JaredGMS

What do you mean?

sidemarker

yes i am pissed at the mastertech but once you let everything soak in you begin to blame the root of the problem. If my dealership used acura care instead of this bs then maybe i would not be in situation...

sidemarker

sidemarker

well i was trying to find a lawyer online but there are so many of them i dont even know where to start...

sidemarker

1SICKLEX

Man good luck dude.
But honestly, this will be tough. THe dealer will not want to take their workers to fix this car. What sucks more, the warrenty company will see that 7k total to fix and fight very hard, especially if you didn't have that much time left on the warrenty. Your mods won't help at all.

It really sucks but wish someone u knew could have helped you at the dealer. The dealer would 1st diagnose the problem, tell the warrenty company the part is fucked, it needs replacing. The warrenty company would send someone out to check it out and approve.

Since the aftermarket parts came up, man they fucked you. Or you should have re-installed the OEM intake.

Most warrenty companies are 3rd party. They usually offer 3 diff levels, silver, gold, platinum.Since Acura is a reliable company usually, for the warrenty company this is a great sale. They figure much won't go wrong, no work for them or check writing to you.

Sorry to hear this dude. You may need some sort of documentation from an outside mechanic or 2 stating a CAI cannot affect what broke.

JaredGMS

Local yellow pages...not online. Better place to start.

Good luck!

allenn

Find a local legal lawyer.

sidemarker

just as i figured

called the extended warranty company up. DENIED!!!

i just finished a meeting with the dealerships general manager. I dont know if its part of his job or if he is really telling the truth but he thinks he should be able to fix the situation...

so who knows, maybe today maybe monday ill know for sure where im at

sidemarker

JaredGMS

GO GET 'EM!!!

JaredGMS

I love the smilies on this site...

babyblue

Sidemarker wish ya all the best to solve this issue... after what the warranty company is doing man I would be pissed... Will check and make sure I got the acura warranty...

man I really wish u get it covered....

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

Hope it works out with the manager of the dealership....

ktgumbo

Goooooooood Luck man! Everything will turn out in your favor.

etxxz

Sidemarker, just a piece of advice:

*I didnt read pages 3-5. but:

TO ALL THOSE WITH MODS: when this kind of serious stuf happens, its wise to take or hide your aftermarkets since now, warranty companies look for this first and FUK YU IN DE AS!! I was recently denied a new inverter for the headlight because the ground wire for the headlights "had been moved at one time" when i installed my cai. ('99TL) = $22x.xx w/ labor!!

my friend's eclipse blew his motor (drag racing) and he called me and some friends up at 2am on a school night to help him turn his car as stock as possible overnight, and we're talking about a car with $2000 in performance mods...we were done by 1pm that day after no sleep and 4ppl working in the side of the street at night with flashlights and all morning with retards in cars looking at us like freaks.

Anyhow, he got most of the damages covered.
i'll post pics later when our friend here finishes this madness. Good luck. keep us updated.

etxxz

Sidemarker, just a piece of advice:

*I didnt read pages 3-5. but:

TO ALL THOSE WITH MODS: when this kind of serious stuf happens, its wise to take or hide your aftermarkets since now, warranty companies look for this first and FUK YU IN DE AS!! I was recently denied a new inverter for the headlight because the ground wire for the headlights "had been moved at one time" when i installed my cai. ('99TL) = $22x.xx w/ labor!!

my friend's eclipse blew his motor (drag racing) and he called me and some friends up at 2am on a school night to help him turn his car as stock as possible overnight, and we're talking about a car with $2000 in performance mods...we were done by 1pm that day after no sleep and 4ppl working in the side of the street at night with flashlights and all morning with retards in cars looking at us like freaks.

Anyhow, he got most of the damages covered.
i'll post pics later when our friend here finishes this madness. Good luck. keep us updated.

etxxz

HEY READ, i got some important imformation:

bkknight369

read the rest of the thread you lazy bastard...this has already been brought up

sidemarker

someone please look at this agruement and let me know if it will stand or fall

modifications and alterations to the powertrain would be the install of a supercharger. Since the supercharger uses a rotary device which is custom fabricated into the engine bay it creates substantial power by forcing more air into the engine. Force induction is a method which is NOT the original way for the current motor to function therefore it would be considered modification/alteration to the powertrain because it has changed the way it performs. However a aftermarket equpiment that is a direct bolt on like a air intake does not in fact change the way the powertrain operates. It uses the same connections as the OEM part and the functions are the same as the OEM part.

i could talk about turbochargers too...

any suggestions...

sidemarker

sidemarker

i could talk about how changing the timing is a modification or changing the the ecu is another way too...

or the introduction of NOS into the motor is a modification because the presence of another element that was not original way of operating...

