stefce

Hi.. i am new to the forum and new to the RL (i Have a Honda Legend)
a 2010 5 speed auto 3.7i with a motor maybe thats special to European market.. a J37A3 (no wikipedia reference on this motor)
Since i am into Modifying I have a 2001 S2000 and have been totaly modified i want to make some enchantments to the Legend also
but first thing is first.. to write about the 2 things i think Honda made wrong.
1.When changing from 2nd to 3rd gear on a 0-200kmh run the car chages from 2nd to 3rd and since its a 5 speed Auto tranny it goes off of VTEC when you get into 3rd and you wait maybe 5 sec than it goes back to VTEC..and the feeling is really bad.. Once it starts going in 1st,and 2nd you really feel the VTEC doing the change in acceleration.. and then i change into 3rd and it goes bellow VTEC and you need few seconds so it climbs to VTEC range and it starts pulling again.. Its so miserable .. even if i try to closely match it before redline it still needs 1-2 seconds to bounce to VTEC and the feeling is like when you go from 2nd to 3rd that there is something wrong with the engine..and than goes back to normal..
I know that this is solved with the 6speed auto but for EU market the car ended selling in October 2010 and we never got the new tranny.But what to do with the situation now.. ?? i know this isnt a race car but its so stupid to let the engine fall out of VTEC for the bad Gearing Honda engineers did with the Tranny and i really dont know how they missed it.?
-Also annoying thing is that the car doesnt shift on redline by it self.. even in sport mode.. it shifts little over 6000 and not at 6800 and doesnt try to match the shifting and so it gets best overall performance..wierd..
you have to do a paddle shifts to get near or as best to redline shifts..and in each gear is different..
Also what i cant understand is how couldnt they make the Tanny get a better hole shot from standstill? when you get on the gas it doesnt do anything special just climb the RPM from 2000 to redline.. no smart feature to start at higher RPM and get the car moving faster..and not do the Granny style start from dead stop.. I tried 1st gear in sport mode to punch the gas and hold the brake but not much difference.. and the tranny was getting confused and showed 1-2 .. 2-1 on the gear display.. so yes i am pretty disappointing in the Dead stop performance of the AWD car..
2. After thinking about the 6 speed auto i tought that maybe the TL 6sp AWD tanny is the same as the RL? i cant find the info on this? can i buy a 6sp TL awd and retrofit it to the RL? what else would i need except the Mechanical parts? NEW ecu for the tranny,what cabling? has anybody have some Acura tech that can explore this subject and get us an answer about the things needed to get a 5speed RL or J37 to a 6speed auto ...and whats involved..

I say TL 6sp since i looked at car junkyard site and they have only a 2011 Sh-awd Tranny listed and when you search for a RL 2011 tranny there is no listings..

-- my Ideas of moding is getting a Twin free flowing exhaust thats quiet for daily drive and makes awsome sound on VTEC and making it with an X-pipe at the center and not doing a J-pipe
-Making a BMC CDA airbox instead of the OEM airbox..
All this would be measured in real world performance compared to OEM with a racelogic and getting difference in 0-402m and 0-1000m runs and also 0-200kmh

I would be a very happy man if i can change the VTEC engage point to a 400-500rpm lower so when i change from 2nd to 3rd i dont get the 4 second wait..
does anybody know how to modify the OEM ecu or Map? maybe AEM or hodata?

for now thats it..
Stefce

neuronbob

Welcome to the forum. I see you are a man with taste: Legend/RL AND an S2000.

First, the pause you describe is well-described on this site. There are even videos documenting this.

Second, I know of only one person on the site who has modified the ECU, and that was in the course of installing a Comptech supercharger. The work was done by a shop in southern California called Autowave, and in-house. Here's the thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rl-2005-2012-76/2007-rl-acura-supercharger-spec-brake-upgrade-%2A%2Apix-dyno-pg-1%2A%2A-751361/

There was once an ECU in the Japanese market made by Amuse, but it has not been in production for years. The fact is, the Legend/RL platform has such low market penetration that no one has felt it appropriate to create such things. You are on your own.

