According to C&D, with the arrival of the new RL one car will be on the chopping block.

The flagship will sit atop a three-sedan product line. Currently, the company offers the TSX, the TL, and the RL. With the addition of the ILX and the confirmation of a replacement for the RL, that makes it likely that either the TSX or TL is on the chopping block. An alternative scenario sees the RL name dying off, with the new flagship wearing TL badging. In that case, the TSX—which is derived from the European Honda Accord—could hang around, with the ILX serving as a gateway to the brand.

The latter approach makes a little more sense—TL and TSX are arguably the most recognizable names in the Acura car family—but it strikes us as a little confusing. The ILX is being introduced as a low-cost entryway to the Acura brand; wasn’t that the point of the TSX when it originally launched? The first-gen car, having been bred to compete with the Ford Mondeo and lesser BMW 3-series models in Europe, was a precise handler and perfectly sized. Had this generation of TSX/Euro Accord not grown, there wouldn’t be a need for something smaller. But it did grow—into something a bit disappointing.

The TL has succeeded as Acura’s mainstay sedan for more than a decade in spite of having a forgettable alphanumeric name. It really is the modern-day Legend, and it seems like a mistake to cancel one of your better-known products. But it’s large, quite powerful, and offers all-wheel drive; with the new, bigger flagship on the way, what’s the point of keeping it?

In explaining the too-close positioning of the present-day RL and TL, an Acura product planner told us, “We made the same mistake twice.” (The first being the overlap of the Vigor and Legend in the 1990s.) Let’s hope the current sedan restructuring isn’t a third time


http://blog.caranddriver.com/acura-r...x-to-get-axed/

 

So much speculation, I'm going back to ramblings to finish this coffee.

 

I do not think that 3 is too many, think BMW 3, 5 and 7 series and now they introduced the 1 series. Acura needs to up the quality of the Acura product line to differentiate it from Honda, yes the TSX is an EU Accord but it still feels like a Honda. Even the TL feels like a bigger Honda with more features. The RL is the only Acura with the quality to put it in a different class and the new one will have the features too.
Numerous cars in all sizes are being marketed with features that were once reserved for the high end vehicles so features is not what it is about, even Ford has all of the toys. Quality of the whole car is what Acura needs to bring up to a higher level.

 

I don't believe they will cut off any of them. If ladder approach and if the new RL is indeed the new TL it wouldn't be until 2015 to come out since this current version TL has only been out for 3 years, and TL generations usually last for 4 or 5 years. and a type s version has yet to come out.

 

Just read this article: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...NEWS/111219983

 

I don't understand why Acura can't have more than 3 sedans, a lot of top tier luxury car companies do, except for infiniti I guess. But there's a possibility of the Legend nameplate coming back. Check it here:
http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1020643
seems a lot more reliable than just speculation.

 

I doubt it, there is a car priced for every budget, most 25 yearolds cant afford an RL, but want a nice car, so they opt for the tsx / tl

 

I'm sorry, but that has to be pointed out...


What is this ILX? Is that the RSX sedan? And why does your title say 3 sedans, but mention 4?

It is my understanding that the TL has replaced the old RL size class which competes with the likes of the 5 series, E class, and GS. The TSX has replaced the TL and competes with the 3 series (although slightly larger), C class, and more closely the ES. The RSX sedan, from Honda's roadmap, will replace the old TSX and be the entry sedan with a coupe option a la 3 series (which is a much more fitting size comparison). If Lexus can run 3 sedans which are VERY close in size, why can't Honda? The only problem with Honda's lineup is the lack of a long body wheel base that can give the rear leg room of the S class, LS, 7 series, and Equus. Supposedly the new RL will be just that, so the lineup seems pretty complete to me. The key here is not that each sedan has to be a different size than the other. Rather, the key is that each sedan has to have a different price tag than the other.

Say I walk into a car dealer looking for a sedan. I see two that are very similar in size, but I am very frugal with my money. I want a nice car, so I go with the slightly smaller but much cheaper option. Or, I am more free with my money and want a better image than the lesser sedan, so I go with the slightly bigger but more luxurious option. In this instance, size does not matter as much as price tag. Look at the ES and GS. The sizes are nearly identical, but the price tags are not.

Now if you were to tell me Honda had 3 sedans within $5k of each other and similarly sized, then I would say you have an argument. Otherwise, your point is mute.


...oops, I meant moot. :wink:

 

TSX will be going away. The ILX will be built in the US, reducing the price or increasing content at the current TSX price.

I'd imagine the TL will remain 'as is' and the RL will be upsized and more content added along with the new V6 hybrid setup.

