What defines an..."Import" ?
11-03-2003, 06:05 PM
#81
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally posted by JaDia4
Just because a car maker is owned by another car company doesn't mean that the owner totally drives the direction of the subsidiary. Like Ford decides the directions of Lincoln. Which is apparent in the use of the same platforms. Ford probably has a pool of designers, enginers, and artists that come up with most of the ideas. Then each other maker will take from that which they want to integrate, with Ford's approval. But what would be the point of being the president of Mercury if Ford was going to make all the decisions anyways. Even Lincoln and Mercury have to be making decisions on where they want to take the company. And they're in the same market region as ford. Holden has to be calling its own shots for the most part. But I will try to find out how much involved GM is with Holden.
Just because a car maker is owned by another car company doesn't mean that the owner totally drives the direction of the subsidiary. Like Ford decides the directions of Lincoln. Which is apparent in the use of the same platforms. Ford probably has a pool of designers, enginers, and artists that come up with most of the ideas. Then each other maker will take from that which they want to integrate, with Ford's approval. But what would be the point of being the president of Mercury if Ford was going to make all the decisions anyways. Even Lincoln and Mercury have to be making decisions on where they want to take the company. And they're in the same market region as ford. Holden has to be calling its own shots for the most part. But I will try to find out how much involved GM is with Holden.
No major decisions are implemented/taken at ANY of FOrd's and GM's wholy owned subsidiaries before the "big boys" approve. That's the nature of corporate America.
Ford and GM would not be buying bankrupt companies to let them continue do how they please. The reason they were going straight to extinction was BECAUSE OF THOSE BAD DECISIONS. So when Ford puts their money in Jaguar, they do because they now have FULL control of the company and are able to STEER it the way they want. THAT MAKES JAGUAR AN AMERICAN COMPANY.
11-03-2003, 06:06 PM
#82
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally posted by cusdaddy
Okay.. Let's look at it in a different light and get out of the automotive discussion.
One example: GE recently bought Amersham (a British medical business that used to be owned by the British government) for $9.5 billion. The company will still be based in London and still employ British. But it is now an American company? Yes. Why, because it is now part of GE, a American conglomerate. The shots are called in the US by Americans.
It doesn't matter where the parts are made. Parts for most of what we get are made outside of the US. What matters is where the business is incorporated.
Why should the auto industry be any different?
Okay.. Let's look at it in a different light and get out of the automotive discussion.
One example: GE recently bought Amersham (a British medical business that used to be owned by the British government) for $9.5 billion. The company will still be based in London and still employ British. But it is now an American company? Yes. Why, because it is now part of GE, a American conglomerate. The shots are called in the US by Americans.
It doesn't matter where the parts are made. Parts for most of what we get are made outside of the US. What matters is where the business is incorporated.
Why should the auto industry be any different?
I dont understand why this is so confusing to some. Canadians excluded
Kidding... 
11-03-2003, 06:08 PM
#83
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally posted by JaDia4
I was actually replying to a comment on the first page of this thread, but after reading more of the earlier posts, I see this one of those topics that will just be opinion based and not come to a real conclusion unless someone actually produces facts or those involved just agree to disagree.
I was actually replying to a comment on the first page of this thread, but after reading more of the earlier posts, I see this one of those topics that will just be opinion based and not come to a real conclusion unless someone actually produces facts or those involved just agree to disagree.
You think this is about opinions? You want facts? No problem.
11-03-2003, 06:13 PM
#84
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Just a primer:
General Motors Automotive
General Motors participates in the automotive industry through the activities of its automotive business operating segment General Motors Automotive (GMA). GMA is comprised of four regions: GM North America (GMNA), GM Europe (GME), GM Latin America/Africa/Mid-East (GMLAAM) and GM Asia Pacific (GMAP).
GMNA designs, manufactures and/or markets vehicles primarily in North America. Its products are offered under the Chevrolet, Pontiac, GMC, Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac, Saturn and HUMMER names.
GME, GMLAAM and GMAP meet the demands of customers outside North America with vehicles designed, manufactured and/or marketed under the following nameplates: Opel, Vauxhall, Holden, Saab, Buick, Chevrolet, GMC, and Cadillac. GM's automotive regions also have equity ownership in Fiat Auto Holdings (FAH), Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., Suzuki Motor Corporation (Suzuki), Isuzu Motors Limited, Shanghai General Motors Corporation (SGM), SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Company Ltd. and GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Company (GM Daewoo). These investees design, manufacture and market vehicles under the following nameplates: Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Subaru, Suzuki, Isuzu, Buick, Wuling, Daewoo and, commencing in 2003, Chevrolet.