Thankfully, we DO have exhaust options.

oo7spy

No ECU tune has been documented here.
OP, is this what your are talking about?
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rl-2005-2012-76/3rd-gear-vtec-problem-video-854364/

If it is, it is a known issue.

stefce

Thanks for the reply. Since I come from a big trial and error background and did have a comptech on my s2000 stock boost and now its 15psi I know few things..
I saw both treads..
Supercharger should be easy and no ecu work.. just new fuel pump.having a electronic thing that doest let the OEM ecu see the boost and rising rate fpr and you are set.. OEM timing should be ok for 6psi..
About the VTEC problem its a gearing problem And I don't know why haven't the Honda engineers see this.. its a serious engineering mistake on the gear side.. or at least have a 4700 VTEC crossover like the tl and you are covered

About the exhaust I have a super sprint exhaust on my s2000 and its by far best looking and it has a signature sound to it.. and with the 15psi boost its a exhaust nirvana.. haven't herd a better exhaust on a 2 liter car..
For the legend I don't plan a jpipe 2-1 but single lines into a x-pipe and 4 resonators and 2 mufflers.. but that's a years project and my wife will kill me..since this is our family car..
No one said anything About the poor hole shot performance..
And we need to dig and see if to 6sp tranny is the same and what we need to do to use it.. only performance mod worthwhile.. will post some pictures later

ichi d

You should try and do a 6speed manual swap, taking the tranny from the 4gen TL.

oo7spy

Is the video above what you experience?

I think you have to elaborate on "poor hole shot performance". I don't know what that means.

FWIW, if the issue in the video is your problem, not all RLs do it. Enough do to know it's "normal", but the majority don't.

stefce

First of all the video is all wrong since shift is done even before 6000 and its at least 1000rpm off the limiter and optimal shift..
The whole deal of the VTEC is it to substitute a turbo.. and the main reason is to be in VTEC when you upshift.. and if you are not in it the whole concept of it is missed.
If my car doesn't land in VTEC from 2nd to 3rd than no other does.. and its not my problem ..its gearing problem. And its same in each 5sp RL/legend
Hole shot is fast start of the line or good start from dead stop - standstill.. well this 5sp auto just doesn't get the car in 1st gear moving as it should or at least doesn't move like other autos out there.. I am faster than my friends 330d BMW when we start from standstill I can't get the car to move as fast as his and he gets 2-3 lengths in front and I have trouble catching him especially when I get from 2-3 rd and its the tall gearing that makes the legend slower than it really is..

vletnguyen

iTrader: (1)

I don't think the RL was made to have 1.6 second 60' as it's meant and geared towards the older crowd. All the transitions are seamless and not suppose to be sporty but luxurious.
I agree with you that the VTEC engagement should be effective as you shift and wish there was more of an aftermarket support for this vehicle. I am a firm believer in optimal ECU management as that is where a lot how the car feels and drives. With no ECU support it is hard to safely raise power levels via forced induction, so far all we have is basic bolt ons. Case in point, the IS-F has no ecu support yet therefore no successful force induction. However, the IS-F is already a N/A beast with basic bolt ons

Matt W

Forget replacing the tranny, talk about fucking expensive and not to mention the fact that all the people that own RL's are usually a bunch of old people and there is not many people here that have done many complicated mods.

If you want this car to go fast the tranny isn't going to solve the problem, the easy and probably the smartest route if you are looking to keep this car for awhile is go get the comptech supercharger. One other person has done this and the only thing that had to be done was relocation of the battery and trimming some plastic pieces in the engine bay, everything else was bolt on and go.

I am sure after this you will not be bothered by the vtec dropping out at 3rd gear.

You can get the supercharger here:
http://www.ct-engineering.com/Produc...1/Default.aspx

Its going to cost you about $5000 US, but seriously how much would you spend on a 2011 awd tl transmission, not to mention all the problems with retrofitting and the fact that nobody here has messed with the ECU EVER, especially not if they changed it at 2010 because I have only seen 1 or 2 of those modded.

