I noticed that I am leaving a small amount of oil (5-6 drops minimum per night) on the floor of the garage. I confirmed with some cardboard that it was in fact oil and coming from my car.

I looked under the car today and saw NO oil coming from the filter, drain plug, or anything around the valve cover. I did see oil sludge (mixed with dust/dirt I guess) near the passenger side of the oil pan where the bolts are. There was also some traces of oil (or so it seemed) near the crankshaft pulley. The only sludgey oil was at or below the oil pan gasket. The shimmer on the block near the crankshaft pulley looked different and might not have even been oil -- it was impossible to tell as there was zero room to look.

Since dropping the oil pan involves jacking up the engine (seriously, WTF!) and a LOT of work, and is a very messy and time-consuming job to do just on speculation that the gasket is leaking, what should I check next?

My next thought was that the front seal (crankshaft seal) was leaking behind the crankshaft pulley (Unorthodox Racing pulley installed April 26, 2008). But, upon checking the Helm's and checking an online parts ordering place (acuraoemparts.com), neither even mention a seal in this area. The parts ordering palce (http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no) doesn't list anything behind the crankshaft pulley at all.

Is there even a seal here that is potentially leaking, or, would pulling the crankshaft pulley off and inspecting be basically wasting time?

Where else can I look for this leak?

Thanks,
Eric

 

I would do more external investigation before you start taking anything apart. Clean up the under side of the engine as best you can and take another look in a few days. Maybe wipe it down again when you park the car for the day and then take a look in the morning. Also, make sure it is indeed engine oil and not power steering fluid or clutch fluid or something.

An idea just occurred to me (while looking at my desk). Maybe you could stick post it notes on various suspect areas and let the car sit over night. It should be obvious in the morning if oil was coming from one of those areas.

 

I think I'll have more time this weekend to investigate. Degreasing the area is a good idea - thanks. I'll degrease, drive it around a bit, let it sit overnight, and then look around.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it's something under the timing chain cover (front seal, which I found is item #6 here: http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no , or possibly an o-ring for one of the sensors under there.)

 

There is a seal at the bottom of the timing cover that seals against the snout of the crankshaft pulley. Not super common, but I have seen them leak.

#6 here... http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

 

That's the front seal that I found in the post immediately before yours. Thanks though.

Are they difficult to replace once the chain cover is off? Or can it easily be done without a shop press and/or the special pressing tool?

 

BTW there is no oil pan "gasket" per se. It's glued on with liquid sealer. Usually they only leak right off the bat if not installed/sealed properly. Don't think I've seen one yet that started leaking from age/mileage.

 

I have received conflicting answers to this question so maybe you can clear it up poltergeist, is our timing chain a wet or dry chain? I've never seen a chain of that type be a dry chain but a couple people have claimed that it is.

 

It just taps into the bore in the timing cover. No press needed. I think there's a special driver tool to keep from driving it in too far, but with care (and the right sized socket/driver etc) you should be able to replace it yourself. Just make sure you have the oil pump drive aligned before re-installing the pulley.

BTW you don't have to remove the timing cover to replace the seal, just the pulley.

 

The chain runs in engine oil. The timing cover is sealed to the block with liquid sealer. The pulley seal seals oil behind the pulley.

 

Hrmm, looking at the diagram, I wonder if this seal can be replaced without taking off the entire chain cover (lots of PITA bolts and also the engine mount which I don't like doing).

If I can get the old one out (assuming its the problem here), pressing the new one in shouldn't be too bad, correct? There is a decent amount of room to work in that area once the wheel is off the car and the splash guard removed. Installing the UR pulley was pretty easy in that area if I recall correctly.

 

You edited it while I was replying, answering my question. LOL. Thanks!

 

One thing I'd be concerned with....of what material is the aftermarket pulley made? It's possible (if the material is not hard enough) that the seal has cut a groove in the sealing surface of the pulley. Used to be very common with small block Chevy engines and their harmonic balancer/crankshaft pulley.

 

It's aluminum, but I've never heard of any other people running underdrive pulleys in RSX's or TSX's (same pulley set), having this problem. Interesting to note though, thanks.

 

Curls:

I know that you had engine work done on your car in the past. How much time has transpired between the time the engine work was performed and when you started noticing the leak?

Is is possible that you could have been having the leak before you noticed it recently?

 

It's been about 3 years or so, and approx 50,000km, since the engine was replaced.

I think it probably started leaking very very slowly about 3-4 weeks ago, max. I park in the same spot in my garage every night and the floor definitely didn't have a dark spot like it does now.

 

Curls:

I did not realize that you have to lift engine to lower the oil pan on the TSX. You mean, you have to use an engine hoist like when you get a new engine?? Why would it be so difficult?

I have an 1995 Toyota Camry where my mechanic just changed the seal on the oil pan. It was leaking oil. I would have left it dripping and once in a while add oil. But I had to change it because the oil was hitting the exhaust manifold and smoking the whole engine bay.

But it was relatively simple process of dropping the oil pan, change the gasket, and put oil pan back on.

Don't understand why it is so difficult on TSX but it is good to know for future. Eventually, if i put enough miles on car, that oil pan gasket is going to leak. Good Luck in finding the cause and keep us informed.

