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Hey everyone, hope everyone's having a good holiday szn.
I needed some insight and knowledge on this rebuild/project soon to be underway. I have an 02 Acura CLS that at very least, needs a top end rebuild since the idler pulley bolt snapped while i was driving on the highway. Factors to include are that I need to get the car on the road asap, and I'm on an extremely tight budget. I'm considering things for the future as well , but if i can upgrade parts and can source them for cheap while i have the engine out and opened up, I'd like to entertain the idea of taking care of them now. I've been researching and trying to create a plan of action since this happened 11/28/24, and would like this to be done by the time the new year rolls in. A friend of a friend offered to help me out by extracting the bolt and rebuilding the top end for $1k (thats basically my budget -- hard line), but that'll be after New Years.
Aside from extracting the broken idler pulley inside the block, I know I need to replace the valves, get a valve adjustment, get new valve springs, regrind the cams (most likely), and resurface the heads. Is there anything else I need and are there any suggestions as far as the best approach?
I was thinking of picking up a used j35a3 engine from an 2001-02 Acura MDX and doing an engine swap, or picking up j35a4 heads from an 03-06 MDX for more power at a decent price. Additionally, I have some typical bolt ons and have been maintaining the car pretty well, almost every month doing something for my CL. Attached is a list of mods and maintenance that I've done since i purchased it. Lastly, I have a j37a4 IM I've been waiting to attach, with the adapter for my j32a2 throttle body. I have a j37a4 TB as well, but i believe they're incompatible with the j32a2 harness. I also have a j37a1 IM + TB, if that would work better for my 02 CLS. Any advice is appreciated. I just ask to focus on instruction, rather than opinions. This was my dream car as a kid so I plan to build this up and keep it running to a million miles and pass it down to my son.
I'd prob just buy the top ends from a salvage yard. may take looking at a few different cars, and beating others to the punch, but will definitely be less costly than all the work I read above.
The pick n pull I used has an app that features push notifications when a vehicle I have saved comes into the yards nearby.
@whitetiger5 I'll keep that in mind. Is there anything I should be looking for if i do hit the junkyard? As far as, signs to not pull them, like cracks, rust, etc.?
Also, I'll add that I dont mind doing the work. Unfortunately, I have some down time right now, but I really just need an approach as far as which direction I want to go. Junkyard pick up is understandably the most logical, but I am working towards building this up and if I can knock out two birds with one engine rebuild, I'm open to it.
Since you are pulling the engine anyway, swap a sub-$500 J35A3, to expedite getting back on the road for low $$, rebuild the better J32A2 heads/cams (at your leisure) & swap them onto the J35A3, when time permits for a J35A3 Type-S.
There are literally pages of available J35A3's, on car-part.com, surely something locally could be found to make it work financially?
Good Luck.
I was thinking of picking up a used j35a3 engine from an 2001-02 Acura MDX and doing an engine swap, or picking up j35a4 heads from an 03-06 MDX for more power at a decent price.
I've done both a new j32a2 bare block, heads w/j35 crank, rods build and j35a3 w/ j32a2 heads j37 crank, rods oe+ rebuild. I also goto the junkyards pretty regularly. I will say j35a3 blocks are pretty common in my area. I have seen a few cl's but rarely cls at the yards. J35a4 is an oddyssey or pilot motor. There's nothing better about the j35a4 vs j35a3 in terms of power. 03-06 mdx j35a5 motors are not compatible with the 2g j32s. Reason being they use a single belt and thus the crank snout is shorter.
That said the stock j32a1/j32a2 /j35a3/j35a4 power is pretty pathetic imo. I would suggest rebuilding a junkyard j35a3, bore over to 89.5mm, new pistons, rings. Resurface heads and swap over j32a2 cams or upgrade to j35a8 / j37a1.
