Proguy747

Oh yeah did you get an alignment? After doing tons of suspension work my car was very unstable and noisy. Once aligned it was quiet and handled great.

619rcr

I just got a xforce 3" from summit to replace a magnaflow 3" cat. they are also available in 2.5"
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/xfo-s0002

IIRC the stock cat was 60mm. Before the big headers i had a 2.5" magnaflow that i welded stock type flanges on. Didn't seem to make a difference.

Thefireball

I'll leave the cat recommendation to 619rcr. He's more knowledgeable on that subject.

Alignment was done a couple weeks ago, as mentioned in an earlier post. I have a bit of vibration in the steering wheel, but only at higher speeds. Like around 90-100mph and above.

I've been looking around today, and have learned some new things, but I'm still scratching my head. Lifting the car up, putting it in first gear, and moving the wheels; no sounds. At least the LSD is working properly; moving the other wheel in the opposite direction. I tried moving the radius arm, but it's solid. Both nuts are fully down as well. I tried wiggling the axles, but they're solid as well.
When looking around, I noticed I didn't screw the lower control arm bolt all the way in, where it meets the subframe.


Tightened that down. I also discovered that the brand new tie rod ball joint boots are already going bad.


Looking at these images now, I'm noticing that the actual arm looks out of shape, with rust at the edges. But how, why? Maybe it's rubbing?

I took it out for a test drive, and there was no sound at first. Then it showed up. However, the rubbing noise is now gone, and it's simply the creaking noise. I pulled into my drive way, parked it, and immediately jacked my car back up, and tried turning the wheels with the car on again. No sound. What the fuck is going on? I looked underneath before jacking the car up, and I don't see any parts touching that shouldn't be.

With the car back up in the air, I'm looking around, and I did notice that the dust cover for for the driver side rotor was touching the rotor. So I bent that back. I then started thinking that maybe the lower control arm bolts are over tightened? Checked them with my torque wrench, and it was right at spec. I still have yet to try the upper control arms.

I'm confused as to what the hell it could be. But hey, check this out. We have a Cricut now, and I can make custom vinyl decals. So that's cool lol.


Edit: I just tested it again after moving the dust shield. Moving in my driveway, it's still creaking. It think the axles bearing the weight and dealing with the actual load of the car is causing the axles to creak. I have no clue.

Thefireball

Alright, I figured it out. The cause, read underneath my name. I didn't tighten my lugnuts all the way down they weren't finger tight, but the tightened up waaaay more. I'm such an idiot .

Now I just gotta figure out this oil leak problem and I'm all good.

Proguy747

broly

i just want to thank these two publicly because they've shown me a lot of love and i continually bug them in private.

they're doing things this forum should have been doing 15 years ago.

thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge, 619rcr and thefireball.

Thefireball

So a bit of an update. Some related to the manual swap, some related to my car, and others completely unrelated.

Let's start with the black CL. No pictures to share. I have been absolutely unmotivated to work on it, and have moving at a snails pace with it. I'm kind of burnt out from working on cars. I just got the steering wheel back on, so that means that I have the wiring all where it needs to be, fuse boxes in place, dash, gauge cluster, and buttons all in place. I just need to get the glove box in, ECU in & plugged up, and find the one screw for the steering wheel airbag (where did it go?).
However, this is related to the swap. When plugging in everything, I found there is one plug missing a socket to go in. The wiper arm clock spring combo is different between the manual and automatic.

It is specifically this plug. There is no socket for it on the manual wiper arm module. Looking up images for a wiper arm/clock spring combo, I find that there is a socket at the tipple middle portion next to where a screw goes in to hold the module down. Funny enough, the image had the same green plug with the same colored wires plugged into it. I'm too lazy to swap them out from my car. I'm just going to leave it unplugged for now, and next time I go the junkyard, I'll pull an automatic one off. Does anyone know what this plug is for? Because I don't.
On top of all this, in payment of helping my friend replace his axles on his del sol (one side had the boot completely torn, and he just bought two new ones), he has bought me a CL-S6 hand brake. We're waiting to find some cup holders for sale. As of yet, no one is selling any. If you have one, please message me. Hand brake has been installed in the black CL.

I still have to go back this weekend to finish the job. Ended up having to replace his lower ball joints, which are pressed in like ours. That took quite some time. We didn't discuss doing that, so he stills owes me for that.

Next up, my outer tierods have failed. About a month in after the swap, when I was investigating the oil leak (more on that next), I noticed my tie rod boots were beginning to cracker all the way around. I've also noticed a noticeable knock when turning all the way left/right when I first pull out of my drive way, as well as when I go over a bump sometimes. There has also been a bit of a steering wheel shake at about 70mph, getting worse the faster I go. I have been meaning to fix this for the past months, always scared driving on the highway knowing they could just go at any moment and I end up slamming into a car or wall. I finally replaced them today. They have a 5 year warranty. I just need to send these bad ones back, and I will get my refund from having to buy new ones.







Before buying the front end kit, I did some research on them. People here have said that Mevotech was essentially a hit or miss. Some people have had them installed for long time with no issues. Others had them fail within a month. All the other suspension parts are still perfectly good and still look new. It was only these that failed. I still have yet to drive her on the highway, but she feels much better to drive now. I made sure not to move the inner tie rod or the nut when removing this outer one, and counted the turns. I'll still take her to get an alignment on the future, but I think she's straight. But I need to get it checked just to be on the safe side.