(Also I just noticed all what I said might be pointless because I see that you have a 2010 and im not sure if that supercharger will fit)

oo7spy

This:
and this:
are somewhat baffling statements.



I think this entire thread was summed up quite nicely by the OP.

stefce

Yup supercharger will work and deliver moore oomphh...hehe
i know this personally when i put a comptech one on my s2000 and that 60hp made a massive change..
this seems easly installed ..not much trouble in doing this..as i see it.. but even with this the 2-3rd gear will be problem that isnt solved and even with the supercharger pushing the car wont pull as good when there isnt VTEC..and those 2 seconds of VTEC on-OFF will be unbearable.. and thats if you rev match it..
if you leave it to automatic shift it will be even more time until VTEC kicks..
i wasnt talking that i wasnt happy with the car how it drives and performs now..
its just that i respect honda so much and i cant imagine how they missed the Gearing with the VTEC..

And yes this isnt a race car.. and bunch of old people drive it and probably never redline it.. but since i am 31 and come from a perfecting background i cant excuse the mishaps that honda made with the setup..
And it doesnt mean if its not a racecar that it doesnt have to drive like one.. Leave the Nissan GTR in drive and it drives as smooth as the RL but if you punch it it behaves accordingly..and the RL should have had the same behavior.. i like the Sport mode.. leave the Revs higher and longer but doesnt shift at redline as an auto ..
i dont see how people can defend the car - like if its not a race car and it shouldnt act like one.. i am just saying that it should have been done more proper from the factory..and even if you drive a luxury car doesnt mean that you cant have fun in it..

i bet the 6sp auto acts the same as this 5sp but it probably moves the car a lot quicker since its 30% shorter gearing until 5th and also doesnt miss the VTEC even in auto shifting.
and from experience you can gain as much performance from the right gearing as with the Power increase..

stefce

PS.
Landing in VTEC means that when you upshift the Engine is still in VTEC zone (4900-6800) and if you are not in it VTEC isnt on..
to clarify even more..
you redline it in second gear at 6800 rpm and change to 3rd and you get 4500rpm on your rpm tach and you will have to wait for the car to gain speed until it gets to 4900rpm and get the VTEC kickkk..hhehe

i love the Johnny Avatar from F&F where it says VTEC just kicked YO!

oo7spy

There are a few people here that push their RL around like it were a race car, so you are not alone. This seems to be the first explanation of this behavior though.

I am just a little surprised you can so confidently state that if your car can't land 3rd gear in VTEC then no one's can. I would like a second opinion. That's all.

Can you take a video?

stefce

if i cant land it in Vtec in 3rd than no one can is said assuming that all 5 sp auto gearboxes are geared same on all RL/Legends KB1/KB2..which i see no reason why they would change this..

Meaning is that its not a Driver or CAR difference..its just plain physics that the car cant be in the VTEC zone with that tall 3rd gear upon shifting from 2nd. and i bet the 6sp since it has 5 shorter gears and 6th is longer than our 5th will be each time you shift in the VTEC range ..but i have to drive one to say for sure.. and there isnt a LEGEND with a 6sp for europe..
I will make a video of this if i can when i go out testing new airbox i will do in next 2 weeks. i will test it compared to OEM performance in 0-200kmh but the 100-200kmh test will be more accurate to see if i shed some tenths of the time of the OEM or i loose some.. and this will be decide factor to leave the mod or loose it.
airbox i will test is a BMC CDA.
stefce

23109VC

The RL wasn't meant to be a performance car.. When I bought my RL I knew that... But I had a "real" sports car like you do. When I sold my boxster I no longer had a fun car to get my kicks with so sold the RL and got an AWD TL.

If I were you, I'd enjoy the RL for what it is..a very nice luxury ride. You have a supercharged S2000 to terrorize the twisties with when you feel the urge. You can do some basic stuff to the RL to make it a tad more fun, like aspec suspension, lowering springs, or basic intake/exhaust bolt ons.. But from my personal experience, it won't alter the cars true nature which is being focused on luxury. The car drives smooth, the shifts are smith, throttle comes on smoothly, etc. if you want your RL to be a real sports sedan it's never gonna happen... But it is a really nice car.. Really nice. Since you have the s2000... You have the best of both worlds in one garage!