sidemarker

acuraziner

modifications and alterations to the powertrain would be the installation of a supercharger. Since the supercharger uses a rotary device which is a custom fabrication for the engine bay, it creates a substantial power increase by forcing more air into the engine. Force induction is a method which is NOT the original method of operation for the current motor and therefore it would be considered a modification/alteration to the powertrain by changing the way it performs. However an aftermarket piece of equpiment that is directly bolted on, such as an air intake, does not in fact change the way the powertrain operates. It uses the same connections as the OEM part and the functions are the same as the OEM part.

sidemarker

thanks for embellishing it, just wanted to get the point across. so do yall think this makes sense or should i go a different route...

sidemarker

Zippee

Something can be a modification even if it bolts right in. In the case of an intake it is a modification as it changes the amount of air flow to the engine.

I wouldn't play word games with them. Try to make the point that the modification that you did was not the cause of the failure.

sidemarker

i do understand. but i could rebuttal if i changed out the filter of the OEM box with an aftermarket one, could that change the air flow to the engine? or if the OEM filter was dirty and i cleaned it and now it sucks in more air could that change the air flow to the engine, but does that constitue a modification? With that in mind, the engine sucks air into the motor whether or not it sucks in more air or less air is completely subjective unless it is PROVEN using MY VEHICLE on a dyno. If i installed an intake with no filter, instead, a box that would not allow air to circulate into the engine then yes i have changed (modified) the powertrain, the motor needs to suck in air and i no longer allowed it to do so. No air means the operation is different which would cause damage to the motor but this is not the case.

I have an aftermarket part that bolts on and uses the same outlet and all necessary tubings. it uses the basic materials to provide the engine what it needs to operate originally. There is no evidence only assumptions that it "could" change the airflow of the box. How do we not know if the OEM airbox is in fact a better air flow system? If we look at other vehicles YES there is postive gain in horsepower for the majority of the cars, but the outcome varies from cars to cars. And does airflow really matter? IF they put my car on a dyno and they measure the amount of horsepower gain or loss how would that benefit them? Eventhough most of the people on the board drive a cl-s everyones power output is different. some are almost the same and some are just very different. They would need to test two cl-s for this specific test and i doubt they will go to these measures to do so. Even if they did tell me what could they accomplish from this case???

sidemarker

sidemarker

the reason why i have to play this word game is because they are playing the word game with me

I CAN NOT USE THE WORD MODIFY they keep insisting that i modified the car so i have to keep claiming i did not!

sidemarker

sidemarker

ok lets pretend they say "well it is a known fact that an aftermarket intake will produce more horsepower and thus cause more strain on the engine which could cause your motor to fail."

i wish they would say that so i can say PROVE IT!

then i would be on my way to "check mate"

sidemarker

JaredGMS

I know this is crappy advice, but I say to wait for the Acura guy to get back to you on Monday, and see what happens with that. I think you, by yourself, are in a stalemate with the ins. company, and if the Acura guy cannot help, it's lawyer time.

Good luck.

sidemarker

i understand that, but i dont want to waste any time so if acura is no help i want to make sure im prepared to fight this out some how...

sidemarker

Zippee

The truth is you modified the car by changing the intake. To say it makes less power or the same as stock is bullshit. We both know the reason you bought the aftermarket intake was to make more power.

Only shot you have is to prove that the modification was not the cause of the engine failure.

sidemarker

they have made it clear to me that they only want to use the word "modification." However does an aftermarket replacement equipment qualify as a modification?

My point is this, they are using the word "modification" unfairly. Like my example before if i changed out the air filter to the OEM airbox or maybe even replace the sparkplugs would that be considered a modification? The contract also notes that if it is approved by the manufacture it is considered legit. but i dont see a list anywhere from acura/honda that tells me that a generic muffler or denso spark plug, or K&N filter is approved or not approved. The contract states that I DONT HAVE TO SERVICE my vehicle at the dealership so if i take it to another shop and they put in all those replacements would that be considered legitament to acura/honda standards?

furthermore the warranty company lacks the proper definition of powertrain. It is so broad that even the battery could be considered part of the powertrain.

let me take another angle now. for example if i had aftermarket sound system in my car running an amp kit to the battery, I have to THEIR DEFINITION altered the powertrain so my warranty would be void.

i understand what you mean as far as having them prove that my so called aftermarket parts caused the problem, but the issue is that the warranty company does not want to make any other statement besides:

"you have modified the powertrain therefore your coverage is denied."

so i have to take the angle of NO I DONT HAVE MODIFICATIONS! I have aftermarket replacement equipment parts.

sidemarker

Zippee

Yes. The car is no longer the way the manufacturer built it, it is therefore "modified".

Unless the item is specificly approved by the manufacturer, then changing plugs or air filter is a modification. If it causes a problem they are not required to cover the repair. Say you put in the wrong plugs and burned a piston, should they cover you?