I think I have found the source of my oil leak. I believe it is coming from the oil pump, at the seam where the pump mates with the block. I suspect it's here because it's always on the passenger side that oil is everywhere, and that component uses liquid gasket maker, which has probably failed. I have been under my car with it running, and did not see a single drop of oil. I also think that this could be the reason my car has a low idle on a start up, due to low oil pressure. The oil light sometimes lights up once during this, not always, due to a drop in RPMs. After filling up the engine due to low oil, the idling was a bit better, but it's still not great. However, the issue could also be from my messing with the throttle stop screw on my Skunk2 TB.

I have received some goodies from 619rcr. A set of cam gear spacers and a used (new to me) master cylinder (up next). Now I can install the J35A8 RL cams. Since I'll be dealing with the timing belt, I'll also be fixing the oil pump gasket at the same time. I was concerned about the amount of space I would have to do this, but some one recently made a thread talking about how they replaced their oil pump with the motor on the car. So now I'm not too concerned. Might be worth buying a new pump while I'm at it as well.

The master cylinder has a leak on the interior side. I (allegedly) got in a race with an Mustang (fifth gen) that was probably stock. I've already beaten a 6G GT, so I knew they were no problem. Beat them the first time, then the second time, they flew past me, and I just dropped it into gear and caught up to them no problem, and (allegedly) took it to 130MPH for the first time, completely losing them. However, during this time, I wasn't able to get it into gear. It was either 4th or 5th. Getting off the highway and to a light, I struggled to get it into 1st. Getting home, even with the car off, it was struggling to go into any gear, some of them being impossible.
I found the the clutch pedal simply wasn't working as it should. Putting it in gear when I could, with the clutch pushed all the way in, the car would very slowly move. Eventually, I noticed that there was a small amount of fluid where the rod goes into the master cylinder. On top of that, my clutch pedal feels extremely spongy, and completely different from my girl's car. It's been driving fine lately with no shift issues, but it has been rough trying to drive smoothly as I'm having trouble finding that 'catch'.

Now onto unrelated topics. Some J series gore. Who doesn't love seeing some damaged goods from our favorite cars? My girl was on her way home, driving on the highway. There was something in the road that was unavoidable due to traffic, but she figured it was just aome plastic. Turns out, it was a big piece of metal. She ran right over it, causing her car to jump a bit in the air. Oil light came on, and she immediately got somewhere she could park to check the damage, and eventually call a tow truck. Here's the damage:




A ruined mid flex pipe, and a broken oil pan. Thankfully, she said she didn't lose any power on her less than 5 minutes to a parking spot. Motor it probably still good. But I haven't been able to get started on it since it's happened, and it's been out in the open with it having rained a couple times here. I'm worried about rust. Hopefully any oil that was still in there has protected the parts.
P2R doesn't have enough header kits in stock to send me out a replacement pipe. I'm thinking of using either a pipe expander to push out the crushed portion, or cutting that part of the pipe and welding a new one in place. I do already have a spare oil pan sitting on my shelf, so we're good there. I have yet to investigate any further damage, but I'm worried about possible suspension being damaged.

That's pretty much it. I have been working on something, and have recently received some feedback from some members here on my project. But it involves a lot of photoshopping and my girl's Cricut. Hopefully I can reveal what I've been up to soon, and anyone who is reading this and loves these cars as much as I do will be interested in what I have made. I just need to get my ducks in a row and things figured out before I do anything.

CLtotheTL32

iTrader: (3)

Damn, sorry to see the damage

Proguy747

Shit sucks. 5 minutes of driving with the oil light on? Motor bearings are toast if this is the case.

Thefireball

There is hope. She said when she parked, that there was still oil pouring out. She said there was no loss of power, nor did she hear any weird noises of knocking. I'll be checking the crank journal, rod bearings, and rod end caps once I have the pan off. For now, I've only gotten the front header off and the mid flex pipe. Unfortunately, she managed to crack the middle portion that connects to the flange. Easy weld job. What sucks even more is that I just now bought a smaller pipe expander to try and push out that crushed pipe, only for it to instantly break.

If the motor is toast, then I guess I'll be making another J35 swap thread for her car.

To keep things on topic with thread, I was at the junkyard working on a J37A1 MDX. I'll be coming back at a later date to pull the motor so I can take the crank. Maybe the rods and pistons too. I was going to take the cams, but after pulling off the front head, my girl discovered that one of the lobes was completely screwed.

Well, at least pulling off one of the heads will hopefully deter some one from pulling the motor and taking it. I checked a single crank journal, removing the rod end cap and inspecting the bearing. It's deemed good enough, but I'll have it turned anyways. Didn't leave empty handed. Took the intake manifold & throttle body with me.

How is this on topic? Well when we were leaving, my car wouldn't start. It just wouldn't crank. I checked the starter fuses, all good. Battery wasn't dead because the radio still came on. I tried tapping the starter, nothing. It was like it wasn't getting any power. At this point I was messaging 619rcr for ideas. I tried his suggestion of hotwiring the starter using some wire I had in my car for emergencies like this, with the key art to electronics. Boom, starter cranked immediately and the car started. So my starter isn't bad, which I have a spare manual starter. It's either a relay or the clutch pedal switch isn't working. So great, more stuff to fix.

At least the 3G TL daily got an oil change and K&N filter cleaned, so it's not all bad news.

I should probably make an update 'blog' thread instead of constantly bumping this one...

Proguy747

I had a rod bearing ticking on my accord. Dropped the pan ordered bearings and 20k miles still going strong. Man was super easy to do. Sounds like you are going to be fine. Going to make a 3.6?

Thefireball

Debating a 3.6 or 3.7 for boost. But that's a ways off. Just trying to get the parts for future projects. Next project will be started after the black CL is sold off.

Thefireball

Bit if an update, and it's related to the manual swap and suspension parts.