Substantially all automotive-related products are marketed through retail dealers and distributors in the United States, Canada and Mexico, as well as through distributors and dealers overseas. As of December 31, 2002, there were approximately 7,790 GM vehicle dealers in the United States, 800 in Canada and 210 in Mexico. Additionally, there were a total of approximately 11,800 outlets overseas, which included dealers and authorized sales, service and parts outlets.
GM's principal competitors in passenger cars and trucks in the United States and Canada include Ford Motor Company, DaimlerChrysler Corporation, Toyota Corporation, Nissan Motor Corporation, Ltd., Honda Motor Company, Ltd., Mazda Motor Corporation, Mitsubishi Motors Corporation, Volkswagen A.G. Hyundai Motor Company, Ltd. and Bayerische Motoren Werke AG.
General Motors Automotive
General Motors participates in the automotive industry through the activities of its automotive business operating segment General Motors Automotive (GMA). GMA is comprised of four regions: GM North America (GMNA), GM Europe (GME), GM Latin America/Africa/Mid-East (GMLAAM) and GM Asia Pacific (GMAP).
GMNA designs, manufactures and/or markets vehicles primarily in North America. Its products are offered under the Chevrolet, Pontiac, GMC, Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac, Saturn and HUMMER names.
GME, GMLAAM and GMAP meet the demands of customers outside North America with vehicles designed, manufactured and/or marketed under the following nameplates: Opel, Vauxhall, Holden, Saab, Buick, Chevrolet, GMC, and Cadillac. GM's automotive regions also have equity ownership in Fiat Auto Holdings (FAH), Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., Suzuki Motor Corporation (Suzuki), Isuzu Motors Limited, Shanghai General Motors Corporation (SGM), SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Company Ltd. and GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Company (GM Daewoo). These investees design, manufacture and market vehicles under the following nameplates: Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Subaru, Suzuki, Isuzu, Buick, Wuling, Daewoo and, commencing in 2003, Chevrolet.
Substantially all automotive-related products are marketed through retail dealers and distributors in the United States, Canada and Mexico, as well as through distributors and dealers overseas. As of December 31, 2002, there were approximately 7,790 GM vehicle dealers in the United States, 800 in Canada and 210 in Mexico. Additionally, there were a total of approximately 11,800 outlets overseas, which included dealers and authorized sales, service and parts outlets.
GM's principal competitors in passenger cars and trucks in the United States and Canada include Ford Motor Company, DaimlerChrysler Corporation, Toyota Corporation, Nissan Motor Corporation, Ltd., Honda Motor Company, Ltd., Mazda Motor Corporation, Mitsubishi Motors Corporation, Volkswagen A.G. Hyundai Motor Company, Ltd. and Bayerische Motoren Werke AG.
11-03-2003, 06:15 PM
#85
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
General Motors, Detroit
General Motors (NYSE: GM), the world's largest vehicle manufacturer, designs, builds and markets cars and trucks worldwide. In 2001, GM earned $1.5 billion on sales of $177.3 billion, excluding special items. It employs about 362,000 people globally.
GM has been the world’s automotive sales leader since 1931. In 2001, GM set industry sales records in the United States – its largest market – for total trucks and for sport utility vehicles. GM sold more than 1 million SUVs – a first for any automaker. GM also sold more full-size pickup trucks than any other manufacturer since 1978.
GM also operates one of the world’s largest and most successful financial services companies, GMAC, which offers automotive, mortgage and business financing and insurance services to customers worldwide.
General Motors Headquarter in Detroit
In 2001, GM sold more than 8.5 million cars and trucks - more than any other automaker and 15.1 percent of the world vehicle market. GM's major markets are North America, Europe, Asia-Pacific, Latin America, Africa and the Middle East.
GM cars and trucks are sold under the following brands: Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, GMC, Saturn, Hummer, Saab, Opel, Vauxhall and Holden. GM parts and accessories are marketed under the GM, GM Goodwrench and ACDelco brands through GM Service Parts Operations.
GM’s OnStar is the industry leader in vehicle communications and information services. It provides more than 2 million subscribers with a variety of services, including personalized assistance, emergency aid, and hands-free, voice-activated access to Internet-based information, including news, sports, weather, e-mail and stock quotes. The Personal Calling service provides hands-free, voice-activated, cellular phone access. OnStar is available on many GM cars and trucks, as well as select vehicles built by Lexus, Acura and Subaru.
