JaredGMS

sidemarker

thanks for the suggestion i hope i dont have to go this far though!

but if i do have to fight this in court ill make sure to use your logic in the case...

sidemarker

liloj

i can be a witness

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

man- screw the word game, your wasting time. I would calm down a bit and talk with the dealship without getting excited. getting excited will not accomplish a thing and you'll just waste more time on here bitching about it. Work with the dealership and have them put it in writing that they don't think this was a suspension mod induced enging failure. write a strong letter to mastertech and push the point with them on the MM act and include the dealships response. Dont forget to document each and every conversation with whomever you talk with, date, time, person spoke with, and content. Finally, you will have to bring a lawyer into it, and you will have the documentation to proceed with your issue. it will take time and money, but if you want to really fuck mastertech, you will have to be patient. i do wish you good luck though.

C-Cook

ueberholen

I hate to be the guy that says this because in the past I have supported mods (and looked the other way frequently when disaster strikes ) but ...........What ever this Mastertech outfit is they declined the repair under the terms of their agreement with the owner of the vehicle .I find it highly unlikely these people would do that unless they know the law which I am fairly confident they do .I have to believe this company has dealt with this sort of thing on more than a few occasions .So be prepared for bad news (though I hope it is ultimately they that are wrong and not the owner).

Jens

sidemarker

this is what scaries me the most, the notion that they could be 100% correct. However, the only chance i have is that everyone that i have talked to from service reps to service manager to general manager at the dealership and the representative for mastertech have never heard of the magnsum-moss act and when i did get an explanation after i sent a letter requesting the claim to be reviewed they were very vague about the law and didnt really convince me that the m-m act did in fact not apply to the situation.

I want to believe they are aware and might be gambling on the fact that most people dont know about this law so they can just say it and hopefully the people would give up.

I am also assuming that if the dealership helps me out its not because of the general manager but the law itself. mastertech might call me back and give me some BS about how they are doing a one time "goodwill" because of some BS reason, so that they will protect themselves from not exposing the truth that what they are doing is against the m-m act.

so maybe everyone is playing stupid and just saying they never heard of the m-m act so that they could use some other excuse to grant warranty work. If they did admit they were wrong they would be in so much trouble and people would be filing lawsuits espically if i leak this information to other people. So just give the denied customer the run around then make him/her happy and hopefully he/she will forget about calling a lawyer and yada yada yada...

i know i might be thinking way too deep into it but it could be a possiblity...

sidemarker

sidemarker

suppose i get my car fixed and didnt have to pay a dime, i would think the magnsum-moss act did its job!

sidemarker

ueberholen

I am sure these people at Mastertech are well aware of the M and M act and wrote the contract accordingly .From what I have read thus far in this thread they are very specific about what is allowed and what is not .The M and M act is specific to the vehicle manufacturer and it's agents ,Mastertech is not an agent for a manufacturer that I am aware of and as such will likely use that as the loophole in the law .This is the fine print part of this which is worded precisely to lessen their exposure to "loss" which any claim aginst the warranty they write is .

Jens

sidemarker

you could be totaly correct. Just wish they (mastertech) would be clear about it...

sidemarker

sidemarker

this is what i found at a web site...

On July 4, 1975 the Magnuson-Moss Act, enacted by Congress six months earlier, went into effect. It is part of the official United States Code and can be found at 15 U.S.C. 2301 et. seq. Section 2302(c) specifically addresses the issue that most people on this board are concerned with. In pertinent part it states:

"No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name. . . . 15 U.S.C. 2302(c)."

Additionally, Congress supplemented this Act in 1977 when it interpreted the Magnuson-Moss act. This interpretation appears at 16 C.F.R. 700.10 section 102(c) and states, in pertinent part:

"No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, 'This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized "ABC" dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine "ABC" parts,' and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102 (c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused."

SiGGy

They wouldn't deny a drive train problem if you only had a stereo installed. I've been there and done that before.