Last week, I decided to fix my spongey clutch pedal, and swap in the master cylinder that 619rcr sent me. I got mine out after fighting with it for a bit, and noticed that the portion where the line nuts screws in wasn't on the one he sent me. No matter, I'll just swap mine over. So I pulled the pin out holding mine on, and when I went to go swap it over, it was too big. Well shit. He said he had it, then he discovered that the clutch line is actually bigger on the newer gen Accord's than on the CL's. Ah well, I'll keep it for something.




So I took my master cylinder apart, and it was dirty. A bunch of hard gooey brake fluid stuck to the sides of the cylinder & plunger. I cleaned it all out, put it back together, and threw it in the car.

This all started because I was trying to fix the no start issue with my car, where I would have to jump the starter with a wire. Well, I had to take the clutch pedal out, and discovered that the rubber pieces for both switches on the clutch pedal broke off. Much like that happens with the brake pedals. So I threw a nut & bolt on each switch, and now she starts up great. But not only that, the clutch feels amazing. Nice & solid. I do need to adjust the rod a bit though, as the clutch seems to catch once completely off of it.

Next up, I finally got use some PTO at my job for the first time ever. Last job wouldn't let me, and lied to me about having it, the fuckers. So I've spent a large portion of this week to work on me & my girl's car, all under a nice canopy I bought, since my garage is blocked in by two cars. Just two CL's up on jack stands, hood to hood. Must be how 3G TLs are made. Y'know, two door + two door = four door? You know what, nevermind.

First up, I swapped the bearings in my girl's motor. Crank journals all looked good. Some bearings had some wear, but no scratches that caught my nail, same for the rod caps. Got the oil pan on, and I stopped there. Now it was time to focus on swapping the RL cams in.

Once the RL cams were in, I went to go and put the gear & P2R spacers on, only to find that the cam gear was hitting against the bottom sensor. Not only that, but it was hitting against the bottom bolt when turning it the other way. 619rcr said he had the same issue with the cam gear hitting the sensor, and he spaced it out. I decided to just chance it and see. The gear could still spin freely after all. I put it all together, started the car, and it sounded normal, until I started revving it. It would then tap. So I took the whole timing belt assembly off, again.

I then took 619rcr's advice on spacing the bottom sensor, but not before I figured out why. Then I remembered why. The the front head is a little different on the automatics than on the manuals. Specifically where that bottom cam sensor sits, is a little slit that pokes out for whatever reason, where as the manual doesn't have this. I had cut mine as best as I could during the swap, but I guess I didn't do a good enough job, because it was causing the sensor to be pushed up on, which caused the whole plate to be pushed forward. On top of this, that bottom cam plate bolts had started backing out, and was sticking out by quite a lot. I then discovered that the exhaust leak that I thought I had, was actually from this cam plate bolt sticking out. So I put a small washer on the cam sensor bolt area, and slapped it all together.


Before starting the car this time, I wanted to try seeing if I couldn't fix my low idle issue. So I took the P2R IACV bracket's barbs, grabbed my Ryobi Rotary tool (Man I love this thing), and started going at the barbs, widening the holes even more. Shaved a lot of metal off the inside. I then realized that the area I had the hose connected to for the IACV was a little bit too narrow compared to the wide barb holes. So I connected it to the little ' L ' inlet on the top of the J37 IM after the throttle body. I drilled a hole into the P2R B series TB adapter when I first got it to fit a hose inlet, and this is where the IACV hose was connected. I swapped out for the purge solenoid (I think that's what it is?). Starting up the car now, the idling seems to be a LOT better. Though, I really need to test it when it's cold outside. Hard to do during these hot summers in TN.

Next up, I wanted to try fixing the suspension on my car. I've had a bit of a steering wheel shake as of lately. Happens when I hit 70mph, tends to get worse when going faster. Gets bad going down hill, completely goes away going up hill. Now, one of my wheels now has a large dent in it from backing out of a Harbor Freight and turning too early. I figured it might be this, but asked my friends about to catch their opinions. They think it's probably that too. However, when ever I first back out of my drive way, I seem to get a single 'knock' sound from the suspension. It happens when hitting bumps as well. It's like something is under tension, then pops loose. It's really hard to tell what it is, as nothing feels unusual. I'm thinking maybe it's the polyurethane radius rod bushings.

However, I was playing some VALHEIM with my friend, telling him about it, and he mentioned something. When messing with the control arms, you need to put weight on them, then tighten them down. Well I'm dumb, didn't know this, nor did I do this. I looked it up in the service manual, and sure enough, it says to do this. Since I was rotating the wheels anyways, that's what I need. Loosened both control arms, from the sub frame to the strut fork, to both bolts on the upper arm. Took my new harbor freight jack that I just bought because my Walmart one finally gave out, jacked up the lower control arm until it started to raise the car, as per the manual. Then I torqued everything to spec. Well, only the strut fork bolt/nut because I can't fit a ratchet in the other two, only a wrench. So the rest are just tight.

Now, the knocking is still there, but at least the front end of my car doesn't look lifted. I have to test her on the highway to see about the steering wheel shake, or the RL cams. Tires have been filled up to 32psi, as all of them were low. Rotated; fronts moved to the back diagonally, backs moved to the front on the same sides they were on.



Needless to say, I need new wheels. That'll be part of my next project, which is going to be focusing on looks. Thankfully, my junkyard keeps bringing in RLs for me to pull cams and calipers from. They just brought in another one aswell. They also just brought in a bunch of 3G TLs, so I need to check those as well. Was hoping to wait to start on this next project once I sold the black CL, but with how slow I'm moving on it, I've already managed to get the funding for it. So hopefully it'll be soon™.