GM’s major subsidiaries are Hughes Electronics Corp., GM Locomotive Group and Allison Transmission Division.
As part of its global growth strategy, the GM Group includes major alliances with Fiat Auto SpA, Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., Isuzu Motors Ltd. and Suzuki Motor Corp. GM also has strong technology collaborations with Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co., and vehicle ventures with Toyota and Renault SA.
General Motors (NYSE: GM), the world's largest vehicle manufacturer, designs, builds and markets cars and trucks worldwide. In 2001, GM earned $1.5 billion on sales of $177.3 billion, excluding special items. It employs about 362,000 people globally.
GM has been the world’s automotive sales leader since 1931. In 2001, GM set industry sales records in the United States – its largest market – for total trucks and for sport utility vehicles. GM sold more than 1 million SUVs – a first for any automaker. GM also sold more full-size pickup trucks than any other manufacturer since 1978.
GM also operates one of the world’s largest and most successful financial services companies, GMAC, which offers automotive, mortgage and business financing and insurance services to customers worldwide.
General Motors Headquarter in Detroit
In 2001, GM sold more than 8.5 million cars and trucks - more than any other automaker and 15.1 percent of the world vehicle market. GM's major markets are North America, Europe, Asia-Pacific, Latin America, Africa and the Middle East.
GM cars and trucks are sold under the following brands: Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, GMC, Saturn, Hummer, Saab, Opel, Vauxhall and Holden. GM parts and accessories are marketed under the GM, GM Goodwrench and ACDelco brands through GM Service Parts Operations.
GM’s OnStar is the industry leader in vehicle communications and information services. It provides more than 2 million subscribers with a variety of services, including personalized assistance, emergency aid, and hands-free, voice-activated access to Internet-based information, including news, sports, weather, e-mail and stock quotes. The Personal Calling service provides hands-free, voice-activated, cellular phone access. OnStar is available on many GM cars and trucks, as well as select vehicles built by Lexus, Acura and Subaru.
GM’s major subsidiaries are Hughes Electronics Corp., GM Locomotive Group and Allison Transmission Division.
As part of its global growth strategy, the GM Group includes major alliances with Fiat Auto SpA, Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., Isuzu Motors Ltd. and Suzuki Motor Corp. GM also has strong technology collaborations with Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co., and vehicle ventures with Toyota and Renault SA.
11-03-2003, 06:16 PM
#86
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Notice it says:
"GM cars and trucks are sold under the following brands"
Not Saab happens to be sold under the GM name. But I am sure for some it's still not clear. No problem.
"GM cars and trucks are sold under the following brands"
Not Saab happens to be sold under the GM name. But I am sure for some it's still not clear. No problem.
11-03-2003, 06:21 PM
#87
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
From Saab's global site:
The Company:
Ownership
General Motors
Chairman & CEO
Peter Augustsson
Head Office
Trollhättan, Sweden
No. of Employees
8,358 (2002)
No. of cars sold 120,800 (2002)
Saab was bought by GM in 1990.
The Company:
Ownership
General Motors
Chairman & CEO
Peter Augustsson
Head Office
Trollhättan, Sweden
No. of Employees
8,358 (2002)
No. of cars sold 120,800 (2002)
Saab was bought by GM in 1990.
11-03-2003, 06:59 PM
#88
I know one thing that is a total import ...........ME I am German .Oh and Ferrari I believe does not actually own the term "GTO" or "GRAN TURISMO OMOLOGATO" .GT actually stands for Grand Touring which is a class of competition car .Omologato actually means the car was homologated as a "production car"
.In order for a car manufacturer to compete in the GT class the car had to be produced in enough quantities to be considered a true production car .Ferrari was caught technically cheating with the 250 "GTO" as they were counting chassis numbers that were actually not really part of the series of cars called the 250 GTO .However they were eventually permitted to compete anyway .In a similar fashion Ferrari marketed a car commonly known as a "Daytona" (miami vice star car for those who remember) .However the Ferrari never called the car a "Daytona" it was actually known as the 365 GTB/4 and the 365 GTS/4 .The GTO was actually designated 250 Gran Turismo Berlinetta Competizione .
