gerzand

iTrader: (3)

I had mentioned to RichardParker that I spoke to the designer of the cam, and these are intended for higher compression ratio builds. Now that this cam profile has been sold to a much more strict name in performance cams, they refuse to grind it uless you prove your setup to them.

typeR

the two things id check first is a leak down and timing id do leak down first loss of compression could reveal a timing issue... and if it came down to it wouldnt it be cheaper and easier to pull the heads and have them milled to achieve higher compression then to disgard the new cams

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Good thought on the leakdown test but thing is there cant be a timing issue unless the belt is off some number of teeth on this motor or a head gasket isnt sealing properly, as the cams will fit the same on all j series head through the 3.7 mdx engine head single side vtec head. Additionally, something else to keep in mind is that the absolute furthest you can deck these heads is 25 thousandths. Thats only going to give you a point and a half in compression, assuming stock pistons/rods (aka- best scenario).

Just some info, dont mean to seem all knowing

phee

iTrader: (5)

It's simply not going to run without higher Comp + tune. wish i would have seen which cams you were going with, i would have told you it wasnt going to run without at least adding more fuel during idle and timing advance.\


edit: sorry for the slight repost. just saw gerzands post on the previous page

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

I think I'm going to get some 03 cls or 07 tls oem cams for now to get the motor to run then I'll either get back to the cams or sell them.
I would hate to damage the motor just cranking the shit out of it before it even gets running.

07 tls oem cams will have no starting issue's for me, Right ?

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Thats correct. They are tried and true..will make good power for you, just wont be noise makers

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

I want the lumpy sound.
I guess it's not practical right now

typeR

so what was the trick the comptech supercharger kit had those guys do ? something about crushing the fuel pressure reg to get higher psi ?

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

^^yep, but it was a ghetto solution at best from Comptech. Its part of the reason the car never ran right, with the actual issue being that they never addressed the lack of a tuning solution which could not work around the starvation issues/surging that would occur during half throttle when you were trapped in closed loop fuel delivery (except when open loop at WOT). Alot of motors were destroyed on the 3G TL's due to this.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

rear seal was fine.
The dam rubber o ring under the the rear seal cover slipped out the groove when I tightend it causing the leak.
Ordering o ring,and 08 tls cams right now.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Had some time today. my son played with the neibors kids for a while.
Everything thats needs to be out ,is.
Let see how fast hondapartsunlimited takes to over night my replacements.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

talked to honda today they only have one cam and the other is back ordered with no release date.
WTF thought I would be installing them today.
Might have to do the 03's if I can't find any.
He says there is none in the country witch I find that hard to beleive.
So if a 3rd gen snaps or wares out a cam their car will be down till when ever they make some ?


Any other cam options that work besides 03 cls ?
Seen people were talking about rl cams here and there but,I did not see anyone say they were running them.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Any accord or other cams have the same specs or hotter specs than the 08 tls in a oem camshafts ?

WBA-01

iTrader: (2)

This is very common for honda to have parts go in and out of back order, I can get a release date on monday if you shoot me the part number that's back ordered. Also the dealership is able to upgrade a parts order if the car is down due to a backordered part.

I would suggest just throwing in your 03 type s cams, to try and start this project. This would also help with your cam senors since you would be able to take out the shims added, eliminating a possible weak cam signal.

I think the newer TL SH-AWD have a little more than the TLs. The 08 TLs has the same cam lobe height as the 05 Rl. If you don't have the heights here is the specs, also if you need other specs just shoot me a PM.

Cam lobe height J37A4 (TL SH-AWD 2010-2012)
Intake primary
34.299 mm (1.35035 in)

Intake secondary
35.932 mm (1.41464 in)


Exhaust primary
36.734 mm (1.44622 in)


Exhaust secondary
37.370 mm (1.47126 in)



Cam lobe height J35A8 (TLs & 05+ RL)

Intake, primary
35.112 mm (1.3824 in.)
---

Intake, secondary
36.394 mm (1.4328 in.)
---

Exhaust
36.389 mm (1.4326 in.)