Also, peep the Acurazine decal I made. Happily advertising our little site in the hopes of gaining some users.

**Edit: I forgot to mention, that I was going to pull off the oil pump and reseal it in the hopes of fixing my oil leak issue. I didn't, because I was lazy. I didn't want to pull the oil pan off again, especially since I had just did it on my girl's car. However, it doesn't leak at idle, meaning it must leak when there is oil pressure build up. So I'm starting to think it's from where I used liquid gasket to seal the VTEC solenoid, as I wasn't able to find a small enough gasket to fit on it.


I'll be stealing the manual J32A2's oil filter housing and swapping it onto my car some time later in the hopes of it fixing my issue. It probably won't though, and the oil pump is probably still the the culprit. Didn't do it now, because I don't have a new filter to swap on. It's only 3 bolts, so it'll be EZ.

Also, please excuse my spelling errors, missing & doubled words. I type a lot, on my phone, and I'm too lazy to go back and fix them right now. I usually post, proof read, then go back and edit everything I find. I'm not doing that this time. Just fix it in your head.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear you have resolved those annoying issues.
Automatic front head:

CL-S6 front head:

This youtuber covers it nicely in his video starting at about 5:20:

@broly This is a good video to review to understand why / what is needed to make your automatic 02 TL-S J32A2 manual transmission & ECU compatible.

Thefireball

Where the arrow is wasn't what I was referring to. Though, I do see a dimple there, I'm not sure that's where the sensor sits.


^ J32A2 Manual ^



^ J35A3 automatic ^

It might be hard to tell from the side view, but it's raised on the automatic, and it's flat on the manual's.

It's been said that both the J32A2 & J35A3 use the same casting for the heads. But why would they make it different for the manuals? We have to swap the sensors, and so obviously they had to make room for them. But why couldn't they just reuse the automatic's sensors? What is so different about them that they require being changed? I mean, they're essentially just magnets picking up a single from the lobes on the cam gears, right? Has anyone ever tried using the automatic sensors with the manual ECU, but paired with the manual's cam gear?

Anyways, I'm pretty sure I posted pics in these thread of my shaven down head to make room for the sensors. I was going to take my new Ryobi angle grinder to it for a second time, but I didn't want metal shavings everywhere under the hood.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

^
He shows, a little further along in the video, where he shaves that area as well.

broly

wtf it let me delete my post but not edit it, after 15 minutes (i got into the edit before the 15 minute timer, weird).

i was going to say: i got the analysis mixed up. i thought it was the automatic with the black coating on the sensors but it's the manual. i went and checked mine and got scared i had the wrong one :P.

i have no idea as to why the plates are different, and you raise a great question about whether the automatic plate/sensors can be used with the manual cam and ECU.

but i think people doing this swap don't want to "test" this great question, only to have to do the work over again if there are some ideosyncrasies. :P

Thefireball

I just got done installing the RL cams, and had to take the timing belt off, including the covers, twice. It certainly sucks having to do all that, and I wouldn't want to for testing purposes.

The signals are different between the manual & autos via the cam gear lobes. So you'd have to use the 6 speed cam gear, but the sensors I am curious about. What is it that's different about them? Why would they need to be more accurate? Not like the Automatic's sensor have an issue with failing or causing problems. Besides, all the automatic sensors I've dealt with have held up quite well over the years, while this 6 speed's just crumbled.

Why change the design for a single year? I still think this comes down to my earlier theory, which is that the 6 speed CLS was 'beta' tester before the release of the 3G TL. Send the CL off with a 6 speed manual, and update the hardware & software for a better over all car, while also testing things out before releasing a whole new line up. Say the 6 speed manual car had as bad of issues as the automatic transmissions did? They'd have a full year to catch & fix those issues.

Who knows.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Thefireball, do you remember if the Moog bushing set you purchased from RA came with instructions specifically indicating that, for this particular kit, the outer & inner washers (red, above) were to be installed with the 'flared' side facing the bushing?

I ask only because you mentioned that you heard a 'subtle' knock when exiting your driveway and this may be the cause.

The Helms provides a nice cross section diagram below, that shows how everything should look after RR bush installation.
Each end washer has the 'flare' pointing outward, from the bush, rather then inward toward the bush as they sit in the cradle.
As you know from past experience, sometimes these 'little' things make a difference.

Thefireball

I mentioned that in the PM, that they are installed backwards. I need to find a time to fix it, I just don't want to have to deal with those two big stubborn bolts again.

I took my car down to have the wheels balanced, and they discovered one of my wheels is bent. So that makes two bent wheels if you count the other one that got smashed in on the rim. They put two good unbent wheels on the front. However, I still get a steering wheel shake at 70-80mph. So my shaking isn't from bent wheels. I will be getting new wheels eventually, but I've gotta figure out this steering wheel shake.

I've already taken my car up on jackstands, tried moving the wheels up, down, left, right, but they're all solid. I even tried moving it back and forth to test the radius rods; solid. I took my car up to 70mph on the stands, and the shaking was there. So it doesn't need load on the suspension. I took the wheels off, and the shaking went away. All signs point to the wheels, but then why is it still shaking at that speed?

I'm losing my mind over this; I can't figure it out. All of the suspension parts are new besides the struts. Maybe I just have a bad ball joint some where? But I would have felt it trying to move the wheels. Does anyone have anything I can test or look at? I can't have fun driving my car when. I'm constantly thinking a wheel might fall off. Driving on the highway is scary. I'm at the point of taking it to a professional just to get this figured out, but I'd really prefer not having to.

