Headers Install Question
06-16-2009, 11:50 PM
#1
Headers Install Question
Alright i've been doing research for the past couple hours digging into the threads and I can't seem to get a strait answer.
I am going to be installing my Meagan Headers soon and I am trying to decide what kind of tuning I need to do. My problem is no one seems to tune their cars, or at least talks about it, after they install the headers. Am I missing something or does this not need to be done? I mean i would think that with CAI and new Headers that a tune is the only way to get the true potential out of the mods.
So then my question to you all, is whats the difference between something like the APEXI NEO AFC and Greddy E-Manage? It seems that the Greddy is what i'm looking for because its a piggyback system to the ECU and holds the maps and tunes for whatever is being adjusted. But i see both being used and don't have enough know-how or knowledge about either system.
Any help would be great. Sorry so long, but I wanted to make sure there isn't any confusion about what I'm asking.
I am going to be installing my Meagan Headers soon and I am trying to decide what kind of tuning I need to do. My problem is no one seems to tune their cars, or at least talks about it, after they install the headers. Am I missing something or does this not need to be done? I mean i would think that with CAI and new Headers that a tune is the only way to get the true potential out of the mods.
So then my question to you all, is whats the difference between something like the APEXI NEO AFC and Greddy E-Manage? It seems that the Greddy is what i'm looking for because its a piggyback system to the ECU and holds the maps and tunes for whatever is being adjusted. But i see both being used and don't have enough know-how or knowledge about either system.
Any help would be great. Sorry so long, but I wanted to make sure there isn't any confusion about what I'm asking.
06-17-2009, 04:57 AM
#2
a tune will give u them most power out of the mods u have done, but its not necessary. only the greddy will hold the tune, its been said that the stock ecu overrides the neo (never happened to me, but i only used it when i sprayed). if i were u, id get more bolt ons and then tune it with everything on
06-17-2009, 08:56 AM
#3
Non-boost/nitrous bolt-ons don't require the aftermarket ECU and professional tuning. Be sure to disconnect the battery from the car, bolt your mods up, and let the engine warm up and settle into idle / get the thermostat open and what not before going out and seeing what you've done.
You'll see a nice benefit from a decent header.
Things to make sure you have:
Can of PB-Blaster
Impact wrench
Mechanics gloves
anti-seizing compound for the header bolts and reinserting the O2 sensor.
Good floor jack(s) and a jack stand
Lighting that attaches magnetically or doesnt require hands. That rear bank is a little tricky getting to everything
PATIENCE - it take a bit to get these apart and back together
Dremel with metal grinding bits - some headers and the front cross member don't play so nice together - you'll know pretty quickly.
Good set of metric rachets and wrenches, along with a short cheater bar for leverage in tight spots
You might gain a little bit more per bolt on mod with an aftermarket ECU tuned to your specific engine setup. As long as you let the computer learn the new flow characteristics - it's also going to take advantage. Save the dyno time and the ecu/tuning/cash for numerous modifications, and speficially for forced induction or nitrous setups which require such additions.
You'll see a nice benefit from a decent header.
Things to make sure you have:
Can of PB-Blaster
Impact wrench
Mechanics gloves
anti-seizing compound for the header bolts and reinserting the O2 sensor.
Good floor jack(s) and a jack stand
Lighting that attaches magnetically or doesnt require hands. That rear bank is a little tricky getting to everything
PATIENCE - it take a bit to get these apart and back together
Dremel with metal grinding bits - some headers and the front cross member don't play so nice together - you'll know pretty quickly.
Good set of metric rachets and wrenches, along with a short cheater bar for leverage in tight spots
You might gain a little bit more per bolt on mod with an aftermarket ECU tuned to your specific engine setup. As long as you let the computer learn the new flow characteristics - it's also going to take advantage. Save the dyno time and the ecu/tuning/cash for numerous modifications, and speficially for forced induction or nitrous setups which require such additions.
06-17-2009, 09:47 AM
#4
a tune will give u them most power out of the mods u have done, but its not necessary. only the greddy will hold the tune, its been said that the stock ecu overrides the neo (never happened to me, but i only used it when i sprayed). if i were u, id get more bolt ons and then tune it with everything on
06-17-2009, 03:25 PM
#5
a tune will give u them most power out of the mods u have done, but its not necessary. only the greddy will hold the tune, its been said that the stock ecu overrides the neo (never happened to me, but i only used it when i sprayed). if i were u, id get more bolt ons and then tune it with everything on
Non-boost/nitrous bolt-ons don't require the aftermarket ECU and professional tuning. Be sure to disconnect the battery from the car, bolt your mods up, and let the engine warm up and settle into idle / get the thermostat open and what not before going out and seeing what you've done.
You'll see a nice benefit from a decent header.
Things to make sure you have:
Can of PB-Blaster
Impact wrench
Mechanics gloves
anti-seizing compound for the header bolts and reinserting the O2 sensor.