And a alarm installs with the main electrical in the car, so depending on the problem they could deny it.

evilstorm

i thought the MM Act causes companies not to be able to monopoly a market? This situation is so

sidemarker

i know it sounds absurd but my situation makes it clear that ANY modification to the powertrain will void coverage, hence an amp kit running from the battery which is directly connected to the powertrain will void warranty coverage. for them to allow coverage when a stereo system that requires an amp kit installed, they should surely grant coverage to my vehicle as well.

im not sure how remote start works but i would assume that type of alarm system could possibly void warranty coverage because of it is "out of factory specifications." However i read on another website stating that the M-M act protects alarm/security products...

sidemarker

Bluto

I noticed the same MM information from C-Cook on the first page of this thread: "violation of antitrust laws for a manufacturer (or its authorized representative) to"

MasterTech is not the vehicle manufacture or its representative, therefore it does not apply to them.

sidemarker, I hope everything works out for you and they cover this repair.

sidemarker

but wouldnt mastertech be considered an "authorized representative" for my dealeship?

ok would acura care be considered manufacture or authorized representative??

sidemarker

Bluto

You probably signed paperwork stating MasterTech and Honda/Acura legally have nothing to do with each other. Your dealer is a 3rd party broker for MasterTech, MasterTech is not an authorized representative for Acura.



Acura Care is part of Honda Motors.



http://www.curryacuracare.com/index.cfm

"Acura Care- the only vehicle service contract backed by the strength and stability of American Honda"

Zippee

Nope, Mastertech is a third party from whom you purchased a warranty.

Dunno, depends on how it's structured.

Just to refresh everybody, exactly what mods are on the car?

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

An Acura care warranty is from the manufactor. In this case Acura. They can only be sold through an Acura dealership. Anything else is 3rd party. Even if it was sold through an Acura dealer. Again I question WHY would they even deal with 3rd parties & not just give real Acura warranty options. They are an Acura dealer that sells new Acura's. Did they have the Acura one & quoted you the 3rd party as an option? I have heard of some dealers suckering people into thinking they were buying a real manufactor warrany & not being told it was a 3rd party. There was just a Chrysler dealer in my area on one of those news stations help lines that had this happen. A little bad press & they covered the guy & refunded his $$.

Bluto

A dealer may make more $$$ selling 3rd party warranties.

Maybe not all dealers are authorized to sell Acura Extended Care warranties? Or choose not to participate in the Extended Care sales program?

Shawn S

Exactly !!!
AcuraCare probably costs them 500-600 bucks each and they resell them for 1000-1800 bucks based on the numbers I’ve read on this forum.
The third party plans probably only cost 200-400 dollars and the rest is profit if they sell for the same price.
Or they sell it for 700-800 bucks to people that they know don’t want to spend a lot.
People that would never consider spending 1500+ for a plan.
Months later when problems like this come up it’s too late to argue, especially if the dealership has signed paperwork showing exactly what you bought.

ueberholen

The profit is the whole deal why they offer third party warranties (or insurance if you want to get hair splitty ) .Dealers are in it for the money .....................so is everybody else who works for a living .

Jens

sidemarker

i have aem cai, comptech headers, and comptech axle back mufflers

so maybe i should now go after the dealer for choosing a 3rd party warranty company...

sidemarker

ueberholen

Actually unless the dealer told you specifically this was a "Honda extended service contract" and sold you a 3rd party contract instead without you knowing the blame lies with you for accepting the 3rd party warranty .That's why you read the fine print even it is boring .

Jens

03 CLS

Your getting hosed
I would go to the top of the dealership and the extended warranty company
and bitch your ass off. Comptech is authorized Acura reseller so that leaves the CAI
and if that fucked your engine up the Acura should close the fucking doors.

Frainky

You said they denied because of mods to your powertrain,The power train is basically anything that touches oil/fluid. None of those parts have anything to do with your powertrain. Jesus, it doesnt cost much if anything to consult with a lawyer. You can at least find out the cost of what it may take. Take the mecanhics name and maybe a signed statement to the consultation. Hell maybe you can get the lawyer to send them a letter. That would be more convincing that your taking action. Those mods did not cause the malfunction. At least I dont see how they could. The company is just looking for a reason to keep their dough and Its monday did you talk with the dealer?

paulff3

news?

sidemarker

talked to the GM at the dealership today but the news was kinda flaky. He told me he should have some definte answers tomorrow...

sidemarker

1killercls

Get a Lawyer..it will be cheaper than buying a motor.

sidemarker

that is an excellent point!

sidemarker

MethodRN

Sup Eric.
Sorry to hear about your bad luck man. I feel for you man. I wish there was a way I could help you out. I've read my Acura Care extended warranty (Vehichle Service Contract), all it says about modification is as follows:
Under
Section IV. WHAT IS NOT COVERED
Part D. Repairs needed in whole or in part due to:
-misuse or abuse (e.g., overloading, racing, or snow plowing), or from negligence, modification, alteration, tampering, disconnection, improper towing..........