Edit: I forgot to mention. When testing the car on jackstands, I had two phones recording the axles in each side. They weren't shaking or wobbling. I tried rotating the wheels by hand, and the axles aren't lagging behind either. I even went under underneath car while having the transmission in 6th gear idling, and the axles still looked fine.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I remember you stating that; however, I was just trying to figure out why you would install them backwards if the Helms shows the opposite.

Thus, I thought, perhaps, that's what the Moog instructions stated, if there were any.

The YT video of the guy below (3:00) shows him installing ACDelco RR bushes (on his Accord) and he installs the washers 'backwards' as well; however, he does not state why.

He just states that he is 'pretty sure' that's the way the new ones go, even though the displayed OEM's came out reversed.


I just thought maybe these new aftermarket kits (Moog / ACDelco) supplied 'instructions' that indicate a different install method other than the what the Helms dictates.

When I installed the ES one's I purchased, IIRC'ly, they came with no instructions or hardware, so all the OEM hardware was reused except for the nyloc nut per the Helms install method.

Thefireball

Mine didn't come with instructions. I installed them that way because the washer just fit over the grooves at the tops of the bushings. I'm dumb and didn't read the manual. I was more focused on the orientation of the bushings, scurrying to find pics of other's cars to see which way they installed.

As for the steering wheel shake, it seems worse now. Might have to take a look at my inner tierods. If the new outer tie rods were bad, maybe the inners are too?

Thefireball

Alright, so I believe I have found the source of my clunking/knocking/tapping sound when ever I turn or hit a bump.

When I went to go and push my clutch pedal in, I had felt the knocking noise. This told me that the source of the noise was on the driver's side. I figured since the outer tie rod boots had gone bad after just a month, that maybe the inner tie rods were bad too. So I disconnected them from the outer, took the boot off, and gave them a look and feel. First inspection, there was a little bit of power steering fluid inside the boot. Not a lot, but I probably need a new steering rack in the near future. But the inner tie rod was stiff, had plenty of grease, and was not the source of my noise. So I put it all back together. Now I need another alignment, so that's awesome.

Next thing I tried was to jack up the front driver's side control arm, in the hopes that I could replicate the noise; I didn't. But then I noticed something..

The upper control arm's ball joint had lifted up. This has to be the source of not only my noise, but the steering wheel wobble as well. I then compared it to the passenger side, and noticed it had a snap ring in place, where is the driver's side is missing. I figured I would at least try to pop it back in. I couldn't move it by hand, so I tried a C clamp. With the C clamp, it moved like it was nothing. I was barely putting pressure on turning the clamp. There's no way i'm just going to throw a snap ring on this. The kit has a 2 year warranty, so i'll just warranty this out. I still have to send back the two outer tie rods.

But then I remembered. My girl recently bought the same suspension kit, we just haven't installed it because I want to make sure her motor is good before installing it. So I went to my garage to find the other control arm, and I inspected it for a snap ring. Then I discovered something..




These are two brand new upper control arms from Mevotech. One of them has a snap ring, while the other one does not. The one that does is for the passenger side, just like how mine is on my car. The boot design is also different, and the passenger side actually has a letter on it telling you which side it goes on.

Now, I figured that with the outer tie rods, they were 'new old' stock; they had been unused, but sitting on a shelf for who knows how long. Long enough for the rubber boot to go bad. I don't know who is to blame for this, but it seems like Rock Auto is mixing new and old parts together. The old design is clearly inferior due to the lack of snap ring around the ball joint, prevent it from pushing up. They don't even provide one in the box or bag. I'm not sure if the supremes are also like this, but I wish I would have spent the extra money on them, because so far, I haven't had a great experience with this kit.

This post is more of a warning if you plan on buying a suspension kit, or even a suspension part, from RockAuto. I get that it's a business, and you gotta make your money back, but this is just going to go straight back and replaced with hopefully a new part. I'm not even going to put the inferior design on my girl's car. I'll be warrantying that as well. So if you buy a newer upper control arm from Mevotech, check to make sure it has that snap ring, or else you might run into the same issue that I have been having.

Car will be up on jackstands until I get the new part.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I had a hell of a time with upper control arms and trying to find the most cost effective way...I ended up with ktuned arms and am not looking back.
A snap ring holding that in place that should be press fit is nuts. Fuck mevotech IMO.

Thefireball

Well, things haven't been to good lately.

I got the replacement control arm, only to find that it was the older design without a snap ring. So I sent it back, along with the tie rods. What sucks is that RA doesn't let you combine parts from seperate orders. So since I ordered a second suspension kit, they considered it the replacement, and forced me to do the return through that. But I also started the return on one of the outer tie rods to see how the process worked. $7 for each package. Real fun. I still have one two more things to send back.

The new control arms showed up today. I ordered supremes this time. Took some time in the driver side due to the spring being in the way, but I managed. Both are installed, and I took my car to work. But hitting bumps, it was making a nails on chalk board like sound. I figured the ball joints weren't greased, but 619rcr said I may have over torqued the bushings, which is probably true. Either way, I called up Jiffy Lube, asked if they grease ball joints, and headed that way after they said yes.






This is where my day went to shit. I was sitting at a red light waiting to turn right for at least 5 minutes. Traffic was building up behind me, constant traffic with no opening for me to turn right. I finally saw an opening, light still red, and went to go take it. There was a pickup truck hauling a trailer that looked like they were in the right lane. Now, I'm not sure if they merged right as soon as I was turning, or if my view was askew and they were actually in the right lane. As I was turning, they were passing by, I realized they were in the right lane with how close they were, I slammed the brakes, and their trailer snagged my front bumper and completely ripped it off. I immediately pulled into a parking lot next to me, and assessed the damage.