@zeta I appreciate an OG coming here to spill some wisdom. I definitely will look into this -- it's looking like I'm leaning towards a j35a3 swap (eventually gonna swap an av6-BAYA trans too). I'm out and about at the moment, but iirc the heads are the same for the j35a3 and j32a2, might be less than 1mm difference but i wanna say they are the same. As far as cams, I'll probably still get them regrinded bc j32a2 cams are supposed to pretty superior from posts i read up on.
I've done both a new j32a2 bare block, heads w/j35 crank up build and j35a3 w/ j32a2 heads j37 crank, rods oe+ rebuild. I also goto the junkyards pretty regularly. I will say j35a3 blocks are pretty common in my area. I have seen a few cl's but rarely cls at the yards. J35a4 is an oddyssey or pilot motor. There's nothing better about the j35a4 vs j35a3 in terms of power. 03-06 mdx j35a5 motors are not compatible with the 2g j32s. Reason being they use a single belt and thus the crank snout is shorter.
That said the stock j32a1/j32a2 /j35a3/j35a4 power is pretty pathetic imo. I would suggest rebuilding a junkyard j35a3, bore over to 89.5mm, new pistons, rings. Resurface heads and swap over j32a2 cams or upgrade to j35a8 / j37a1.
Thank you sir. I'll be looking into this as well as reading up on your threads once I'm back home shortly. Might have some Qs coming up.. but thank you for the knowledge
Since you are pulling the engine anyway, swap a sub-$500 J35A3, to expedite getting back on the road for low $$, rebuild the better J32A2 heads/cams (at your leisure) & swap them onto the J35A3, when time permits for a J35A3 Type-S.
There are literally pages of available J35A3's, on car-part.com, surely something locally could be found to make it work financially?
Good Luck.
Hey Zeta, I misunderstood this when i first read it. Are u implying that a j35a3 engine swap would get my car back on the road, without having to do any extensive mechanical work on the engine? And then in the meantime, rebuild the j32a2 heads/cams to swap into the top end once they're ready? Main Q would be is the j35a3 swap the most quickest method for me to get back on the road asap? Excuse my lack of knowledge on this as well.. this is new territory for me but I was bound to have to learn it eventually.
I've done both a new j32a2 bare block, heads w/j35 crank, rods build and j35a3 w/ j32a2 heads j37 crank, rods oe+ rebuild. I also goto the junkyards pretty regularly. I will say j35a3 blocks are pretty common in my area. I have seen a few cl's but rarely cls at the yards. J35a4 is an oddyssey or pilot motor. There's nothing better about the j35a4 vs j35a3 in terms of power. 03-06 mdx j35a5 motors are not compatible with the 2g j32s. Reason being they use a single belt and thus the crank snout is shorter.
That said the stock j32a1/j32a2 /j35a3/j35a4 power is pretty pathetic imo. I would suggest rebuilding a junkyard j35a3, bore over to 89.5mm, new pistons, rings. Resurface heads and swap over j32a2 cams or upgrade to j35a8 / j37a1.
@619rcr , it seemed like you had issues keep popping up on the high compression build thread. What is your suggestion for the cheapest and quickest approach to get my CLS back running? Just buying a junkyard j35a3 and doing a normal swap?
I appreciate the work you put in and out of the threads you ref. and I will be doing some of those mods eventually like these: "P8E (j35a3) bare heads. 05 RL cams, rockers, lost motion assemblies and valve springs. Valves: Ferrea 36mm intake | 30mm exhaust." but just FYI, I'm keeping this N/A for awhile because I have adapter spacers on my wheels (5x120 - 5x114). eventually, I'd like to entertain putting a turbocharger in this but I want to make sure i add a BBK and have some wheels that dont need spacers.
Hey Zeta, I misunderstood this when i first read it. Are u implying that a j35a3 engine swap would get my car back on the road, without having to do any extensive mechanical work on the engine? And then in the meantime, rebuild the j32a2 heads/cams to swap into the top end once they're ready? Main Q would be is the j35a3 swap the most quickest method for me to get back on the road asap? Excuse my lack of knowledge on this as well.. this is new territory for me but I was bound to have to learn it eventually.