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

thanks for the help.
The guy at honda unlimited told me to call monday and he might be able to tell me. If you want to check for me too that would be great.
Do you work at acura ?
I am unsure witch cam was the backordered one
14100-RDB-A00 or 14200-RBD-A00. He said they only had one so I was let down. Told him I would see if I could come up with a differnt option by the end of the day but,continue waiting on them till I make a choice.

I don't have any cls cams to attemp to install.
What ever cams I get I have to buy new.
I sold the cls cams I had to help pay for the web grinds.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

[quote=WBA-01;13513370]

I would suggest just throwing in your 03 type s cams, to try and start this project. This would also help with your cam senors since you would be able to take out the shims added, eliminating a possible weak cam signal.
[quote]

I put the cam back in to check the air gap with some play dough and micrometer and came up with about 0.030
And after reading around I came up differnt maufacters some say 0.005-0.015, 0.008-0.015 and some say 0.030
2 out of 3 say 0.015 is the max distance.
maybe I should try .015 air gap since that would be half the distance where it's at now.
By looking at the spark plug laying on the manifold before the spark looked weak.
Wrong air gap would lead to this wouldn't it ?
Also causing missfire and no starts ?

WBA-01

iTrader: (2)

Acura doesn't have a spec for the cam sensor to pick-up air gap spec, but they list Cam Shaft End play 0.05-0.20 mm (0.002-0.008 in.) so i would say that's the maximum gap you would want as well. I don't think it would cause a weaker spark, but could defiantly screw with the timing, and possible no spark at times. I know from watching cam signals on a scope that the ecu doesn't see everything thats put out by the sensors. I was having problems when i put in my FIC because it would magnify all the extra noise to the ecu and was causing extra pulses sent to the factory ecu. So if the signal is week it maybe overlooked all together by the factory ecu. Do your cam sensors actually hit the cam gear without the spacer's ?

typeR

[QUOTE=richardparker;13514123][quote=WBA-01;13513370]

I would suggest just throwing in your 03 type s cams, to try and start this project. This would also help with your cam senors since you would be able to take out the shims added, eliminating a possible weak cam signal.
how about swapping in any known cam rl/av6 that would still require the shimmed cam sensors and see if you dont experience the exact same start problems

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

It has seemed to me from the start you were out of your depth on this but I kept quiet. Is it possible this non start is a power greater than yourself trying to save your motor from destruction and it is time to get a trained professional to look at it?


I waited over a year to get my motor together because I was pretty sure I needed a professional involved.

I mean the above with no intent at any kind of slam or attempt at being mean on any level.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

I got the gap shimmed to .012 now and I am happy with that.
As long as the o ring under the rear seal cover stayed in place then time Im fine with any issues build wise.
The o ring sits in the groove losse and you have to stand up the cover and that sucks.

tunning the other cams is a nothing thing.

I will be getting the tls cams when they are available since all the spacers and shimming that had to go into it.


with spacers needed to correct cams the reluctor points will lock against the side of the sensors.
I did not start shimming for the hell of it ,just saying.

E30 I'm a little over my head dealing with custom lenth cams and cranks but, not re-building a engine.
A little measuring and figuring and it will all work out.
I'm just explaining all my woes,some would hide them and show the finished product but,why ?
If someone goes the same rought they will know ways to fix things the other guy has went through in advance.
I've never been one of those secret guys or a guy that gives wrong info or says things are harder to do than they are.
No offensive taken.
Just takes time since it's custom.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

I have been building engines & cars since I was 15. My stroker is custom in every critical component. (Crank, piston capacity, compression, valve size, Cam lobe and profile). Due to the tolerances and the fact that any mistakes could cause contact in numerous areas, I paid a pro.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Cams are getting release 2/02.
They say I should have them by friday.(fingers crossed)

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Started making my crankshaft sensor adjustable.
Since you can not adjust advance cheaply.
Cheaper for me this way and to bring the timming back as needed with a piggyback.

Sensor gap is at .034 if anyone is curious.

Kcocked out the stay pin.


Started making marks
1 is oem ,2 is the first advance mark ,and I will make a 3rd

A little more grinding here and there and I will have a 3rd mark for reference.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

How much initial timming can be advanced before the knock sensor will get envoled pulling timming back on this motor ?
+2 +4 degrees or more ?