My bumper was under my car. Everything else was completely fine and undamaged. Only the bumper got ripped off. I pulled it out from under earth my car, and threw it in the trunk. I then continued onto jiffy lube, and may have stepped on the gas a bit. Then I started hearing a scraping sound. Then I remembered, I never took the splash shield off. So I pulled over, and took it off. The wheel well was still hanging, but I tried clipping it to where it'd be okay. It wasn't okay, and got ripped off by my wheel driving back home.

So now I need a new bumper. I'll be taking the bumper from the black CL, and sanding it down to repaint it. I'll be stealing the wheel well and splash shield as well. Hopefully the junkyard comes through with an intact front end CL. Kinda of considering going with a ricer body kit at this point for a new bumper, and the rest to match. Because why not? Can't be a ricer if I have the power to match it.




At least it was only the plastics. Could have been a lot worse.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Well that wasn't the update I was looking for.
As a rule, balljoints should come greased.
You also want to take the rotational load out of bushings, meaning put a jack stand or jack under and
load the suspension THEN tighten the bolts.

Sucks to see, man but all things considered this isn't horrible.

Thefireball

Rock Auto states that they come pre greased. I jacked up the suspension before tightening down the parts.

Remembering back, when I was installing the passenger side control arm, it was having trouble going in. When it was in, I wasn't able to push the control arm, like it getting stuck. The noise is probably coming from there. Might need to smoothen down the side of the bushing or something? I dunno.

Getting tired of this suspension shit.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

It's sub par parts, man.

Thefireball

So I'm finding out.

Thefireball

Stormed yesterday, so I wasn't able to do any work on my car. Instead, I worked on a T shirt design for a friend, and played some car mechanic simulator on my PC. I also went ahead and cut the fake vent on the driver side, and turned it into a real vent for my intake. Never the less, I got everything fixed up on my car, and she drives great now.

For the control arm, I figured out the issue. At first, I thought it was because the bushings weren't pushed all the way in. So I used a C clamp and two sockets to push them in a bit more. Even tried hammering the back of a socket. They didn't move much, but they did go in just a slight bit more.

You can see it slightly rasied here. It's like this on both sides. I thought it was this because it had some trouble going in. The metal cylinder that sits in the middle would rub up against the car. Bolted it in, and it was still having issues going up more than half way. When I forced it, it would make that nails on a chalkboard sound everytime. So I took it off, and then noticed this.



​​​​​ There's some scrape marks behind where the control arm sits. Looking at the control arms in that spot, they also looked scraped. So I took some clamps, clamped down the control arm, and took an angle grinder to the back. Shaved it down a little bit, smoothened out the edges. It was still slightly rubbing. So I then took a half inch extensions, and hammered it in between the metal that holds the metal. Hard to explain, but you'll see what I mean in the pic.


See that space between the bushings? That's where I put the extension. After doing all this, it now fits in place, and moves up and down with no scraping, no noises. Car feels great to drive now. I still have yet to take it on the highway at high speeds, but I was focused on just driving it around to check if everything was good. Hit some speed bumps, and it was all good. I'll be taking it on the highway tomorrow to finally swap my friend's B20 into his Del Sol. So it'll be the perfect time to test and see if I still have a shakey steering wheel.

However, I have to say, that after all I've been through with this, I DO NOT RECOMMEND MEVOTECH SUSPENSION PARTS. That is all.

After finishing that up, I spent the rest of the time with fixing my bumper issue. The driver side wheel well was completely ripped off, while the passenger's side broke in half, and was left attached to the bumper. The driver's side was one I had taken off from the black CL. So I took my old one back and swapped it back on. The reason I did that was because it took had broken in half. I don't remember front what. I fixed both wheel wells by drilling a hole on each pieces and zip tying them in multiple spots. I could have taken the black CL's passenger side wheel well, but didn't feel like it. I plan on pulling some good ones off some junk cars to replace them all.

I also headed down to Harbor Freight and picked up a plastic retainer set, which helped fill in all the missing retainers that got ripped off, or were already missing.

Splash guard was also replaced, just because the other one got some road rash. The front bumper plastic trim piece that sits under the grill also got destroyed. I had already fixed it previously with some epoxy. It's probably still fixable, but might as well just go and grab another one from a junkyard. Bumper is on, and waits to be painted in the near future. Probably when I start the next project, which is going to be focusing on looks. It will also be a long thread, as I work up the money to do everything.








All things considered, I don't think the black bumper on blue looks that bad. I kind of dig it. If it weren't for my matte black vinyl wrapped hood, it wouldn't look as good. It'll still be painted, by me. But I want to try my hand at painting body parts (again) on something else. Which should be soon ™.

619rcr

b u m p

Thefireball

As if I don't update you constantly on whatever it I do to my cars. Shaddup

I've done a lot, but also not a lot when you compare it to how much time has passed. Not sure if I can fit it all in one post, so maybe I'll do a couple of updates over the next coming weeks. I've been dealing with a lot outside of the computer, both physically and mentally. My biggest issue has been my executive dysfunction from ADHD making it hard to do just about anything, including working on cars. But enough about my personal issues, let's get into what I've done.

The blue CL that's been 6 speed swapped:

So I don't drive far for work any more. This means I hardly get into races at all. Those late night drives going home on the highway always had the chances of running into another modified vehicle who would want to have a go, but no more. So needless to say, I haven't really been able to put the manual transmission to the test. However, this doesn't mean I haven't given her the beans. Whether it's just a random urge to go drive on the highway at 1AM, or just heading to a store 20 minutes away, I've gone WOT plenty of times, and the difference is night and day.
I did get into a short sprint on an entrance ramp to the highway against a Kia Stinger, and well.. they beat me. However, I should have gone a gear lower, because me it took a second for me to get into VTEC , so they just blew past me. But I knew I didn't stand a chance against them, I just the odds could have been a little better.