Just some silly trivia to break up things up a bit
Jens
I am German .Oh and Ferrari I believe does not actually own the term "GTO" or "GRAN TURISMO OMOLOGATO" .GT actually stands for Grand Touring which is a class of competition car .Omologato actually means the car was homologated as a "production car".In order for a car manufacturer to compete in the GT class the car had to be produced in enough quantities to be considered a true production car .Ferrari was caught technically cheating with the 250 "GTO" as they were counting chassis numbers that were actually not really part of the series of cars called the 250 GTO .However they were eventually permitted to compete anyway .In a similar fashion Ferrari marketed a car commonly known as a "Daytona" (miami vice star car for those who remember) .However the Ferrari never called the car a "Daytona" it was actually known as the 365 GTB/4 and the 365 GTS/4 .The GTO was actually designated 250 Gran Turismo Berlinetta Competizione .
Just some silly trivia to break up things up a bit
Jens
11-03-2003, 07:40 PM
#91
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally posted by Jens H.
I know one thing that is a total import ...........ME I am German .Oh and Ferrari I believe does not actually own the term "GTO" or "GRAN TURISMO OMOLOGATO" .GT actually stands for Grand Touring which is a class of competition car .Omologato actually means the car was homologated as a "production car"
.In order for a car manufacturer to compete in the GT class the car had to be produced in enough quantities to be considered a true production car .Ferrari was caught technically cheating with the 250 "GTO" as they were counting chassis numbers that were actually not really part of the series of cars called the 250 GTO .However they were eventually permitted to compete anyway .In a similar fashion Ferrari marketed a car commonly known as a "Daytona" (miami vice star car for those who remember) .However the Ferrari never called the car a "Daytona" it was actually known as the 365 GTB/4 and the 365 GTS/4 .The GTO was actually designated 250 Gran Turismo Berlinetta Competizione .
Just some silly trivia to break up things up a bit
Jens
I know one thing that is a total import ...........ME
I am German .Oh and Ferrari I believe does not actually own the term "GTO" or "GRAN TURISMO OMOLOGATO" .GT actually stands for Grand Touring which is a class of competition car .Omologato actually means the car was homologated as a "production car".In order for a car manufacturer to compete in the GT class the car had to be produced in enough quantities to be considered a true production car .Ferrari was caught technically cheating with the 250 "GTO" as they were counting chassis numbers that were actually not really part of the series of cars called the 250 GTO .However they were eventually permitted to compete anyway .In a similar fashion Ferrari marketed a car commonly known as a "Daytona" (miami vice star car for those who remember) .However the Ferrari never called the car a "Daytona" it was actually known as the 365 GTB/4 and the 365 GTS/4 .The GTO was actually designated 250 Gran Turismo Berlinetta Competizione .
Just some silly trivia to break up things up a bit
Jens
What I said was the Ferrari was the one that used the denotation GTO on a car.
11-03-2003, 07:42 PM
#92
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally posted by fahoumh
alright, how about we just agree to disagree.
alright, how about we just agree to disagree.
My point is, can you back up your base argument, cos I can back up mine. All I see from you is "sayings" and attacks.
11-03-2003, 07:43 PM
#93
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Washington DC (NOVA)
Age: 52
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally posted by ABreece
NO, i want a flamewar dammit! :flamer:
NO, i want a flamewar dammit! :flamer:
11-03-2003, 07:44 PM
#94
Powered By HONDA
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Somewhere
Age: 49
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by gavriil
The X type is also made in England. And one of the factories actually is probably closing due to low demand. But so what?
The X type is also made in England. And one of the factories actually is probably closing due to low demand. But so what?
it does not matter where the car is made..
our cls is made in usa..however, this is a japanese car manufacture..the funny thing is..there is no cl model in japan
as cl is designed and manufactured in usa..
but japan does have tl lol
correct me if i am wrong..
peace..dude
11-03-2003, 07:47 PM
#95
Shogun Assassin
Originally posted by gavriil
If it's not totally obvious by now that we disagree, then I dont know what....
My point is, can you back up your base argument, cos I can back up mine. All I see from you is "sayings" and attacks.
If it's not totally obvious by now that we disagree, then I dont know what....
My point is, can you back up your base argument, cos I can back up mine. All I see from you is "sayings" and attacks.
11-03-2003, 08:06 PM
#96
Censored User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Miami - just one day, I would like to drive without getting cut off!
Age: 56
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very good info. I think we've gotten away from the original subject. I speak only for myself though. I never argued whether or the or not the foreign based companies are American owned. Only whether or not their products are imports or not. Obviously if they were bought out by an American company the are American now. Primarily by ownership, secondly by management. I understand what you're saying very clearly, but the answer to the original question remains in the gray area. Best as I can put it: American onwership, American management ideals, foreign built (at least partially), imported product; or, Foriegn ownership, Foreign designs, probably hybrid management ideals, domestically built product. I just don't think there's a cut and dry answer unless the actual owners define them, or some other authority. Which would probably not be worth it considering the way that many foreigners see Americans. Whatever these cars are I know a foreign designed car when I see one though.
just my 2 cents.
just my 2 cents.
