Does anyone else find it odd that although the vast majority of us aren't experiencing any tranny problems, there are some people who have blown multiple trannys?

I mean, by current estimates 2% of the a-cl forum members have had tranny problems. There is one person on here on his
third tranny. So that's a what - 0.0008% probability? And wouldn't you expect the tranny, the only part in japan, to be the most reliable part?

So perhaps it's not the tranny going bad, but it's something else in the car causing the tranny to explode? And putting a new tranny is only fixing the symptom, and not the problem?

(and before the flames begin, I'm not implying it's the driver)

 

Regardless of my past, I *can* be an adult about this.

Interesting points, but as someone who has experienced this first-hand, I'll put my two cents in.

1. "Does anyone else find it odd that although the vast majority of us aren't experiencing any tranny problems, there are some people who have blown multiple trannys?"

To this, I say you aren't experiencing any problems *yet*. As a DOM of 02/00, I really thought I was in the clear past 25K miles due to many of the first failures happening within 15K miles. Sadly, I was wrong. I've talked to many people at my dealership and this ailment strikes young and old trannies alike. I made it to 29K miles, one TL-S gave out at 5K, another at 13K. A woman in her mid-forties who couldn't even operate the SS lost hers at only 1,500 miles. I think that this is completely random, chaotic act.

2. "So perhaps it's not the tranny going bad, but it's something else in the car causing the tranny to explode? And putting a new tranny is only fixing the symptom, and not the problem?"

Again, interesting concept, but what could it be? It can't be the 232 lb. ft. of torque, otherwise every single one of us would have blown the tranny within hours of leaving the dealership. Is it the electronic control of the shift? I really don't think so. It's not like the thing was randomly grabbing first from fourth and wailing like a banshee. The poor shifting is a characteristic of the impending doom. Swapping out the shifting solenoids is the first step to tranny replacement. My dealer did it to mine, but said in the same breath, "this WILL NOT fix the problem."

My thoughts are this. Second gear is imploding and/or disintegrating. Picture this. The second to third shift gets REALLY bad, or doesn't happen at all. Suddenly, you have no forward momentum as the engine revs freely to 7500 RPM. The tranny goes into safe mode and displays "2" on the dash. This is bullshit. When you hit 6000 RPM at 25 mph you are in FIRST. I had to drive the car for another 1-2 miles just to get off the road after it went into safe-mode, and there is no fucking way I was in second. Acura WILL NOT let the dealerships tear down the trannies AT ALL. They have to send them out to the Honda engineers to rebuild and fix whatever the fuck is wrong and then back they come to you, or I, or anyone else waiting for a replacement.

Thank you for your time, and may the Force be with you. ;D

 

Here's one more thing to think about that may lend some credibility to my theory. Of all the members who had their tranny replaced, did the 1>2 shift before the failure produce a glorious and powerful chirp of the tires? Mine pulled like a champ and would literally try to rip the engine off it's mounts when it made the 1>2 auto-shift back in the day. I thought it was the sign of a really kick-ass drivetrain...

Maybe now, looking back, that wasn't such a good thing.

 

I haven't had any problems yet at 4800 miles. I have a 4/01 MOD date. I've been keeping up with the tranny problems on this site but to anyone's annecdotal knowledge, has any car after 4/01 have problems?

 

No way this is completely random.

I'm 99% sure Acura is aware of the premature failure and that they already have a theory as to why. They have all the data and information they need to make a fairly educationed guess. It could be as simple as a batch of parts that have to propensity to fail. Or it could be something as complicated as the combination of certain conditions working together to cause catastrophic failure.

In any case, it certainly appears to be random to customers but it is far from random to designers and engineers. Rarely do such issues remain a mystery these days.

Again, we don't have to data but problems can probably be traced to a source of bad parts. I might be speaking prematurely but I honestly don't believe that my tranny (from new to now 44k miles) can blow at any moment or at any time; no more so than any other "normal" tranny in any other type of vehicle. I'm not buying it.

 

I'm going to stick by the theory there's a problem with the shift computer that slowly eats away trannies in cars with the shift computer problem. Eventually the computer goes completely nuts and wont put the tranny into certain gears or jams it into gears, etc.

That's my guess.

 

To this, I say you aren't experiencing any problems *yet*.
Well, the dead tranny count is certainly growing, albeit slowly.
Currently 40 people so far.

I think that this is completely random, chaotic act.
Well, everything has its reason. If something breaks, and you have the engineers looking at it, then given enough evidence/samples the point of failure CAN be determined.

However, for mere consumers like us we'll never know what the
problem is. If there is a weak part then certainly it can be fixed.
Who konws when that'll be, tho.

Second gear is imploding and/or disintegrating.
Hmm. I wonder how many people were having problems specifically with second gear?

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I don't know when my car was manufactured (how do you tell? I can't find it anywhere on the window sticker...I'll look in the FAQ)...

Anyway, my ride has just over 13k miles and it's at the dealership right now waiting for them to inspect the transmission. They are letting it sit tonight so they can drive it "cold" in the morning. That's when my tranny generally acts up. It's usually fine (although a little bit rougher than day one) so I hope they can duplicate the problem.