Good floor jack(s) and a jack stand
Lighting that attaches magnetically or doesnt require hands. That rear bank is a little tricky getting to everything
PATIENCE - it take a bit to get these apart and back together
Dremel with metal grinding bits - some headers and the front cross member don't play so nice together - you'll know pretty quickly.
Good set of metric rachets and wrenches, along with a short cheater bar for leverage in tight spots
You might gain a little bit more per bolt on mod with an aftermarket ECU tuned to your specific engine setup. As long as you let the computer learn the new flow characteristics - it's also going to take advantage. Save the dyno time and the ecu/tuning/cash for numerous modifications, and speficially for forced induction or nitrous setups which require such additions.
You'll see a nice benefit from a decent header.
Things to make sure you have:
Can of PB-Blaster
Impact wrench
Mechanics gloves
anti-seizing compound for the header bolts and reinserting the O2 sensor.
Good floor jack(s) and a jack stand
Lighting that attaches magnetically or doesnt require hands. That rear bank is a little tricky getting to everything
PATIENCE - it take a bit to get these apart and back together
Dremel with metal grinding bits - some headers and the front cross member don't play so nice together - you'll know pretty quickly.
Good set of metric rachets and wrenches, along with a short cheater bar for leverage in tight spots
You might gain a little bit more per bolt on mod with an aftermarket ECU tuned to your specific engine setup. As long as you let the computer learn the new flow characteristics - it's also going to take advantage. Save the dyno time and the ecu/tuning/cash for numerous modifications, and speficially for forced induction or nitrous setups which require such additions.
06-17-2009, 07:31 PM
#6
I wouldn't get a tune until you get a complete aftermarket exhaust from the headers.
Then you might benefit from a tune...just a little though...nothing significant.
But yeah...you need some more mods to make it worth the money.
Long story short...save your money.
Then you might benefit from a tune...just a little though...nothing significant.
But yeah...you need some more mods to make it worth the money.
Long story short...save your money.
06-17-2009, 07:34 PM
#7
Alright, so the tuning isn't worth it with just the headers and cai? I mean how much of a difference would the tune make without anything else? I mean if I can only get another 10hp out of a tune, than i'd def rather save a few hundred for the next bolt on.
Yeah everyone mentioned disconnecting the batter while installing and I figured that was a no-brainer. I just wasn't sure if a tune was necessary after the headers. figured it would help to ge the most out of 'em. But if resetting things and letting the car get used to it is enough than I'll save the cash.
Yeah everyone mentioned disconnecting the batter while installing and I figured that was a no-brainer. I just wasn't sure if a tune was necessary after the headers. figured it would help to ge the most out of 'em. But if resetting things and letting the car get used to it is enough than I'll save the cash.
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06-17-2009, 08:23 PM
#8
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I am gonna get it tunned after i get headers...
so far I have Lightweight pulley / CAI / IM spacer and TB spacer and now Headers are last, then im DONE modding my car (i hope) so i will take it somewhere to get it tuned when Im done modding it.. Anyone where in North NJ i can get this done and about how much it cost to do a tunning?
so far I have Lightweight pulley / CAI / IM spacer and TB spacer and now Headers are last, then im DONE modding my car (i hope) so i will take it somewhere to get it tuned when Im done modding it.. Anyone where in North NJ i can get this done and about how much it cost to do a tunning?
06-17-2009, 10:19 PM
#9
I am gonna get it tunned after i get headers...
so far I have Lightweight pulley / CAI / IM spacer and TB spacer and now Headers are last, then im DONE modding my car (i hope) so i will take it somewhere to get it tuned when Im done modding it.. Anyone where in North NJ i can get this done and about how much it cost to do a tunning?
so far I have Lightweight pulley / CAI / IM spacer and TB spacer and now Headers are last, then im DONE modding my car (i hope) so i will take it somewhere to get it tuned when Im done modding it.. Anyone where in North NJ i can get this done and about how much it cost to do a tunning?
poke around that site so you can get a good idea what a quality tuning shop is all about. Tuning is expensive, so save up and get it done by a professional.
06-18-2009, 03:15 PM
#11
Alright, this def helped. So Then my big question is why do so many people do headers without any other major bolt ons? Does it sound different? Or is even the minimal power gain still worth the money? I guess I should look into exhaust for a decent power gain after the tune?
06-18-2009, 03:47 PM
#14
The stock mufflers aren't bad.
You could go to an exhaust shop and have them run a custom 2.5" cat-back exhaust.
Would be cheaper than aftermarket and should still sound conservative.
The OEM mufflers are very quiet...you'd probably have a deeper tone but no "rasp"
Next, pick up one of these new upgraded Cats.
You would then have a pretty good free-flowing exhaust and get more out of your tune.
They're expensive (tuning) so you just want to do it once if you can.
You could go to an exhaust shop and have them run a custom 2.5" cat-back exhaust.
Would be cheaper than aftermarket and should still sound conservative.
The OEM mufflers are very quiet...you'd probably have a deeper tone but no "rasp"
Next, pick up one of these new upgraded Cats.
