For the past 3 months I decided I was going to buy a Lexus ES350. I love the car. Great lines and it is a lot of car for the money. My love becames soured from reading about a the failures of transmissions, rattles, squeaks, unintended accelleration...tech issues...etc, etc. After reading the two big Lexus forums I came to realize that this car may not live up to the Lexus name. I decided to wait and buy an 08 ES 350 as a UL model. I made an appointment to put down an early deposit (based on $500 over invoice) The dealer emailed me back and said no deal...2008 ES's will only have 4% of the UL edition....they weren't going to discount. The regular models have a very cheap stereo system...something I don't think I could live with.

I test drove the RL and with the end of year discounts decided it was a better value for me...so I bought a non-tech RL for 38k. (about 4k more than the ES basic premium w/options) or about 1k more than the ES UL 07 model. I bought the pearl white with parchment interior.

Things I like about the RL...best stereo system of any vehicle that I have ever owned...wishing they had system integration with the ipod not just a cheap hook-up....Paint and body fit quality is absolutely first rate. Not one defect...my 03 TLp in redondo red had at least 20 minute defects. If you looked at the paint funny it would chip. ...On dry pavement, i haven't been able to get this car to even hint at breaking traction. the handling will wow you...this car is much smoother than my old TL....While this car is almost the same size as the TL, for some reason I get such a feeling of spaciousness tucked away in my captains chair ready for take-off...Leather quality is wow...seats are most confortable of any car...I have really noticed that the seat frames are much more rigid than any car I've been in...Bluetooth works well...wish it had higher level of integration, but thats ok...For a car that doesn't have Navi, it has hands down the best navi based compass system ever...the tire monitoring system should be the standard for all future cars

things i don't like...lower mpg (i can live with that) lack of power...honestly this car other than a slight boost in mid range power I think it was the same as the TL...don't anyone kid yourself, the ES has a much nicer cushier ride...if that is your priority than the RL is not the car for you. On the other hand if your willing give up a little ride quality, you will get a car that is a much better handling car than the buick class Lexus ES....would have liked to have had the air cooled seat feature...the wheels look much nicer than the base ES, but not as nice as the UL model...would have rather had Sirius radio (NFL)...cars like this should have full size spares.

When I spend 38k on a car I don't want to be made fun of. My house is full of women looking for any opportunity to find fault with my purchase. With this car, its the sat fin above the rear window. Names that I have heard so far are "Great White"..."Sharkie"..."Jaws"...and "Bruce" (jaws nick name from Steven Speilberg) If things get any worst, I am going to install an adjection seat...wonder what they will think of that feature.

 

A friend of mine has a graphite ES350. It is a real stunner of a car. All the Lexus models have excellent ratings from Consumer Reports (CR). I can't imagine reports of all the problems you stated unless those folks do not do CR, or JD Powers surveys, or are trying to prevent folks from buying it making theirs more exclusive. I drove his car and found it top notch and much more quiet than my RL. The Mark Levision audio system in the car is fabulous; dare I say better than the RLs.

The ES350 is not in the same class as the RL since it is based on the Camry, which makes it a TL competitor; not a RL. While I'll stick with my RL for awhile, I will not rule out a Lexus in the future.

 

I looked hard at the ES350, too, and aside from being too expensive for what it is, the penalty for the soft ride was too much for me. What I mean by that is that it was fabulous in a straight line, but pull an emergency evasion maneuver and it will scare the bejeezus out of you.

I simply jerked the wheel momentarily to the right at about 45mph and I honestly felt like I might actually lose control of the car. It jerked to the right, then pitched hard left on its springs in reaction. Then when I snapped the wheel back, it wallowed hard right again on its springs. It went through about 4 of these oscillations before it regained its composure. It was dramatic enough for me, but the salesman went a little white on me, too. Just told him I drive that way all the time.

Point is, I figured the car would be a handful in mountain driving or in any kind of quick maneuver.

About that time, I also learned that Lexus had "turned off" the bypass for the nav, and I just can't tolerate a nav that greys out all the options when the car starts moving.

Hello, Acura.

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Thanks for your brief review. The ES is indeed a looker, but the ultra-nanny navi and the soft ride that is endemic to Lexi would be showstoppers for me.

Agree with the comment that the ES is a competitor to the TL, not the RL, but the fact you can get a base model for not much more than the ES means that such a comparo will indeed occur.