 

Until I see it in the flesh, I don't believe a single thing coming from Honda/Acura or any rumors!

That ILX is a Civic LX in disguise and extra "I" so Acura can charge customers more just like the Canadian Acura Civic!

 

that's a sorry ass souped up civic. if any cars acura needs to get rid of that zdx garbage.

 

I think they will drop the TSX for the ILX, which IMO is a bad decision. I just don't see people buying an expensive Honda Civic. And it just seems kind of redundant to have that and the Civic in the market.

I do agree about dropping the ZDX, if they drop the TSX they will be getting rid of one of their most popular and best selling sedans.

 

Yeah, I wish they would keep the TSX as well. Anyhow, this is from vtec.net about the ILX, and Jeff from vtec.net has actually seen the car in person so yeah..

"Acura ILX (long-rumored "Sub-TSX" model)
It feels like it's been an eternity since we first heard about it, but Acura finally revealed this long-rumored "Sub-TSX" model. First, Acura projected some photos of the ILX up on the screen and to be honest, it really didn't look that great in photos. It's a good thing they eventually showed us the car in the sheetmetal because it looks much better in person. The key design element that stood out to me was a pronounced crease starting in the doors and curving up over the rear wheelwell. I'm assuming it was intended to lend the car an image of strength, but I felt that it comes across as a little bit overdone. Also notable (and possibly a little overdone) is a Hoffmeister kink in the C-pillar. Otherwise, it's a good looking vehicle, with finishing details that give it a nice European (yeah, mostly Audi) look and feel. The ILX features a relatively long nose and a stubby rear deck and a high beltline. The front doors are fairly long - almost like a coupe, while the rear doors appear considerably shorter. The taillights are clearly Acura shapes, but for some reason when I was looking at the rear of the car I kept getting a little bit of an Audi A5 vibe. The general proportions probably reminded me most of the previous generation Mazda 3. The prototype had appropriately sized wheels which filled up the fenderwells very nicely. While our assumption is that this car is based upon the Civic platform, Acura never mentioned it, and from the styling and proportions there is essentially no hint that this car is related to the Civic. Acura announced the basic powertrain specs, confirming the rumors that it would be offered in hybrid form (1.5L IMA). Additionally, for those seeking an automatic transmission, the ILX will be offered in a 2.0L 4-cyl flavor (for now we're operating on the assumption that the engine will be an R20), and for the more sporting-minded, a 6-speed manual will be offered, paired with a 2.4L 4-cylinder. Beyond these basic specs, Acura would not comment on power levels or anything of that nature. We're expecting this car to hit showrooms in late spring or early summer of 2012. "

 

you'd be surprised, we see a lot of these around here:

 

i have only seen one csx on the street.

 

Do you go to Canada often? They don't sell them here. I would bet you have not seen an EL on the streets either.

 

I agree...it just doesn't make much sense to introduce a new car that practically mimics the Civic.

 

Whats the point of adding a forth if the 3 that are there aren't really doing that great? I mean I am a big fan of Acura and I think they make great cars, but the public that go out shopping for luxury cars don't even consider Acura anymore. For Acura to add a forth car thinking that it will gain attention doesn't really make sense. It should of added a forth car back when they were doing great, like in 2005 after they released the RL and their sales were high. Now they haven't seen any positive growth in how many years? A forth car just wouldn't really make sense.

 

I dunno, I see more Acuras on the roads of Austin than I do BMW or Lexus. MB and Infiniti are pretty common, but Acura has done well here as of late.

The TL is a very popular car. Especially 3rd Gen.

 

Why not a coupe? WTF Acura? The CL was awesome!

 

So lemme get this straight:

•The beak stays.

•The ZDX stays.

•The TSX dies.

•A dolled-up Civic with a Hoffmeister kink takes its place.

Wow. I'm in awe. Even if the new RL/Legend is a truly great car at the top of the line, it's still not one of the volume models, and they're barely better off than they were before.

The beak alone tells me they still just... aren't... listening. Pity.

 

I don't care for that civic looking thing. if someone is looking for a small very economical car... I don't see many people spending extra to get an Acura version of the civic. the people who will pay a premium for a little car want something that looks UN-like the little cheap cars. a 1 series does not look like a "cheap" car. that little Lexus hatchback... does not look like a corolla.... it may be based on one.. but it sure doens't look like one.

Acura needs to make the little civic thing look more like a mini TSX and less like a souped up civic.

I don't see any real problem with Acura adding a smaller more entry level car... I think they can do better than that car.. but if they had something small and luxurious... that was much nicer than a civic but far cheaper than a TSX... and only margianlly m ore than a civic... it would sell.

thenb keep the TSX, TL, and RL.