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Put that pig on a diet and get to work:

http://www.insideline.com/acura/rl/s...e-racecar.html

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rl-2005-2012-76/spoon-legend-run-nsx-chasing-camera-car-isnt-beautiful-869103/

and for fun:

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-rl-2005-2012-76/how-get-more-power-my-06-rl-776433/

you arent the first one who wants to make this car fast.

oo7spy

I was meaning that it is more of an issue specific to certain cars than one that plagues all of them.

The issue in the video above where VTEC in 3rd gear stalls is not an issue on all RLs, only some. I think if it can be true that not all RLs experience that stall, then maybe not all RLs land below VTEC in 3rd.

The more you explain it, the more I am starting to think you are right that they probably all do, but it seems like a tall assumption based on other issues.

stefce

hey...
I have been watching the Best Motoring shows for years.. i know the Spoon RL..didnt take notice until i bought the Legend..
But Did you notice that when they let off the GAS the RPM fall? this happens in D mode and not in S mode.. At least on newer RLs..with the Straight gate shifter..and the upgraded logic on the tranny. Sadly the Spoon car seems not to have this feature..and they would really benefit from it on the track..since it will keep the wheels under stress like a manual tranny would..
Anyway to get back to why i wanted to write ..
there are 2 things i want ask for help..
1.Is there a way to get into the Whole setup menu on the car? i mean some secret combination of pushing switches and so..? on EU models like mine i get some basic stuff that i dont need but i cant access to the KEY unlock function since its available to Non-eu Cars..
what i mean is ..that i need to push the damn unlock key twice to get all doors opened and trunk and i want to change this to singe unlock to unlock all doors.OEM is once pushed unlock on the key its driver door and twice its all doors.. and i am really annoyed..Dealer says he has never done this and doesnt think he can change this..
- I looked with the search option but no luck so someone please post me a link or tell me how.. or should I start a new tread to get better info..

2.I got info from the dealer that other owners complained on high fuel consumption..
i knew this when i got the car but didnt care.. but after a week of running it..i see some unusual stuff.. i know the car is an auto and usually wants to go highest gear and lowest RPM but i see unusual reading on instant consumption.. on just pipping the gas to get the car going it goes to 25l/100km which is like 5 galon on 62miles and when it gets to speed it goes to 1500rpm and to 15-18liters on 100km.. which is 3 galons for 62miles
this is odd to me and i dont know why the car shows such high consumption on low rpm and basically hairing the throttle and no real load .. yup its a big gas drinker but its not understandable.. normaly i would say its the 5 gears that are too little but when its 1500rpm and barely touching the throttle it doesnt make sense.. if it was a 8 gears auto it would be still the same 1500rpm and virtually no throttle.. I bet the instant consumption meter is not so accurate but still this car consumes a lot of fuel with really moderate driving..
so i cant get no sense out of this.. it more fair for me to get the car moving by reving first 2-3 gears and than let it settle at 5th with basically no throttle..
but this still shows high consumption..and makes no sense..
someone will say that its a big engine and a heavy car thats AWD and its normal but i dont think so.. it should not consume so much with no load no matter what size engine and weight of car..
my father has a S500 (5.5liter) V8 NA (388hp) and its a 4matic and 7sp auto.. its consumes 30-40% less fuel in the same conditions of driving from home to work and back.. I bet Honda got this stuff wrong also like they did with the gearing..
i assume i will get less fuel consumption with driving it manually in sport and downshifting on redlights than letting it drive in D...
i dont mind the fuel consumption its just my point that it doesnt make sense..under the given conditions..
- maybe there is a tread on this and I posted on the wrong place..
I am planning to put a O2 wideband sensor in the both banks and see what is the car doing under these mentioned conditions.... and if its always 14.7 than nothing can be changed..