To expedite getting back on the road, as mentioned in your first post, the J35A3 will bolt right up to your factory CL-S automatic.
You may need to swap the J32A2 throttle body/VSA; EGR; water passage, though.
Just try and find the lowest mile J35A3 in your locale, to keep shipping cost low from the salvage yard.
The J35A3 swap, into 2G CL/TL's, has been documented here many times.
As 619rcr mentions, you can just swap the J32A2 cams into the J35A3 heads rather than the whole head to get their benefit.
the j37a4 IM I'm planning to throw on this build. (Redoing top plate later). Also s/o @Thefireball for his yt videos on getting the butterfly to function by splicing the wire from the imrc (
). Since it looks like I'll be doing a j35a3 engine swap, ill be going this route specifically since the 5a3 is DBW as opposed to DBC.
Also, thank you to @zeta again. Im gonna leave this knowledge from you from 2018, in regards to a j35a3/j32a2 swap, for my future reference:
"If you want to use a J35A3 from the automatic '01-02 MDX in your 01 CLS automatic, it should be 'plug and play' except for the (#8) water passage and (#11) connecting pipe, on the link below, because they are different on the J32A2. In addition, IIRC'ly you should use the J32A2 EGR as well: 01CLS https://www.oemacuraparts.com/v-2001...er-pump-sensor
Technically, you could creatively 'rig' the one's in place on the J35A3 to work on your CLS; however, since you are mechanically inclined, transferring them should not be a big deal for you. Especially, IF YOU OPT to transfer the J32A2 heads in mass OR just the cams. Moreover, keep in mind that if you install the intake manifold spacer (#8 on the link below) that comes with the J35A3, you will have problems closing your hood.
I'll be opening up the engine soon - I'd say this wk - as weather seems to be good in North TX. Any other advice/suggestions is always welcomed. Will keep this thread updated.
To expedite getting back on the road, as mentioned in your first post, the J35A3 will bolt right up to your factory CL-S automatic.
You may need to swap the J32A2 throttle body/VSA; EGR; water passage, though.
Just try and find the lowest mile J35A3 in your locale, to keep shipping cost low from the salvage yard.
The J35A3 swap has been documented here many times.
As 619rcr mentions, you can just swap the J32A2 cams into the J35A3 heads rather than the whole head to get their benefit.
Right on. Yup, I just stumbled upon another one of your replies in another thread. I truly appreciate the help Zeta. There's a few MDX in the DFW so I'll be giving them a call later this week.
01-02 MDX J35A3 for the cheapest, least intensive way to get it driveable again. Timing belt, tensioner and valve adjustment.
gl
got ya. in this case, should i return the ported lower runners and throttle body adapter, both meant for my j32a2? I ordered them less than a month ago and never got to use them. Or can they be used for the j35a3 as well? (Tb adapter was to get the j37a4 IM on the j32a2)
got ya. in this case, should i return the ported lower runners and throttle body adapter, both meant for my j32a2? I ordered them less than a month ago and never got to use them. Or can they be used for the j35a3 as well? (Tb adapter was to get the j37a4 IM on the j32a2)
You can install ported runners on the j35a3 block. They'e essentially the same head castings, with different internals. J37 manifold will fit if you remove the longer bolts and the 2" plenum spacer from the j35a3. I had a 1/2 size spacer on my j35 before. Didn't notice a difference.
Don't forget to replace upper and lower intake gaskets.
You can install ported runners on the j35a3 block. They'e essentially the same head castings, with different internals. J37 manifold will fit if you remove the longer bolts and the 2" plenum spacer from the j35a3. I had a 1/2 size spacer on my j35 before. Didn't notice a difference.
Don't forget to replace upper and lower intake gaskets.
Which tb are you using?
Ok, I need to port match the runners tho correct? I also have dual thermal plenum gaskets from P2R (dont know if it does anything tho). Roger on the upper and lower intake gaskets. Im planning on using the intake manifold gasket to port match the runners btw.