If you look at Acura's lineup, it's very similar to BMW... so I see no reason why they can't have all these cars.. no reason to drop one.

ILX = 1 series
TSX = 3 series
TL = 5 series
RL = 7 series
RDX = X3
MDX = X5
ZDX = X6

the only real area where Acura is lacking is there is no M-series cars. maybe if Acura finally releases an NSX they'll have another sports car. I always thought it would also be really cool if Acura released an S2000 type car.. take the S2000 and add a more powerful motor, more luxury, tech... they could have a really really kick a$$ sports car.. that would be 40-45k... whcih would be more affordable than the NSX...and woudl sell in higher numbers...

Nissan has the 370 and the GT-R.
Acura should have a 2 door sports car like that.. and the ultra $$ NSX....

we can dream.

 

Let's not forget that we have not seen what the ILX will look like. Look back at post 13 from the vtec guys. There is no indication, from Acura or the styling, that the car is based on the Civic. The CSX and EL could be completely different cars (at least until someone posts a picture of an ILX).

 

i could eat my words, but i don't have any faith ILX will be a helluva lot better then existing line up, cosmetically.

 

Acura said it will be a design experiment. That could be very bad or very good. I think if it is very out of the norm, it will be critically accepted at first no matter what. However, if you are going to set a trend, you have to take a chance. The beak was a chance that failed. Audi had the black nose that was not highly accepted. Still, genius is rarely understood in its time. Give it a year after debut, and then it can be accurately assesed. Time will tell.

 

Well, according to CNN TSX is gone.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/...fortune/9.html

"The compact ILX will be the automaker's entry-level model, replacing the TSX (above)."

 

If that is true, then I hope the TL and RL get upgraded to a completely different style because the TSX is Acura's best looking sedan IMO.

 

Having in mind sales numbers on RL I do not think they will discontinue anything - but again I might be wrong

 

Acura is notoriously close to the vest with its plans. We won't know anything official until summer 2012. Getting rid of any of the sedans cuts sales of the brand IMHO.

 

My money is on the ZDX going away. The TSX outsells the ZDX by 20:1 so why would Acura kill the TSX without first wacking the ZDX? Plus there is a commonality between the Euro Accord with the TSX that improves economies of scale for building that model. The TSX also offers a wagon configuration that is more practical than what the ZDX offers and the TSX Wagon alone outsells the ZDX too.

 

The conversation is about which sedan is going away. The ZDX is a special, low-volume CUV seller that since it largely uses MDX bits, is relatively inexpensive to make.

 

Those who said the ILX will be based on the Civic are right.
http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...-Acura?odyssey

"Greensburg was picked to make the Acura ILX in part because the new car will be built on the same compact-size chassis as the Civic. That reduces the cost to Honda to retool the production line. Sipes wouldn't say how much Honda is spending to buy equipment and make other changes to the Greensburg plant."

 

Sharing a chassis doesn't say much for basing the car off of one another. Multiple Honda models use the same chassis. Just sayin'.

 

That's true, since the RL shares the same chassis (I think..) as the Accord. Bad wording on my part.

 

Even Acura markets the ZDX as a '4 door sports coupe' - it is perceived as a 5 door car and not an SUV so I think it's very plausible to consider this as a candidate for removal despite it not being termed a 'sedan'. I think people that shop a ZDX don't have the 7-passenger SUV mentality and probably compare the ZDX to a RL/TL in many regards: 5 passenger, all wheel drive, premium features & technology. The BMW 6 series sells 30x more than the ZDX so the ZDX model shouldn't be considered that low-volume since other brands seem to make concept work.

I think the ZDX just doesn't compete with the BMW 6 series or the A7 in what those cars offer to the consumer. Since it didn't take a lot of 'expense' to create it(I actually think it took a significant expense in body work, line time, marketing, etc), it should be pretty easy to ditch for the same reasons.

I noticed that the RSX had monthly sales of 700+ units which is 6x more than the ZDX and Acura manage to kill that model. That was a big mistake because it alienated the younger 20-something purchaser from the brand. Now Acura thinks it will capture these lost sales with an ILX which looks like a Civic- not a chance. The ILX may not even reach the RSX in its sales when all said and done.

Providing it is indeed true that it's only sedans that are being singled out, I then wonder what the logic is with having just 3 models. I see other (premium) brands with 4 or more models and they seem to be prospering.

