scalbert

That is right; the Mugen fan switch for the B-Series motor fits the hole for our switch A. It came in today and when I got home I immediately went out to install it. The old one came out and the new one in a minute or two.

BTW, I also took out the stock T-Stat and drilled three 3/16 inch holes in it instead of buying that pricy lower temp T-Stat. In addition to the new fan switch I also installed the higher pressure radiator cap and added a bottle of Water Wetter.

With the above mentioned items installed or added along with topping off the coolant after having dumped about a quart and a half on the floor I started it up. The temps increased to about 150 in normal fashion but slowed from there probably due to the holes I drilled. But within several minutes it was up to 170 F. A minute later it hit 183 F and the fans came on. They then went off in about ten second with the temperature dropping to 176 F. I let it cycle about ten more times with the results the same. The temperature ranged between 176 F and 183 F (two times it did hit 185 F). So for the most part the temperature averaged about 180 F which is 20 degrees lower than stock.

Before some ask who hasn't been following this topic, no this does not gain power. But it should help to prevent loss of power when stopped or in slow moving traffic. Based on some dynos we have seen the engine can loose 5 - 7 HP and same in torque with increased coolant temperatures.

So, for those interested, you can get the B series fan switch from King Motorsports along with the other items. But make sure you state the B series fan switch as the one for the H series motors will not fit. I'll also call them tomorrow and inform them of the results. Plus I need to return the other switch...

Nashua_Night_Hawk

What does the switch really do? what is the difference between stock and the Mugen one, Thanks.

scalbert

You just replace the stock one with the Mugen unit. It turns the cooling fans on at a lower temperature which will keep the coolant at a lower temp.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Let us know how it goes from here... By the way is it reommmended for the northen easter snowy areas... Also, how much it cost you for the whole project.

mattg

how much was the switch and water wetter, and will it work on an auto? do you have a pic of where the switch is? thx

scalbert

The problem in the northeast would be reduced heating ability in the car. For me this is irrelevant as we do not get near the temperatures you do so my heater is hardly used.

http://www.kingmotorsports.com/

$45.00 Fan Switch
$29.00 High Pressure Radiator Cap
$7.35 Water Wetter

So less than $100 including shipping.

There really shouldn't be any reason why it wouldn't work on the automatic, it has the same switch A for primary fan control. I'll try to snap a picture but it is located on the T-Stat housing just under the throttle body.

mattg

would you recommend drilling the stock cap or purchasing the high pressure version?

also, all of my fastest times i have run have been late in the day after multiple runs. this kind of goes against the cooler = less power loss theory. i've heard others say this also, any ideas?

scalbert

I didn't drill the radiator cap, I drilled the T-Stat. You can't or wouldn't want to drill the rad cap. The idea of a high pressure rad cap is to increase the boiling point of the coolant which will aid in heat transfer. I drilled the T-Stat to get coolant flowing sooner.

There could be various reasons for the better times afetr a few runs. Such as the drive back allowed the engine to cool with airflow versus having been sitting and waiting. Or it could be the tires were better prepared. There are many variables to this so it is a hard one to call.

mattg

me =

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Well me too I noticed the following the best runs are back-to-back runs ... I think this is due to ECU getting more aggressive

Scalbert, and EricL what do you think?

dj_3000

Steve, thanks for the update. I have been waiting for your update.

Is a new gasket required when you remove the thermostat?

Rescuer

i'm a little confused at the drilling of the t-stat

scalbert

Nope, it was in perfect shap... It uses a rubber seal around the t-stat so there is not a traditional gasket.

scalbert

King Motorsport sell a Mugen low temp t-stat which opens sooner than the stock piece. However, it runs about $70 which is extreme for a t-stat. So by drilling a few holes in mine I simulate a slight opening sooner allowing the temps to be kept down.

typeR

thanks steve...im right behind you

Rescuer

which fan switch part # is it ?
FAN SWITCH 37773-XGMR-0000 $45.00
FAN SWITCH 37760-XK5-00N0 $45.00



and i'm still wondering about the drilling thing. i guess if i do this i want to know exactly what to drill so that i don't have to buy the high priced lower temp t-stat thing.

sorry but i'm full of questions :o

what did you use to get the temperatures of the engine?

EricL

Steve, did you get your number with the A/C on or off and did you just add the Redline WW to the existing coolant mix or alter the water/coolant ratio?

Did you run any tests with the A/C off, then on?

TypeR -- do you have the correct Mugen thermostat part # for the CLS?