I'm not sure on the tb. I have these 3 TBs (and their IMs) at the moment, j32a2, j37a1, and j37a4.
Ok, I need to port match the runners tho correct? I also have dual thermal plenum gaskets from P2R (dont know if it does anything tho). Roger on the upper and lower intake gaskets. Im planning on using the intake manifold gasket to port match the runners btw.
I'm not sure on the tb. I have these 3 TBs (and their IMs) at the moment, j32a2, j37a1, and j37a4.
P2R runners shouldn't need any modification/port matching. I port matched some stock heads and runners mainly because I was trying to save money for other mods.
I believe the stock tb is a 68mm. You won't be able to run a drive by wire tb on the stock ecu. The p2r adapter is designed for a B series tb. I run a 74mm skunk2 atm. But, there are tbs up to 76mm available from Blox. Just be aware that the p2r tb adapter is only 70mm iirc.
P2R runners shouldn't need any modification/port matching. I port matched some stock heads and runners mainly because I was trying to save money for other mods.
I believe the stock tb is a 68mm. You won't be able to run a drive by wire tb on the stock ecu. The p2r adapter is designed for a B series tb. I run a 74mm skunk2 atm. But, there are tbs up to 76mm available from Blox. Just be aware that the p2r tb adapter is only 70mm iirc.
noted. so sounds like I'll be running the j32a2 tb with the p2r adapter. thefireball has a yt video showing how to bypass some of the issues so I'll take a look at those again to get the wire splicing down.
noted. so sounds like I'll be running the j32a2 tb with the p2r adapter. thefireball has a yt video showing how to bypass some of the issues so I'll take a look at those again to get the wire splicing down.
Yeah @Thefireball 's video on the j37 butterfly valve helped me out too. He's hardly ever on here anymore due to life stuff. But, we do communicate outside the forum occassionally.
Yeah @Thefireball 's video on the j37 butterfly valve helped me out too. He's hardly ever on here anymore due to life stuff. But, we do communicate outside the forum occassionally.
I was wondering about the RL reaper the other day and remember him saying something to the like a while back.
Hey, there's a salvage yard that gave me an offer of a j35a3 for $250, 30 day warranty. The kicker is that it's been sitting in the yard for 3 years without a hood. I told the rep on the phone i was going to call back in a few days to touch base as she told me they might pull it from the car to see if it turns over, and to clean it up. She stated there didn't appear to be any rust but obviously, she couldn't do a thorough check. The yard has a good rep (B&B Foreign Car Salvage, Kennedale, TX). I'm thinking as long as there's no internal rust, compression is good, and it turns over that it could work fine. I would try to talk them down to $100-150, but can I get some of yall expertise on this? Go for it, don't go for it? Thank you in advance.
Hey, there's a salvage yard that gave me an offer of a j35a3 for $250, 30 day warranty. The kicker is that it's been sitting in the yard for 3 years without a hood. I told the rep on the phone i was going to call back in a few days to touch base as she told me they might pull it from the car to see if it turns over, and to clean it up. She stated there didn't appear to be any rust but obviously, she couldn't do a thorough check. The yard has a good rep (B&B Foreign Car Salvage, Kennedale, TX). I'm thinking as long as there's no internal rust, compression is good, and it turns over that it could work fine. I would try to talk them down to $100-150, but can I get some of yall expertise on this? Go for it, don't go for it? Thank you in advance.
Even if it was inside, 3 years is a long time to be sitting. I would ask if it was drained of oil or still has oil in it. If it does, I would ask if they would be wiling to do an oil chg (before the compression test) if you bring down 5qts and a filter.
Realistically it seems like a long shot to get it for less. Fwiw, I paid $250 for one in Tucson last year. The place pulled it for me and loaded it to a trailer.
Even if it was inside, 3 years is a long time to be sitting. I would ask if it was drained of oil or still has oil in it. If it does, I would ask if they would be wiling to do an oil chg (before the compression test) if you bring down 5qts and a filter.
