CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

I say it's weird because this has been going on for months. It started in about January, I don't drive my car in the winter, but I turn it over every so often to keep it running. It stopped turning over, so I figured the battery was dead, swapped in a new one, starts right up.

Fast forward a few months, car won't turn over again. Battery is only months old, but I figure it isn't holding the charge, maybe it sat too long. Swapped in a new battery, and it fires right up.

Fast forward to May, battery is only weeks old at this point, won't turn over. I try jumping it, I try checking the obvious, nothing. Then it turns over. Basically sometimes it starts, sometimes it doesn't. The car cranks hard but it won't turn over. Then it turns over sometimes. And when it is on, and driving, it is perfectly fine.

Took it to the mechanic and he check all the obvious, fuel pressure, etc. Said he couldn't find a thing wrong and it turned over every time they tried, figures.

So here I am, with a big paper weight, that won't start. Any suggestions? Basically it sat a lot of the winter, but why would that keep it from turning over? I always kept the tank full of fresh 93 octane.

Things I'm going to try:
-Spark plugs
-Fuel pump
-Fuel injectors

Any other ideas? Car has original starter and alternator (2001 with over 100,000 miles) but like I said, it cranks hard.

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

The fuel pump can be heard coming on when you put the key in accessories. If the car ran, then it can't be that.

Check the ground on your battery.

Check the solenoid on the starter.

Go have your alternator tested. A new battery will crank over the engine, only for so long if the alternator isn't recharging it properly.

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

i have a feeling its the alternator as well.

m733l

iTrader: (1)

sounds like something in the car is draining the battery. anything left on after you start the car? the alt sounds okay cuz you mentioned that if you drive it regularly it's fine. do you have many accessories in your car? lights, nav, sound system (esp big amps), guages, radar detector, alarm system? sometimes these accessories can drain the car if it has a bad ground or a bad circuit.

swiftt5389

id bet on the alternator as well.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

radar detector is turned off. i disconnected my power wire to my amp for the sub.

only things running are the built-in clock, in-dash radio, and alarm. but i find it hard to believe it will kill a brand new battery in a week.

how hard is it to pull alternator? it's right in the front, can i pull it without removing anything else?

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

I was able to remove mine without removing anything else, but I can't speak for the 2nd gen.

rp_guy

you should do a check to see how much drain there is with the car off (aka just the relays and clock accessories).. might have something hooked in you don't know about.. and you can check the voltage of the alt/charging system.. should be 12.2+ volts i believe

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

what would be hooked up i don't know about, i've owned this car since 2004 and have been inside and out of it. it has been starting fine, now it's not, nothing has changed, and i've actually disconnected a few of my accessories which might drain it.

that's what i don't understand, i don't think this is a battery/drain issue because it won't even start when i try to jump it.

one other symptom i forgot to mention, sometimes the first time i try to start it in a day, it starts up a tiny bit and rumbles, and just dies, almost like it's not getting gas.

Jimcoold99

Sounds like you have a short somewhere if its draining the battery that quick..I believe there is a way to check that just disconnect the negative post and touch it and see if theres any sparks? or maybe its the possitive?? if sparks then you have something drawing a current..its a trick my dad taught me a few years back. but its been a while so im not sure which terminal to pull =/ someone help me out here i know someone knows of this trick =/

rp_guy

that won't work on a current car.. so much electronics/relays that there will always be a drain of some sort (and thus a spark no matter what). that's why you have to check how much drain there is if you have accessories.. there is a certain 'allowable' amount so that you don't drain the battery..

but yeah, then it sounds like the charging system isn't up to snuff

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

again, can pretty much eliminate alternator/battery drain because even a jump/recharge has no effect.

rp_guy

i'll just shut up now

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

fuel pump? i know people do cut offs for the fuel pump. might be faulty?

victorvu

iTrader: (1)

well usually when you dont drive the car for that long i would recommend removing the negative. but sounds more of an alternator problem. remove the positive line and if the car dies its the alternator if not the its your battery.

fsttyms1

If it cranks slow or hard its due to the battery not having enough charge. There is either something draining it or its not fully being charged. Get the car running and test the alt to make sure its outputting what it should be. Also maybe have a battery place or shop load test the battery. I had a faulty temp sensor on my TL that would cause the battery to go dead in about 3 days.

Moodist

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like the symptoms of a bad starter. It is probably shorting the system.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

even if that was the case, why wouldn't a jump/recharge start the car?