For reference purposes, could someone leave the links and contact info here along with:

The part # for the "B" fan switch
The part # for the "correct" thermostat for CLS 2001-2003 (for us non-drillers).
The part # for the high-pressure radiator cap.


TIA


Any install tips/steps/procedures (for all) would be a wonderful bonus!


My current info (to date) -- please correct and update if wrong:

LINK: http://www.kingmotorsports.com

Hi. pres. Radiator cap -- 19045-XGER-0000
Thermostat -- 19301-XGMR-0000 (prelude)? or 19301-XGER-0000 (B-series) ? or ??
Switch -- 37760-XK5-00N0 (Integra page/B) yes/no/?

EricL

I believe Scalbert has a nice OBDII interface for his laptop and can report on all of the juicy engine info...

EricL

I believe Mike got better dynos after multiple runs -- this could be ECU related to fuel-air and other issues.

Also, the very air that is traversing the engine at WOT, is cooling the surfaces in the intake manifold/plenum and other surfaces exposed to high airflow. If the engine was not stopped for a long time to allow a "heat soak", it is possible that the surfaces that would normally "heat" the incoming air might actually be cooler than they were on a previous run (it depends). Without instrumentation running to document various runs, this is speculative... An engine builder that could build a insulating layer containing cooling coils to keep the air passages "cool" would increase air density and get more power out of an engine when run with outside air temps in the 50- to 100-degree F range.

The whole coolant temp "thing" got started after a 6-speed dyno and the folks there noticed more power with the coolant temp lower. Heck, nobody knows if they just didn't leave the A/C on to increase the fan speeds (the two cooling fans are "normally" operated in series [at least on the automatic] when the A/C is off]; this makes for less cooling. I haven't seen anyone really "explore" how the temps vary once a car is moving and with the A/C on and/or off. Once the car is moving above 30
MPH, the ram air "swamps" the effectiveness of the electric fans and the switch is not doing much good...

spiroh

Ive noticed the same thing too. I also have heard that vtec runs better when its hot. So far I've always had the best times, towards my runs at the end. It makes sense.

spiro

scalbert

The climate control was set to off so no AC. Unfortunately I never did grab the numbers with the AC on. I'll try to get this tonight though since it looks like I won't be going to the track due to rain...

I added the Water Wetter to a decreased ratio. I lost about two quarts of fluid when I removed the switch and t-stat and refilled with the Water Wetter and just water, so the ratio was lowered which I am sure helped.

As for tips and procedures, I should have taken pics but this could be done in fifteen minutes barring the clean up. I did not pre-drain, just dump and clean. The switch is a screw in style so just pull the electrical connector and loosen the switch. The t-stat housing is held in place with two 10mm bolts. Just take these out and the housing cover comes off. Then just pull the t-stat out and prepare for fluid to dump out also.

For the drilling, the t-stat has a flat ring around it. I just drilled the three holes in the flats of the ring at equal distances.

Those are the correct part numbers for the items. However, I can't comment on the t-stat though since I did not purchase one. I would assume it is right but I can't say for sure.

scalbert

As Eric mentioned I have software and a cable for my laptop to read engine parameters from the ECU:

http://www.obd-2.com

Old capture before the switch and stat chnages:

scalbert

I ran some new tests tonight with the AC on. With the AC on full the temps actually dropped and remained at about 172 F. So out of curiosity I ran the heat on full and the temps crept up to 183 when the fan cut on and dropped the temps to 175.

I then ran the with the climate control off and the temps were kept between 177 to 185 on a fully warm engine, drove home from work.

dj_3000

Steve, do you think most of the cooling can be attributed to the new fan switch?

I have done the Water Wetter and Mugen cap. Was thinking that I might try the fan switch. I will probably leave the thermostat alone.

scalbert

The fan switch is only relevant at idle or lower speeds. After that the stat needs to be open to allow proper cooling. I am still contemplating the Mugen t-stat just to test the differences but I do feel the stock stat (left untouched) is isn't enough.

allmotor_2000

Steve. Where did you buy the software and how much? Also... does this plug into the OBD-II connector port or the ECU itself?

Also... where IS the OBD-II connector port in this car?

scalbert

Here you go:

http://www.obd-2.com

It was $129 when I bought it and is a great value. Obviously you need a laptop and in this case need a version of Windows at or above 98.

I plugs into the standard OBD-II connector which is now located just above the driver right knee. This is unlike my '01 where the connector was below the coin try and behind a cover.

allmotor_2000

Thanks... I might get it.