- I know the 3.7i motor is same in output as the 3.5i it replaces but it doesn’t make any sense why would it be same power output since it has all things going for it.. larger bore,Vtec on the exhust,better block lining (less friction).. ect.. I bet that honda Detuned this engine to make it 300hp and it has done so I don’t know why.. maybe they got more torque out of it.. but where is the power.. I bet this motor would much more benefit from basic bolt-ons than the 3.5 one.. in my mind it should have made 350hp easily as stock with that compression ratio and the larger bore and especially the VTEC on both sides..

-And as last point the Audio really Sucks and its not as one would think that Bose would sign off on a system like this.. i never liked BOSE as a brand but since they are behind this system i thought they took the time to engineer it right..but it sound blant and by one word - BAD.. such a shame.. have to change it in future for better components and amplification.. such a shame they didnt do this right.. and nobody who can say to me anything would change my mind.. my S2000 has better audio than this car.. at least cleaner and louder..

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

whoa

stefce

I will upload pictures of the intake mod when I do it and the results.. also when I get the chance to upload 2 exhaust configurations I am contemplating.. one is like atlp 2-1-2 and the other is like supersprint makes for the Audi A5 with 2 pipes from each bank and join with an X section and than go to each muffler.. I was planning 4 resonators and 2 mullers in the center x-pipe with options of removing resonators until I get deaired sound note..
The exhausts that are available as for the TL shawd are far too expensive and would be right if they would be titanium for the asking price.

oo7spy

1. Put the car in park with the ignition on. Hold the MID button that has an "i" on it until you get to the options menu. Scroll down until you get to "Keyless Access". Once there, there are options for unlocking upon entry, upon shifting to park, and locking with speed.

2. What kind of MPG(Km/L) are you getting overall? What type of roads? It is too hard to follow your explanation. 16-18 MPG (37-42 Km/L) is completely normal for 100% city driving with stop and go. 20 mpg is normal for 50/50 city/hwy, and 27 MPG is a good 100% hwy number.

3. The 3.7L makes 10 more HP than the 3.5L. The agency that determines HP ratings changed it's calculation method after the 2005 model. The '05 was rated for 300hp and the '07 was 290 even though they are the exact same car.

4. Bose sucks. Even with their own products, they suck. However, I would put money on some other company (Alpine) building the system and Bose sticking their name on it which is even worse than a Bose system.

5. It's hard to understand your posts.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

fixed

stefce

1. I don't get the option in the menu for keyless access.. its there in the owner manual for non-eu cars.. and mine is eu and this isn't available
2.should have made much more power with those spec.. he he
3. Yup Bose sucks.. I always thought so too
4. Sorry about if my writing is awkward..
5. About the fuel consumption just ignore it..

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

much better.

oo7spy

The problem with Bose is their quality of materials. They go as cheap as possible and try to cover it up with good acoustics. The 2G Legend has a Bose system with cardboard speakers. That's right, cardboard. Really stiff and resilient, but it's still cardboard.

It wouldn't surprise me if the RL has them too. Then again, the Bose factory I deal with at work is in Mexico, so them driving down cost at every opportunity doesn't surprise me.

stefce

The front door midbass is 53$ as a spare part on acura parts site.. some of the beat sounding units are paper cone.. doesnt mean they are cheap.. see scan speak..

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

You almost made it.

First thing IMO picking good speakers is not as easy as cone material... there are so many variables that go into the design of a speaker it's almost impossible to tell the good from the bad by just looking at them.

I think 007's point was geared towards using the best product in the best car when instead they pulled the same old speaker off the shelf.

oo7spy

Cheap has two inherent meanings in the marketplace.

One is the price you pay for the product. The other is the price the company payed to make the product. I could make a paper airplane and try to sell it for $100. That doesn't mean it isn't cheap.


The keyless access thing it pretty interesting. There has to be a way to do it, but I think you might need to learn Japanese to find the answer. In the CR-V, there is a rather unusual sequence of events necessary to setting the features. Something like, turn the key to "I". Place the car in reverse. Turn the key to "II". Hold the lock button until you hear a click. Place the car in park. Turn off the key. I was wondering when I was going to have to hold my breath, rub my belly and pat my head, but the manual never go to that part.

I wonder of the Legend sequence is similar.