My car does the kick-ass 1st to 2nd gear chirping tires/pulling like a Dodge Viper maneuver too. I just thought it was due to having a beastly engine with kick-ass technology. Is that a bad thing? I mean, I know it's harder on the car than driving like a soccer mom, but it is really that bad?

I know how to control a car...I know how/when to shift, how to perform engine braking, apexing a corner, heel-toe driving (not in my auto cl-s of course), etc., but I'm not an engineer. Not having a very firm understanding of how transmissions really work (mechanically), I always wondered why they couldn't make a car have that much pick-up all the time? I mean the amount of pickup as described in the previous paragraph. Why only between shifts? I'm sure the answer is a simple one, but I'd rather just speculate....it's more fun to imagine.

Sometimes it totally slips between 1st and 2nd though. That's when I have to quickly lay off the fun-paddle or it feels like I'll send the pistons shooting through the hood! vrooooooooooooooooooooooooom!!!!

Boy, this sure turned into a ramble...

Anyway, I'll let y'all know the prognosis of my baby tomorrow.

 

Ken, I'm not referring to the tranny in general and maybe I should have been clearer, but I stand by the belief that there is a defective part (WTF it is, I have no idea) in *some* trannies that's failure is completely unpredictable and can go at any time, whether that be 1K, 25K or 50K miles.

 

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My work is in Areospace Reliability Engineering and I have worked with Automotive Engineers doing failure analysis. They "know" why our trans fail. In Areospace, after two failures we work a corrective action. Now a thing called "accounting" gets involved and they determine what is the most cost effective way to fix field units. Unfortunatly with this failure Acura will wait until you complain. This only applies if a failure is non life threating. You have to think $$$$$ to Acura, that is why they are in business. Now don't flame me I will be just as if my trans goes too.

 

actually i totally agree.

the reason is this:
i took my car in to tustin acura on the 20th of september because my transmission went out. i finally got it back on the 8th of november and supposedly everything would be fine. however, a week later, same symptoms occur and i bring my car again. turns out that the transmission computer was to blame, so they changed the computer and tested it out once more. however, i still couldn't get my car back because they said that the new transmission has been damaged and will need yet ANOTHER replacement. now i'm waiting on my 3rd transmission... i'm really crossing my fingers on this one...

seriously, how could my 2nd transmission be damaged within a week's worth of driving? i admit, i have a lead foot, but i was driving like a grandpa with my 2nd transmission thinking i needed to at least break it in a little. i think the problem isn't the transmission itself, it's the electronics that control it.

 

How do you guys put icons in the middle of your sentences? I want to be cool like you guys.

 

My icon is cool

 

It's called F.A.Q.

 

Do you mean like this ?

 

RE: no dealer diags -- to bad, there are a number of inspection ports where the dealer (if so inclined) can check the fluid pressure acting on the various clutch-packs. (see Helms 14-128)

IMO -- the gears are NOT the problem. The clutch--packs are not engaging due to lack of pressure of due to their being worn out from poor operation, too much torque, or contamination from one or more parts gumming up the solenoids and/or other fluid control devices that control clutch engagement/disengagement...


BTW -- the power flow is through a "set" of gears.

1st gear: 3rd gear -> 1st gear -> final drive gear

2nd gear: 3rd gear -> 2nd gear -> final drive gear

3rd gear: 3rd gear -> final drive gear

4th gear: 4th gear -> final drive gear

5th gear: 5th gear -> final drive gear


(I've left out all of the mainshaft, countershaft, and secondary shaft issues...)

232 ft-lbs of torque is being reduced or increased depending on the effective ratio IN the transmission due to current gearing. The number of clutch plates are increased for lower gears.. The slip issues point more at the shift logic (and pressures) and/or worn clutch plates.

Also, there is always going to be "random" failures mixed-in. So, there can always be a "grandma" driver who has a tranny fail at 1000 miles due to some "random" failure.

I have been watching and it "seems" that a lot of the failures are slipping type failures in the lower gears.


The most interesting point I find regards Astroboy (Mr. High Speed AKA Chuck Yeager) -- he had a ton of miles on his CLS. The question was -- did he drive at high speed on the freeway (the bulk of the time) *or* did he do a lot of brutal 1-2-3 runs. He said his tranny was fine!


Finally, I wonder who is going to have their fluid sent off to a lab to see if there is metal in the ATF…

 

Ok, agreed.

 

icons in a sentence try some of these:

 

thats why i am going to change the fluid every 7500 miles
and there is always some metal contaminates in the fluid, thats why transmission pans have magnets in them

 

Road Rage over on the TL-forum suggests buying the small bottles of the Honda ATF fluid and turning them over to allow the additives to "remix" in the bottle.

I also plan to purge the fluid. If there is crud (as in metal particles), the solenoids, valves, and other "controls" could have a problem controlling the engagement and disengagement of the clutch packs -- this could ruin them.

By analysis, I knew there was going to be various elements -- I don't see why a good quantitative and qualitative analysis could hurt. What if the pieces were put together to identify a critical part (or parts) that were showing undue wear?

Regarding the magnet – it is a permanent magnet (not an AC electromagnet) and as such, would have trouble picking up non-ferrous metals.