My car has an oil leak still, and I have to check my oil levels every now and then to top it off. I believe it's coming from the oil pump. I also still have an issue with idling, and it's worse the colder it is outside. With it getting colder, when I drive it before the motor warms up, whenever I slow down for a turn, the RPMs drop so low the car will actually stall. I've had to crank the motor mid turn a couple of times.

​​​​​​ I am also still dealing with a steering wheel wobble when reaching speeds of 70mph, which then go away at about 90mph. The shaking isn't bad when going up hill, and gets worse going down hill. I threw my main phone, and another spare phone, under my car while it was up on jackstands, and recorded a video at a couple different views. First view watching the rotor/knuckle, then the axles, then where the axles go into the transmission. From these videos, I learned some things, but I'm still left confused.

The car would shake when getting it up to speed, again on jackstands, but the video didn't show much. The engine, transmission, axles, and knuckles were not visible shaking. I could see the wheel was slightly moving left/right on the driver side. So I rotated wheels, but before I did that, I tried getting the car up to speed with no wheels. Well what do you know, no more shaking. But even with rotating wheels, the shake would do the exact same thing with there being no difference in the shaking. I have recently learned that the shaking is an up/down movement, and not left/right.

I took my wheels to a shop, and at least one of them was bent. It's on the back of my car, but there is still shaking. At one point, my friend pointed out that my front passenger wheel was sitting closer to the passenger door. Turns out, the radius rod nut had backed up, and I thought surely this must be the issue. So I fixed that, and the issue still persisted. On top of this, I noticed one of my wheels had a crack. Now, I know I need to get new wheels, and I need to discontinue driving with a cracked wheel. But money is tight, and my 3G TL is being used as we wait for insurance to fix my girl's car. So I've just been taking it easy on my car until I figure out what to do. Regardless, I don't know where the shaking is coming from. For the time being, the crack has been sealed with gasket maker and appears to be working just fine, and not getting any bigger. All signs point to wheels, maybe tires. But maybe some suspension part is loose? I don't know.

I also managed to find a junkyard with two really clean CLs. So me and my girl pulled both seats, which are in really good condition. I also pulled the fenders from another car, which has really good paint. We also took a trunk and a hood. I plan on selling the fenders, and the trunk and hood we plan on putting on her car. I'm getting the driver's seat, and she's getting the passenger seat. I have yet to put them in still.







The black CL that's being converted to an automatic:

I have been picking at it here and there, but again, executive dysfunction. I put all the auto sensors and harnesses on, did the valve lash, connected it to the transmission, threw it in the car. I took my time assembling everything. Struggled with some things due to some ground harnesses being left bolted down. Eventually I got the key programmed, and turned it over. It starts, runs, and drives, but not without issues.

At first, I had noticed it wasn't running properly. And eventually, it started knocking. So I started panicking, thinking "well fuck, the motor is dead". But it wasn't a normal knocking. So I took the valve covers off to check the valve lash, and what do you know, one of the nuts came off the stud for the lash. Thankfully, the nut didn't fall down the oil drain holes, and was sitting next to it's valve spring. But I went and checked all the valve lashes with a feeler gauge, and pretty much ALL of them were out of spec. I don't know how I fucked it up so bad, and I even live streamed me doing all that previously. So I redid all of that, and boom, ran smooth. Then there was the moon roof issue, which just turned out to be incorrect relays in the sockets.

The car runs smooths, and goes into drive.. sort of. This is the next issue I need to figure out. I can put it in drive, but the D5 slot doesn't really latch/catch. It moves loosely up and down, and doesn't recognize being in D5. Sports shift doesn't work, but D1-D4 light up and work just fine, as does park. Something is going on with the shifter, so I'll need to open it up and figure it out.. which means pulling apart the interior.. again.

Also, the black round plastic on the shifter cable sort of broke, where it meets the transmission. Thankfully, the gap portion where you put it in and twist is fine. So it should stay in place. The issue I'm having is I think the line is twisted so it keeps wanting to untwist itself, and falls out. So I'll need to figure that out.

I've already washed the car inside and out. Vacuumed the interior, cleaned and buffed all the windows. Cleaned up the head lights, wiped down the leather. I also fixed the taillight which had a pool of water in it due to a crack in the lense. I just sealed up the crack with super glue. That same tail light also had two broken bulbs (glass), so I replaced those and it's all good there. One of the tires does have a leak, and is pretty bald and not safe to drive on. But that's not my issue, but rather, the next owner's.

I also put brand new outer tie rods and lower ball joints on. Balljoints were actually easier to do this time, and I didn't even use a press or official tool for it. Just a hammer to get it out, and my floor jack to press them in.

As soon as I figure out the shifting issue, the car will be up for sale. Just with no cup holder.. because I can't find anyone selling just a 6 speed cup holder.











​​​​​ Some other things that are unrelated and/or off topic:

I finally got around to building my own subwoofer box using the subwoofer I found at the junkyard. My friend also gave me the amp, and got another one instead. I've never done something this before, it's not perfect, and it's obviously a little too big for the size of the speaker put in. But it works, it rattles my car, and it fits in my trunk. I'm happy.






I now own a set of J37 dual VTEC RL heads. What will I do with them? I don't know yet. Either I'll use them eventually, or I'll sell them. One valve cover is broken in the corner, and at least one of the camshafts has some putting on it, which is seemingly normal on these year motors. Regardless I do plan on cleaning it up and doing some work on them in the future. One thing I will say, is that trying to get those rocker bridges back on is a real pain in the ass.