That is the only time modification is ever mentioned. No mention as to what cannot be modified. However, it does say that they can deny coverage if you don't provide service maintanence records.

As for me dude, Acura denied my request for them to repurchase my vehicle because of third tranny failure and only after 2K miles after recall was done. I am in process of filing lemon law papers.

Good luck Eric. Drop me a line if I can help. I'd visit you in SA but my tranny might not make it.HAHAHAHA

sidemarker

I have that same language in my mastertech contract as well.

I'm still playing the waiting game, i fi don't hear from the dealership tomorrow im a get real mad!

sidemarker

jherb

You might want to look into a prepaid legal company. I know that many places of employment offer this service for around 30 bux a month. They will read over contracts and write a letters to the responcible parties for you. I know the one that my employer offers me will also appear in court for you if you get a traffic violation.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

I didn't read the entire thread, but let me see if I got this right, from reading the first page and the last page (no time to read all pages).

They don't know exactly what went wrong with the car, yet they are denying your claim simply due to the presence of modifications? And they mentioned suspension mods? What does that have to do with anything as far as the engine failure is concerned? That's bullshit.

Your CAI, headers and exhaust have nothing to do with the engine internals. CAI simply delivers more air, the headers and mufflers just move the exhaust gas faster. They have NOTHING to do with the internals of the engine, which is what failed. It is preposterous that they are denying your claim, when they don't even know what exactly what went wrong. God, that pisses me off, just thinking about it. I would've decked the guy in the mouth for saying such bullshit.

Sounds like they denied your claim due to the presence of modifications, seeing as how they mentioned suspension mods (have nothing to do with this case). Tell them that they are violating a Federal Law, and that they are ridiculously incompetent of a warranty company to have never even heard of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.

sidemarker

here it is in a nut shell...

car stalled on the road 2 weeks ago, and had it towed to the dealership. Dealership calls up the extended warranty company (mastertech) to inspect to problem. Adjuster comes out and notes that the car has been "modified" therefore no reason to further investigate and my warranty coverage is automatically denied. Dealership tells me the news i get pissed and talk to the warranty company for 3 days and sent them a letter of appeal stating the m-m warranty act and pretty much tell them how i think its BS what they are doing. warranty company stays firm with their original statement "your car is modified, your contract stipulates any modification to the powertrain will void coverage." So I contact the GM of the dealership and so far he is trying to help me out.

As far as demanding the warranty company to comply with the m-m warranty act they vaguely explain that it does not apply to my situation. However after some investigation from a helpful member i have obtained some info that could help my arugment. BUT i am waiting to see what the dealership can do first.

spoke to the service department and they have done a partial breakdown of the motor. turns out that cylinder #5 valve came loose and well nasty stuff happens after that. However it is still not determined what caused the problem nor do they know if there are any other internal problems I am most likely going to need a new motor but the biggest question will be who is going to pay. I know for sure i aint going to pay so either the GM convinces the warranty company some how or the dealership does some kind of goodwill work on my vehicle.

sidemarker

sidemarker

thats a good idea!

sidemarker

Chopsie

Well at least we know what happend, but still to find out how it happened.
Glad your dealing ok with the dealer Eric.

sidemarker

andy your back!

FREE CHOPPER FREE CHOPPER!!!!
j/k

sidemarker

Zootking

Here is one thing to consider...did "ANY" warranty work get done on the car before the original factory warranty expired? If so, and you had the mods already on the car, then you may have a stronger case. My dealer told me that when my O2 sensor was acting up (due to the NOS) he wouldnt replace it b/c of the NOS, but he was not the least worried about the headers, intake, and springs. Therefore, I took the NOS off and he said it was as if he never knew it was there.

Good luck, it seems like they are trying to hose you...oh yeah, who put your mods on? I know that if the dealer puts on Comptech products, it should not void your warranty.

sidemarker

just a month and half ago i used the extended warranty to fix my a/c compressor. The authorization came via telephone so need for an inspector. total cost was $1700!

sidemarker