Originally posted by gavriil
Just a primer:
General Motors Automotive
General Motors participates in the automotive industry through the activities of its automotive business operating segment General Motors Automotive (GMA). GMA is comprised of four regions: GM North America (GMNA), GM Europe (GME), GM Latin America/Africa/Mid-East (GMLAAM) and GM Asia Pacific (GMAP).
GMNA designs, manufactures and/or markets vehicles primarily in North America. Its products are offered under the Chevrolet, Pontiac, GMC, Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac, Saturn and HUMMER names.
GME, GMLAAM and GMAP meet the demands of customers outside North America with vehicles designed, manufactured and/or marketed under the following nameplates: Opel, Vauxhall, Holden, Saab, Buick, Chevrolet, GMC, and Cadillac. GM's automotive regions also have equity ownership in Fiat Auto Holdings (FAH), Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., Suzuki Motor Corporation (Suzuki), Isuzu Motors Limited, Shanghai General Motors Corporation (SGM), SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Company Ltd. and GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Company (GM Daewoo). These investees design, manufacture and market vehicles under the following nameplates: Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Subaru, Suzuki, Isuzu, Buick, Wuling, Daewoo and, commencing in 2003, Chevrolet.
Substantially all automotive-related products are marketed through retail dealers and distributors in the United States, Canada and Mexico, as well as through distributors and dealers overseas. As of December 31, 2002, there were approximately 7,790 GM vehicle dealers in the United States, 800 in Canada and 210 in Mexico. Additionally, there were a total of approximately 11,800 outlets overseas, which included dealers and authorized sales, service and parts outlets.
GM's principal competitors in passenger cars and trucks in the United States and Canada include Ford Motor Company, DaimlerChrysler Corporation, Toyota Corporation, Nissan Motor Corporation, Ltd., Honda Motor Company, Ltd., Mazda Motor Corporation, Mitsubishi Motors Corporation, Volkswagen A.G. Hyundai Motor Company, Ltd. and Bayerische Motoren Werke AG.
Just a primer:
General Motors Automotive
General Motors participates in the automotive industry through the activities of its automotive business operating segment General Motors Automotive (GMA). GMA is comprised of four regions: GM North America (GMNA), GM Europe (GME), GM Latin America/Africa/Mid-East (GMLAAM) and GM Asia Pacific (GMAP).
GMNA designs, manufactures and/or markets vehicles primarily in North America. Its products are offered under the Chevrolet, Pontiac, GMC, Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac, Saturn and HUMMER names.
GME, GMLAAM and GMAP meet the demands of customers outside North America with vehicles designed, manufactured and/or marketed under the following nameplates: Opel, Vauxhall, Holden, Saab, Buick, Chevrolet, GMC, and Cadillac. GM's automotive regions also have equity ownership in Fiat Auto Holdings (FAH), Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., Suzuki Motor Corporation (Suzuki), Isuzu Motors Limited, Shanghai General Motors Corporation (SGM), SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Company Ltd. and GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Company (GM Daewoo). These investees design, manufacture and market vehicles under the following nameplates: Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Subaru, Suzuki, Isuzu, Buick, Wuling, Daewoo and, commencing in 2003, Chevrolet.
Substantially all automotive-related products are marketed through retail dealers and distributors in the United States, Canada and Mexico, as well as through distributors and dealers overseas. As of December 31, 2002, there were approximately 7,790 GM vehicle dealers in the United States, 800 in Canada and 210 in Mexico. Additionally, there were a total of approximately 11,800 outlets overseas, which included dealers and authorized sales, service and parts outlets.
GM's principal competitors in passenger cars and trucks in the United States and Canada include Ford Motor Company, DaimlerChrysler Corporation, Toyota Corporation, Nissan Motor Corporation, Ltd., Honda Motor Company, Ltd., Mazda Motor Corporation, Mitsubishi Motors Corporation, Volkswagen A.G. Hyundai Motor Company, Ltd. and Bayerische Motoren Werke AG.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rockyboy
2G RDX (2013-2018)
46
01-25-2016 06:00 PM
joflewbyu2
5G TLX (2015-2020)
139
10-08-2015 11:16 AM