Realistically it seems like a long shot to get it for less. Fwiw, I paid $250 for one in Tucson last year. The place pulled it for me and loaded it to a trailer.
I see. Thank you for the quick response btw. I am pretty skeptical on it since, yea 3 years is a while, especially to go through the types of seasons it's been thru in North TX. Any other things I should ask of this yard in regards to this specific motor?
Hey, there's a salvage yard that gave me an offer of a j35a3 for $250, 30 day warranty. The kicker is that it's been sitting in the yard for 3 years without a hood.
They want to get it out the door ASAP since it's listed on car-part.com for $325.
I'd prob just buy the top ends from a salvage yard. may take looking at a few different cars, and beating others to the punch, but will definitely be less costly than all the work I read above.
The pick n pull I used has an app that features push notifications when a vehicle I have saved comes into the yards nearby.
Hey whitetiger, if i were to just grab the top ends, but minus the intake manifold, would that just be called the heads? After all this research, it sounds like this is the quickest and most cost efficient approach. I would just replace my heads with the replacements, correct? pull the engine from the car to extract the broken bolt, slap on the j37a4 manifold, and call it a day? (Any other outside advice on this route is more than welcomed as well)
I see. Thank you for the quick response btw. I am pretty skeptical on it since, yea 3 years is a while, especially to go through the types of seasons it's been thru in North TX. Any other things I should ask of this yard in regards to this specific motor?
I'd ask what all is included, bare block and heads or any accessories.
btw, are there any pull a part places in your area?
I'd ask what all is included, bare block and heads or any accessories.
btw, are there any pull a part places in your area?
I believe the entire motor is included but I will confirm with them tomorrow. I checked with another place and they had an MDX come in last month with 122k. Theyre asking for 400 - everything included. Yes, there is pick n pull in a few yards out here.
Going thru the checklist, I think I should just be getting a j32a2 replacement engine since if I were to get a j35a3, it seems like I need to get an extensive list of parts replaced: water pump, thermostat, oil pump, starter, alternator, spark plugs, ignition coils, fuel injectors, timing belt + tensioner, plus all of the gaskets and seals replaced. So this would turn into a 1k-1.5k necessary project. I want the engine to run smooth and last me AT LEAST another 150k, but I also have done a lot of work (check pics) to my j32a2 engine, so I would be able to just swap over my j32 parts of my old engine to the replacement. Does this sound right?
Going thru the checklist, I think I should just be getting a j32a2 replacement engine since if I were to get a j35a3, it seems like I need to get an extensive list of parts replaced: water pump, thermostat, oil pump, starter, alternator, spark plugs, ignition coils, fuel injectors, timing belt + tensioner, plus all of the gaskets and seals replaced. So this would turn into a 1k-1.5k necessary project. I want the engine to run smooth and last me AT LEAST another 150k, but I also have done a lot of work (check pics) to my j32a2 engine, so I would be able to just swap over my j32 parts of my old engine to the replacement. Does this sound right?
Not sure where you got the impression you have to replace all that. Timing belt and tb tensioner are interchangeable. I use p2r's manual tensioner.
Water pump and thermostat are good to replace for peace of mind. Just bear in mind aftermarket thermostat seals are almost never right.
Injectors shouldn't be touched unless you have replacements on hand. The tips tend to disintegrate.
Oil pump is not necessarily required to be changed. Although, its not a bad idea to reseal it.
Coils are the same. Plugs might be a different heat range, go with the CLS ones.
Swap over your alt and ac comp, ps pump, belts and drive it.
Not sure where you got the impression you have to replace all that. Timing belt and tb tensioner are interchangeable. I use p2r's manual tensioner.
Water pump and thermostat are good to replace for peace of mind. Just bear in mind aftermarket thermostat seals are almost never right.
Injectors shouldn't be touched unless you have replacements on hand. The tips tend to disintegrate.
Oil pump is not necessarily required to be changed. Although, its not a bad idea to reseal it.
Coils are the same. Plugs might be a different heat range, go with the CLS ones.
