerships, though. It goes along with the lost art of respecting your fellow man. That concept has been lost in this country over the last few decades. That is another topic for another forum, however.

lumpulus

Excellent post shepsan, and it points out exactly why dealerships are viewed in such a negative light.


aplato..Trust me, when the dealer gives me bad service, they are informed of it, by me, immediately. Not once, have they any of them tried to "make it right" on the spot,and not only that commited the same error more than once, when I gave them "one more chance".

If a dealership, or any other product or service provider for that matter, gives me good or excellent service, I tell all my friends and coworkers...conversley, I tell them if I get bad service as well.

aplato

You're obviously a different kind of customer. You want the best deal and will go looking for it. I would guess that at least some places figure this out and that's why they don't give you the best price. They don't need the sale bad enough and they can wait for the next guy, who will pay the price they are charging.

I realize many people here enjoy calling me an idiot and stupid, but when I do a deal with a company I try to look at both sides of the arrangement. No dealership in the world is going to sell you a car (or an accessory) and lose money. And if they are losing money, they're idiots and will go out of business. I don't want to deal with idiots. I want a deal that is fair on both sides. If they are making money and I am getting a decent discount, then we can both walk away getting what we want.

If you want respectable service then you should be willing to pay for it. If you ALWAYS want the bargain basement price, then it stands to reason that you're likely get bargain-basement service. If you're okay with that, then good.

Just because you spend $250K over the last few years with a dealer, doesn't mean they OWE it to you to lose money on the next deal. Remember, the dealership probably only kept about $10K of that $250K you spent The remainder went to Honda. So from the dealership's perspective, you're not all that great of a customer. They could make that much on one sucker who pays retail. It took them 5 deals with you to make that much.

So, imagine yourself the salesguy...I can work 1 deal today with this guy, give him a really good deal, and MAYBE get 5 more deals over the next 5 years. Or I can blow him off and wait for a sucker who will pay retail and make a lot more money TODAY.

When sales guys worked at the same dealership for 10 years, maybe the relationship sale worked. But it todays world , with rapid turnover in the sales department - its all the quick buck. And that's why price shoppers don't always get what they want.

I am just offering up an alternative perspective here. Something for everybody to think about. I like getting a good deal as much as the next guy.

Qatar

All the accessories i had were purchased from Ray Lakes Acura. its as simple as i had mentioned, ask for the flat rate.
When you go to the service department, ask for Jeremy. My A-SPEC was installed in 2006, so it might be cheaper now.
Give it a try

neuronbob

It's always good to hear the other side of the coin, even if sometimes we are not quite ready to do so. Thanks for your opinion. I've learned a lot from the salesguys who post here.

dmaster3

I have never gotten even decent service from my Acura dealership. I am 17 and trust me, age does make a difference in the quality of service you are given. My family has bought 2 cars from the same dealership (2006 RL and a 2008 MDX) and we have done all our service through that same dealership, we even bought both cars from the same salesman. Yet, whenever I drive up in my RL for service, I hear comments like "Oh, I wish I could afford a car like that." and other ageism comments. First of all, it makes me feel bad when I hear them saying things like that and then when they "forget" to do a part of my scheduled maintenance and say, "Well, you are going to have to come in at another time because we are booked." it drives me crazy. I expect some ageism when I drive my RL into the service bay but I expect to have my maintenance done too. I just wanted to let you guys know what it is like trying to deal with Acura service when you are 17. It is a pain.

acuralvr1

I'm very happy with my Acura dealer in NJ. I'm happy with them mainly because of the service department- the sales people are okay, but not as professional as I'd like them to be. The service manager and all the service people are great!

I've bought 3 cars from these people in the last 5 years. When I bought my RL a year ago the Sales Manager was surprised that I knew about the incentive that was available. I dealt directly with the Sales Manager because I thought it was ridiculous I had to go back and forth with the sales guy and the manager the last time I bought a car there. He asked me how I knew about it and I told him www.acurazine.com . I had called him 2 months prior to tell him the lease on my TL was nearly at it's end and I was interested in the RL. He had given me a price and I deducted the incentive and we had a deal. He said that the car dealer would've wanted to keep at least a portion of the incentive- with a smile. This is one of the reasons so many of us think car sales is so sleazy.

An unsophisticated customer walks into a dealer and pays sticker for the same exact car I bought for $8k less- or whatever the huge savings for me was at the time. That''s a great deal of extra money for a commodity- the car I bought is no different than the car tha anyone else buys from any other dealership. Saving a few dollars because someone negotiates a bit is no big deal to me. I have no problem paying extra for service and my loyalty to the seller- but that person spending $50K for a car I spent $42K has been ripped off in my opinion.

How about the guy that walks in and buys a grand piano for $42K because "he's a good negotiator" and did a great deal of research. I walk into the same store and pay $50K for the same piano because I'm ignorant when it comes to pianos. I certainly would feel ripped off.

Since I was buying my third car from the dealer I was given preferred treatment although they would have been happy to sell the car to me for more money.

I do buy parts from a dealer in New York and I have the service dept. at my dealer install these parts for me; i.e. mud flaps, spoilers, side mouldings, wood steering wheels, etc. I've told their parts department to match the price of the New York dealer but they won't do so.

I'm sure that almost all the people here know that the automobile lobby was able to prevent car manufacturers from selling cars on the internet and directly to the public. Had this happened many car dealers would've gone out of business.