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

i'm leaning towards this. this is the first thing the HELMs says to troubleshoot when the car won't start. i know the ground and power connections are good to the battery and starter, but i'm guessing the solenoid is shot. helms wants me to troubleshoot it with the car running but i can't get the car started.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

This sounds like a bad cable or ground connection to me.

Try to jumper the starter. Run 1 side of a jumper cable from the + battery post to the hot post of the starter.

LukeaTron

Check the spark plugs to see if you're getting a nice bright blue spark when you turn the engine over. If the engine is cranking strongly when being jumped I would think the starter is fine. The alternator is not a likely culprit since it doesn't contribute significantly to the charging until the RPMs are above 2.5 k or so. You can test the alternator easily by applying a volt meter across the battery terminals while you have an assistant hold the revs at about 3,000. You should see 13.5 to 14.5 volts, the exact spec will be in the shop manual but that's generally where a 12 volt battery needs to be to charge correctly.

So things to check in order of easiest and most likely are plugs for condition and spark. Check the drawl on the battery by disconnecting the positive terminal and bridging it with your amp meter with the key out of the ignition. The max allowable drawl rate will be in the shop manual. If you're car is leaking current while off it can damage the battery to let it completely lose its charge. You get calcification on the lead plates and it blocks the flow of current into and out of the electrolyte.

If all that electrical stuff checks out move on to fuel and compression.

LukeaTron

Oh yeah, I was thinking that too but I forgot to put it in my post. Check the condition of the terminals on the battery cables. With all the battery changing you've been doing they might just be worn out and no longer fitting snuggly. They're made of soft lead so they get loose over time and that is only accelerated by frequently messing with them.

Moodist

iTrader: (2)

After you try to start the car, see if the starter is getting hot to the touch. A short in the starter would cause it to draw power, hence the heat.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

it gets scalding.

Moodist

iTrader: (2)

It has got to be the starter then, you should remove it and open it up. Most likely you will see burnt up wires. I am surprised you never smelled a nasty electrical burning smell while starting your car.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

my car has smelled like a lot of things.

i'll give it a shot, it's pretty simple to pull off.

thanks everyone, i'll report back.

Allout

It sounds like the starter to me too. Bad spot on the armature or bad brushes in the starter will cause exactly that symptom. If it happens again, can you pound on the starter with a stick or bat? It’s a trick I learned from a tow truck driver to get a bad starter to turn over.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

is it possible for a bad starter to drain the battery as well?

Moodist

iTrader: (2)

^ If there is a short, yes. You'll most likely see the dashboard light dim to nothing when trying to crank the car.

Jimcoold99

Yeah my dads truck did this..the starter was shorting out. And he used the trick i said..disconnect the post and check for a spark..you will notice a pretty decent spark i believe. But im pretty sure like the others have stated its the starter..

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

yea, it's weird, i've noticed the dashboard has been dimly lit recently. and when i try to crank it, the dash sometime fades in and out. oh boy, new starter is $300.

Jimcoold99

Hell man id try for a junkyard..lol or maybe ebay ?

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

i don't know, i'm a believer in replacing it with a new factory part, it's warrantied and guaranteed to work with the car.

Jimcoold99

Yea i can understand where ur coming from but with a quick search on ebay brings me to this..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-...3756.m20.l1116

Says it comes with a lifetime warranty..so yea. maybe that will help.

rp_guy

at least you don't have a 6; add $100 to that price

Allout

Yes. And it's possible for a bad starter to ruin a good battery too. When a starter goes bad, it can draw an excessive amount of amperage out of the battery - thus the heat you were feeling coming off of the starter.

I had no idea that they were $300. How many miles do you have on this starter? Is it your original?

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

original from my 2001, over 100,000 miles. i guess i shouldn't be surprised. it's like $287 for a factory reman. there are other options but i hate going off market brands and junkyards. one from acura will last me another 8 years and 100,000 miles, by then the car should be dead.

Allout

I'm kind of like you. Some items I would rather buy OEM since I've had good luck with them. Starters and Alternators are on that list. On my 300ZX, the factory starter is original - 230K miles and 22 years old.

I found a strange thing when I bought a factory Acura alternator. The brand new one was cheaper than the remanufactured one and I didn't need to return the core. The down side of the new alternator was that it only had a 12 month warranty and the remanufactured one was either 24 or 36 months. I went with the new and figured that any problems would probably show up in the first months of use anyways.