Swap over your alt and ac comp, ps pump, belts and drive it.
ChatGPT and google lol. said to replace just to be sure but noted, I will listen to your advice. I am just wary since there's a 50/50 chance I pick up the 3 year old engine off the salvage yard -- I'm waiting on them to lmk if the engine turns over, and to confirm that there is no rust. Can i use the thermostat and water pump from my j32? Noted on the aftermarket seals -- will use the j32 one(s) if its interchangeable.
Can i use the thermostat and water pump from my j32? Noted on the aftermarket seals -- will use the j32 one(s) if its interchangeable.
Yes, the thermostat and water pump are interchangeable.
Just to clarify the crank, rods, pistons, cams and intake valve springs are the major differences between j35a3/4 and j32a2. There is also a difference with the water pipe that runs from the water pump to the heater hoses. You'll want to use the j32a2 pipe. New seals for that pipe would be a good idea too.
GL
Yes, the thermostat and water pump are interchangeable.
Just to clarify the crank, rods, pistons, cams and intake valve springs are the major differences between j35a3/4 and j32a2. There is also a difference with the water pipe that runs from the water pump to the heater hoses. You'll want to use the j32a2 pipe. New seals for that pipe would be a good idea too.
GL
Got it. I will be sure to swap the water pipe pump to the heater hoses and get a new seal for the pipe. as fa ras spark plugs, Im gonna go with NGK 4095. Thank you sir
Just an update. So I passed on the $250 j35a3 bc they pointed out that there was another stock number written on it from another salvage yard meaning the engine was swapped out before making it to their yard so I didn’t wanna take that gamble. There was another shop that had it for $400 122k mi but im kinda skeptical of shops that post on car-part.com with an x as a part grade. Man sounded genuine over the phone but i don’t have the money buy the engine and transport it to my place. The other place sold the engine before I could get it so here I am rebuilding my j32a2 for now while I wait for a j35a3 to pop up on the market. Here are pics of the heads:
both sides looked like this. Under the valve cover looked good and both gaskets looked new (replaced August 2022).
here’s a pic of the pistons. They don’t look damaged from the timing belt coming loose so I don’t think any valves hit them but maybe someone can give me a diagnosis on what they see. It just looks like carbon build up to me. If someone can give me tips on how to clean those up, I’d appreciate it. (Head gaskets done August 2022)
additionally: am I missing 2 bolts that go into this thing? (Ignore the red silicone)
notes:
water pump had some orange sludge (coolant oil mix??)
oil was leaking on the rear side and from what looked like the oil pump.
I should have taken pics but I was in the moment and decided to clean it up right then and there.
^
Yes, there should be two bolts, shown below, that hold that camshaft thrust cover to the head. Though I suppose, it's possible the head bolt bosses could be stripped to explain why they are missing & the cam thrust cover is 'glued' on with RTV??
Not sure, though, it appears the carbon in the areas of the piston below appear to be suspect for possible valve contact??? Do you have close-up pictures of the valve side of the heads, versus the rocker / cam side provided above, to see if any valves look as if they had piston contact occur??
^
Yes, there should be two bolts, shown below, that hold that camshaft thrust cover to the head. Though I suppose, it's possible the head bolt bosses could be stripped to explain why they are missing & the cam thrust cover is 'glued' on with RTV??
Not sure, though, it appears the carbon in the areas of the piston below appear to be suspect for possible valve contact??? Do you have close-up pictures of the valve side of the heads, versus the rocker / cam side provided above, to see if any valves look as if they had piston contact occur??
yup I figured the camshaft thrust part this AM. Going to order a new assembly and the bolts off acurapartswarehouse.com — before I do, would I be able to reuse my felpro head gaskets if they’re 2 years old? They’re not busted. I was going to hit Autozone and pick up a can of hi temp copper spray to coat it.
I will upload pics of the bottom side of the heads later today. Also will try to get clear pic from the intake view as well. They didn’t look bent when I shined a light to them a couple days ago but maybe yall would know more.