 

The oil pan is too close to the sub-frame rail to allow it to come off. You can either raise the engine or lower the subframe. As mentioned above, the oil pans on K-Series engines is glued on with liquid sealer when the engine is assembled (as is the lower half of the engine block, just above the oil pan). I doubt you'll ever see it leak in normal service if it's not disturbed. I've seen a lot of K-Series engines in Honda's since they started using them ('02 Civic Si I think) and I've never seen one with a leak between the oil pan and lower engine block.

 

Yeah it's a PITA to drop the pan in the K-series. I changed the oil pan in my wife's Protege5 in under an hour and taking my time. For the TSX, there is no physical way to get at about 5 or 6 of the bolts without raising the engine or lowering the subframe.

 

Does anyone know if a disconnected breather tube (from valve cover to air intake tube) would cause some weird crankcase pressures, resulting in oil being blown through a seal or seal(s)?

The reason I ask is because on Wednesday, I wiped off the entire subframe that had oil drops on it (thats where it was dripping from, but obviously not the source). So the oil that might have been pooled on top of it was seemingly gone. I also torqued the accessible oil pan bolts, but none seemed to need any torquing so that's reassuring. I then ran the car for 10-15 minutes and shut it off, and the next day, saw NO oil drops on the cardboard. So either the oil I wiped from the subframe was the actual soruce (say from my last oil change in November -- they're messy!), or, the fact that I also reconnected the breather tube caused the pressures to get back to their normals, caused the oil not to be sent out the front main seal anymore (assuming thats where it was coming from).

Does this make sense? Would the disconnected breather tube really cause that kinf of pressure/vacuum difference and cause the oil leak? And fixing the tube stop the oil leak?

I hope so!

 

I think it's more likely the oil was actually coming from the tube itself.

 

100% not likely. Wrong side of the engine, and, the tube was clean. Plus I believe that air breather tube is an intake tube, it's the other one (the PCV valve one) that spits out gases back into the manifold.

 

Ah, I thought you were talking about the PCV one. Where does this other tube connect to?

 

I had the Crankshaft Seal replaced last March on my '04. My mechanic noticed something on a regular oil change, he couldn't find out for sure where it was coming from but he figured the most likely culprit was the crankshaft and one thing that made it hard to diagnose exactly where it was coming from was the possibility of oil being thrown a little bit.

I apologise profusely for not remembering many details, but it was last summer and the work was done at the dealership as it was still under warranty. But something that rings a bell is your difficulty finding info on the crankshaft seal, I vaguely remember the service attendant at the dealershp mentioning something about parts not being correctly listed, or not mentioned at all in regards to the crankshaft seal.

I hope this sheds at least SOME light on your situation. If you want to know more feel free to ask and I'd be more than happy to call the dealership I had the work done at.

 

Sounds highly unlikely.

 

I think it was oil pooled on the subframe from your oil filter changeout. If you don't wipe the subframe of oil, you can get droplets going everywhere when you drive.

 

Come to think of it, I don't think this is the reason. Why? Because I was low on oil (about 1/2 L or a tad more), and if it was from the filter changeout, it would have been 'old' oil, not oil I put in after the new filter was on.

I'm going to find my service records from the new shortblock and see what the part number of the crankshaft seal was, if it's listed, and look into the order time to get a new one. Just in case I find out that's the culprit.

Poltergeist: Is it easy enough to swap in a new seal with the chain case still in place? How easy is it to remove the old one and put in the new one without damaging it or the crankshaft? Any specific tools to do that (aside from the seal insertion tool from Honda)? What would you use to remove it? And will oil spill out when I change this out or can I change it without worrying about making a massive Valdez on my garage floor? LOL.

 

I don't recall losing any oil when changing one. Pretty sure the oil level with the engine off is below the snout of the crankshaft. You just need a socket/driver/pipe etc that is larger I.D than the crankshaft snout and slightly smaller OD than the seal bore in the timing cover. Biggest thing to note carefully is how far the original seal is tapped into the bore, as there's no shoulder/stop etc in the timing cover to keep you from driving the seal in too far. First one I did I drove the seal in too far and had to pry it out, which damaged it in the process. The old seal should pry out easily with a small screwdriver etc. Been I while since I've done one, but that's what I recall.

 

Cool. I don't remember where I read it (might have been here), but a trip to the hardware store for the right sized washer should make a good makeshift seal install tool.

I'll monitor this for the next while and see what happens. As of tonight, still no oil on the cardboard or elsewhere for that matter. Weird.

 

Steel pipe nipples wrapped in electrical tape make good seal drivers and they come in lots of sizes for just a couple bucks.

 

If the old seal is not damaged during the removal, I usually just use the old seal to drive the new one in as it's the perfect size. I keep old seals around simply for that purpose.

 

I have an 05 RL and the dealer thought the rear main seal was leaking. When they went to replace it, they determined the small block was porous and leaking the oil. Acura changed the small block under warranty. The dealer said it was extremely uncommon, but not unheard of. I don't know where it was actually coming through.

 

^^ That's strange.

Since my last post there hasn't been a drop of oil in my garage. I think it was spillage from the filter removal on my last oil change that finally trickled down and off of the crossmember.

 

Curls:

That is great that you have no more oil spills.