Since I mentioned it in this thread before, I'm bringing it up. We finally got my friend's B20 in and started. She runs smooth, and he's been taking his time breaking it in. He hasn't taken it past 5k RPMs, even after 100 miles. My anxiety of starting it for the first time, or it breaking within the first few drives, is now gone. I successfully refreshed a motor for my friend, and we are both happy. Still slow though.








You can see he loves transporting things with his roof rack. Delivered the black CL hood that I pulled at the yard because I couldn't fit it in the CL. I even tried pulling out my seats in the parking lot, but it wouldn't fit.

Some other things have happened that I don't really feel like mentioning, like how the guy at the tire shop stripped one of my lug nut studs, the fucker. Didn't even do a star pattern putting the wheel on. But that's about it for updates I suppose. Also, I'm not fixing any spelling errors, or missing words. You can figure out what I'm saying. Too long of a post to go back and fix.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

One could fill that rear console chasm above & run an 'easier to find' automatic cupholder & automatic foot parking brake pedal assembly with the fabrication of a mount, below, for the CL-S6 chassis, he he.

Just think of the copious amounts of joy you are leaving on the table by not embarking on such a creative endeavor?!?!

619rcr

Wasn't expecting all that. But, 2023 wrap up summaries seem to be trending.

6spd swap, yay. B20 del sol boo.

Had forgotten about the j37a2 heads and pitted cam. Which reminds me, still waiting for p2r to release their billet dual vtec cams. And yes, dual vtec rocker bridges are a p.i.t.a to install. So many moving parts and pieces.

Also, cup holders are overrated.

over.... crrrsssh

Thefireball

Y'know, I was considering maybe cutting half of the cup holder to fill in the empty space in the arm rest so that could at least be useable. Maybe even try cutting part of the cup holder to accommodate the E brake. But I said screw it, I don't care.

TL;DR: Yeah, no. I'm good. Fuck all that.
Man pesters me for an update, even though I've told him everything I have been doing. Complains about me making an update. Make up your mind old man.

And yes, I agree. Cup holders are over rated. I don't even drink or eat in my car.

619rcr

Wasn't complaining. Just how old people like me sound.



Your update was actually a welcome change from the typical 20+ yr old car has code(s): ##### or doesn't do ___(fill in the blank)__ threads. This place has become so mundane and one has to get on yt or tt just to stay entetained.

Thefireball

Lol, you're not wrong. I was actually considering making a new thread instead of updating this one. Drip feed a new thread with things over the coming weeks on what I've done just to give this section of the forums some activity.

But I didn't. Maybe I will still. Who knows.

Thefireball

So, this is a small update that only applies to anyone who is, for whatever reason, is converting a CL to an automatic. I've had the car up for sale for about a month or two at this point. I've had a couple of people message me about it, either to harass me about "WhY wOuLd YoU dO tHaT tO sUcH a RaRe CaR?!?!?!", or were actually interested in buying it. However, I have no takers as of yet. So I've decided to start fixing somethings on it here and there while it waits for it's new owner.

One of the biggest issues I've had is the VSA triangle light being on. This obviously makes people cautious about buying this car, and I decided to figure out why I'm having this issue. Turns out, the automatics have a yaw sensor that the 6 speeds don't have. So I finally took the time to swap it over today. I have not tested it yet, as I'm too lazy to pull the battery from my car, and throwing it in the black CL. So here's to hoping it all works.

For anyone who isn't aware of where the yaw sensor is, it is behind the rear passenger seat on the passenger (opposite of the driver's side) side. It's bolted it with 2 nuts, and has a 4 pin plug to it. At first, I was going to just use some new wire, but decided to just pull it out of my blue CL. Was seating bullets under the hot sun, but I did it. I cut the leads to the pins off to make it easier to pull through the loom. Connected the pins into the plug it belongs to, and solder and shrink tubes all the wires. Everything has been tucked in place and hidden.














So the good news, as you can tell from the pictures, is that although the 6 speed CL does not use a yaw sensor, it does still have the bracket and studs in place for it. However, when I went to go grab the yaw sensor off the floor to put it in place, I accidently dropped it on the metal body of the car. Apparently, the sensor is sensitive, so says the service manual. So.. oops. Hopefully I didn't break it. At least getting to it isn't that difficult. Just pull the rear seat cushions up, remove 4 bolts, and move the rear seat out of the way.

So anywho, if you're going to convert a CL to an automatic like I did, you will need to swap this over. Else, you'll have an annoying VSA light. You might be able to get away with putting a resistor in place. Who knows. I don't.

That's all for now. Cya.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Nice, let us know if the yaw sensor installation ultimately corrects the VSA light dilemma.

Thefireball

Update:
So swapping over the yaw sensor did not turn off the VSA light and yellow triangle. So I read the ABS code again by shorting pins #4 (black) and #9 (brown) in the OBD2 port with some wire. Blinked code 2-7; steering wheel angle sensor. Now, I had forgotten about the one plug I left out for the steering wheel. The clock spring/instrument cluster (wipers and lights) are different between the automatic and 6 speeds. So I swapped them over. Erased the ABS codes, and no more VSA light!

However, I now cannot get the yellow triangle to turn off. I've reset the ABS codes, reread the ABS codes and got nothing, reset the ECU, hit the VSA Off button. Nothing. Not sure why. Any clues as I continue to search through old threads?


The middle port at the top is the 5 pin plug for the steering angle sensor that the 6 speed manuals do not use.


I also still cannot put it into sports shift mode. Now, the light behind the gear selection screen might just be not in or bad. But it could also be this VSA issue preventing it from working.
Edit: sports shift is working. I can see the number. Backlight is just not working. Probably a bad bulb.