I notice that Lexus has 5 sedans that a consumer could choose from so Acura offering 4 is not that extravagant:

LS
GS
ES
IS
HS

I see Mercedes has 4 models, so that would be inline with keeping the TSX:

C
E
S
CLS

I see Audi has 4 models as well.

A4
A6
A7 (ZDX-ish but sells 7x better)
A8

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what Acura does in the future. I think it's telling to see that back in 2006 when Acura had many more models, sales were much better than now. I know the economy is much worse now than then. I also think that there were a number of step-up Acura buyers that started with an Integra/RSX and moved up through the models as their income and life style changed. That's evident at least at this site in people's signatures and postings. This seems to be missing now since that brand will typically attract a 25+ yr old purchaser for a NEW vehicle now.

 

No one has seen an ILX, how do you know what it looks like?

The ZDX rides much higher than the A7 and costs $8-30k less. You could off road a ZDX, but could not with an A7.

The 6-series is a coupe.

 

Thanks for sharing, La Costa. Several points come to mind:

•Horrible sales won't stop them from soldiering on with the ZDX. Nothing sells worse than the RL, and before that the RL 3.5 that limped through 2004. Yet Acura kept them around, partly because they were cheap to build. By the same token, Acura has no problem making the TSX -- it's just a loaded European-issue Accord sedan or wagon -- yet they're apparently going to kill it. Contrary to their current "Season of Reason Sales Event," reason seems to simply play no part in their model decisions.

•Acura did sell better several years ago, but it wasn't mostly because they had more models -- it was because the core models were more appealing. The TL looked as great as the current one looks bizarre. The TSX had surgically precise hydraulic steering, since tossed out as the baby with the fuel-economy bathwater in favor of the numb electric version. Those two and the MDX were the bulk of the sales, just as they are now. The two sedans' sales just were considerably bulkier then. As for Lexus, the ES and LS (adjusting for the LS's high price) always have sold well, the GS has never moved many units, and the HS is dying like a dog.

In fairness to Honda, the ILX supposedly isn't going to look just like a Civic (which the current "Acura" Civic in Canada does), though I think it's a bad idea anyway.

All this is beside the point anyway. Acura sales have gone into the tank because the new models look horrible and are nonsensically marketed, basically. As long as you do see the beak and don't see words like "Legend" replace the alphabet soup, they'll continue their four-wheel drift into irrelevance, and it's painful to watch for fans like us.

 

Oops sorry about the confusion on the BMW - I meant the X6 which seems very similar to the ZDX. I'll stop beating a dead horse on the ZDX now.

Although, I own a TL. The TSX was what brought me into the Acura dealership in the first place. I liked the price point, fuel economy, looks, and features of the TSX in 2006. I wound up with the TL when it was all said in done, but the TL did not bring me in initially because I was under the mistaken impression that it was beyond my comfort level for what I was willing to spend on a car. So if Acura didn't have the TSX at that time, there would be a high chance that I would be driving a G35, Honda Accord V6-EXL, or possibly a Suburu Legacy GT which were models also on my radar screen at the time.



Anyway, I just wonder if my story is unique or more broad in scope other people's stories. I guess we'll hear more on the 9th when Acura makes a 'major' announcement at the Detroit car show. I hope the car resembles the AC-X concept more than the Civic then Acura might have a chance. link: http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?m...tem_id=1020643

 

I don't know what the heck Acura is thinking these days...the Integra\RSX being discontinued in 06 was the biggest mistake aside from the snaggle tooth grill, that now festoons the front end with the hideous Acura "grin".

I would LOVE to see some type of RSX style vehicle with SH-AWD with an S2000 type engine or a V6...don't give a lick about fuel economy myself. Also it was too bad they never came out with the last version of the NSX that got shelved...THAT was a beautiful car.

But this new ILX? No thanks.

 

Hmmm...branding the the 'luxury Civic' an Acura would be a really bad move and would push Acura even farther downmarket in the mind of the consumer. Therefore, based on their track record of continuous marketing malpractice, it is almost sure to happen.

The RL LEGEND is the best car Acura makes and, due to inept marketing, nearly the worst seller. It is the perfect size for a grown-up's car and it sports a phenomenal array of technology. With minor tweaks to the handling, styling and price point, they could sell a ton of them at $50K. That is, if they would rename it LEGEND. They won't.

The TSX is the best-looking Acura at the moment. Acura seems determined to make unattractive cars. Therefore the poor TSX will either get whacked with an ugly stick or deleted from the lineup. Too bad. The entry level will go away and so will a generation of Acura loyalists.

That leaves the TL. I'll leave it, how about you?


P.S. Threads like this really bring out the cynics, don't they!?! Really, Acura, please listen to your fan base. Apple did...