You would then have a pretty good free-flowing exhaust and get more out of your tune.
They're expensive (tuning) so you just want to do it once if you can.
Last edited by nf3d0149ab; 06-18-2009 at 03:49 PM.
06-18-2009, 03:54 PM
#15
The stock mufflers aren't bad.
You could go to an exhaust shop and have them run a custom 2.5" cat-back exhaust.
Would be cheaper than aftermarket and should still sound conservative.
The OEM mufflers are very quiet...you'd probably have a deeper tone but no "rasp"
Next, pick up one of these new upgraded Cats.
You would then have a pretty good free-flowing exhaust and get more out of your tune.
They're expensive (tuning) so you just want to do it once if you can.
You could go to an exhaust shop and have them run a custom 2.5" cat-back exhaust.
Would be cheaper than aftermarket and should still sound conservative.
The OEM mufflers are very quiet...you'd probably have a deeper tone but no "rasp"
Next, pick up one of these new upgraded Cats.
You would then have a pretty good free-flowing exhaust and get more out of your tune.
They're expensive (tuning) so you just want to do it once if you can.
06-18-2009, 03:56 PM
#16
Yeah they recently came up on here in the 2nd Gen CL...
Like yesterday or the day before...
EDIT: Here you go.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/xlr8-high-flow-cat-731673/
Like yesterday or the day before...
EDIT: Here you go.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-2001-2003-50/xlr8-high-flow-cat-731673/
Last edited by nf3d0149ab; 06-18-2009 at 03:59 PM.
06-18-2009, 06:38 PM
#23
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Alright, this def helped. So Then my big question is why do so many people do headers without any other major bolt ons? Does it sound different? Or is even the minimal power gain still worth the money? I guess I should look into exhaust for a decent power gain after the tune?
There are many Dyno's out there where people got 25HP from JUST headers to the wheels.
06-19-2009, 01:02 AM
#27
Moderator Alumnus
I went to a hole in the wall shop. They linked up the hi flow cat, mandrel bent tubing, hi-flow resonator, and put the quad mag mufflers on. I spent less than 150 dollars for them to do the work. All of the aftermarket exhaust parts are the most costly things.
I hooked up the headers before I had all that work done.
But damn, the exhaust setup on my old CL sounded mean!
If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it the same way too.
I hooked up the headers before I had all that work done.
But damn, the exhaust setup on my old CL sounded mean!
If I had to do it all over again, I'd do it the same way too.
06-19-2009, 03:43 AM
#30
Having owned both a CL-P and a CL-S - the CL-P absolutely had substantial gains with the headers and nothing else. I did not notice this as much on the CL-S. Remember, these aren't D motored civics; a 5% - 10% gain on 230+hp cars is pretty substantial power improvement.
Everyone gets caught up with peak numbers too...sure maybe it gave you a peak gain of 20hp, but what did it do to your powerband from 2000rpm to 6000rpm over stock, you know, that part of driving where you're accelerating.
Everyone gets caught up with peak numbers too...sure maybe it gave you a peak gain of 20hp, but what did it do to your powerband from 2000rpm to 6000rpm over stock, you know, that part of driving where you're accelerating.
06-19-2009, 07:59 AM
#31
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Do a search Headers+Dyno
Searching 2 min i found i guy before after obx headers.
B4 191Hp-175TQ
After 226HP-191TQ
Thats OVER 30HP and there ARE many more in the 9 years this car was out that Type-s's neted over 20HP even more to the wheels from just headers!
B4 191Hp-175TQ
After 226HP-191TQ
Thats OVER 30HP and there ARE many more in the 9 years this car was out that Type-s's neted over 20HP even more to the wheels from just headers!
06-19-2009, 08:00 AM
#32
06-19-2009, 10:25 AM
#34
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Well I got OBX of my boy who had them on his 2001 v6 accord.
I think he paid $300 for them on the OBX site they retail for like $500 but u can get them on ebay for $300 shipped. There not as good as comptech but there 1/3 the price u cant go wrong. I think it comptech are the best followed by DC (the new 3 bolt flange design) the OBX and Megan are prob one step better then the $100 E-bay headers!
Just make sure the megans are the new design with the 1 flex pipe cuz all the headers w/2 flex pipes make alot of resonance noise.
All the cheap E-bay ones have 2 flex pipes!
I think he paid $300 for them on the OBX site they retail for like $500 but u can get them on ebay for $300 shipped. There not as good as comptech but there 1/3 the price u cant go wrong. I think it comptech are the best followed by DC (the new 3 bolt flange design) the OBX and Megan are prob one step better then the $100 E-bay headers!
Just make sure the megans are the new design with the 1 flex pipe cuz all the headers w/2 flex pipes make alot of resonance noise.
All the cheap E-bay ones have 2 flex pipes!
06-19-2009, 05:13 PM
#36
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I was also leaning toward megans but the cheapest I found them was $270 shipped.. I was gonna order those or DC untill my boy gave me a deal on his 2001 accord V6 OBX headers!
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