 

I have championed and defended the RL beginning with my first of four of RL’s in 1997. During my ownership experience of each car, I knew that it was a superb automobile. I never compared it to vehicles that were built for other reasons.

To illustrate, my RL’s acceleration from a standing stop to 60mph was simply a reference figure. It was not an important factor to me because I was never going to take my RL to race at a drag strip where fractions of a second was the primary factor in winning or losing a race. Neither did the fact that the RL 6 cylinder engine failed to put out the same amount of power as an S class V8 Mercedes. After all, my RL could cruise at highway speeds with ease and was able to quickly pass another vehicle when necessary.

I Compare vehicles that are similarly powered, similarly sized and offer comparable features and appointments. Thus, when I read posts in which some expect a car such as the Lexus ES350 or a Mercedes E series car to have similar road handling attributes to a Porsche, BMW or an RL with its SAWD, I dismiss the comments as being irrelevant.

Mike_TX had a trying experience with the ES350 he drove. Fortunately, he was able to regain control of the car. I do not know why the car performed that way because I have not had a similar experience driving an ES350. One driver who had an entirely different experience is contained in the following thread in which the ES350’s handling performance saved him from serious injury:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289978

I am a staunch supporter of the Acura RL. I also consider the Lexus ES350 to be a superb automobile in many ways. Consider the following:

“For those who want to own and drive a high-power car bursting with sport’s car performance and road-hugging handling characteristics, don’t buy a Lexus ES350. Instead, buy a car you will be happy with such as a Porsche, BMW, or Infiniti M. However, if you no longer are stimulated by an adrenalin rush to take a corner at high speed and then fly down the highway accelerating to red-line, look no further than the ES350.

The ES350 is an automobile rich in comfort, stylish in design, lavishly appointed and fully featured with advanced safety and technical features. In other words, it is a car for those who have matured beyond the age of youthful exuberance and want to be enveloped in a cocoon of luxury when they drive.

This persona does not mean that the ES350 is underpowered or sluggish. To the contrary, its V6 engine quickly propels the car from a full stop, cruises at highway speeds without effort and thrusts to pass on the interstate with gusto when peddled to the floor. It does all of these things quietly, with stability and exquisite smoothness.

Although it is not an automobile that stimulates the visceral senses, the ES350 is an automobile for those who want to possess a car of comfort and ambiance; a true luxury car at a reasonable cost.

This low cost is a direct result of the ES350 and the Toyota Camry being the recipients of a similar basic design and engineering. Don’t be fooled thinking that the Lexus is a fluffed-up Camry. It isn’t. It is a far different car whose features and characteristics were built to appeal to an entirely different segment of the buying public. This engineering technique has been successfully employed in many other fields including aviation.

The design, engineering, features, attributes and cost of the ES350 make it a fabulous buy within its class.”

I know these things to be true because I wrote them and am the owner of a 2007 Lexus ES350.

Regards to all,

shepsan

 

You are all right... i will likely always have second thoughts about the Lexus ES...what a great car...I would have been very happy with either car...as for the comment about bashing the ES, look on the two main forums for Lexus...they are always talking about serious problems with this first year car. There were a lot of people telling us they had to get a lawyer involved to get Lexus to buy the vehicle back...people were looking for what to buy next while waiting for their Lexus buy back (better than half it seems bought other Lexus models)

For me I don't mind giving up a little plush ride for the phenomenal handling of the RL. By the way...my first trip of 255 miles with mix of highway and back roads without any regards to MPG., and a fair amount of experimentation...my trip display said 17.8 MPG and actual was 21. I was shocked by the 21. Driving the same roads, speeds and conditions my TL might have gotton 23. This car handles corners better than I do. With me reaching my limit the wheels make no noise nor have they ever hinted at a break of traction.

 

Your right about that one. This car is hard to loose control of. I even took it on some grass last week in a state park to see if I could spin it out. It's like this car rides on rails. Never drove anything like this.

This is not a car for a teenager looking to do tricks. It'll frustrate your best attempts.

 

I think it all boils down to handling vs. soft ride. Its funny, but after owning various Honda products, and driving friends toyota products, its almost contant throughout their product lines: Honda has the better handling, Toyota has the better (as in softer, cushier, whatnot) ride.

I sometimes joke that Toyotas are for people who don't like to drive, but that is likely overly harsh on my part. I do think Toyota is starting to try to make a few of their cars better "handlers", but then again, considering they are now the top brand, I doubt that they will change too much.