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

6 degrees on the J32A3 ecu

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

6 degrees would be alot.
I'm willing to bet that would be worth just about .5 in the 1/4 mile,with most that gain coming in the 1/8 on a relatively stock engine.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

^^ well, there is a huge limiting factor here being the final drive ratio of the auto tranny. I went from 190 wheel horse with a 15.6@97 quarter mile to full bolt ons/pnp intake/stage II cam @ 320whp tuned to 26degrees of timing (which took much street tuning and experimentation at the strip to find out that was my magic number) and still only ran a 14.12@103mph. The trap speed is telling you that you have the horsepower, but the gearing holds you back from attaining good ET's.

But you're right, I gained .75 of a second in the 1/8th and the remainder up top. I managed a 2.1 60 ft...not too shabby for a 5AT.

Good shit.

typeR

dude not for nothing ... the auto is geared perfect ... one it fuel cuts at about 113mph in 3rd so good for low 12's ...i gained 24mph in the second 1/8th and still had a few rev's left crossing the line ... BTW this is also why i think getting this motor to spin 7500 would be beneficial

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

There is surely a good reason I sold my auto after stick by it for 4 years after many runs both stock and quite decently modified... Perhaps it was the 3rd gen TL's control over the transmission...because there is no reason my 3800lb auto could attain 320/276 yet not break a 14 second quarter mile unless its a 60ft issue or final drive ratio problem.

Just keeping this candid...What 5AT J series are you familiar with pulling 12's? What was the vehicle? How much did it weigh? What was the dyno'd hp/tq?

I have run the motor past 7500rpm, and there were no amazing results be seen. Sure, the larger aftermarket cam helped out so that there wasnt an immediate cliff-like drop in horsepower past the J32A3's *factory* peak of 6200 rpm, but the car never made anymore power past 6300 even on a full bolt on/cammed engine. I'm not saying that a different cam couldnt be designed for an N/A setup where it couldnt make more power at a higher RPM, but there is not one N/A J series out there that I have seen that makes power higher than this. On another topic that often comes up, lowering vtec engagement only hurts peak HP on the J series as shown by Rodney from J&RNextLevelPerformance.

Just my experience

typeR

my comment about 12's was that the 113mph limit of third gear

my dyno shows my peak power at almost 6500 rpms and im on a stock cam ... this is a mustang dyno so numbers tend to be lower than say dynojet ... i went 13.306 at 106 on stock auto 3400lbs with out driver

typeR

http://public.fotki.com/typeR/typer/dsc00029.html

typeR

just a handfull of my better passes the other 500 slips id threw out

phee

iTrader: (5)

you guys are forgetting to factor in elevation. Gerzand is in ohio and you are in florida Type R. I made ~260whp and my best time was a 13.9 in georgia 2200ft elevation and a 2.4 60' . in florida im sure my car could have hit 13.3-5

typeR

our heat and humidity hurts alot im sure enough to offset som elevation not so sure 2200 ft but anyway ... traditionally english town produces some of the fastest times in the country

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/p2r-accord-dyno-stock-j32a2-engine-801500/

Here is the dyno of the p2r accord. Peak power was at 6450. This is stock internals. The power doesn't start dropping off till after 6.9k.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Got all the adjustment I wanted and I am able to do the adjustment while having the air gap correct.

Just need to tap the block where the pin was so I can put a screw in.
I don't think it needs one but I am going to put one anyway.
I'm going to set it back to the oem setting at first then mess with it latter on.

WBA-01

iTrader: (2)

Have you figured out what you are going to do for engine management yet ?

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Either emanage or fic.
I was going to definitly do fic but,after checking peoples threads I'm not so sure.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Got the 08 tls sticks today.
These things have crazy lobe height.
The mids look like they are taller than the bearing journals.
using a pencil to go across 2 journals the mid lobe is higher.
I hope they fit without dinging the crap out of the bearings.
Their is not much room to go any higher with the lifts without doing regrinds.
Going to get some assembly fluid.
I hope I won't have to re shim the dam cam sensors again.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Finished building the motor today (again)
Decided to start the initial advance between the oem setting and the #2 mark I made.
I'm sure that will be fine to start with.

I just need to find a helping hand to drop it in and get it lined up.
Hope this time is the charm.
Should have all parts to hook up the fpr tomorrow.