Then you can assume that K&N filters are not approved.

Any shop can purchase genuine Honda/Acura parts. If they put in the wrong part and you lose warranty coverage because of it you might have a claim against the shop.

And if the system caused an overload on the alternator, you are not covered.

It may be that that's all they have to say.

You can play all the word games you want, but the car has been changed from the way it came from the factory. That is "modified".

I hope the dealer can help you out, but if the warranty company wants to deny coverage I think they have you by the balls.

Chopsie

^^ but there is no modifying of anything (except lowering the car via Springs), purely replacement. Even if he was to replace the spark plug, it would be one specified for the car, not just going to the auto parts store blindfolded and going "ok these feel like the ones".
Replacement

sidemarker

zippee

you are obivously missing the point i am trying to make, i am not intiating this so called "word game" the warranty company has made a statement and it is clear that they dont want to elaborate the denial for coverage. I am simply trying to use what they have said against me to better my case. They said i modified the powertrain, but who are they to determine what is considered a modification? Would you suggest that a modifciation and aftermarket replacement equipment are synonmous?

if i spray NOS or added a comptech SC then yes i believe im dead in the water with no way out and of course i would not be in this mess. You play you pay!

also, hypothetically if i didnt have the i/h/e, instead had an aftermarket sound system with an amp kit installed to the battery and i had the same engine problem that i have right now i am 99.9% sure they would void my warranty BECAUSE I HAVE MODIFIED THE POWERTRAIN OF THE VEHCILE!

that is the only thing im trying to point out here, they are not being fair at all. I paid for this policy so that IF i need repairs THIS INSURANCE company would cover the problem. THEY are not doing their job and I am pissed off at them!!!

sidemarker

sidemarker

its any easy resolution

i authorize the work on the car, dealership tears down the motor, inspector comes in to determine the problem, he/she will conclude it was either A) mechanical failure or B) found evidence of outside influence caused from an aftermarket part.

but nope they just want to play this game of, we see your cars been modified so there is no reason for us to further investigate the problem of your car!

the magnusm-moss warranty act should kick in but i think i need a lawyer for that

so in the mean time i will use as much resource as possible (acura) to help me with this situation before i go get me a damn lawyer...

sidemarker

Zippee

My understanding from one of the earlier threads was that he had installed a cold air intake and that is the mod that is being used to deny the claim.

While taking off the factory airbox and installing something else is a "replacement", it is also a "modification".

sidemarker

you see just like what allmotor said

suppose my exhaust manifold was damaged because i hit a rock. I got it replaced with comptech exhaust manifold because they were cheaper then the OEM manifold. So my warranty is still void. that is a bunch of crap!

sidemarker

sidemarker

you see now im starting to understand why some people are denied warranty coverage if they put a sound system in their car. anything linking it to the powertrain and you will be screwed!

so watch out those with aftermarket alarm systems you could lose your warranty now!

sidemarker

Zippee

And they will say "Who are you to determine what is a mod?". This is not the first time something like this has come up and I suspect there is a definition somewhere in case law. I'll bet their lawyers know what it is.

If the aftermarket piece is not identical to the one from the factory, yes installing it modifies the car.

Fair is not at isssue. You entered into a contract that is a two way street, there are conditions that you must meet in order to recieve the benefit. Their claim is that by moding the car you did not meet the terms of the contract, thus they are not obliged to pay for repair.

I hope you get some help from the dealer but I think that you better start looking for a lawyer.

sidemarker

since when did an aftermarket part have to be identical to OEM parts?

there is no language in the contract specifing that the parts have to be idientical or equal to OEM parts

for example a oil filter, would you consider them all identical? i dont. they all have similarties and function the same way but the size are different and the filter inside are different as well.

I believe i have satisfied my part of the contract...

sidemarker

well zippee it is obivious you dont feel my point is strong enough, if i may ask, do you think i have any other way to dispute this case before going to a lawyer?

sidemarker

Zippee

You are right, just because they look the same not all oil filters are created equal.

Getting the wrong one can jump up and bite you in the ass. Just because it screws on doesn't mean it will work properly. For example there is a larger filter that some folks are using. I have read in one of the threads here that the internal construction is different and it doesn't do as good a job of getting the crap out of the oil. I figure that Honda knows what they are doing and use only OEM oil filters.

If you show up at the dealer with chewed up bearings and one of these filters on you may well not be covered.

Zippee

Rather that fight the definition of "modified", fight on the basis that the mod was not the cause of the problem, and that the engine would have failed anyway. If you can show that then there is no basis for the claim to be denied.

A while back you posted that the mechanic who tore the engine down didn't think your mods were the cause of the problem. He is the one you need to get to talk to the insurance company and if you the legal route, have your lawyer get a deposition from him.

Good luck!